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RE: Operation Thrym

 
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RE: Operation Thrym - 6/3/2013 6:17:37 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

JocMeister,

You have 5,000 AV sitting around "guarding" stuff in Burma. Why isn't it pressing forward along suppliable axes making progress and, at the least, grinding IJA formations down - drawing replacements away from other fronts? That 5,000 AV could be doing a LOT of good instead of just wasting supplies there.


Hi Nemo. Thanks for dropping in!

I have tried to put as much pressure as I can on Erik in Burma but have failed quite badly Im afraid. Only positive things is that all his unrestricted IDs except one (22nd ID is last seen at Soerabaja) is in Burma. Im doing my best right now to keep it so. Probably failing quite badly though as he has started moving troops south towards Bangkok the last few days.

Erik has something like 5-8000 AV in the Rangoon area. The reason for the 3k AV at Prome is simply that I fear a counter attack cutting supply off from Ramree Island and giving away the 200k supply I have there while my main force is moving East. The 3 AV is mostly Chinese and some very beat up Indian IDs. Its also some very beat up armor units in the mix.

The 2000AV in central Burma is actually not that impressive. Its 1 Chinese Corps resting up from earlier battles and another one recently flown out from China that needs to be filled out. There are also some Brit BDEs healing up from an earlier battle.

Right now Im simply moving East with some of the best allied AV I have in Burma. Its about 6300 AV including some US and OZ IDs and whatever armour that has recovered from the latest battle. Im trying to stop Erik from sending troops south and to the PI by making his MLR a lot longer.

My last plan (before this one) was to start causing some damage to his troops but Im simply not causing enough damage for it to seem worthwhile while completely wrecking my own troops.

This was the last attempt.

quote:

Ground combat at 55,51 (near Prome)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 282214 troops, 4477 guns, 4529 vehicles, Assault Value = 11587

Defending force 111438 troops, 1431 guns, 2168 vehicles, Assault Value = 3960

Allied adjusted assault: 4290

Japanese adjusted defense: 7945

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
10046 casualties reported
Squads: 253 destroyed, 481 disabled
Non Combat: 12 destroyed, 276 disabled
Engineers: 16 destroyed, 56 disabled
Guns lost 237 (50 destroyed, 187 disabled)
Vehicles lost 222 (55 destroyed, 167 disabled)



Allied ground losses:
17545 casualties reported
Squads: 149 destroyed, 2165 disabled
Non Combat: 58 destroyed, 242 disabled
Engineers: 78 destroyed, 607 disabled
Guns lost 234 (16 destroyed, 218 disabled)
Vehicles lost 441 (134 destroyed, 307 disabled)


The following turn Erik had an additional 80.000 troops in the hex and mine were spent. I have also tried some bombardment that accomplished almost nothing.

Im definitely open to any advice and would love some help! Im at a loss what to do here and is mainly just trying out whatever I can think of.


< Message edited by JocMeister -- 6/3/2013 6:18:00 PM >

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 1201
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/3/2013 6:30:20 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 5274
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Keep up the good work. Glad to see that your happy with the game. Start pounding on him in Burma make him use supplies both their and HI.


Hey! Welcome back from the vacation. Hope is was a good one!

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
That sigint on the tank regiment could mean he is trying to bring out fragments to rebuild the units. I'm sure he knows that he will not be able to move out the whole 50K. I presume he cannot reach the cut-off troops by Emily or Mavis?


I think he can still airlift some out but I havnt seen the numbers drop in a while. He can definitely not ship them out from Truk once he dumps them there. So I fail to see why he is picking stuff up that cant be airlifted and dropping them there. Very strange or Im really missing something!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I have to second what Nemo said. In the flow here it will get quickly forgotten in the midst of "blow stuff up!" posts, but I urge you to take some time and think about what he said. In 1944-45 the Allied player simply must become aware of the Japanese economy and its pressure points. You have the OOB to win; now you have to grind the life out of him.

ONE armament point costs him 6 HI points--a good piece of a fighter plane. To replace one squad lost costs him 1 armament point plus Manpower. Destroyed guns are even more expensive; they're the load cost in arms points and Manpower points. So grinding on him in Burma, and in China where you can (Chinese infantry, with supply, can really eat up Japanese squads in 1944), has more far-reaching consequences than just local AV effects. You're destroying his ability to make air defense at home, to force him to slow down his Home Island defense prep to pay pilot taxes. To really have to allocate his fuel to keep the HI points flowing as he must make more and more armament and vehicle points or see his front-line units hollowed out.

Burma's job in the game can be what it was in RL. A bleeder. The war wasn't won in Burma, but the investments Japan made there cost them a lot. Grind him down. You'll be happy you did once you're at the doorstep of Honshu.


Well, China is pretty much out of the war until I can get supply in. Thats probably not going to happen in this game though. Not unless the Soviet can smash their way in before the game is up!

As I replied to Nemo Ill take any advice I can get on causing him some damage in Burma. I think I have soon tried everything that have come to my mind! But first I need to do whatever I can to stop the tide of troops going south towards Bangkok. I hope an easterly move can cause Erik to divert at least some of them NE instead of south. I dont want all those troops in the PI! Whatever the cost!

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 6/3/2013 6:31:13 PM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1202
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/3/2013 7:44:23 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8790
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

JocMeister,

You have 5,000 AV sitting around "guarding" stuff in Burma. Why isn't it pressing forward along suppliable axes making progress and, at the least, grinding IJA formations down - drawing replacements away from other fronts? That 5,000 AV could be doing a LOT of good instead of just wasting supplies there.


Hi Nemo. Thanks for dropping in!

