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RE: Port Moresby invaded!

 
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RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/6/2013 2:49:57 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Ah, so both have to be prepped. I have a Corp HQ prepping for Buna with 66% prep. Do you think its worth starting to prep a command HQ for it too? That would give me 88 prep on the Corps HQ and 22 on the Command HQ. Thats roughly 20% chance of success?


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RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/6/2013 3:47:20 PM   
ny59giants


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Yes, unless that Command HQ will start prepping for another base that also has an Army/Corp HQ prepping for the same one. That 1 in 5 could change to 1 in 3 if the base holds for a week or more.

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RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/6/2013 5:56:38 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Yes, unless that Command HQ will start prepping for another base that also has an Army/Corp HQ prepping for the same one. That 1 in 5 could change to 1 in 3 if the base holds for a week or more.


I followed your advice. I prepped one for Milne and one for Buna!


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Post #: 453
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/6/2013 6:03:43 PM   
JocMeister

 

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I did something very, very risky this turn...If it works I have a chance of nailing 120 fighters on the ground and closing Eriks second biggest AF is SOPAC. If it doesnt Ill probably loose 4 CAs. Fingers crossed!

I have had a very hard time catching any of Eriks planes on the ground. If I close an AF and it lists 40 planes on the ground its ALWAYS empty the following day when I return.

I have a theory why. I think he keeps fragments around and when I bomb an AF closing it he simply disbands the group on the AF which then returns to the pools and the fragment becomes the parent and voila. The group have escaped. Im not sure Im very happy if this is indeed what he does.

Or he could simply fly out what can fly and then disband the rest which returns to the pools. Kosher?

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Post #: 454
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/6/2013 6:47:40 PM   
BBfanboy


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Kosher - NO! But unless the base is a significant size or has an Air HQ nearby, I think disbanding destroys the planes? Look at some of your own and notice all the red text on the disband order.
Another possibility is that he keeps a ship or two in port to pull out damaged aircraft. They load instantly so it would not take long and the ship would be about six-ten hexes away from the airfield before your next day's air attacks.
Final possibility is that the airfield isn't totally closed - the recon of the damage is shows airfield facilities damage, not runway damage. The latter is repaired first.

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RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/7/2013 7:22:18 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Short update

The surprise didnt work very well. Erik anticipated my move and revealed three BBs that smashed into to my CA TF before they reach their destination. Mutsu, Huyga and Nago just smashed Canberra, Hawkins, Salt Lake City and Northampton. All four were sunk outright with virtually no damage to the BBs. A bit disappointing. I also lost some 20 P47s over Woodlark and a good amount of 2Es. All this for nothing. Not a very good turn.

Only positive thing is my Fletchers really smashed up his DDs. Lost one Fletcher though. Good thing I have plenty!

Ah well. To tired to do the turn or do a proper update. Ida has decided to stop sleeping at night and work was horrible today. Time to try and get some sleep!

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RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/7/2013 8:14:28 PM   
BBfanboy


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I wonder if Ida knows she shares the name with an annoying little Japanese level bomber ... she's harassing you to get you to make mistakes!

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Post #: 457
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/8/2013 4:02:14 PM   
JocMeister

 

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1st -5th December -43

Not the best turns for the allies as indicated in my short update.

Port Moresby Area

My little plan to close Woodlark with naval bombardment and then strike from the air failed miserable. Erik anticipated my move and had a BB TF on intercept. Result were not good.

quote:

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 2
BB Hyuga
DD Takanami
DD Naganami, Shell hits 1
DD Onami
DD Fujinami, Shell hits 3
DD Kiyonami, Shell hits 2
DD Arashi, Shell hits 1
DD Michishio


Allied Ships
CA Northampton, Shell hits 8, and is sunk
CA Salt Lake City, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CA Canberra
CA Hawkins, Shell hits 12, and is sunk
DD Bush
DD Fullam, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Harrison
DD Hutchins
DD Kidd
DD Kimberly
DD Murray
DD Pringle


During the day his TF caught up with the retreating allied fleet.

quote:

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Shell hits 4
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 3
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 8
DD Takanami, Shell hits 29, and is sunk
DD Naganami, Shell hits 5, heavy fires
DD Onami, Shell hits 4, heavy fires
DD Fujinami, Shell hits 16, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Kiyonami, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Arashi, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
DD Michishio, Shell hits 2, on fire


