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RE: Port Moresby invaded!

 
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RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/3/2013 8:11:06 PM   
Encircled


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Tough luck that

Have you tried having your carrier T/F always following an ASW patrol at 0 hexes?

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 421
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/3/2013 8:18:32 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dora09


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

There are ~4,000 more troops the second day. If you have the unit list for the second day you can compare them and see who showed up late to the party.

As far as adjusted AV goes, if the attacker was less robust the second day (say, disruption and so on) then fewer defender squads would get suppressed by the attackers' firepower. That could account for a defender's adjusted AV being higher the second day.


But if what you are saying above is true, wouldn't the attackers adjusted AV be lowered as well? When the attacker has problems (supply, disruption etc.) it is their adjusted AV that gets takes the hit, that makes sense and is expected and observed in games with regularity. The ones that have vexed me are those where the defender takes relatively substantial damage the first day and then gets a massive boost in adjusted AV the next (without the introduction of new troops (same raw AV). I don't want to highjack this AAR but when I have seen this, my second day (attacker) adjusted AV actually increased slightly but the defende's adjusted AV got a massive jump. It has happened twice in my game at seemingly random times.

He could have brought more stuff that does not have raw AV to the party - arty and HQs, support troops (to truck ammo to the front lines), etc.
Perhaps the game also has a "surprise attack" chance where one side can occasionally catch the other side napping?


_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

(in reply to Dora09)
Post #: 422
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/3/2013 8:20:46 PM   
BBfanboy


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Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dora09

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

There are ~4,000 more troops the second day. If you have the unit list for the second day you can compare them and see who showed up late to the party.

As far as adjusted AV goes, if the attacker was less robust the second day (say, disruption and so on) then fewer defender squads would get suppressed by the attackers' firepower. That could account for a defender's adjusted AV being higher the second day.


But if what you are saying above is true, wouldn't the attackers adjusted AV be lowered as well? When the attacker has problems (supply, disruption etc.) it is their adjusted AV that gets takes the hit, that makes sense and is expected and observed in games with regularity. The ones that have vexed me are those where the defender takes relatively substantial damage the first day and then gets a massive boost in adjusted AV the next (without the introduction of new troops (same raw AV). I don't want to highjack this AAR but when I have seen this, my second day (attacker) adjusted AV actually increased slightly but the defende's adjusted AV got a massive jump. It has happened twice in my game at seemingly random times.

Yes, but... notice the the attacker's unadjusted AV was also higher the second day. Why?

JocM explained that in one of his posts:

"Ah, the top one is the second attack. The one under is the first one. I added it for comparison! "

_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 423
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/3/2013 9:07:07 PM   
Dora09

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dora09


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

There are ~4,000 more troops the second day. If you have the unit list for the second day you can compare them and see who showed up late to the party.

As far as adjusted AV goes, if the attacker was less robust the second day (say, disruption and so on) then fewer defender squads would get suppressed by the attackers' firepower. That could account for a defender's adjusted AV being higher the second day.


But if what you are saying above is true, wouldn't the attackers adjusted AV be lowered as well? When the attacker has problems (supply, disruption etc.) it is their adjusted AV that gets takes the hit, that makes sense and is expected and observed in games with regularity. The ones that have vexed me are those where the defender takes relatively substantial damage the first day and then gets a massive boost in adjusted AV the next (without the introduction of new troops (same raw AV). I don't want to highjack this AAR but when I have seen this, my second day (attacker) adjusted AV actually increased slightly but the defende's adjusted AV got a massive jump. It has happened twice in my game at seemingly random times.

He could have brought more stuff that does not have raw AV to the party - arty and HQs, support troops (to truck ammo to the front lines), etc.
Perhaps the game also has a "surprise attack" chance where one side can occasionally catch the other side napping?



That makes sense. Even though it has been frustrating at times, I like that the outcome of land battles are somewhat unpredictable and not always based purely on AV.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 424
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/4/2013 6:57:52 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Whooops!