I have tried to put as much pressure as I can on Erik in Burma but have failed quite badly Im afraid. Only positive things is that all his unrestricted IDs except one (22nd ID is last seen at Soerabaja) is in Burma. Im doing my best right now to keep it so. Probably failing quite badly though as he has started moving troops south towards Bangkok the last few days.

Erik has something like 5-8000 AV in the Rangoon area. The reason for the 3k AV at Prome is simply that I fear a counter attack cutting supply off from Ramree Island and giving away the 200k supply I have there while my main force is moving East. The 3 AV is mostly Chinese and some very beat up Indian IDs. Its also some very beat up armor units in the mix.

The 2000AV in central Burma is actually not that impressive. Its 1 Chinese Corps resting up from earlier battles and another one recently flown out from China that needs to be filled out. There are also some Brit BDEs healing up from an earlier battle.

Right now Im simply moving East with some of the best allied AV I have in Burma. Its about 6300 AV including some US and OZ IDs and whatever armour that has recovered from the latest battle. Im trying to stop Erik from sending troops south and to the PI by making his MLR a lot longer.

My last plan (before this one) was to start causing some damage to his troops but Im simply not causing enough damage for it to seem worthwhile while completely wrecking my own troops.

This was the last attempt.

quote:

Ground combat at 55,51 (near Prome)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 282214 troops, 4477 guns, 4529 vehicles, Assault Value = 11587

Defending force 111438 troops, 1431 guns, 2168 vehicles, Assault Value = 3960

Allied adjusted assault: 4290

Japanese adjusted defense: 7945

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
10046 casualties reported
Squads: 253 destroyed, 481 disabled
Non Combat: 12 destroyed, 276 disabled
Engineers: 16 destroyed, 56 disabled
Guns lost 237 (50 destroyed, 187 disabled)
Vehicles lost 222 (55 destroyed, 167 disabled)



Allied ground losses:
17545 casualties reported
Squads: 149 destroyed, 2165 disabled
Non Combat: 58 destroyed, 242 disabled
Engineers: 78 destroyed, 607 disabled
Guns lost 234 (16 destroyed, 218 disabled)
Vehicles lost 441 (134 destroyed, 307 disabled)


The following turn Erik had an additional 80.000 troops in the hex and mine were spent. I have also tried some bombardment that accomplished almost nothing.

Im definitely open to any advice and would love some help! Im at a loss what to do here and is mainly just trying out whatever I can think of.



You've got 4500 arty tubes there and twice as many much better tnaks. Bombard him for two weeks and see what you get. Rest your infantry. Every squad you kill with arty counts the same. After the attack you showed he had 800 disabled squads. I might have attacked the next day with arty and tanks alone and finished some off.

The routing routines in the game hammer the guy who breaks and runs first. Prep him, then attack. If he retreats you'll get your infantry KIAs on the run.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 6/3/2013 7:47:31 PM >


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The Moose

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Post #: 1203
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/3/2013 8:04:51 PM   
JocMeister

 

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I tried some bombardments too. Didnt seem to work very well. I inflicted about the same casualties I took but after the first salvo disruption was up through the roof on my arty units (70+). Follow up bombardment caused me a lot more losses while almost none to him. Took about 2 weeks to get the disruption down. Didnt feel productive as his units surely had recovered suffered disabledments by then? I should also mention that pretty much all my tanks and combat engineers are still out of action after the deliberate attack 40-50 days ago.

I dont know much at all about land warfare. Perhaps I gave up too quickly? Ill admit I started panicking a bit when I see all the troops heading towards Bangkok. I fear Erik has realized he doesnt need that much AV in Burma. With forts and terrain he can stall me with a lot less than he currently has. So now Im just trying to make a ruckus and see if I can change his mind. Im figuring he would want more troops covering 5-8 hexes then he does covering 2 hexes.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 1204
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/3/2013 9:17:45 PM   
DOCUP


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If he pulls troops out of Burma and moves them out.  Flank him.  Make him move his troops to cover more hexs than he has troops for or just or just wear him down in one spot.  You will take losses but he will have to bring in more troops from another base weaking it. 

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1205
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/3/2013 10:09:09 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8790
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I tried some bombardments too. Didnt seem to work very well. I inflicted about the same casualties I took but after the first salvo disruption was up through the roof on my arty units (70+). Follow up bombardment caused me a lot more losses while almost none to him. Took about 2 weeks to get the disruption down. Didnt feel productive as his units surely had recovered suffered disabledments by then? I should also mention that pretty much all my tanks and combat engineers are still out of action after the deliberate attack 40-50 days ago.

I dont know much at all about land warfare. Perhaps I gave up too quickly? Ill admit I started panicking a bit when I see all the troops heading towards Bangkok. I fear Erik has realized he doesnt need that much AV in Burma. With forts and terrain he can stall me with a lot less than he currently has. So now Im just trying to make a ruckus and see if I can change his mind. Im figuring he would want more troops covering 5-8 hexes then he does covering 2 hexes.


I guess without a map it's hard to tell, but if you have 5000 total AV in Burma move it to supply, fix it, then work it. At this point you don't care about holding ground there. You are mobile. If he wants to go deep into northern Burma and take bases, so what? What does he do with that? If your LCUs are pounded, move them to where they can fix themselves! Don't let them sit broken for weeks and months. If that's Chittagong it's Chittagong. Your armor especially should be able to eat him alive now. He has few good anti-hard weapons. Same with your arty. Look at you arty LCUs worldwide; you have none sitting unused somewhere? Use the off-map to get it through Aden and into the theater.

If he's leaving 3:1 it's because of supply. IOW, he hasn't got any. Make it worse.