Allied Ships
CA Canberra, Shell hits 11, and is sunk
DD Bush, Shell hits 1
DD Fullam, Shell hits 11, and is sunk
DD Harrison, Shell hits 3
DD Hutchins
DD Kidd
DD Kimberly, Shell hits 1
DD Murray, Shell hits 3
DD Pringle, Shell hits 1



Once again the Fletchers proved more then a match for the Japanese DDs. We also had a big air battle over Woodlark which did not end very well for the Allied side. I decided to send in the P47s on sweep despite having almost 20 in fatigue. It cost me... See screenshot for losses.

Loosing the 4 CAs is a bit annoying. Especially since they went down so easy. I now have to make some plans to deal with his BBs. I have the Alabama, PoW, Massachusetts and Indiana ready in 8 days. One option is to try and engage his BB with them. The other option would be to form 12 ship Fletcher TFs and try and nail his DDs to the point when he cant escort the BBs and have to withdraw. I might even get lucky with a TT or two... What do you guys think? Im not sure I can afford to loose a single BB at this point. Loosing a few Fletchers are much more affordable.

Cant really land at Milne without removing the threat. Then again I dont have to land...just make Erik belive I will land...might prove an opportunity to nail his BBs.

I think this will also be a good opportunity to form CAP traps for his bombers from Rabaul.

CENTPAC

Bombardment of Canton Island will commence tomorrow. I will bombard tomorrow and the day after that the troops will land. Fingers crossed this respite of 6 days havnt let his troops recover too much.

Burma

Erik has withdrawn into Rangoon with his air force. He now has 500 Fighters there. Pretty impressive! Im not going to sweep that but force Erik to LRCAP his troops/bases and then Sweep that instead.

A lot of troops are heading towards Rangoon via sea. Of course despite 20+ subs trying to intercept I get no shots off at the transports. Wish my subs were half as effective as Eriks. I loose 5 subs over 2 days. Did I mention I havnt been able to sink a single Jap sub around Canton Island despite 6 ASW TFs working in the area...

I also captured Ramree Island. With some luck Erik might try a bombardment here. I have all the Indian CD guns here more or less. Mines are in place and PT boats will arrive in two days.

Here is the screen of the carnage!






Attachment (1)

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RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/8/2013 4:03:18 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I wonder if Ida knows she shares the name with an annoying little Japanese level bomber ... she's harassing you to get you to make mistakes!



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RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/8/2013 4:59:32 PM   
BBfanboy


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I think using DDs [of any breed with 5" guns] is good at this point in the war - they have radar and working torps, and they have trained in night battle tactics [see the Battle of Cape St. George for proof]. They are also harder for bombers to hit and can put up good AA, so they could bait your CAP traps. Use Fletchers if you got 'em, but don't rule out the Bensons with their 16 torp tubes! They didn't remove any during the AA/ASW upgrades, did they?

Twelve is too many in a single TF, though. Although the book says no penalty in battle with 15 or fewer, I have found that anything over 10 results in greater risk of collision and several of the TF never getting into the battles before they end. I think eight is ideal.

Re: the Canton subs, DL is important for getting your ASW onto the sub. Use lots of Nav Search aircraft to raise the DL if you can. Have you checked the naval skills of your TF commanders? If they are lower than the sub skipper's skill, chances of outfoxing him are not good.

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RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/8/2013 5:03:20 PM   
witpqs


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I think you are right. The '15' reference is specifically about AA.

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RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/10/2013 7:08:35 PM   
JocMeister

 

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6th-9th December -43

Port Moresby Area

Not much happening. Keeping Milne Bay busy by trying to bomb away some supply while PM is being built up. First wave will land at Milne before the year is over.

Burma

Some interesting things. True to his nature Erik cant sit still and launch to bombings. He tried to hit my armor around Prome using Nicks on low altitude attack. That didnt work very well for him. I do have a lot of AA with me! Some 50 Nicks are lost. On the 8th he again struck with his bombers but this time at my Northern force. He lost some 30 bombers without any discernible results.