Sorry for the confusion. As I wrote the topmost attack is actually the second. What I find really interesting is this:

First attack:

Ground combat at Port Moresby (98,130)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 45832 troops, 935 guns, 1172 vehicles, Assault Value = 1773
Defending force 25123 troops, 252 guns, 65 vehicles, Assault Value = 844
Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 4
Allied adjusted assault: 1016
Japanese adjusted defense: 1019
Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 4)


Second attack:

Ground combat at Port Moresby (98,130)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 45134 troops, 938 guns, 1179 vehicles, Assault Value = 1695
Defending force 21999 troops, 236 guns, 57 vehicles, Assault Value = 592
Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 3
Allied adjusted assault: 873
Japanese adjusted defense: 1023
Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 3)

Despite having dropped 250 RAW AV the adjusted AV is actually slightly higher in the second attack. I wonder why this is? Probably a combination of dice roll and the fact that his troops didnīt get a negative modifier for disruption. Hopefully mostly a bad roll of the dice because Iīm going to try again next turn!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Tough luck that

Have you tried having your carrier T/F always following an ASW patrol at 0 hexes?


I had the CV TFs following a ASW TF. Donīt know if it makes a difference but it feels better having the ASW TF go "first". I also had a ASW TF following the CVs. I reloaded the turn and checked my setup and I had 36 DDs with the CV/CVEs (most with ASW 8) and two ASW TFs with 4 SC each. That makes the ASW value around 320 in the hex and he still got 3 attempts on my CVs... Makes me very nervous for the future...

Iīm going to try and flood the area with ASW TFs and see if I can nail some of the subs.


(in reply to Dora09)
Post #: 425
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/4/2013 1:25:47 PM   
BBfanboy


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I have been sandboxing for some time and have found that having too many ASW TFs in the same hex seems to negate their effectiveness. Best results from two TFs of four ships. Three TF are OK, but don't seem to work quite as well. Four or more seem to rarely find the sub. The only sense I can make of this is that the sub will come near the surface when there is space enough between the TFs but if not, it dives deep - below the thermal layers that cloak it.
The game doesn't model the need for the sub to come up for air and battery recharge, as far as I can tell, so they stay out of sight indefinitely.

_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 426
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/4/2013 2:49:19 PM   
witpqs

 

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From: Argleton
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Whooops!

Sorry for the confusion. As I wrote the topmost attack is actually the second. What I find really interesting is this:

First attack:

Ground combat at Port Moresby (98,130)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 45832 troops, 935 guns, 1172 vehicles, Assault Value = 1773
Defending force 25123 troops, 252 guns, 65 vehicles, Assault Value = 844
Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 4
Allied adjusted assault: 1016
Japanese adjusted defense: 1019
Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 4)


Second attack:

Ground combat at Port Moresby (98,130)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 45134 troops, 938 guns, 1179 vehicles, Assault Value = 1695
Defending force 21999 troops, 236 guns, 57 vehicles, Assault Value = 592
Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 3
Allied adjusted assault: 873
Japanese adjusted defense: 1023
Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 3)

Despite having dropped 250 RAW AV the adjusted AV is actually slightly higher in the second attack. I wonder why this is? Probably a combination of dice roll and the fact that his troops didnīt get a negative modifier for disruption. Hopefully mostly a bad roll of the dice because Iīm going to try again next turn!

Certainly possible, but remember to consider things having to do with the attacker. Adjusted AV is what's left at the end of combat. In addition to those many, wonderful random die rolls, there are also the effects of the various firing phases. The adjusted AV is the original AV minus squads/devices destroyed or disabled during the firing phases (disabled squads might count partial) and minus squads/devices that are suppressed. Suppressed is not the same as disabled. Think of suppressed as squads (or other weapons groups like guns, tanks, etc.) that are pinned down, disorganized, thrown off their objective (whether defensive or offensive), etc. etc. by enemy fire during that combat. Suppressed in AE is temporary for that combat only, and does not carry over to the next turn. Disruption and fatigue carry over, and I presume that deep inside the calculations there is some connection where things that are suppressed have chance of becoming disrupted.

Why does this matter? Because each side starts with an AV total. Then various modifiers are applied. Then there are firing phases where attacker and defender fire at each other. But remember that 500 squads and 30 tanks with 0 disruption are many times more effective than 500 squads and 30 tanks with a disruption value of 30. Un-disrupted troops will suppress enemy squads/devices much more. Now, note that this is a high-level abstraction of the way I've learned that combat is resolved. I am not suggesting that this is specifically how it happens. Given what developers have said over time and what I and others have seen and posted about the game, it is a reasonable metaphor to help conceptualize the situation we are discussing.

For the first combat the attackers were fresh (presumably). That is not true for the second combat. The attacking troops might well be disrupted, fatigued, lower in morale. The point is, they might well have done a less effective job of suppressing the defenders during the second combat. So even if all other things were equal, the defenders could have higher adjusted AV even starting with a lower original AV.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/site/staffmonkeys/

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 427
Port Moresby liberated! - 1/5/2013 9:55:56 AM   
JocMeister

 

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24th - 28th November -43

As seen in previous posts this havnīt been the best of days for the allies. It didnīt get any better on the 27th. But at least some good news on the 28th!