I know Burma is "boring" to you, but you can really make your life easier elsewhere if you work the problem. Get your tanks loose in Indo-China and they are fearsome. I've done it playing the AI. Coming down the west coast aiming at Saigon is a beautiful thing. You have the forces to make Bangkok immaterial if you stop dinking around in the jungle and get moving.

_____________________________

The Moose

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Post #: 1206
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/4/2013 7:54:58 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
I guess without a map it's hard to tell, but if you have 5000 total AV in Burma move it to supply, fix it, then work it. At this point you don't care about holding ground there. You are mobile. If he wants to go deep into northern Burma and take bases, so what? What does he do with that? If your LCUs are pounded, move them to where they can fix themselves! Don't let them sit broken for weeks and months. If that's Chittagong it's Chittagong. Your armor especially should be able to eat him alive now. He has few good anti-hard weapons. Same with your arty. Look at you arty LCUs worldwide; you have none sitting unused somewhere? Use the off-map to get it through Aden and into the theater.

If he's leaving 3:1 it's because of supply. IOW, he hasn't got any. Make it worse.

I know Burma is "boring" to you, but you can really make your life easier elsewhere if you work the problem. Get your tanks loose in Indo-China and they are fearsome. I've done it playing the AI. Coming down the west coast aiming at Saigon is a beautiful thing. You have the forces to make Bangkok immaterial if you stop dinking around in the jungle and get moving.


Ill try to get a good map up over the weekend.

I dont mind losing bases in Burma with two exceptions. Ramree and Prome. Those are absolutely vital to supply. I have 200.000 supply at Prome together with a massive amount of support. Yet they recover very slowly.

I heard my armor was going to be a killer but havnt seen that yet! They took a horrible beating in the last major attack costing me some 140 destroyed tanks. Still recovering from that. Some of it are starting to get back in shape. About the arty I have combed through the Indian continent buying out everything I can! I think the problem is that he is simply too dug in at the 55,51 hex.

I am trying to move! I go east as we speak with 6000 of my best AV including all combat worthy tanks. Ill get that map up tomorrow!

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 6/4/2013 7:55:29 PM >

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 1207
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/4/2013 8:19:25 PM   
JocMeister

 

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13th-15th July -44

While there were almost no combat there were still some important events.

Burma
Erik quickly discovered I have moved a lot of stuff out from 55,51. He launched a bombardment for recon purposes I assume.

quote:

Ground combat at 55,51 (near Prome)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 117157 troops, 1655 guns, 2588 vehicles, Assault Value = 4295

Defending force 124144 troops, 1626 guns, 1089 vehicles, Assault Value = 4752

Japanese ground losses:
287 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 22 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 9 (1 destroyed, 8 disabled)
Vehicles lost 5 (2 destroyed, 3 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
407 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 41 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Guns lost 15 (1 destroyed, 14 disabled)
Vehicles lost 11 (5 destroyed, 6 disabled)


He can keep this up for as long as he wants for all I care. I have 5000 Chinese squads to burn through! Question is what he will do now...He will surely depart with much of his troops leaving perhaps 2-3000AV. Question is where he will move...

OZ
Im continuing to secure the small bases in Northern OZ.

Marianas
Erik continues to bombard Tinian by sea and air. Runway still has 0 damage. I placed a CAT squadron at Tinian giving me excellent Nav search.

Thrym
After Waigeo fell I quickly sent in a crapload of Engineers. They are safely in place now and the AF is already at level 2 and will hit level 3 tomorrow. No opposition.

I also seized the opportunity to land at Morotai when KB is out of position. Things went smooth and Morotai will be in allied hands next turn!!!

quote:

Ground combat at Morotai (80,101)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 3815 troops, 16 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 146

Defending force 15643 troops, 166 guns, 495 vehicles, Assault Value = 699

Japanese ground losses:
92 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Assaulting units:
10th Ind.Infantry Brigade
51st JNAF AF Unit


Defending units:
1st Marine Division
II Aus Corps Engineer Battalion
706th Tank Battalion
632nd Tank Destroyer Battalion
711th Tank Bn /2
XI US Corps /1


This was the first landing of Phase 3 and Im very happy to secure it without a fight. With a base in the Moluccas Manado and Talaud-eilanden are within reach. I have to be a bit careful though. Im pretty sure Erik is trying to be sneaky. More on that in the next post.

First attack at Sorong will be in 2-3 days. While not critical it would help to have it quickly. I also ordered a deliberate attack on Noemfoor next turn. If successful it will complete phase 1. A naval bombardment went in last turn and 4Es will follow up tomorrow.

quote:

Night Naval bombardment of Noemfoor at 86,110

Allied Ships
BB California
BB Arizona
BB Nevada
BB Maryland
DD Stevens
DD Stembel
DD Sproston
DD Sigsbee
DD Sigourney
DD Norman Scott
DD John Rodgers
DD Remey


Japanese ground losses:
660 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 17 destroyed, 46 disabled
Engineers: 8 destroyed, 13 disabled
Guns lost 4 (2 destroyed, 2 disabled)


All in all Im pretty pleased with the last turns. I think Erik wasnt anticipating a swift move on Morotai and this caught him a bit off guard. I will try and keep up the pressure without being reckless.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1208
Morotai Invaded! - 6/4/2013 8:29:14 PM   
JocMeister

 

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KB

Erik has lingered with what appears to be the KB outside the Marianas. Im 99% sure this is a feint and is probably his slow CVEs/CVLs. He has been hanging around with that TF for 3 turns now in plane view in an empty spot of ocean. The only reason for doing so is that he wants me to see it and believe its the KB.