I have been doing some test bombings in the area and came up with the following conclusion. Erik wont be able to hold any hex that is in the clear. This is from the same day on the same base. Possible with high level forts. Clear hex...

quote:

Japanese ground losses:
1184 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 60 disabled
Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 95 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 27 (1 destroyed, 26 disabled)

Japanese ground losses:
341 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 22 disabled

Japanese ground losses:
172 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


That is almost 1700 casualties on a single day. Pretty amazing! I have 2500 more AV moving down from Akyab. Havnt decided yet if I should wait for them or not. Currently waitng for the US ID that captured Ramree Island to catch up and secure the flank before moving again. Supply is looking good and I havnt had to use the transports for supply runs yet.

Erik sent a 4 DD TF to Ramree that roughed up my PTs. Dont think I will be able to catch them but I sent a strong CA force to Akyab in case he hangs around. Unfortunately I also messed up the settings for my TBs so they didnt take off. Fixed it now but I doubt he will hang around one day more. Have to be careful of a CAP trap too as Im pretty close to Rangoon.

OZ

Troops finally reached Geraldtown. Set them on strat mode and sent them to Alice. Soon I will start pushing for Darwin. Hopefully the supply will hold this time! Transports will help out this time.

CENTPAC

Finally captured Canton Island! Erik pulled out in the last second so only 600 troops dead. I did manage to get some of his Mavis as they tried pulling out the last.

Baker is next... But first I need to repair up and reshuffle a bit. I put off all TBs from the CVEs before Canton. Im thinking about loading up perhaps 4-6 of them with DB/TBs to help the CVs with the strikes. Ive lost count on how many CVEs I have already. I think its closing on 20. So I can certainly spare a few for strike missions instead. What do you guys think?

Another CV arrives in 5 days too!





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 1/10/2013 7:16:03 PM >

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RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/10/2013 10:32:32 PM   
DOCUP


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Nice, work with the AA.  I'm a little late but agree with sending in the DDs to attrit his DDs.

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Post #: 463
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/11/2013 3:52:55 AM   
BBfanboy


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A couple of other AARs have tried using the CVEs in a strike role with air cover from LBA or nearby CVs. It did not go well - Japanese bombers always managed to get through and the weak AA plus slow speed plus vulnerable size made them dead meat. I think they would be OK attacking an island where Japanese LBA could not strike, but I would hesitate to put them up against LBA or carrier based opposition.
If you keep some strike aircraft aboard, use them primarily for ASW work and attacks on any fast transports he sends to rescue/resupply at isolated islands. You can afford to lose some CVEs on occasion, but not a bunch of them every month.

_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

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Post #: 464
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/11/2013 6:16:07 AM   
JocMeister

 

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My thinking was is to put about 4 CVEs loaded with TBs together with rest of the CVEs covering my landings. That would mean a little bit over 100 extra 1000 pound bombs on the invasion target. But I agree that this cant be done against LBA. I lost 6 CVEs earlier. They really go boom fast...

I counted up the CVEs and have 18. If I use 12 for CAP and 4 for strikes I still have about 324 Hellcats on CAP over the invasion target. That should be enough in CENTPAC unless he brings KB in which case I will have to run for cover anyway. Im going to be very, very short on BBs in CENTPAC for the rest of the war. I figured this might be a good solution to the problem? From my invasion of Canton it seems like aerial strikes are really powerful even if they are not 4Es!

quote:

Morning Air attack on 52nd Naval Guard Unit, at 153,143 (Canton Island)

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes


Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 13
F6F-3 Hellcat x 154
SBD-5 Dauntless x 93
TBF-1 Avenger x 85


Allied aircraft losses
SBD-5 Dauntless: 1 damaged
TBF-1 Avenger: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
275 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 27 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 19 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 21 (2 destroyed, 19 disabled)


That is almost twice the numbers from the two BBs!

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Post #: 465
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/11/2013 6:33:07 AM   
JocMeister

 

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10th December -43

I finally had some luck! Im going to write it down as tactical genius though...

