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RE: 1944! - 2/13/2013 7:00:02 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Well, Iīve certainly learned my lessons on thinking I know best! Iīll do as you both suggests!

HS, that means I still strongly outnumber me. Good info. I will keep the CVEs in the same hex as the CVs to make sure I get the added CAP. Without the CAP from the CVEs Iīm really thin. Hellcats and Corsairs canīt make up the whole numerical difference!

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 661
RE: 1944! - 2/13/2013 7:02:43 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


I will mention that in my experience, range 0 is not the best for CAP interceptions. Look at it this way - if your TF is in the middle of the 40 nm hex, and his strike aircraft are approaching at 240 nm/hr, you have 1/12 of an hour or 5 minutes to intercept and engage before he is over your TF dropping bombs and torpedos. This is not enough time to push through the escorts and take down the bombers. At range 1, your CAP gets 10 additional minutes to engage before the enemy arrives.


The trade-off is more pilot fatigue.

_____________________________

The Moose

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Post #: 662
RE: 1944! - 2/14/2013 9:40:22 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 5209
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From: Sweden
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Burma failure

I have been spending some time looking at the Burma situation. The more I look at it the more this looks to be turning into a failure. Going over the numbers I have some 13K AV against Eriks 10,5K AV (that I know of, probably more). Given the defensive terrain and forts I donīt think I have enough here to dislodge him. Not even close.

The bomber command has certainly been a disappointment. Iīm causing some 100 losses each turn on a stack of 90.000 troops. After almost a month of bombing I didnīt even achieve a modifier for low moral or disruption. Thats 400 bombers going at it almost each day.

Iīm all out of ideas right now. I put almost all my eggs in this Burma basket. But with the added troops from he has from China I donīt think I can do much more here. He is certainly very weak everywhere else as indicated by the SOPAC campaign. I have roughly 14 divisions to "spare" but lack the means to put them somewhere important (DEI).

I also got some interesting numbers from Erik himself. He is not producing 500 Fighters per month. He is producing a staggering 1050 Fighters per month! How the heck am I supposed to deal with that? If he ever decides to put up a fight in the air he will drain my pools completely dry in a month.

Anyone have any ideas? I canīt land in the DEI as KB guards is. As my CV strength is right now I wouldnīt want to take it on. Even less so with LBA thrown in.

Do I except the stalemate in Burma and keep going in SOPAC? Do I abandon Burma and go somewhere else? Do I abandon SOPAC and send everything to Burma? Do I sneak some IDs out of Burma and send to CENT/SOPAC?

What to do? I put myself in this mess by playing extremely poorly and passive in 43. Now I have to try and sort this out. Just donīt know how!


(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 663
RE: 1944! - 2/15/2013 12:33:28 AM   
poodlebrain

 

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Remember why Japan is fighting this war. Her economy needed oil. You can cut off the oil at Magwe with LBA making Burma a sideshow. That leaves three other sources of oil for the Japanese, Sumatra, Java and Borneo, that you should be able to take by frontal assault once your carrier fleet has expanded. An alternative to the frontal assault is to get into position to interdict the transport of the oil to Japan. You have the resources to threaten the Japanese from all directions, and you still have margin for error. The Japanese lack the resources to defend from more than one direction, and they have zero margin for error. My advice is the same as I got from a SFC when I was a 2LT disappointed with my platoon's performance during an exercise, "Soldier on."

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Post #: 664
RE: 1944! - 2/15/2013 1:28:31 AM   
Saros

 

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Can you post a strategic map shot so we can see where you might be able to make a move?

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Post #: 665
RE: 1944! - 2/15/2013 7:16:46 AM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: poodlebrain

Remember why Japan is fighting this war. Her economy needed oil. You can cut off the oil at Magwe with LBA making Burma a sideshow. That leaves three other sources of oil for the Japanese, Sumatra, Java and Borneo, that you should be able to take by frontal assault once your carrier fleet has expanded. An alternative to the frontal assault is to get into position to interdict the transport of the oil to Japan. You have the resources to threaten the Japanese from all directions, and you still have margin for error. The Japanese lack the resources to defend from more than one direction, and they have zero margin for error. My advice is the same as I got from a SFC when I was a 2LT disappointed with my platoon's performance during an exercise, "Soldier on."


Magwe havnīt produced any oil since mid 42!

I would love to do a frontal assault but he will have carrier supremacy for another year at least. I canīt take on the KB + LBA and land in the DEI. So I guess Iīll continue to try for the Philippines.

Here is a strategic map of the situation. I just got SigInt on 2 more IDs moving by sea to Burma...




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 666
RE: 1944! - 2/15/2013 7:37:58 AM   
1275psi

 

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As a Jap player, I look and see only one path for you

marcus, iwo Jima, okiwana............cut him off!

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Post #: 667
RE: 1944! - 2/15/2013 7:51:02 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 5209
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HRs and other stuff

Not many turns has been done the last 2 days. We have had a discussion going on weather or not to continue the game. Or rather I have asked if we should drop it as none of us seems to enjoy the game very much. But Erik still wants to continue though and I have promised to see this through as long as he wants to play on.