That means he is coming for me! So Ill get ready for him. First I need to cover the amphibs until they are in safe waters. Then I need to top of fuel, replenish lost AC and Im all ready!

Also got a lot of Signal traffic from Cebu last turn.

quote:

Heavy Volume of Radio transmissions detected at Cebu (80,86)


I sent a long range recon there this turn. Lets see if its the KBs new lair!




Attachment (1)

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1209
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/4/2013 10:39:12 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Ill try to get a good map up over the weekend.

Would help.

I dont mind losing bases in Burma with two exceptions. Ramree and Prome. Those are absolutely vital to supply. I have 200.000 supply at Prome together with a massive amount of support. Yet they recover very slowly.

When you take Bangkok Ramree I. won't amount to a hill of beans. Think bigger!

I heard my armor was going to be a killer but havnt seen that yet! They took a horrible beating in the last major attack costing me some 140 destroyed tanks.

What was the terrain? Did you shock? Check your leaders. Terrain is why I say get them down into Indo-China. You can get behind him and own the hexsides. Make him rout into that and the whole stack goes "poof."

Still recovering from that. Some of it are starting to get back in shape.

Use your stockpile switches in the pool and turn off replacements interactively if need be. One lesson from my first campaign game, given me by one of the devs when one of my USMC divisions wouldn't refill. Many base forces have substantial infantry squads in them, some 80 or so. If you turn them off and feed only the core divisions they fill in a lot faster. Might not work with tanks themselves, but will with their side-dishes like Support.

About the arty I have combed through the Indian continent buying out everything I can! I think the problem is that he is simply too dug in at the 55,51 hex.

Arty in CONUS? OZ? Sitting on by-passed islands? You are the mobility king from now on. You have the navy and the Liberty ships. Wherever it is get it where it needs to be. It's a game about logistics.

Even if he's dug in you take small bites every salvo. You eat supply. You eat morale. It all contributes. It's not just big bombing raids and then go bash on prepared positions. Also maneuver. Don't forget maneuver. If he wants to dig in get behind him and see if he still likes it. It doesn't have to be one hex behind him either. Put him on an island.

I am trying to move! I go east as we speak with 6000 of my best AV including all combat worthy tanks. Ill get that map up tomorrow!



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The Moose

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RE: Operation Thrym - 6/4/2013 10:43:38 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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I see 29 subs sititng still around the Moluccas. Imagine if the KB had to worry about them near your Prime Target (Guam.) Imagine if a couple got some fish in a fat carrier's hull. Imagine.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 6/4/2013 10:45:46 PM >


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The Moose

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RE: Operation Thrym - 6/4/2013 10:54:21 PM   
ny59giants


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Jocke - Are you playing with the latest Beta or the last official patch?? On your next turn while doing orders, hit the "P" button to bring up Preferences. In the middle section, in the left column, at the bottom should be a choice (made by the Japanese player) to have obsolete devices auto upgrade. This will allow engineers and infantry devices to steadily upgrade to the next version 6 months after they end production. In my game, I will hit August '43 next turn and then lots of Allied infantry and engineers with '41/42 versions will become '43 versions (many came out in Feb '43). Double check this to help you out.

_____________________________


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RE: Operation Thrym - 6/5/2013 2:10:56 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Burma

As promised here is a screen of the Burma situation!




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RE: Operation Thrym - 6/5/2013 2:16:08 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I see 29 subs sititng still around the Moluccas. Imagine if the KB had to worry about them near your Prime Target (Guam.) Imagine if a couple got some fish in a fat carrier's hull. Imagine.


They are actually the last operational US subs I have. Cant have them within his LBA as they just get sunk.

Good news though is that I strongly suspect KB is actually around Mindanao and is looking for a fight (post #1209). I have almost no hope of hitting any of his CVs. But any damaged CV will be in dire straits! Quite literally

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 1214
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/5/2013 2:20:29 PM   
JocMeister

 

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From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Jocke - Are you playing with the latest Beta or the last official patch?? On your next turn while doing orders, hit the "P" button to bring up Preferences. In the middle section, in the left column, at the bottom should be a choice (made by the Japanese player) to have obsolete devices auto upgrade. This will allow engineers and infantry devices to steadily upgrade to the next version 6 months after they end production. In my game, I will hit August '43 next turn and then lots of Allied infantry and engineers with '41/42 versions will become '43 versions (many came out in Feb '43). Double check this to help you out.


Hi Michael!

I checked it and its ON. I should have been clearer in my post. Im not suffering from an actual shortage of squads. Its just that its taking forever getting the disabled squads back. They are sitting at Prome with a command HQ and twice the needed support, 200k supply and its still taking forever.

British armor are really short though...not much to do about that.

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 1215
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/5/2013 2:52:50 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8790
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I see 29 subs sititng still around the Moluccas. Imagine if the KB had to worry about them near your Prime Target (Guam.) Imagine if a couple got some fish in a fat carrier's hull. Imagine.


They are actually the last operational US subs I have. Cant have them within his LBA as they just get sunk.

Good news though is that I strongly suspect KB is actually around Mindanao and is looking for a fight (post #1209). I have almost no hope of hitting any of his CVs. But any damaged CV will be in dire straits! Quite literally


You get over 200 subs in the game, so . . . wow. If you've lost the rest that is a Stalingrad of sub carnage.

Regardless, where they are now is geting you next to nothing. If you want to picket--and I don't believe in fixed checkerboard patterns like you have--you have lots of low-mix skimmers. Subs are premium assets. They can sink the largest warship in the game by themsleves.