Burma

Big naval battle outside Akyab! Turns out that CA force I sent to Akyab was still set to full speed after my bombardment of Ramree Island. Very lucky thing that! Looks like he tried to nail my TFs unloading supplies!

quote:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Akyab at 54,45, Range 7,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Hiei
CA Takao, Shell hits 7, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Kinugasa, Shell hits 3, on fire
CL Nagara, Shell hits 13, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Asashio
DD Arashio, Shell hits 2
DD Umikaze, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Hibiki
DD Usugumo
DD Shirakumo, Shell hits 1
DD Yugiri, Shell hits 1


Allied Ships
CA Shropshire, Shell hits 4, on fire
CA Dorsetshire, Shell hits 2
CA Sussex, Shell hits 1
CA Suffolk, Shell hits 2
CA Exeter, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Racehorse
DD Rapid
DD Redoubt, Shell hits 1
DD Relentless, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Roebuck, Shell hits 1
DD Rotherham, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk


Was not expecting that! Amazed how well the Brit CAs did. I was expecting another massive defeat. I think one of the deciding factors was that Hiei only fired a single salvo throughout the whole battle.

quote:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Akyab at 54,45, Range 7,000 Yards

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
Walrus II: 1 destroyed
Seagull V: 2 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Hiei, Shell hits 1
CA Kinugasa, Shell hits 14, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Asashio
DD Arashio, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Hibiki
DD Usugumo, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Shirakumo, Shell hits 1


Allied Ships
CA Shropshire, Shell hits 17, and is sunk
CA Dorsetshire, Shell hits 3, on fire
CA Sussex
CA Suffolk
CA Exeter, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Racehorse, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Rapid, Shell hits 2, heavy fires
DD Redoubt, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Relentless, Shell hits 3, heavy fires
DD Roebuck, Shell hits 1



Hiei was a lot more active in this engagement and straddled Shropshire with 7 hits from the 36cm guns. My remaining ships are all in decent shape but need to repair up minor damage.

Eriks little adventure with the DDs striking at the PT boats at Ramree yesterday really backfired today. With the settings corrected the TBs take off.

quote:


DD Umikaze, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Shirakumo, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Hibiki, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk


My subs also sprang into action!

quote:

Sub attack near Prome at 53,50

Japanese Ships
DD Yugiri, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Trusty



SS Trusty launches 2 torpedoes at DD Yugiri
Trusty diving deep ....
Sub escapes detection


quote:

Sub attack near Ramree Island at 53,48

Japanese Ships
DD Usugumo, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Shirakumo


Allied Ships
SS Trespasser


If he hadnt attacked the PT boats my TBs would still have been grounded due to faulty settings. To sum it up I lost 2 CAs and a DD for 2 CAs, 1CL and 4DDs (possible 6). Pretty happy with that!

Erik indicated in his mail he was more concerned about DD losses then the 2 CAs and the CL. Can he starting to be getting short on DDs? Going through the sunk list I see some 35-40 DDs lost so far. Is that something of a problem for him?

Erik tried some more bombings of my troops today and lost some 15 bombers for no effect. Im going to start working over Prome next turn. This will hopefully force him to start LRCAPing. I decided to not wait for the additional troops coming down from Akyab. Having problems getting supply to Ramree. Started flying in some. If I can get the AF up it should help.

Elsewhere

Quiet...

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 1/11/2013 7:36:07 AM >

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RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/11/2013 12:26:39 PM   
BBfanboy


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Congratulations! You did very well in that exchange, and he will not be as blas about the CA/CL losses as he pretends. More like:

Speed seems to play a big part in surface combat calculations, both in chances of getting hit and ability for the faster force to choose range and targets. In the first action the British at full speed were able to run out of Hiei's way and engage the faster part of his force. After Shropshire got hit and set afire, she likely slowed down enough to become an easy, well lit target for the second engagement. The British were likely running out of ammo in that one or they might have done even better.

Re: DDs, I think he only has about 160 or so all game, and about 40 of them are old and small - unsuitable for a SCTF. You can tell him though that you helped with his DD shortage by giving them fewer cruisers to escort.

_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 467
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/11/2013 3:27:16 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Burma

Some help and advice here would be welcome. Im terrified of making a mistake here. Ive put all my eggs in this basket and a failure here probably means mostly a stalemate for the rest of the game as 80% of my land forces are here.