Port Moresby

It finally succumbed to the allied onslaught!

quote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Port Moresby (98,130)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 45018 troops, 937 guns, 1177 vehicles, Assault Value = 1600

Defending force 19771 troops, 236 guns, 56 vehicles, Assault Value = 407

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Allied adjusted assault: 718

Japanese adjusted defense: 189

Allied assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
2118 casualties reported
Squads: 116 destroyed, 40 disabled
Non Combat: 8 destroyed, 158 disabled
Engineers: 7 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 65 (31 destroyed, 34 disabled)
Vehicles lost 5 (3 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Units destroyed 1


Allied ground losses:
349 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 45 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 16 disabled
Vehicles lost 16 (1 destroyed, 15 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Port Moresby (98,130)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 44415 troops, 937 guns, 1176 vehicles, Assault Value = 1563

Defending force 16707 troops, 205 guns, 53 vehicles, Assault Value = 338

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Allied adjusted assault: 953

Japanese adjusted defense: 99

Allied assault odds: 9 to 1 (fort level 1)

Allied forces CAPTURE Port Moresby !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
4708 casualties reported
Squads: 99 destroyed, 52 disabled
Non Combat: 318 destroyed, 38 disabled
Engineers: 93 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 73 (62 destroyed, 11 disabled)
Vehicles lost 54 (54 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 8


Allied ground losses:
140 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Vehicles lost 20 (1 destroyed, 19 disabled)


Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!


The 1st Marines together with a Corp HQ and two combat engineer units set out after his troops retreating towards Buna. The USAAF will continue to harass from the air. I think Erik will have some problems getting the troops out from Buna unless his marches them. He might try to evac them via air. I will put LRCAP up once he arrives.

The involved units have already started prepping for the next targets. But before that I need to take Milne Bay. Erik has 25.000 troops there. If Iīm unlucky its another division. I will start bombing from the air shortly to try and gauge what is there. I have two divisions, some tanks and combat engineers fully prepped. If this takes the same effort PM did I will be in trouble.

Erik sent in a bombardment on Groyte Island that did little damage.

Burma

I did some test bombings of his troops that are in open terrain but in the fortified bases. Results were somewhat encouraging. Iīm starting to wonder if its possible to suppress his troops in Prome enough for me to capture the base? He has 125.000 troops in place and probably 5-7 forts. Clear hex. I have my 5000AV. Lots of tanks and engineers.

What do you guys think? Is it possible to make enough damage from the air to have a shot at it? Iīm really uncomfortable with my own inexperience and donīt want to waste a month bombing Prome to then have my forces smashed in the first attack. The possibility of removing the threat of those 125.000 troops is very exciting. Opinions very welcome!

CENTPAC

This is getting tiresome. The TF had 56 ASW rating. It doesnīt look like much but 40 Flood (32 Major) and 32 Engine (32 Major) I guess she will be gone for a year. So in 5 turns the Jap subs have made more damage then the combined US sub fleet has done over the course of the war.

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Enderbury Island at 159,144

Japanese Ships
SS I-172, hits 1

Allied Ships
BB Maryland, Torpedo hits 1
BB Idaho
DD Hazelwood
DD Crane
DD Kennison
DD Dent
DD Schley



SS I-172 launches 4 torpedoes at BB Maryland
I-172 diving deep ....
DD Crane attacking submerged sub ....
DD Kennison fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Dent fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Schley fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Crane fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Dent fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Dent attacking submerged sub ....
DD Dent fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Dent fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


With the BB shortage Iīm suffering from this is kind of devastating. Ships have returned to Christmas to replenish. Troops have started the loading process. Should be able to land in 8-12 days. Wanīt to try and clear out the subs first.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 428
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/5/2013 10:03:47 AM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Certainly possible, but remember to consider things having to do with the attacker. Adjusted AV is what's left at the end of combat. In addition to those many, wonderful random die rolls, there are also the effects of the various firing phases. The adjusted AV is the original AV minus squads/devices destroyed or disabled during the firing phases (disabled squads might count partial) and minus squads/devices that are suppressed. Suppressed is not the same as disabled. Think of suppressed as squads (or other weapons groups like guns, tanks, etc.) that are pinned down, disorganized, thrown off their objective (whether defensive or offensive), etc. etc. by enemy fire during that combat. Suppressed in AE is temporary for that combat only, and does not carry over to the next turn. Disruption and fatigue carry over, and I presume that deep inside the calculations there is some connection where things that are suppressed have chance of becoming disrupted.