If you fear LBA ASW put them farther out, in the gaps. Design patrol areas to reinforce each other. Keep them moving. It can work. You have an AS at Wake? If not, make Wake a forward base and reduce your cycle times.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 6/5/2013 3:12:30 PM >


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The Moose

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Post #: 1216
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/5/2013 3:11:34 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8790
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Burma

As promised here is a screen of the Burma situation!





Thanks for this. Couple of comments, but as always no observer has total knowledge of the situation.

1. Paoshan and Tsuyung--he has huge investments there for pretty much no gain in this era. Those bases produce nothing and by now you have easier ways into China than through the highest mountains in the world. He also has air defenses there. Why? I wouldn't do that. But as the old saying goes, when you catch your enemy making a mistake don't get in his way. Leave these two alone.

2. OTOH, Kunming is a fat, fat economic target. It's in easy range of bases you hold like Taung Gyi. Burn it down. Big HI generators there for one thing.

3. If he's using the railroads he's going in and out of strat mode on both ends. 1-3 days each time. Recon the rail heads and selectively bomb when you see the LCU count jump. Catch the LCUs moving between strat mode and you can get big kill rates.

4. Other than supporting itself and Bassein I don't see why you have the uber-investment at Prome. He clearly wants to keep Rangoon, for what I'm not sure except VPs. He isn't going to get the oil in the Mandalay group, so Rangoon is support becasue it needs support to support its own defense, and so forth to infinity. A defense at Prome to protect Ramree's front door I can see, but 200,000 men? Can't see that. If Prome has Forts 6 I'd pull a lot of that out and make it mobile. Bassein has the river shock rules to help, but it you abandoned it that wouldn't be the end of the world. He spreads his Rangoon stack out to take it, and then what?

5. Port Blair looks open. Could be just the map mechanics. But if it is open, or even if it isn't--take this base! It's defensible, it can quickly go to AF 6, and it opens up Tavoy. Moulmein, and Pegu to reduction by air. This is important because, as Mr. Mobility in 1944-45, you are going to want to land at Tavoy and mess up his whole day. The troops you pull out of Prome? Guess where they go? Drive north from Tavoy, take Rahaeng, and you begin to put a massive Japanese army "on an island"." Almost cut off from supply from Bangkok. Defending on three sides, with the sea at their backs. At that point knocking over Rangoon becomes feasible, or he leaves. That simple.

6. Port Blair also makes Rangoon harbor a death zone for supply TFs. He has ships sitting in Rangoon now. That should not be allowed with the air force you now possess.

7. Paratroops to help with the railroad problem?

8. Amphibious landings even farther south than Tavoy. Malaysia gets very narrow in the north. It can be cut, isolating Singers and threateneing Bangkok. It takes away the railroad in northern Malaysia and cuts the Magic Road from Singers to Korea for resources and oil.

9. Your green arrow, new Allied advance, is STILL through the jungle. Stop doing that! Roads and sea lift. Move, move, move! If you have sea control he HAS to walk. You don't. Taking Chinag Mai and the northern railhead has some limited utility, but it's a long way to Bangkok that route. Go at it from the west. Ride most of that way on comfy transport ships.

Anyway, some things to think about. You can grind, but you don't have to. Force him to hard decisions. Don't give him what he wants, which is you beating on fortified positions. Stick and move, stick and move.

And remember, this is 1942 Bullwinkle being envious of the assets you have to play with!

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 6/5/2013 3:18:28 PM >


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Post #: 1217
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/5/2013 3:30:23 PM   
Historiker


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Throw five divions onto Pegu. It is an open hex, it'll mess up his day.

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Post #: 1218
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/5/2013 4:40:01 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 7421
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
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Hey Joe,

Just want to confirm what the others are saying. Frontal attack vs Japan in Burma at this stage of the war are sort of wasteful. As you know the Commonwealth troops are getting stronger but the replacement rate for tanks and devices is so poor that attrition warfare is not the best way to go. You should by now have the sealift to go around him, and Burma can be a trap for the Japanese player for this reason.

It is unfortunate that you have most of your troops locked in central Burma where they cannot be pulled out for other uses too easily but that is the way it is.

Two ideas here. With Japanese control of China, why is Burma important to the Allies at all? Is there a place closer to Japan that you can take that will make his position in Burma impossible. I am thinking Sabang or some place nearer Singapore. Once I landed and secured Sabang, the Indian ocean was closed to Japanese shipping and the Japanese can't move enough supply overland. Has he a heavy defense of Siboret Island? Taking this island or one or two of its neighbors forces the Japanese player to disperse his air force to protect the oilfields.

Anyways, you should be getting strong enough by now to start thinking about going around the largest Japanese positions. Good luck.

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Post #: 1219
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/5/2013 6:42:59 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 5274
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Thanks for this. Couple of comments, but as always no observer has total knowledge of the situation.

1. Paoshan and Tsuyung--he has huge investments there for pretty much no gain in this era. Those bases produce nothing and by now you have easier ways into China than through the highest mountains in the world. He also has air defenses there. Why? I wouldn't do that. But as the old saying goes, when you catch your enemy making a mistake don't get in his way. Leave these two alone.

I think he is semi wary Ill try to get supply going to the Chinese basin where I have 30.000 Chinese AV and no supply. He cant move the troops into Burma without paying PP though.

2. OTOH, Kunming is a fat, fat economic target. It's in easy range of bases you hold like Taung Gyi. Burn it down. Big HI generators there for one thing.

Its already toast since a month or so! See, I listen!

3. If he's using the railroads he's going in and out of strat mode on both ends. 1-3 days each time. Recon the rail heads and selectively bomb when you see the LCU count jump. Catch the LCUs moving between strat mode and you can get big kill rates.

I managed to do it once and it yields spectacular results. But its risky since he puts up very heavy LRCAP.