This in turn sparked a discussion on some of our HRs. Erik wants to remove the one limiting planes to the 2nd best MVR band. I donīt want to as I have been on the receiving end of that HR for 2 years when his Tojos would swoop down on my Warhawks and Cobras stuck by the HR 10.000 feet lower. The air model being what it is often resulted in 50:1 KDR for him. Now when Iīm finally being able to use that HR to my advantage I wonīt give it up. Period.

Erik also wanted to limit the stacking on the airfields putting a 500 plane CAP on level 9 AF. This I feel I can never agree to. If so there has to be an exception for the 4Es. And to be fair I have only been "overstacking" at Portland Roads earlier and then Port Moresby due to not having anywhere else to place them! It is actually Erik that has bunched his fighters up (500-600+) as Rabaul and Rangoon. So I donīt really know where this is coming from. But I will think it through before getting him a definitive answer.

There are also some things that are not sitting well with me lately and last turn we had another of those moments.

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Howland Island at 148,125

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes


Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 59
SBD-5 Dauntless x 34


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AMc Shonan Maru #7, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk


We have explicitly stated in our HR that pickets CAN be used if used within reason Posting a coastal minesweeper in the middle of the ocean doesnīt qualify in my book. So now he has busted the Gilberts operation. It just leaves a sour taste in my mouth and drops my motivation even further. I spent almost 3 hours getting everything in order and loaded up. That is now time spent in vain. Everyone with a baby and a job knows how precious 3 hours are. I.am.not.happy!





< Message edited by JocMeister -- 2/15/2013 8:24:14 AM >

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Post #: 668
RE: 1944! - 2/15/2013 10:38:30 AM   
JocMeister

 

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I received a response for Erik. We decided not to implement any change to the HRs right now. Once Erik gets fighters that have access to the highest MVR band we will discuss this again. I would take this opportunity to tell anyone reading this that is thinking about staring a PBEM or is still early in the game:

Use stacking limits in your game. It goes a long way to sorting out many of the problems with the land war.
Donīt use the "2nd best MVR altitude band" HR. It will ruin the air war. A better HR would be to limit max altitude per year instead. Or just keep everything below 20k.

On the picket ship I got a very discerning answer.

quote:

All of the small PB classes of ship can be converted into many types with virtually the same armament and capabilities. This ship is being used because it's a combat ship, not a merchant, and because it has a long enough range to be able to stay out there for a while. This is the type of ship the US found off of Japan during the Doolittle attack. Several were sunk by surface vessels. So what I'm doing here has an exact historical relevance, even down to ship type.


Calling a AMc for "combat ship" is stretching reality I think. This picket ship has really gotten me upset. But perhaps I shouldnīt be?

On the plus side if Erik finds this acceptable I donīt think he can really complain if I send out AMc later in the game for "pilot rescue" and stuff triggering massive naval strikes and kami attacks...

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 669
RE: 1944! - 2/15/2013 11:05:56 AM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 1275psi

As a Jap player, I look and see only one path for you

marcus, iwo Jima, okiwana............cut him off!


Thats actually not a bad idea!

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Post #: 670
RE: 1944! - 2/15/2013 11:45:41 AM   
DOCUP


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Joc:

First question.  Why is it not fun for either of you?  You don't have to answer here.  Just ask yourself and your opponent.  Find the answer to that then fix it.  

Don't take this the wrong way, but you have tunnel vision.  Your focusing on Burma and DEI.  You have other options.  1275psi just gave you one.

Burma:
I don't think you have screwd up here.  Also I don't think its a secondary theather.   Look how much of the Jap military you have tied down here.  Thats a victory.  He can't up and move all these troops in an instant.   You have done good job in Burma.  Keep working on it you will wear him down just give it some more time.  Remember he dosen't have the endless resources that you do.  For ever man, tank, plane you destroy in Burma.  He has to pay for in HI, LI, fuel and what not.  This attrition will work for you not him. Once his troops are locked into Burma Look across the map.  You said yourself he is weak in other spots of the map.  Where are they?   What can you do to capitalize on these weak points? 

Example:
Just what 1275psi said.  Also, what does he have in the Aluetians?  Pull a CR or Greyjoy attack use the northern route.  Or use it as a feint.  Make him pull troops up their to defend from your attacks.

Gilberts and Marshalls are also an idea.

Ok lets say you want to take Burma.  Feint in the Aluetians pull the IJN out of the area of DEI and Burma and attack the Andaman Islands.  Cut off Rangoon, he won't be able to ship in supplies, and we know what will happen to his troops then.  This will also give you a starting point in the DEI.

DEI:
I would love to hit that area, but every Jap player will defend it.  Just keep throwing a bag of burning dog poop on his doorstep, so he has to come out and put out the fire. lol   Ok translation, do raids so he has to keep forces here and not where they are needed the most. 

I might be wrong with my advise, but I'm sure someone will correct me.  I think you have done a good job in Burma.  Ok back to bed.

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Post #: 671
RE: 1944! - 2/15/2013 3:08:56 PM   
Cpt Sherwood

 

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If you are not having fun now, have you considered asking for a replacement player?