Why does this matter? Because each side starts with an AV total. Then various modifiers are applied. Then there are firing phases where attacker and defender fire at each other. But remember that 500 squads and 30 tanks with 0 disruption are many times more effective than 500 squads and 30 tanks with a disruption value of 30. Un-disrupted troops will suppress enemy squads/devices much more. Now, note that this is a high-level abstraction of the way I've learned that combat is resolved. I am not suggesting that this is specifically how it happens. Given what developers have said over time and what I and others have seen and posted about the game, it is a reasonable metaphor to help conceptualize the situation we are discussing.

For the first combat the attackers were fresh (presumably). That is not true for the second combat. The attacking troops might well be disrupted, fatigued, lower in morale. The point is, they might well have done a less effective job of suppressing the defenders during the second combat. So even if all other things were equal, the defenders could have higher adjusted AV even starting with a lower original AV.


Thank you for the explanation. I did not know that! Makes sense!

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 429
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/5/2013 11:30:51 AM   
ny59giants


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Milne Bay - My list of items to check off 'before' I invade.
1) A Corp/Army HQ and a Command HQ near or at 100% prepped.
2) At least three combat engineers and three tank units included (at this point in the game, probably SOP for any invasion).
3) An Amphib TF with just supplies to unload alongside the troops quickly.

There may be other items to include, but I'm still drinking my first cup of coffee. I awoke thinking I need to start a bigger list for my future counter attacks. ID all my tank and combat engineers and list them. My multiple list of stuff to keep track of as Allies is growing. Details will be talked about in my own AAR. Don't want Olorin to get too much free intel.

_____________________________


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Post #: 430
Port Moresby liberated! - 1/5/2013 11:49:26 AM   
JocMeister

 

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From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Milne Bay - My list of items to check off 'before' I invade.
1) A Corp/Army HQ and a Command HQ near or at 100% prepped.
2) At least three combat engineers and three tank units included (at this point in the game, probably SOP for any invasion).
3) An Amphib TF with just supplies to unload alongside the troops quickly.

There may be other items to include, but I'm still drinking my first cup of coffee. I awoke thinking I need to start a bigger list for my future counter attacks. ID all my tank and combat engineers and list them. My multiple list of stuff to keep track of as Allies is growing. Details will be talked about in my own AAR. Don't want Olorin to get too much free intel.


Its a good list. But unfortunately I havnīt had a command HQ available for the task!

Despite being allied I have found the things Iīm lacking most are combat engineers and Tanks. I have two of each prepped for Milne but thats pretty much all I have to spare in OZ. The three tank units at PM have started prepping for Milne but since we arnīt using the BETA they reset to 0.

Number three on the list I can manage though!


< Message edited by JocMeister -- 1/5/2013 11:50:01 AM >

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Post #: 431
RE: Port Moresby liberated! - 1/5/2013 1:00:00 PM   
ny59giants


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Command HQs - You have assigned what bases to prep for??

Australia Command HQ (Restricted to OZ, but range of 9 x 2 = 18 hexes) =
North Pacific HQ =
Central Pacific HQ (Pacific Area - name depends on the scenario or mod your playing))=
South Pacific HQ =
SouthWest Pacific HQ =

Signed,
Allied Operations Dept.

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 1/5/2013 2:13:11 PM >


_____________________________


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Post #: 432
RE: Port Moresby liberated! - 1/5/2013 1:57:38 PM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
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Pacific Fleet/Ocean Areas HQ is also unrestricted and historically it did move from PH to Saipan when that island was secured. Don't know off hand if it can help with army support though. It can certainly help with ship loading/reammunitioning and repairs.
You should also bring an Amphib HQ to help coordinate the landing. I don't think you need to wait for an AGC to use them - load them in a couple of transports in a separate TF set to "DO NOT UNLOAD" and park them one hex back from the landing, or in the landing hex if you prefer.
MB is dangerous because of subs so do lots of ASW and mine clearing before the landings.

_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 433
RE: Port Moresby liberated! - 1/5/2013 2:31:14 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Going by memory here but Iīm fairly certain its accurate!

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Command HQs - You have assigned what bases to prep for??