4. Other than supporting itself and Bassein I don't see why you have the uber-investment at Prome. He clearly wants to keep Rangoon, for what I'm not sure except VPs. He isn't going to get the oil in the Mandalay group, so Rangoon is support becasue it needs support to support its own defense, and so forth to infinity. A defense at Prome to protect Ramree's front door I can see, but 200,000 men? Can't see that. If Prome has Forts 6 I'd pull a lot of that out and make it mobile. Bassein has the river shock rules to help, but it you abandoned it that wouldn't be the end of the world. He spreads his Rangoon stack out to take it, and then what?

I have 200.000 supply at Prome. I really dont want to give that away. And most of the supply in Central Burma goes via Ramree - Prome. Without Prome I would really struggle with supply. I have 4000 AV right now at the Hex south of Prome. But its 3 Chinese corps in there which accounts for roughly 2500 AV. The rest is beat up BDEs and some trashed Indian IDs.

5. Port Blair looks open. Could be just the map mechanics. But if it is open, or even if it isn't--take this base! It's defensible, it can quickly go to AF 6, and it opens up Tavoy. Moulmein, and Pegu to reduction by air. This is important because, as Mr. Mobility in 1944-45, you are going to want to land at Tavoy and mess up his whole day. The troops you pull out of Prome? Guess where they go? Drive north from Tavoy, take Rahaeng, and you begin to put a massive Japanese army "on an island"." Almost cut off from supply from Bangkok. Defending on three sides, with the sea at their backs. At that point knocking over Rangoon becomes feasible, or he leaves. That simple.

Its just unreconed. He has troops there. Tavoy is unfortunantelty too far south for me to properly cover. He has some 200 bombers in the area. Any landing would require CV support.

6. Port Blair also makes Rangoon harbor a death zone for supply TFs. He has ships sitting in Rangoon now. That should not be allowed with the air force you now possess.

Its a bunch of MTBs. I take out about 1-2 each day. Its hard to get AC to attack them.

7. Paratroops to help with the railroad problem?

No allowed per HR

8. Amphibious landings even farther south than Tavoy. Malaysia gets very narrow in the north. It can be cut, isolating Singers and threateneing Bangkok. It takes away the railroad in northern Malaysia and cuts the Magic Road from Singers to Korea for resources and oil.

I completely agree. And I have considered it. But this requires CV support. I decided that my "Mindanao before 45" will get the CVs. So any landings in the rear is out the window until probably mid to late 45. By which time I strongly suspect Burma will be a backwater.

9. Your green arrow, new Allied advance, is STILL through the jungle. Stop doing that! Roads and sea lift. Move, move, move! If you have sea control he HAS to walk. You don't. Taking Chinag Mai and the northern railhead has some limited utility, but it's a long way to Bangkok that route. Go at it from the west. Ride most of that way on comfy transport ships.

Well I hear you but without CV support I cant sealift. And I cant move by roads as he is blocking the only 2 roads there is with 6000 AV

Anyway, some things to think about. You can grind, but you don't have to. Force him to hard decisions. Don't give him what he wants, which is you beating on fortified positions. Stick and move, stick and move.

Im moving Im moving!

And remember, this is 1942 Bullwinkle being envious of the assets you have to play with!

Mmm toys!



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Post #: 1220
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/5/2013 6:43:52 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Throw five divions onto Pegu. It is an open hex, it'll mess up his day.


Cant do that unfortunately. He has 4500 AV in the way of that hex!

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Post #: 1221
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/5/2013 6:50:54 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Joined: 7/29/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Hey Joe,

Just want to confirm what the others are saying. Frontal attack vs Japan in Burma at this stage of the war are sort of wasteful. As you know the Commonwealth troops are getting stronger but the replacement rate for tanks and devices is so poor that attrition warfare is not the best way to go. You should by now have the sealift to go around him, and Burma can be a trap for the Japanese player for this reason.

It is unfortunate that you have most of your troops locked in central Burma where they cannot be pulled out for other uses too easily but that is the way it is.

Two ideas here. With Japanese control of China, why is Burma important to the Allies at all? Is there a place closer to Japan that you can take that will make his position in Burma impossible. I am thinking Sabang or some place nearer Singapore. Once I landed and secured Sabang, the Indian ocean was closed to Japanese shipping and the Japanese can't move enough supply overland. Has he a heavy defense of Siboret Island? Taking this island or one or two of its neighbors forces the Japanese player to disperse his air force to protect the oilfields.

Anyways, you should be getting strong enough by now to start thinking about going around the largest Japanese positions. Good luck.


Yeah I know its not working with the frontal assault. Only took me a year to realize! I can sealift of course but I need CV cover for that. And I decided quite some time ago against sending them to Burma. Without CV cover I can only jump to say Moulmein. At best I could land 2 IDs but he has 50.000 men there so its a no go.

Burma is not important at all. But Erik seem to think it is. While he has started to pull troops only a few days ago out he still has all the unrestricted Jap IDs here but one. I want to keep it that way while I land in the PI.

So basically I do what I can without CV support with the only goal of keeping as much of his troops here as possible. I tried a bunch of things that didnt work so now I need to try something else!

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 1222
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/5/2013 7:41:09 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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16th July -44

Northern New Guinea/Moluccas

Only ground combat today. I think Erik is massing for an all out joint LBA/KB attack shortly. Im actually not too worried as he is lacking base infrastructure to really mass LBA in the region. As predicted Morotai fell effortless today! Huzzah!

quote:

Ground combat at Morotai (80,101)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 14774 troops, 166 guns, 495 vehicles, Assault Value = 708

Defending force 4557 troops, 26 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 135

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Allied adjusted assault: 1405

Japanese adjusted defense: 82

Allied assault odds: 17 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied forces CAPTURE Morotai !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1210 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 85 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 14 disabled
Engineers: 17 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 20 (3 destroyed, 17 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
30 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


The attack on Noemfoor finally succeeded. Had this happened 2 months ago it would have been a blessing. Now its almost insignificant.