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RE: 1944! - 2/15/2013 4:26:35 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

HRs and other stuff

Not many turns has been done the last 2 days. We have had a discussion going on weather or not to continue the game. Or rather I have asked if we should drop it as none of us seems to enjoy the game very much. But Erik still wants to continue though and I have promised to see this through as long as he wants to play on.

This in turn sparked a discussion on some of our HRs. Erik wants to remove the one limiting planes to the 2nd best MVR band. I donīt want to as I have been on the receiving end of that HR for 2 years when his Tojos would swoop down on my Warhawks and Cobras stuck by the HR 10.000 feet lower. The air model being what it is often resulted in 50:1 KDR for him. Now when Iīm finally being able to use that HR to my advantage I wonīt give it up. Period.

Erik also wanted to limit the stacking on the airfields putting a 500 plane CAP on level 9 AF. This I feel I can never agree to. If so there has to be an exception for the 4Es. And to be fair I have only been "overstacking" at Portland Roads earlier and then Port Moresby due to not having anywhere else to place them! It is actually Erik that has bunched his fighters up (500-600+) as Rabaul and Rangoon. So I donīt really know where this is coming from. But I will think it through before getting him a definitive answer.

There are also some things that are not sitting well with me lately and last turn we had another of those moments.

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Howland Island at 148,125

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes


Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 59
SBD-5 Dauntless x 34


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AMc Shonan Maru #7, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk


We have explicitly stated in our HR that pickets CAN be used if used within reason Posting a coastal minesweeper in the middle of the ocean doesnīt qualify in my book. So now he has busted the Gilberts operation. It just leaves a sour taste in my mouth and drops my motivation even further. I spent almost 3 hours getting everything in order and loaded up. That is now time spent in vain. Everyone with a baby and a job knows how precious 3 hours are. I.am.not.happy!






This post encapsulates several reasons I HATE HRs.

You're playing the Allies, man! You've passed the hard times. Go pound him!

There has to be some area of your effort you could give more attention to. Forget Burma for a few days; it won't kill you. When is the last time you re-deployed your subs to kill some tankers? Is there an island in the Aleutians calling your name? Don't get so hamstrung by carriers you forget the rest of the Allied hammer.

What's up in the Solomons?

_____________________________

The Moose

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Post #: 673
RE: 1944! - 2/15/2013 4:30:36 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

On the picket ship I got a very discerning answer.

quote:

All of the small PB classes of ship can be converted into many types with virtually the same armament and capabilities. This ship is being used because it's a combat ship, not a merchant, and because it has a long enough range to be able to stay out there for a while. This is the type of ship the US found off of Japan during the Doolittle attack. Several were sunk by surface vessels. So what I'm doing here has an exact historical relevance, even down to ship type.


Calling a AMc for "combat ship" is stretching reality I think. This picket ship has really gotten me upset. But perhaps I shouldnīt be?

Well, it is a combat ship in that it isn't a merchant ship. My response to this HR is always: 1) I'll do the same as I see fit, and 2) You're going to lose this ship. Hope you have more. Thanks for the training opportunity.

On the plus side if Erik finds this acceptable I donīt think he can really complain if I send out AMc later in the game for "pilot rescue" and stuff triggering massive naval strikes and kami attacks...

Exactly. That's the spirit!




_____________________________

The Moose

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Post #: 674
RE: 1944! - 2/15/2013 4:38:42 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Joc:

First question.  Why is it not fun for either of you?  You don't have to answer here.  Just ask yourself and your opponent.  Find the answer to that then fix it.  

Don't take this the wrong way, but you have tunnel vision.  Your focusing on Burma and DEI.  You have other options.  1275psi just gave you one.

Burma:
I don't think you have screwd up here.  Also I don't think its a secondary theather.   Look how much of the Jap military you have tied down here.  Thats a victory.  He can't up and move all these troops in an instant.   You have done good job in Burma.  Keep working on it you will wear him down just give it some more time.  Remember he dosen't have the endless resources that you do.  For ever man, tank, plane you destroy in Burma.  He has to pay for in HI, LI, fuel and what not.  This attrition will work for you not him. Once his troops are locked into Burma Look across the map.  You said yourself he is weak in other spots of the map.  Where are they?   What can you do to capitalize on these weak points? 

Example:
Just what 1275psi said.  Also, what does he have in the Aluetians?  Pull a CR or Greyjoy attack use the northern route.  Or use it as a feint.  Make him pull troops up their to defend from your attacks.

Gilberts and Marshalls are also an idea.

Ok lets say you want to take Burma.  Feint in the Aluetians pull the IJN out of the area of DEI and Burma and attack the Andaman Islands.  Cut off Rangoon, he won't be able to ship in supplies, and we know what will happen to his troops then.  This will also give you a starting point in the DEI.

DEI:
I would love to hit that area, but every Jap player will defend it.  Just keep throwing a bag of burning dog poop on his doorstep, so he has to come out and put out the fire. lol   Ok translation, do raids so he has to keep forces here and not where they are needed the most. 

I might be wrong with my advise, but I'm sure someone will correct me.  I think you have done a good job in Burma.  Ok back to bed.