Australia Command HQ (Restricted to OZ, but range of 9 x 2 = 18 hexes) = Darwin
North Pacific HQ = Dutch Harbour
Central Pacific HQ (Pacific Area - name depends on the scenario or mod your playing))= Tarawa
South Pacific HQ = Ndeni (This one I might change soon as Ndeni lost its significance)
SouthWest Pacific HQ = Was PM now set to Rabaul. Unsure about this one as I might never invasde Rabaul

Signed,
Allied Operations Dept.


Looks good?

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 434
RE: Port Moresby liberated! - 1/5/2013 2:33:52 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

You should also bring an Amphib HQ to help coordinate the landing. I don't think you need to wait for an AGC to use them - load them in a couple of transports in a separate TF set to "DO NOT UNLOAD" and park them one hex back from the landing, or in the landing hex if you prefer.
MB is dangerous because of subs so do lots of ASW and mine clearing before the landings.


Are you sure about the Amphib HQ? Very good info if you are right. Especially as we are playing with the version the messes up HQs when they land!

As soon as PMs AF is operational I will start working on Milne. Need to be able to provide LRCAP for the AMs. Engineers started unloading at PM this turn!

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 435
RE: Port Moresby liberated! - 1/5/2013 2:46:56 PM   
ny59giants


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quote:

Looks good?


No!! If most of those bases are not scheduled to be invaded in the next two to three months, the Command HQ and its ability to influence Adjusted AV is being wasted. Of course each of those Command HQs needs to be teamed up with a Corp/Army HQ.

_____________________________


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Post #: 436
RE: Port Moresby liberated! - 1/5/2013 2:54:54 PM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

You should also bring an Amphib HQ to help coordinate the landing. I don't think you need to wait for an AGC to use them - load them in a couple of transports in a separate TF set to "DO NOT UNLOAD" and park them one hex back from the landing, or in the landing hex if you prefer.
MB is dangerous because of subs so do lots of ASW and mine clearing before the landings.


Are you sure about the Amphib HQ? Very good info if you are right. Especially as we are playing with the version the messes up HQs when they land!

As soon as PMs AF is operational I will start working on Milne. Need to be able to provide LRCAP for the AMs. Engineers started unloading at PM this turn!


Which part are you asking about being right?
The use of an Amphib HQ - yes, coordination of landings is what they are designed for, and the need to do it from the sea where the ships are lining up waves of landing craft.
Not needing an AGC? I am not certain about this but why would you get an Amphib HQ at PH over a year before you get any AGC. They would be more efficient on an AGC because of the extra radio equipment and the ice cream machines, but I see no reason they could not try to do their job from an xAP.

_____________________________

I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 437
RE: Port Moresby liberated! - 1/5/2013 3:09:12 PM   
witpqs

 

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quote:

Pacific Fleet/Ocean Areas HQ is also unrestricted and historically it did move from PH to Saipan when that island was secured. Don't know off hand if it can help with army support though. It can certainly help with ship loading/reammunitioning and repairs.

It certainly does, yes. In AE a command HQ is a command HQ, which is how it worked IRL also so that is accurate enough.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/site/staffmonkeys/

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 438
RE: Port Moresby liberated! - 1/5/2013 3:13:26 PM   
witpqs

 

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I'm not looking at the game right now but as I remember there are two kinds of Amphib HQ - one is Amphib Corps and the other is Amphib Force. Corps is just a Corps HQ. Force is the HQ that goes on the AGC and helps the amphibious landing to go better.

BTW, as I recall, MichaelM clarified that an Amphib Force aboard an AGC only helps the TF in which it is a member. The advice in old WITP (before AE) had been that it helped all TFs in the hex, so I'm not sure if that is a change or if the old advice was simply mistaken.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/site/staffmonkeys/

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 439
RE: Port Moresby liberated! - 1/5/2013 4:14:43 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

quote:

Looks good?


No!! If most of those bases are not scheduled to be invaded in the next two to three months, the Command HQ and its ability to influence Adjusted AV is being wasted. Of course each of those Command HQs needs to be teamed up with a Corp/Army HQ.


Some of them are like Darwin, Dutch and Tarawa. Rabaul and Ndeni are unsure. I just donīt really know what other targets might be better to prep for! I have teamed them with a Corps HQ of course


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
Not needing an AGC? I am not certain about this but why would you get an Amphib HQ at PH over a year before you get any AGC. They would be more efficient on an AGC because of the extra radio equipment and the ice cream machines, but I see no reason they could not try to do their job from an xAP.