Ive spent the last turns trying some stuff out and getting a feel for what works and what doesnt. As usual with the land war in AE I think this will end up with the same old tactics: Pile as much as possible in one hex. I have a lot of stuff but so does Erik. I came up with the following idea:

I need Prome in order to move on Rangoon. Im not sure how to best go at it. Im thinking of crossing the river E or NE of Prome and then veer back. If I occupy the Prome hex can I then move into the hex from the river NW (from the direction of Ramree Island without triggering a shock attack? I seem to recall reading something about 1/3 of the AV can move across the river without triggering the shock attack? But is that true even if the crossing is taking place from a "new" direction?

Im not even sure this is doable? Looks like Erik is railing everything and everyone to the hexes. Everyone tells me the Allied AV is worth twice the Jap AV. Not sure that applies when shock attacking across a river!? If I fail the crossing I will be very vulnerable on the other side of the river. Erik will then just rail everyone and their grandmother to the hex and pile on my troops and I will be stuck forever. Thoughts are welcome!

I learned some things over the last few days. Allied bombers are powerful if used in the clear hexes. This led me to believe I can take on Prome. Thanks to the AA I brought with me I dont need to CAP my troops. Eriks bomber has yet to make an impact that I can see. And he also needs to escort them. I hope I can force him to LRCAP some of his troops in order for me to sweep his LRCAP.

Burma scares me to no end. Erik just have sooo much here. Last count I summed it up to 340.000 troops. Im not even sure I can make a dent in this!

Here is a screen of the situation:






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 468
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/11/2013 3:29:33 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Congratulations! You did very well in that exchange, and he will not be as blas about the CA/CL losses as he pretends. More like:

Speed seems to play a big part in surface combat calculations, both in chances of getting hit and ability for the faster force to choose range and targets. In the first action the British at full speed were able to run out of Hiei's way and engage the faster part of his force. After Shropshire got hit and set afire, she likely slowed down enough to become an easy, well lit target for the second engagement. The British were likely running out of ammo in that one or they might have done even better.

Re: DDs, I think he only has about 160 or so all game, and about 40 of them are old and small - unsuitable for a SCTF. You can tell him though that you helped with his DD shortage by giving them fewer cruisers to escort.


Thank you! Very pleasantly surprised by the result!

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 469
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/12/2013 2:27:44 AM   
BBfanboy


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Prome should only be attacked from the landward side, so cross the river with your stack to the NE of Prome and then come back on it. I presume your 5600AV runs more than the 39,000 troops he has in there? If you do try take Prome and he has forts 4+, it will be a long grind. Make sure you have leaders with high Land skills but not crazy aggressive. No shock attacks until forts are down to two or less and his troops are shell shocked.

Air supremacy is a must to protect your troops and attrit his. At the same time the big stack is moving on Prome, put 43rd US ID in the hex SW of Prome as a blocking force only. Do not cross the river.

I am not sure what else he has between Prome and Mandalay, but if it is not enough to cut your rear communications you could consider bypassing Prome and moving straight down to Rangoon or Pegu. Just leave a blocking force at Prome. Factor into your estimates whether the opposition is lightly-equipped Thai and NGC Chinese units [mediocre firepower, leadership and morale] or the real IJA McCoy.

The other option is to back away from having all your eggs in one basket and pull out some units to attack elsewhere. Even shifting the axis of your attack to Mandalay/Lashio should be considered if you are not sure you can take on Prome.



_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

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Post #: 470
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/12/2013 2:47:12 AM   
witpqs


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Answering your question directly: although I have not yet seen this detail in play, Michael was clear that the 1/3 AV had to have crossed the same hex side. I just don't know how much is stored about who crossed what hex side when, but that's basically what he wrote.

Yeah, BBfanboy is right - Prome looks like a beast best approached from the same side of the river. The good news is that it is open terrain and even for a river crossing you could blast the defenders from the air to soften them up. But unless you have a VERY strong force then it might be best to cross the river just below Magwe. There your troops will cross onto open terrain where defenders can also be quite effectively bombarded from the air.

Closer to Prome, defenders get good terrain bonuses in the jungle or forest. Crossing there is less than ideal.

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RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/12/2013 6:43:36 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Hey guys. Thanks for the input! This Burma situation makes me feel like Im on a fancy dinner...but without pants!