Largely agree with all this.

Burma: too many Allied players think they have to crush, kill, destroy here. In RL it was still being fought over in May 1945 I think. It bled the Empire right to the end. Do that and it's served its purpose. If you can do more and get down into Malaysia or Indo-China, great. But you don't have to.

The USN is in the process of building the greatest fleet seen in world history. So you're short of CV s now. Deal. You have some CVEs. Look at the edges if you can't go long. The Aleutians are a good idea if you can work the winter rules. Marcus is deep, might be too deep for now, but put it on a to-do list. Eniwetok in this era is not a bad look-see. It is a GREAT supply dump/stage for the Marianas in mid-1944 on historical time tracks. Can you achieve a foothold on the western Sumatra islands? Those build to very nice air bases, and you can bomb Oil from them. Etc. You have options.

Above all, bleed him, bleed him, bleed him. Not just aircraft. Ships. Fuel. Armament points. Every week look at airgroups which aren't bombing something and ask "why not?"



_____________________________

The Moose

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Post #: 675
RE: 1944! - 2/16/2013 5:43:28 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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Hey guys. Thank you for the encouragement!

Well, I certainly misinterpreted Eriks will to continue. He is still really enjoying the game and want to continue playing. Iīm not sure why Iīm not having much fun anymore. But I think it just that I donīt enjoy this period in the game very much. I miss the tension of 42 and 43. I was nervous before opening every turn, watched every battle and felt attached to the units involved. Now I have so much stuff it really doesnīt matter. I just donīt care as much!?

Its just the grind of it. No finesse or anything. Just load up troops. Put up LRCAP, land, bomb, capture base. Move in BFs. Rinse and repeat for 2 years. I feel more like an overseer in a factory then a armchair general! But perhaps that is just the essence of being the allied player.

After several emails back and forth yesterday we decided not to change any HRs. Good or bad we started out with them so we will finish with them. I was very clear with Erik that I wonīt drop the game as long as he wants to continue. So continue we will.

I really donīt like his use of the picket ships. Historical or not (and I do feel he is really stretching it here) it just messes with the engine. But as the USN used them in large numbers outside the HI it opens up some great opportunities for me later on. Iīll just keep a copy of Eriks reply and send it to him when he gets upset that 500 kamis go after a PF somewhere!

Burma

Thank you all for the advice and encouragement here too. Perhaps its not as bad as I think it is. As Docoup says I have tied down some massive Japanese forces here. He has another 2 divisions on its way. That means he probably has some 12k-14k AV here. I know he is really weak in SOPAC as the last month have shown. If he doesnīt do anything soon I will land on Mindanao before 44 is up.

Iīm really intrigued by 1275psis idea by bypassing the Marshalls and going straight for Markus. But as Bullwinkle says. This might be too deep. I need a good staging point somewhere. Marshalls is the logical target. Iīm too short on troops to take it all (1 ID 2 USMC). But I donīt really need that do I? 2-3 Bases in the Marshalls is enough to suppress him there. Add Wake to that (have a Ind RGT and a tank BTL prepped). I could then take Markus, bypass the Marianas and go straight for Bonin? That would buy me 3-6 months?

That could also be...fun? Would give me something else to focus on besides the grinding in Burma and NG. Time to look at the map!

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 676
RE: 1944! - 2/16/2013 9:25:34 AM   
Encircled


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Go get em, Joc!

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RE: 1944! - 2/16/2013 11:53:38 AM   
PaxMondo


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Very happy to hear that you guys will continue.

<fades out>

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Pax

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Post #: 678
RE: 1944! - 2/16/2013 12:31:49 PM   
ny59giants


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I'm in early '44 for the first time ever. At times, it is not fun being Japan. I've just experienced my first taste of a 300 plus CAP over the Allied CVs. Ouch!! I will be learning how to cope with being on the receiving end of overwhelming force at certain places on the map. Some things as a player cannot be learned except by playing. Look at your game as learning how to use certain assets more effectively. You will soon get both the second gen P-47s and then the mighty B-29s. From previous posting, you don't seem to enjoy doing all the logistics that is required as the Allies at this stage. Lots of planning and moving TFs around to keep up with that is often boring. I see myself saying I need to do 'x' but tell myself that I'll do it in a few days. I then find myself with the third incident of not having 2x supply at my P-38s base and don't have drop tanks available.

I look at Burma as more a World War I battle. Just shear numbers when you play without stacking limits. It is worse for you here and everywhere as you lost the battle of China. This allowed Erik to free up lots of extra troops.

While others have advised a bold move in the North Pacific or through the Marshalls, I would be focusing on moving up both sides of New Guinea with the thought of getting to the Philippines. Another thought occurred while typing and that would be a huge encirclement that included the Marshalls and the NG/Solomons.

Overall, I would take some more time to do a turn and get better organized. You may not get to Japan by '46, but the trip there should be a fun one.

_____________________________


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Post #: 679
RE: 1944! - 2/16/2013 3:44:33 PM   
poodlebrain

 

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From: Comfy Chair in Baton Rouge
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Looking at the strategic map I ask myself where can the Allies advance to within one year? Of those locations which would I prefer? And I find myself in agreement with you regarding the Philippines. The Japanese cannot survive the Allies possessing the Philippines in strength. I have some slightly different ideas about how to get there.