I see your reasoning. Just assumed and AGC was needed!


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I'm not looking at the game right now but as I remember there are two kinds of Amphib HQ - one is Amphib Corps and the other is Amphib Force. Corps is just a Corps HQ. Force is the HQ that goes on the AGC and helps the amphibious landing to go better.

BTW, as I recall, MichaelM clarified that an Amphib Force aboard an AGC only helps the TF in which it is a member. The advice in old WITP (before AE) had been that it helped all TFs in the hex, so I'm not sure if that is a change or if the old advice was simply mistaken.


Again, I had no clue about that! Good info!

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 1/5/2013 4:17:02 PM >

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 440
RE: Port Moresby liberated! - 1/5/2013 6:21:55 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I'm not looking at the game right now but as I remember there are two kinds of Amphib HQ - one is Amphib Corps and the other is Amphib Force. Corps is just a Corps HQ. Force is the HQ that goes on the AGC and helps the amphibious landing to go better.

BTW, as I recall, MichaelM clarified that an Amphib Force aboard an AGC only helps the TF in which it is a member. The advice in old WITP (before AE) had been that it helped all TFs in the hex, so I'm not sure if that is a change or if the old advice was simply mistaken.

MichaelM really said that? When I was first trying out AGCs/Amphib HQs and had it embedded in the Amphib TF it unloaded the HQ! How in the world do you keep it on the AGC if you have to set "Unload Cargo" to get your troops ashore?
This is really confusing.

Thanks for pointing out that Amphib Corps is a Corps HQ and not a landing coordination HQ. I think this is the one that shows up at PH in early 1942.

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Post #: 441
RE: Port Moresby liberated! - 1/6/2013 12:06:32 AM   
witpqs

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I'm not looking at the game right now but as I remember there are two kinds of Amphib HQ - one is Amphib Corps and the other is Amphib Force. Corps is just a Corps HQ. Force is the HQ that goes on the AGC and helps the amphibious landing to go better.

BTW, as I recall, MichaelM clarified that an Amphib Force aboard an AGC only helps the TF in which it is a member. The advice in old WITP (before AE) had been that it helped all TFs in the hex, so I'm not sure if that is a change or if the old advice was simply mistaken.

MichaelM really said that? When I was first trying out AGCs/Amphib HQs and had it embedded in the Amphib TF it unloaded the HQ! How in the world do you keep it on the AGC if you have to set "Unload Cargo" to get your troops ashore?
This is really confusing.

Thanks for pointing out that Amphib Corps is a Corps HQ and not a landing coordination HQ. I think this is the one that shows up at PH in early 1942.


I know - I hate that too! IIRC Michael mentioned something about it not unloading until the turn after everything else. Don't remember that fully so might not be exactly what he said. Basically I guess that implies that you have one turn to catch it and stop it from unloading. It was a while ago and I haven't had a chance to use one since hearing that, so I still have to see it for myself to get comfortable with how it works.

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Post #: 442
RE: Port Moresby liberated! - 1/6/2013 9:48:32 AM   
JocMeister

 

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28th - 1st December -43

Not much happening to report actually. Moving forces around all over the map. Did some sweeps in Burma and SOPAC. Erik lost some 200 planes in the last days. I lost 7 Corsairs over Darwin.

SOPAC

Erik tried to defend the air over Milne Bay. But with Port Moresbys AF operational and that cost him. Iīm reshuffling the air units to start the air offensive against Milne Bay. Air field at PM expanded to 6 already. Once it reaches 9 Erik will have some problems I think.

Tried something sneaky over Darwin. Snuck in a AirHQ and loaded it up with torps to strike at Eriks 2 CA forces at Darwin. 40 TBs manage an astounding 2 hits on a CL. I wish I had guided torpedoes like Eriks Betties/Netties.

Burma

I struck at one of Erik major airfields with over 100 Fighters.

quote:

Morning Air attack on Toungoo , at 57,50

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 37,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 48
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 80
Ki-61-Ib Tony x 12



Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 167


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 4 destroyed
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 8 destroyed
Ki-61-Ib Tony: 5 destroyed

No Allied losses



Losses are actually a lot higher then the numbers show. Around 60 Tojos are downed today. Hopefully I can push Erik back to Rangoon AF soon! Donīt know if its smart of Erik or not but he has avoided air combat like the plague for the last 2 months. This has led to my Pools being in excellent shape. Almost 100 P47 in the pools right now. And that is with 250 planes on map. P38 pools are approaching 100 too. And Corsair pools are going up despite me upgrading a lot of units.