Waigeo is already level 3 and will hit level 4 tomorrow. I have some Hellcats backed up by 50 P47s guarding the place. PTs arrived last turn. I want to post a DD squadron here but it will have to wait a few days.

Im frantically shifting troops. I have A LOT of lift in the area but its taking time shifting everything forward. The next assault wave is assembling. I think its time to move FAST and skip the consolidation until later.

KB
No sign of KB and the Recon of Cebu came out empty. The "fake" KB moved back to Iwo. Sent a CAT squadron to Morotai to see what I can find. Slightly worried as I have some many TFs moving I cant cover them all. Sent the amphibs back under Biak cover. I have 250 P47s there and they should be able to deal with anything the KB can throw at it.

Elsewhere its quiet.








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Post #: 1223
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/5/2013 9:16:27 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 2881
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From: Winnipeg, MB
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If you are considering landing at Manado, note that there is a dot base further up the peninsula that is usually without garrison. You can take that base and march overland to Manado.

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Post #: 1224
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/6/2013 7:49:56 AM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

If you are considering landing at Manado, note that there is a dot base further up the peninsula that is usually without garrison. You can take that base and march overland to Manado.


Yeah, I have 2 Tank BTLs 100% prepped for it. Sidate I think its called. I have 2 IDs + some arty prepped for Mandao and in the unlikely event they fail to take the base Ill land the armor followed by the SOPAC reserve (1 USMC ID) and let them march to Manado.

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Post #: 1225
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/6/2013 8:54:00 AM   
JocMeister

 

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17th-18th July -44

Thrym
Progressing as planned. First assault on Sorong is scheduled for tomorrow. First another BB bombardment is going in followed by the 6th IDs support troops. I embedded a lot of LCI(G)s in that TF hoping it will blast the defenders. Not sure it works that way but Ill try. Should work though! Getting Sorong quickly would really help. Fingers crossed.

Its hard to give an accurate account on what Im doing here. I have so many TFs shuttling BFs to various bases, invasion TFs, Tankers and whatnot its crazy. I am taking a pretty big risk here though but I decided its worth it. There is no way I can cover even a fraction of all the TFs so I have to prioritize. Right now only APA/AKAs and TFs carrying combat troops get aircover. The rest are having to rely on jumping from base to base and getting under base CAP.

Im also counting on the fact that my CVs are in a forward position. Erik cant get to the TFs "behind" my CVs without exposing his strike AC to the CVs. Im 99% certain the strikes would go after my CVs instead of other TFs. Still zero opposition here from Erik. He is probably gathering strength trying to deal one massive blow. But this has helped me in a big way as I now have good CAP up over Waigeo (100 P47, 100 Hellcats) and Morotai (50 Corsairs 50 Spit VII). This relieves the CVs from having to LRCAP TFs bringing in BFs to those bases.

Ive decided to go for speed here. Its risky but Erik still has a lot of troops moving from Burma. I will have to rely on CV cover for the most part as bases wont have time to build up and provide LBA. I doubt there is a better place for me to fight a CV battle though. Erik has almost completely neglected the base building in this area. Most bases doesnt have an AF and the ones that do usually have level 2-3. Only big bases are Badelbaob and Davao with level 7 and 6 respectively. We have an agreement to not overstack bases which means he cant just dump 1000 airplanes on a level 2 AF and let them fly. We have also agreed to not overstack more engines than there are AS at a base which further limits his ability to concentrate aircraft in the area.

KB
KB is still a worry and I have no intel on where they are. Im guessing they are hovering in PI archipelago just outside my Naval search. Im constantly shifting my CVs 1-2 hexes North and then back South 4-5 hexes. Im thinking if he makes a full speed run forward and I move North I get within my own strike range and if I move South I get outside his 8 hexes and he has exposed himself for a counter attack. I hope this way to avoid the BS 8 hex strike I know Erik is going to try for. I have no additional LRCAP up over my CVs. If GJ is correct the extra AC wont matter and the 500 Corsairs on my CVs are piloted by the best pilots I have.

My CVs can still stay in the area for a few days but fuel is getting low. I have 200.000 fuel arriving at Sarmi in 6 to 8 days so Ill withdraw shortly and replenish.

CENTPAC
Im gathering another massive fleet at PH. It will be about a month or so before they can depart. This will a massive convoy with some 500 ships carrying reinforcements for SOPAC front as well as the assault troops slated for Guam and Saipan. They will be covered by 4 BBs and some 600 CV aircraft and sail right through CENTPAC. A huge amount of supply and fuel will go as well together with more support and combat ships.

Allied Logistics


Fuel
Fuel is still short in Northern NG. The 200.000 landing there shortly will probably only be enough to top everything off. I diverted another 100k tanker TF to the Finnschafen - Sarmi route. Finnschafen has 300.000 fuel that I want up at Sarmi. Pago Pago is starting to empty out but there is still some 350.000 fuel at Noumea and 500.000 at Suva that has to be moved to Finnschafen and then Sarmi. I diverted two 100k Tanker TFs from SD to Noumea but it will be some time before they arrive. The fuel situation is beginning to worry me a bit. I only have 1.7 million left in OZ. Only a year ago it was 3,5 million. Ill restart the OZ convoys again.