My first priority would be securing the Bismark Archipelago and Admiralty Islands. This would isolate New Britain and the Solomons. It would give the Allies the option of attacking north toward the Marianas or west toward the Philippines. I'd look for a long flanking attack on the north coast of New Guinea with the objective of getting a fighter base as far forward as possible. The bypassed bases could then be taken in smash and grab operations. Killing the Japanese defenders isn't necessary. Retreating them into the jungle is just as effective. All of the isolated Japanese defenders would be ideal targets for training missions for newly arriving air units and ships as a bonus from this approach.

It's also critical for the Allies to keep applying pressure all along the Japanes defensive perimeter. The KB cannot be everywhere, and it is the only means the Japanese have of stopping, or even slowing, a determined Allied attack at this point. Force the Japanese to keep the IJN, and particularly the KB, at sea. The Japanese cannot match the Allies operational tempo, and eventually the effects of fatigue and morale will catch up with the Japanese. The Allies only have to catch them once in disarray. So try and increase the chances of it occurring by attacking just at the edge of KB response range. It's risky, but what is the fun of life without risk?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I'm in early '44 for the first time ever. At times, it is not fun being Japan. I've just experienced my first taste of a 300 plus CAP over the Allied CVs. Ouch!! I will be learning how to cope with being on the receiving end of overwhelming force at certain places on the map. Some things as a player cannot be learned except by playing. Look at your game as learning how to use certain assets more effectively. You will soon get both the second gen P-47s and then the mighty B-29s. From previous posting, you don't seem to enjoy doing all the logistics that is required as the Allies at this stage. Lots of planning and moving TFs around to keep up with that is often boring. I see myself saying I need to do 'x' but tell myself that I'll do it in a few days. I then find myself with the third incident of not having 2x supply at my P-38s base and don't have drop tanks available.

I look at Burma as more a World War I battle. Just shear numbers when you play without stacking limits. It is worse for you here and everywhere as you lost the battle of China. This allowed Erik to free up lots of extra troops.

While others have advised a bold move in the North Pacific or through the Marshalls, I would be focusing on moving up both sides of New Guinea with the thought of getting to the Philippines. Another thought occurred while typing and that would be a huge encirclement that included the Marshalls and the NG/Solomons.

Overall, I would take some more time to do a turn and get better organized. You may not get to Japan by '46, but the trip there should be a fun one.


(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 680
RE: 1944! - 2/17/2013 11:08:14 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 5209
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From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I see myself saying I need to do 'x' but tell myself that I'll do it in a few days. I then find myself with the third incident of not having 2x supply at my P-38s base and don't have drop tanks available.

Overall, I would take some more time to do a turn and get better organized. You may not get to Japan by '46, but the trip there should be a fun one.


That is EXACTLY what I have been doing. That "Iīll do it next turn" thing. Its a bad habit and the only remedy is as you point out to spend more time with the turns. I have already told Erik I will have to drop the turn rate on weekdays a few weeks ago. Hopefully this will help clear the backlog.

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Post #: 681
RE: 1944! - 2/17/2013 12:39:36 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Ouff, Had some friends over last night in the new house. Well, Ida was sleeping and I kind of forgot she doesnīt really care if daddy wants to sleep all day and feel like crap. I got to bed at 1 oīclock or something after drinking way more beer then I should have. Iīm paying the price today. Or rather I started paying it at 5:30 this morning when a certain someone woke up...


Strategic thinking

I LOVE the discussion guys!

Aleutians

I feel this is beyond the scope for me right now. I have only 4 RGTs up there prepped for Cold Bay and Dutch. Doing anything else here would require me to shift forces from somewhere else. Erik has abandoned the area and probably bottled up around Adak. I donīt think shifting forces right now would be in my interest? Besides taking 2 months to shift the troops I would also have to send combat ships and air groups here.

CENTPAC

Gilberts operation is already in full swing. I will land on Kuria (a small dot island S of Abemama) to set up a Cat base. I need to make sure Erik wonīt jump me with the KB. While this is happening I will work over Tarawa and Abemama. Once they have fallen I can start repreping forces. Question is for what?

I have 1 ID and 2 USMC to do something with after that. I see two options. Either prep for something in the Marshalls or move them to SOPAC and let CENTPAC be. I am toying with the idea of going directly for the Bonins or Wake/Marcus and then Bonins in late 44 completely bypassing the Marianas as 1275psi suggested.

If I do something in CENTPAC there are some reinforcements that could be diverted here. I have 3 US IDs and 1 USMC Division arriving in the coming three months.

SOPAC/NG/OZ

Here is the only place on the map where things are at least moving forward. Its also where I have diverted most of the forces lately. Iīm almost as strong here as in Burma with 2 USMC Divisons, 3 OZ divisions and 12 US Divisions. Opposing this is only about 100.000 Japanese troops of smaller sizes. Only one ID identified (22nd) and its wrecked after PM.