Erik did do a sweep over Akyab 2 days ago. Didnīt go very well for him. Ended with 1:1 and most of my units were P40s.

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Akyab , at 54,45

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 30 NM, estimated altitude 37,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 25



Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIc Trop x 16
Spitfire Vc Trop x 16
Spitfire VIII x 32
P-40K Warhawk x 63


Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40K Warhawk: 3 destroyed



Aircraft Attacking:
4 x N1K1-J George sweeping at 31000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Akyab , at 54,45

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 71 NM, estimated altitude 36,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 31
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 78
Ki-84a Frank x 32



Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIc Trop x 16
Spitfire Vc Trop x 16
Spitfire VIII x 31
P-40K Warhawk x 57


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 2 destroyed
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 2 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIc Trop: 1 destroyed
Spitfire VIII: 1 destroyed
P-40K Warhawk: 4 destroyed




Aircraft Attacking:
42 x Ki-44-IIa Tojo sweeping at 31000 feet
24 x Ki-84a Frank sweeping at 31000 feet
6 x Ki-43-IIb Oscar sweeping at 31000 feet
19 x Ki-44-IIa Tojo sweeping at 31000 feet
16 x Ki-43-IIb Oscar sweeping at 31000 feet


Iīm not impressed so far by the Frank and George. As long as I can match them against Corsairs or P47 I should do fine. He can outproduce me for sure. But his higher losses will mean he hopefully canīt build a pool of experienced pilots like I can. The low losses for me slowly builds a healthy pool of combat experienced pilots while he should run out pretty quickly and be forced to use raw recruits.

My army pool is still in great shape with some 600 70+EXP pilots. And I hardly loose any pilots at all. USMC are also in great shape while the navy pool isnīt. Iīm starting to get some good numbers but they are still pretty low quality (50/70/50).

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Post #: 443
RE: Port Moresby liberated! - 1/6/2013 11:12:52 AM   
ny59giants


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quote:

Some of them are like Darwin, Dutch and Tarawa. Rabaul and Ndeni are unsure. I just donīt really know what other targets might be better to prep for! I have teamed them with a Corps HQ of course


One more time here. At this point in your game, you should have a Army/Corp HQ and Command HQ prepping for Milne Bay. Another set for Darwin. That leaves you with three set of HQs that need to be prepping for......?? Of the four bases you listed, you did not feel as if they would be attacked in the next three months, if at all. You should have a list of your combat engineers, assign two each to a new objective.

quote:

The 1st Marines together with a Corp HQ and two combat engineer units set out after his troops retreating towards Buna. The USAAF will continue to harass from the air. I think Erik will have some problems getting the troops out from Buna unless his marches them. He might try to evac them via air. I will put LRCAP up once he arrives.


So, did you start to prep a Command HQ for this base??

New Guinea - Are you going to try to advance up the southern or northern side?? Or both?? Assign your HQ sets to bases you will invade next here.

I doubt you have certain divisions assigned to a Army/Corp HQs, but you should have a list of troops assigned to one for operational purposes. An example would be that US 1st Corp HQ, SW Pac Command HQ, 37 Div, 40 Div, Americal Div, two combat eng, and two or three tank. They prep for a base, invade and capture that base, rest and recover together. Rinse, repeat.

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Post #: 444
RE: Port Moresby liberated! - 1/6/2013 11:31:27 AM   
GreyJoy


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Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Iīm not impressed so far by the Frank and George. As long as I can match them against Corsairs or P47 I should do fine. He can outproduce me for sure. But his higher losses will mean he hopefully canīt build a pool of experienced pilots like I can. The low losses for me slowly builds a healthy pool of combat experienced pilots while he should run out pretty quickly and be forced to use raw recruits.

My army pool is still in great shape with some 600 70+EXP pilots. And I hardly loose any pilots at all. USMC are also in great shape while the navy pool isnīt. Iīm starting to get some good numbers but they are still pretty low quality (50/70/50).




No suprise here. There's nothing Japan can oppose to P-47s in 1943-1944. Just numbers... P-47s will eat alive anything. and i think Erik is right not to keep on attrit you air force. By now your replacements rates are much better than last year, so, with the quality of your planes and pilots, Erik would attrit him more than what he can attrit you.