Glad to hear you both came to the same conclusion as I did. There are probably some Thai forces mixed in the bunch but he has some quality troops. I think most of it is are regular troops. I cant really bypass Prome or I will be cut off. Looks like Erik is pulling everything south. Have to be very careful not to be cut off when those forces come crashing down.

wipqs, good info! Thank you. A followup question on that. Will supply flow to a hex from a direction that the enemy controls? IE: Will supply flow to Prome from Ramree through the NW hexside even if I have approached Prome from the west? If not I have to leave a strong blocking force E of Prome. That would probably kill any chances of taking Prome itself!

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 472
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/12/2013 7:07:10 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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Just found an old thread about it. Not encouraging read...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred
Think of the issue along these lines.

1. Each hex has six hexsides. These hexsides are inner doors to the hex which is in the middle of all the six hexsides. In turn each of the six inner door hexsides also act as a single outer door to a separate hex on the border.

2. An unoccupied hex has neutral inner door hexsides. The inner door hexsides are not coloured green or red.

3. When a hex is occupied all six inner door hexsides automatically become owned by the side which first arrived in the hex.

4. When a unit moves into an occupied hex it turns the inner door hexside through which it entered to its ownership colour. However once the unit moves out of the hex all six inner door hexsides revert automatically to the colour of the side which remains in the hex.

5. A unit which is is defeated in battle and is forced to retreat, will only do so if:

(a) it has an inner door hexside coloured friendly (red for Japan, green for Allied), and
(b) there is no enemy unit present in the hex on the other side of the outer door hexside the retreating unit would pass through

To make things easy, overland supply flow follows the same rules.

Alfred


So by moving into Prome from E supply will have to flow the same way. That changes quite a bit. Erik could then cut off my supply by occupying the hex E of Prome. With the amount of troops Erik has at his disposal I would probably have to leave a substantial force in that hex. Say 2000AV? That would only leave 3200 AV for Prome. Would that be enough? He surely has level minimum of level 5-6 forts. Im pretty confident I could gain air superiority over Prome. At least once Ramree Island is operational and I can sweep from there.

Its tempting to bypass Prome and go directly for Bessain/Rangoon but that is a long and narrow supply path that Erik could probably cut of quite easily! Anyone have any ideas? Feel free to present them! Im at a loss what to do! As usual!

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Post #: 473
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/12/2013 2:33:03 PM   
BBfanboy


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If you do head directly down to Bassien and Rangoon, bring up the troops at Akyab and 43rd ID to block the roads around Prome. You really need some tanks to be your fast mobile response to any move from the Mandalay/Magwe area to cut your supply path. You will also need a lot of Recon to watch his troop stacks and paths towards your supply.

_____________________________

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Post #: 474
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/12/2013 2:37:33 PM   
witpqs


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From: Argleton
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First a general comment on supply movement. Alfred is right, and here is a quick way to see it. Use the 'w' hotkey. You will see the letters 'A' and 'J' appears in hexes that are "owned" by one side or the other. Do not be misled, as the 'A' and 'J' have nothing to do with supply movement. You will also see hex sides turn either green or red. Upon closer inspection you will notice where friendly & enemy units are in adjacent hexes that the hex side between them is bi-color: red on the IJ side and green on the Allied side. That is a good illustration of the "inner doors" that Alfred spoke of. See my AAR for various pics with the 'w' key toggled on.

It's very simple visually. Toggle on the 'w' key. Your supply can only flow across hex sides where there is no enemy ownership of either door. Of course unoccupied hexes have all six sides ('doors') owned by nobody, so either side supply can pass them. And, correspondingly, enemy supply can only flow across hex sides where you own neither door.

That is where supply is allowed to flow, which is only a small part of the supply equation. One other part is the length of the supply route. The shorter it is, the more days per week supply can flow. The longer it is, the more supply wastage during supply movement.

A long time ago one of the developers wrote a long post about supply movement. I cut and pasted it into a txt file and I am attaching that file. A lot of patches have come since then, so it might not be 100% accurate anymore, so bear that in mind. The part about length of supply route versus days per week that supply flows are still valid. You need to refer to the terrain effects charts in the manual and see the column labeled 'Supply Cost' or something similar.