After PM fell Erik is relying on smaller sized forces of Brigades and Garrison forces that so far hasnīt been able to halt me for more then 2-3 turns. I really feel this is where I can make strides. Erik is airlifting units out from Rabaul placing them in my path. Often not more then 10.000 troops at any base. I really feel this is the area to push hard. Once I get past his first new defensive line he wonīt have much in the way of troops left. Manus will be key to this area. I have 3 divisions prepping for this. With Manus in Allied hand Rabaul will be irrelevant.

So really I guess it comes down to what I should do after Gilberts? Do I send the 4 divisions coming online together with the forces already in CENTPAC to NG bolstering the forces there to almost 20 divisions? My gut tells me doing something in CENTPAC will be more..fun! So I probably should to that. Question is what? Marshalls? Wake/Markus and then Bonins? Marianas? (Is that even doable with only 7 divisions?)

Iīm just learning how to do amphibious operations and still havnīt done any major ones. So I donīt know what is possible to do and not? Gilberts will be my first divisional sized atoll landing. So any imput or ideas from you guys are highly valued!




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Post #: 682
RE: 1944! - 2/17/2013 5:00:31 PM   
BBfanboy


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I think the first thing is to ask yourself where you want to be at the end of the year, and gear your ops to make that happen.

The Wake-Marcus operation is good in that he must commit naval and long range air forces to oppose it. The down side is that every time you want to resupply or reinforce those islands you must bring lots of naval support and at least CVE air cover. You must also search nearly 360š because you are so deep in "Indian Country". I would not do this operation unless I was sure I had naval and air dominance for the next six months.

You should have enough sealift to advance in the Aleutians a little, just to let him know you can strike there. Take back some empty bases [but not during winter months]. You do not have to garrison every island you take back. If you can work your way out to Attu and isolate Adak, so much the better. You want him to worry about troops cut off and send ships into your LBA cover.

If you are making progress in NG and surrounding area, continue! Anywhere that there are lots of places for him to defend splits his forces into smaller packets that you can overrun or bypass. Interlocking LBA cover is your friend. Babeldaob should be on your target list to threaten the Philippines.
You might be able to pull some surprises in southern NG by taking back Merauke and some of the other few bases there to open the Eastern DEI to threat. There is an area he can't defend [too many islands] and can't ignore either.

Amphib landings - lots of advice on this in the War Room forum. Use more xAPs than you need to ensure they can unload all the troops in one turn. Load some xAKs with supply only and embed them in the Amphib TF. Embed some minesweepers [DMS, AM] and BBs/CAs in the TF. If you have enough, use other BBs/CAs/CLs to bombard before the landing to disrupt the enemy. Have minesweepers precede the bombardment TF. Have some independent ASW TFs moving ahead of the invasion TF. Use CVEs to put up fighters for CAP and bombers for ASW and search.

A note about "load cost" which you may already know: it seems to be based on weight of the equipment but takes no account of bulk/inability to stack, until the loading takes place. If the unit has tanks or artillery, I multiply the cargo load cost times four. If it has mortars or AA guns or other vehicles, times three. Use higher multiples than this if you want the TF to off-load the equipment faster.

Whatever you choose to do - good luck!

_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

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Post #: 683
RE: 1944! - 2/17/2013 6:17:50 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8625
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

CENTPAC

Gilberts operation is already in full swing. I will land on Kuria (a small dot island S of Abemama) to set up a Cat base. I need to make sure Erik wonīt jump me with the KB. While this is happening I will work over Tarawa and Abemama. Once they have fallen I can start repreping forces. Question is for what?

I have 1 ID and 2 USMC to do something with after that. I see two options. Either prep for something in the Marshalls or move them to SOPAC and let CENTPAC be. I am toying with the idea of going directly for the Bonins or Wake/Marcus and then Bonins in late 44 completely bypassing the Marianas as 1275psi suggested.

If I do something in CENTPAC there are some reinforcements that could be diverted here. I have 3 US IDs and 1 USMC Division arriving in the coming three months.

SOPAC/NG/OZ

Here is the only place on the map where things are at least moving forward. Its also where I have diverted most of the forces lately. Iīm almost as strong here as in Burma with 2 USMC Divisons, 3 OZ divisions and 12 US Divisions. Opposing this is only about 100.000 Japanese troops of smaller sizes. Only one ID identified (22nd) and its wrecked after PM.

After PM fell Erik is relying on smaller sized forces of Brigades and Garrison forces that so far hasnīt been able to halt me for more then 2-3 turns. I really feel this is where I can make strides. Erik is airlifting units out from Rabaul placing them in my path. Often not more then 10.000 troops at any base. I really feel this is the area to push hard. Once I get past his first new defensive line he wonīt have much in the way of troops left. Manus will be key to this area. I have 3 divisions prepping for this. With Manus in Allied hand Rabaul will be irrelevant.

So really I guess it comes down to what I should do after Gilberts? Do I send the 4 divisions coming online together with the forces already in CENTPAC to NG bolstering the forces there to almost 20 divisions? My gut tells me doing something in CENTPAC will be more..fun! So I probably should to that. Question is what? Marshalls? Wake/Markus and then Bonins? Marianas? (Is that even doable with only 7 divisions?)