Supply
Not an issue anywhere. I have 4,2 million in OZ, 3,6 million at PH and 400.000 at Sarmi. In Burma I have about 500.000 and I havnt bother checking in India.

Lift Capacity
Im short on the SOPAC front and have none at the future DEI Front. 2x100 ships xAK TFs left SD two days ago. They are loaded with fuel and will rebase at OZ.

Assault Shipping
Everything is in Northern New Guinea right now. I can lift about 6-8 divisions in one go. This much wont be needed for much longer and half of it will depart for Darwin in a few weeks.

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Post #: 1226
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/6/2013 9:31:49 AM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
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Right, the LCI(G)s are rocket firing landing support vessels. The rockets are a one-shot deal, though, so make sure you have an AKE nearby to replenish them if you want to use them again in a couple of days.

They do not help with unloading troops/cargo after firing their rockets.

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Post #: 1227
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/6/2013 9:35:13 AM   
JocMeister

 

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The Great Mystery of the Marianas

Erik is certainly putting a lot of effort into the Marianas. I think think this is a huge mistake and Im happy to let him continue doing so. Im actually a bit amazed Erik has yet to realize that his overall defensive strategy isnt working. Since I landed on Milne Bay he has relied on regimental sized units backed up by garrison forces and forts. This has failed at every location where I landed with a division or two. Its just a matter of days before the base falls. Now he is repeating the same mistake in the Marianas. I think relying on forts at this stage is a mistake as all the USMC and US divisions have almost a complete Combat Engineer RGT embedded in their TOE. The problem with this strategy is also that it takes a lot of time getting big forts up. Around Port Moresby and New England I encountered level 6 forts. Lately Ive encountered level 3-4.

Forces prepping for Saipan
2 USMC Divisions
3 US Divisions
4 Tank units
8 Arty Units
1 Combat Engineer RGT
1 Amphib Force HQ
1 Command HQ
1 Corps HQ

Total AV: 2600

Forces prepping for Guam
1 USMC Division
3 US Divisions
6 Tank units
2 Flame Tank units
6 Arty Units
1 Combat Engineer RGT
1 Amphib Force HQ
1 Corps HQ

Total AV: 1950

I think Erik has failed to recognize the Allied OOB at this stage. He should be "missing" 2 USMC Divisions and 8(!) US Divisions. Two of them he will "find" in Northern New Guinea shortly!

Interesting enough I dont think I really need the Marianas. It would certainly help but with the Allied lifting capacity I can haul from PH directly to New Guinea. Drawback is that I need CVE cover between Eniwetok and NG. I guess its a moot point since I will secure the Marianas before 44 is up anyway but its an interesting reflection.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1228
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/6/2013 1:22:52 PM   
JocMeister

 

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19th July -44

Still not much actionwise.

Thrym
Erik sends in a crapload of subs into my Biak-Waigeo shipping lane. I lose a DE and Erik loses 3 subs. I send out a few ASW TFs to deal with the problem. First attack of Sorong goes fantastic. A lot better than expected!

First the BB bombardment

quote:

Night Naval bombardment of Sorong at 82,107

Allied Ships
BB California
BB Arizona
BB Nevada
BB Maryland
DD Stevens
DD Stembel
DD Sproston
DD Sigsbee
DD Sigourney
DD Norman Scott
DD John Rodgers
DD Remey


Japanese ground losses:
203 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 12 destroyed, 22 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 6 (3 destroyed, 3 disabled)


The followup landing of the support troops of the 6th ID is a disappointment. Im guessing the fort (lvl 4) makes the rockets ineffective?

But the actual attack went fantastically well! Better than I dared hope.

quote:

Ground combat at Sorong (82,107)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 21673 troops, 466 guns, 567 vehicles, Assault Value = 897

Defending force 18489 troops, 179 guns, 52 vehicles, Assault Value = 605

Allied adjusted assault: 1308

Japanese adjusted defense: 1497

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 4)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-)
experience(-)

Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1456 casualties reported
Squads: 14 destroyed, 126 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 17 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 23 (2 destroyed, 21 disabled)
Vehicles lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
361 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 35 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 14 (1 destroyed, 13 disabled)


Assaulting units:
6th Infantry Division
25th Infantry Division

671th Tank Destroyer Battalion
3rd USMC Tank Battalion
I US Corps
1st Medium Regiment


Defending units:

45th Ind.Mixed Brigade
5th Garrison Unit
16th Garrison Unit
2nd Amphibious Brigade
8th Garrison Unit
44th Naval Guard Unit

3rd JNAF AF Unit
37th JAAF AF Bn
13th Air Fleet /1


I will allow my troops to rest a few days so the support parts of the both IDs can land. Disruption is a bit high with the TD unit topping out at 28. Very happy!

Burma
Moving...

OZ
ZZZzzZZzz

CENTPAC
Erik continues to strike at Tinian. Runway damage was up to 28 at one point but is now back to zero. Troops look in good order with 32.000 supply still left.

KB
Dead silent. I dont like it. Sent a long range recon up to Morotai to take a peek at Manilla. I dont think he is there. Im guessing either East or West of Mindanao just outside my search. I can see 16 hexes from Morotai. Its unlikely he has an exact fix on my CVs. His naval search seems poor in the area. Often only a 1-3 DL on my TFs and 80% are completely undetected. He might try a strike at my Waigeo express that is largely uncovered. So I dont use any important shipping here.

Here is screen of the anthill!




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Post #: 1229
RE: Operation Thrym - 6/6/2013 3:56:58 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 7307
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Status: online
Logistics may not grab the headlines, but it will decide the war for you if you take time daily to do it right. I'm less than a year behind and it takes up most of my orders phase already.

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