Here is part of that text file:
quote:


How far a base can receive supplies is determined by tracing a supply cost path starting value used is 100 just like witp. There are three different ranges used throughout each week 89 which is very short range and happens 4 times a week, 49 which is medium range and happens twice a week and 10 which is long range which happens once per week. These values are the minimum required trace value from sending base to receiving base and the trace value must be equal to or greater than this to receive supplies so you may notice that some bases only get supplies 3 times or in some cases once per week.

Short range is trace value of 89 - 100 and is used 4 times per week.
Medium range is trace value 49 - 100 and is used 2 times per week.
Long range is trace value 10 - 100 and is used 1 time per week.


Note that "base" also works for "unit".

And, the pulls are cumulative. That is, a unit or base at short range (from a base that can provide supply) gets a short range pull 4 days per week, a medium range pull 2 times per week, and a long range pull 1 day per week for a total that comes to 7 days per week. At medium range you get a total of 3 times per week, and at long range a total of 1 time per week.

Of course the sending base has to have supply to send, which Akyab and the various bases along the India-Burma border often do not have!

Now the specific comments. Pour supply into Akyab. After you take Prome be sure to slowly lower the supply draw button at Akyab (and turn of supply stockpiling) so that supply will be allowed to flow to Prome. Once you have a lot of troops in Prome, more than he can push out, you can have a small or smallish unit sacrifice itself by making the river crossing, thus opening both doors on that hex side.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by witpqs -- 1/12/2013 2:38:30 PM >


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Post #: 475
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/12/2013 2:38:43 PM   
witpqs


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Here is that terrain chart from the manual (I cut out the page so I can call it up more quickly when needed).




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 476
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/12/2013 2:41:27 PM   
witpqs


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Explaining the supply route cost a little more, you start with 100, then subtract the value of each hex that the supply path would pass through. Compare the result to the three categories give (short = 89 to 100, etc).

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RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/12/2013 8:37:33 PM   
JocMeister

 

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witpqs, That is excellent stuff! Going by this Im not so sure what Im trying to do is doable. I have some time to decide though. Some 10 turns left before I actually cross. Its just going to be to easy for Erik to cut me off from supply. And once he does that he actually has a good shot at killing my stack off! Im getting a lot of movement in central Burma. Looks like Erik is bringing everything south to stop my crossing. He is bombing my stack. So far its ineffectual but it does eat supply.

I have 110.000 supply at Akyab and dropping more off by sea as fast as I can!

Im thinking perhaps I should scrap this for now and move back towards Ramree Island. Im having problems in the air due to the long distances. Once Ramree is build up I can strike at Rangoon itself. Im just not feeling confident. A lot depends on how much Erik will move in to block me with. How much more power does my allied forces actually pack? I have:

2 OZ IDs
2 Indian IDs
2 British IDs
3 US IDs
900 AV worth of armor.

Im going to fire up intel monkey tomorrow and see if I can get a more accurate fix on what he has in the area. I know of at least 4 IDs + 2 Tank division. Some 300.000 troops in total.

It also might be a better idea to move for Bessain instead. I can use the 2000 AV coming from Akyab to secure the supply line... decisions decision...Perhaps some sleep will help shed some light!

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Post #: 478
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/13/2013 8:43:21 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 5235
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From: Sweden
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11th - 14th December -43

11th and 12th were pretty uneventful turns but on the 14th fireworks set off again. Some MAJOR developments in Burma...

Burma

Erik has abandoned Magwe! My Northern stack arrives next turn. I guess he realized too that it would be impossible for him to defend without air superiority. Ive attached a screen of Burma. We also had a big air battle over his stack between Ramree and Prome. I have no idea why he moved that stack there as it doesnt effect the supply flow from Akyab from what I can tell? 43rd ID arrives in three turns and unless he is out be then he is toast. Its just a tank RGT.

The air losses from the day clearly highlight the need for me to force him to LRCAP his bases and troops. He had LRCAP up over the Tank RGT and my sweeps could engage at an advantage. 113 fighters killed for the price of 5 P47 and 8 Corsairs. Only two pilots lost. All P47 losses were from the same squadron. No idea why it did so poorly against just 17 Tojos.