Iīm just learning how to do amphibious operations and still havnīt done any major ones. So I donīt know what is possible to do and not? Gilberts will be my first divisional sized atoll landing. So any imput or ideas from you guys are highly valued!


Just some musings. Take them for what they're worth.

Consider the calendar. Everything takes more time than you think it will, prep being what it is. Bypassing bases in 1944 is normal; you don't have to stomp everything. He can't supply the deep eastern bases well if you're using your subs properly. Every decent-sized base should have a little friend in attendance 24/7. Supply xAKs sink just as good as Resource xAKs.

In my AI games I've taken all of the Marshalls and Gilberts a couple of times. The urge to do it is strong since several of the out-islands can have stiff air wings. But beware that several of them--Wotje and Milli (sp?) in particular--have naval fortress-sytle CD emplacements which will mess you up. To me only Kwajalein and MAYBE Roi Namur are worth the losses. Once you have them you have a forward sub base and you have an AF big enough to take down the other islands' air fields and keep them down without tying up your Marines. Take the islands out of supply and forget them. The Marines should be looking west.

If you're pretty far behind the curve in NG by 1944 I tend to look at that area as a "bleed area." Operate there, do what damage you can, but your main thrust with time ticking needs to be getting to strategic range of the HI and ending this thing. There are excellent historical reasons the US went for the Marianas. Consult the map. That's a man's operation and if you do it successfully you have mastered all the amphibious challenge the game can present. It's a beast of an operation. When I've done it in AI games 800-1000 ships is pretty normal. You probably need at least some carriers, and you will take losses. But after the Marianas are secure the handwritiing is on the wall.

In game terms I would not go the historical phasing. I'd take Tinian first and get some LBA in there fast. Then Guam, then Saipan. Saipan also has badass CD. You're going to need the better part of a million supply too. Thus my recco before about taking Eniwetok. Two USMC divisions and an army one should be fine for that. Then rest and prep at E. Build supply dumps there too. You have long-range recon planes which can JUST reach the Marianas from E. (The B-24 recon variant I think; it's been awhile.) This is very useful.

Marcus to me is fine for what it is--a patrol base to get eyes deep into his backfield and vector subs, but it's not a main staging base. The IJN can raid it unless you have assets to spare to babysit, and to me you have better jobs for those ships. The Bonins can be back-breakers if you don't invest enough force. I've finished AI GCs with fighting still going on at Iwo Jima. If he's dug in and garrisoned it's among the hardest targets on the map. And not much of a better air base than Saipan/Tinian for strat bombing.

At this date my prejudice agaisnt dinking around in the DEI is probably apparent. A lot of Allied players do it, but the LBA ratios work against you when he has infinite planes and you don't. Prep periods also make moving through that mass of islands slow. To me the wide-open spaces of the Pacific are what the WWII USN fleet was built for. Fast, logistically-sustainable, excellent air power, the best Marines in the world, dedicated landing ships, super-BBs. Use the Navy for what it's designed for.

As I said, some musings. FWIW.


< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 2/17/2013 6:22:40 PM >


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RE: 1944! - 2/19/2013 2:40:06 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Hey guys!

Sorry for the lack of responses and updates. I have a MAJOR exam coming up on Friday. By chance I found out yesterday I have been lacking about 1/3rd of the study material. I have been studying for the exam for 3 months so its a pretty big one.

So basically my life is on hold now while I try to do about a month worth of study in 3 days while working during the days!

Iīll get back to you all and do a proper update on Friday!

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Post #: 685
RE: 1944! - 2/19/2013 3:06:47 PM   
Uncivil Engineer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister
So really I guess it comes down to what I should do after Gilberts? Do I send the 4 divisions coming online together with the forces already in CENTPAC to NG bolstering the forces there to almost 20 divisions? My gut tells me doing something in CENTPAC will be more..fun! So I probably should to that. Question is what? Marshalls? Wake/Markus and then Bonins? Marianas? (Is that even doable with only 7 divisions?)


Reinforce success !

Throwing out a bunch of diversions to keep him guessing sounds like a good idea. That's how Japan lost IRL (among other things). A key principle of war is OBJECTIVE; don't have too many. Don't bother with the Aleutians unless he's giving it away; then take whatever is free.

Stick with your New Guinea plan and do a MacArthur all the way to Luzon.

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Post #: 686
RE: 1944! - 2/19/2013 7:40:19 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Ah, head is swimming right now. Decided to take an hour break and spend some time with the family. Only to discover the family is fast asleep!

Bullwinkle,

Your musings are certainly welcome! Especially so since you are one of only two people that I know of that has played a game to completion! I may misinterpret you so please correct me if Iīm wrong. But I think you are saying that the Marianas are essential and a much better target then the Bonins. I see your reasoning. Bonins require shock attacks on landings and stacking have stacking limits. Things not so good for the attacker. Capturing the Marianas would threaten the HI and force Erik to divert substantial forces to cover his industry.