Im still unsure about taking on Prome. I will let the troops continue their move for now. But if Erik is abandoning central Burma and rail the 100.000 troops to the hex I wont risk a crossing. Also looks like the flak has done its work as Erik shifted bombings to the Northern stack. They are in the clear and in move mode and paid the price. A BDE is bumped to combat mode and suffers 22 disruption.

What to do in Burma?

I will take the time to think through what to do in Burma. If he indeed is withdrawing south it might be prudent to hurry up. But I dont want to risk it all in a single river crossing. I do have an additional 3 Divisions and 2 Chinese Corps on their way. It might be better to wait for them and chose a more secure route. Im still struggling with supply at Ramree Island really slowing the building of the AF.

Once I get Ramree operational it should help with supply and give me an opportunity to strike at Rangoon itself. Erik already have 28.000 men and 8 units in place to oppose the landing. He will probably get a lot more into the hex by the time my troops do the actual crossing. Problem here is that I have zero experience with this. I dont have a clue what a crossing like this means or what to be expected. Is it safe? Is it crazy to try? Will my troops get mauled, then counter attacked and destroyed?

Im leaning more and more towards cancelling the crossing and take a safer approach. Thought?


Port Moresby area

I finally get to be a bit creative and succeeds! I sent a 6 Fletcher TF to Tulagi over night to try and catch a TF there. Turns out it was probably loading a BF!

quote:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
PB Aso Maru #3, Shell hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
PB Chitose Maru, Shell hits 11, heavy fires, heavy damage
PB Choko Maru #2, Shell hits 25, heavy fires, heavy damage
PB Fukui Maru, Shell hits 23, and is sunk
xAK Toyooka Maru, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Tuyama Maru, Shell hits 13, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Teihoku Maru, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Tarayasu Maru, Shell hits 15, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Yasukawa Maru, Shell hits 16, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Terukawa Maru, Shell hits 14, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk


Allied Ships
DD Brownson
DD Radford, Shell hits 2
DD Saufley
DD Spence
DD Taylor
DD Thatcher

Japanese ground losses:
1652 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 293 destroyed, 207 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 219 (163 destroyed, 56 disabled)
Vehicles lost 51 (31 destroyed, 20 disabled)


That felt good! Erik will now have to be a lot more careful. Being able to go 11 hexes at full speed is really useful! The SYS damage wasnt too bad. All single digits.

In two days PoW will be repaired and my Fast BB TF ready for action again. Last turn I spotted a CA/BB TF lurking at Munda. So Erik has kept them around. Any landing at Milne Bay will be very dangerous. Proximity of PM really helps though. Ill see if I can come up with any kind of solution to this. Should I seek battle with my BBs? Im reluctant as I cant afford the losses. I need the fast BBs for bombardment runs. Fletchers though...

CENTPAC

Most of the fleet arrives at PH for repairs and upgrades. I seem to have a problem re sizing some of the CVL squadrons though? They are set to re size to 24 in November 43 but only 2 have made the actual re size? Anyone knows why? Its a really important re size as it doubles the fighters on the CVLs!

I also made the decision to attack Baker Island too. I dont need it and its a waste of time. But I will continue to use this opportunity for practice. Who knows, the practice might pay off in the long run!

OZ

Shifting forces for the Darwin assault. Should happen sometime during 2/44.





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 479
RE: Port Moresby liberated!! - 1/13/2013 11:57:59 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 5235
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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Milne Bay

Been using Intel Monkey and manually going through the combat reports of Milne Bay. From the looks of it he doesnt have a division in place but rather two garrison units and some AA units. Perhaps this one wont be as tough as PM was...

Bombing from the air is showing promise with some 100-120 losses per day lately. AA has almost died of completely indicating perhaps supply shortage? But before I land I need to deal with his bombers and BBs... Time to set up a CAP trap over Milne I think. Using 4 older DDs and then a massive LRCAP from PM I should be able to knock out a good portion of his bombers. Is this considered valid or is something like this to be frowned upon?

BBs will be harder to deal with. A feint to draw them to Milne might be in order. If I meet his BBs with some Fletchers I might be lucky. At worst I might be able to knock out a few more of his DDs! I did spot his TF again. This time with two "CVs" listing 10 AUX planes... very strange.

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 1/13/2013 12:00:01 PM >

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