What kind of forces would be needed to secure 2 bases in your opinion? 3-4 Divisions per base? Plus 4-6 tank battalions and massive amount of engineers? Looking at what I have and will get autumn 44 looks like a possible target date.

Time to try and get some sleep!

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Post #: 687
RE: 1944! - 2/19/2013 8:44:47 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8625
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Ah, head is swimming right now. Decided to take an hour break and spend some time with the family. Only to discover the family is fast asleep!

Bullwinkle,

Your musings are certainly welcome! Especially so since you are one of only two people that I know of that has played a game to completion! I may misinterpret you so please correct me if Iīm wrong. But I think you are saying that the Marianas are essential and a much better target then the Bonins. I see your reasoning. Bonins require shock attacks on landings and stacking have stacking limits. Things not so good for the attacker. Capturing the Marianas would threaten the HI and force Erik to divert substantial forces to cover his industry.

What kind of forces would be needed to secure 2 bases in your opinion? 3-4 Divisions per base? Plus 4-6 tank battalions and massive amount of engineers? Looking at what I have and will get autumn 44 looks like a possible target date.

Time to try and get some sleep!


I finished three. AI games, but I've palyed with the full range of Allied toys. Took one to April 1946 just to see jets.

I'm saying I don't think you have to dink around with the DEI just because everybody else does. Or the PI, although it has great leverage too, especialy if you want Formosa to bomb from.

I like the Marianas because it's like Goldilocks--not too close, not too far. It has reinforcing air bases. This works for him as you invade--which is why you need some carriers--but it swings your way as you take one, and then two, AFs. Tinian can be taken faster, and has a good AF for Corsairs to take down the others. Bring lots and lots in by Air Transport and pretty quickly the one-replace-per-week rule will erode his air effort. Take Tinian and get some AKEs anchored, bring in the Bombarment groups and start smashing Guam and Saipan. There's a reason Tojo fell after the Marianas did--they were linchpins. And a reason the IJN shot the carrier air wad at the Turkey Shoot. The Marianas are the game.

Never understood why AE players almost never take them. Maybe because the amphib op is Ph.D. level and takes many months to get in train.

The Bonins are less useful to me, but not worthless. The game doesn't model the air crew safe haven reasons for Iwo Jima. Beyond that they're good refueling and rearming sites, and decent bases. But Iwo at Forts 6 with three divisions, whiich is what the AI put there I think, ate up over seven divisions in the landing force and held. I just think there are better places to go with that time and effort.

Doing a two-prong with the PI as history presents isn't terrible. Manila is an amazing late war base for the Allies--locaiton, locaiton, location. A very nice shipyard. And huge air bases at Clark and Aparri, right astride whatever he has left in terms of convoys. You can base fifty subs out of Manila and not break a sweat.

But taking the Marianas announces to Japan that things just changed for him. Kamis move to the forefront. Banking HI is critical. Aircraft production and model ratios matter more. He has to decide if he wants to pull troops home before the sea lanes are forever closed. Indo-China and Burma might become expendable, which makes a romp through to the western China border possible. China then gets in a wave of supply and those huge Chinese corps have ammo for a change.

Anyway, if you're bored with the game the Marianas will require total dedication and concentration for a good part of a game year. You have to have the ships you need in the right places, and you have to have monumental supply and fuel dumps prepped. IMO that campaign, if Japan can still fight back, is the best AE can be.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 2/19/2013 8:51:43 PM >


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RE: 1944! - 2/20/2013 6:41:12 AM   
BBfanboy


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+1 Bullwinkle!
I played the Marianas scenario twice, and even with the required forces pre-prepped for your targets it is a bear to efficiently lift them in sequence to the landings - the same ships have to be used for several landings so there is no time for dallying.
My preferred sequence was Tinian-Guam-Saipan, because the naval fortress at Saipan requires as much bombing/bombarding as possible before landing. I even took Pagan in one of the games - it was useful for fighter cover and bombing Saipan, but using the ships for that invasion made me miss the game end deadline for taking Saipan. After battling the mines and fortress guns and getting a huge force on Saipan, the came ended before the Deliberate Attack could be ordered. Talk about combatus interruptus!

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I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

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Post #: 689
RE: 1944! - 2/20/2013 2:26:18 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

+1 Bullwinkle!
I played the Marianas scenario twice, and even with the required forces pre-prepped for your targets it is a bear to efficiently lift them in sequence to the landings - the same ships have to be used for several landings so there is no time for dallying.
My preferred sequence was Tinian-Guam-Saipan, because the naval fortress at Saipan requires as much bombing/bombarding as possible before landing. I even took Pagan in one of the games - it was useful for fighter cover and bombing Saipan, but using the ships for that invasion made me miss the game end deadline for taking Saipan. After battling the mines and fortress guns and getting a huge force on Saipan, the came ended before the Deliberate Attack could be ordered. Talk about combatus interruptus!


I played the stand-alone scenario too, and it was fun and a very good primer on the op. But in it everything starts shiny and new. When I did the Marianas in a GC I didn't have the optimal, historical OOB, some of my ships were limping, etc.

The biggest lesson is, as you say, don't do Saipan first. I did and lost 70 APA/LSD/LST sunk or sinking.

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