(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 445
RE: Port Moresby liberated! - 1/6/2013 12:38:02 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
One more time here. At this point in your game, you should have a Army/Corp HQ and Command HQ prepping for Milne Bay. Another set for Darwin. That leaves you with three set of HQs that need to be prepping for......?? Of the four bases you listed, you did not feel as if they would be attacked in the next three months, if at all. You should have a list of your combat engineers, assign two each to a new objective.


Well, I do have to make a decision about Ndeni very shortly. Rabaul too. You are right. I donīt gain anything by putting the decision off.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
So, did you start to prep a Command HQ for this base??


Hmm, No I didnīt. I may have misunderstood something here but donīt you need 100 prep for the bonus to kick in? I expect to reach Buna in 22 days. Unless the bonus kicks in immediately I would be better off using the time to prep for a target "further down the line"?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
New Guinea - Are you going to try to advance up the southern or northern side?? Or both?? Assign your HQ sets to bases you will invade next here.


I will go on the North side. Merauke will be the only base attacked on the south side. I have Cops HQs prepped for various targets. But with only 2 command HQs available (Rabaul/Ndeni) I canīt prep for them all. But you are right. I should be prepping for those targets instead of Rabaul/Ndeni.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
I doubt you have certain divisions assigned to a Army/Corp HQs, but you should have a list of troops assigned to one for operational purposes. An example would be that US 1st Corp HQ, SW Pac Command HQ, 37 Div, 40 Div, Americal Div, two combat eng, and two or three tank. They prep for a base, invade and capture that base, rest and recover together. Rinse, repeat.


I had three such teams consisting of 1 Corps HQ, 2 ID, 2 Tank BTL and 1 Combat Engineer RGT. The PM debacle threw that off since I had to land the Ndeni team at PM. In hindsight these "teams" are too weak on their own. At least 1 more ID and one more Engineer unit is needed I think? Thats why I fear a landing at Milne right now. I would have liked an additional ID there.


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Post #: 446
RE: Port Moresby liberated! - 1/6/2013 12:46:23 PM   
JocMeister

 

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From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
No suprise here. There's nothing Japan can oppose to P-47s in 1943-1944. Just numbers... P-47s will eat alive anything. and i think Erik is right not to keep on attrit you air force. By now your replacements rates are much better than last year, so, with the quality of your planes and pilots, Erik would attrit him more than what he can attrit you.


You are probably right as you have way more knowledge of this then me! But assuming he can produce roughly 500 Franks/Georges per month and Iīm stuck with 134 Corsairs/P47s I assumed it would be beneficial to the Japanese player to try and attrit the allied side? At least until the next version kicks in with 175 arriving per month?

Erik not trying to battle my forces have led to me being able to upgrade a lot of squadrons from P40 to P47. Something Iīm quite happy with! I started with 6 squadrons and now have 10 squadrons plus 80 in the pool. If this continues I will be able to upgrade 2 more P40 squadrons shortly. And this sure leads to even more problems for the Japanese player?

But perhaps as you say its just not doable to kill of enough P47s to "stem the tide"!

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Post #: 447
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/6/2013 1:53:54 PM   
ny59giants


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HQ Bonuses - The AI rolls the dice per say for each HQ prepping for that base. Only 100% prepped ensures it passes this part of the combat resolution. So an Army/Corp HQ with only 33 prep points has a 1 in 3 chance to pass this die roll to get the 10% Adjusted AV bonus. The Command HQ only acts like a Command HQ "IF" the Army/Corp HQ passes its dice roll. If the Army/Corp HQ doesn't pass the dice roll, then you have this extra chance with a command HQ.

So, at Buna if the Army/Corp HQ passes its test, the 25 points the command HQ may have gotten to before your troops arrive will give you a 1 in 4 chance to have it effect combat. Make sense now??

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Post #: 448
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/6/2013 2:09:39 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

HQ Bonuses - The AI rolls the dice per say for each HQ prepping for that base. Only 100% prepped ensures it passes this part of the combat resolution. So an Army/Corp HQ with only 33 prep points has a 1 in 3 chance to pass this die roll to get the 10% Adjusted AV bonus. The Command HQ only acts like a Command HQ "IF" the Army/Corp HQ passes its dice roll. If the Army/Corp HQ doesn't pass the dice roll, then you have this extra chance with a command HQ.

So, at Buna if the Army/Corp HQ passes its test, the 25 points the command HQ may have gotten to before your troops arrive will give you a 1 in 4 chance to have it effect combat. Make sense now??


It seems I havnīt really understood how this works!

So basically its only crucial to have the Corp/Army HQ as prepped as possible? The command HQ bonus (+90% adjusted AV) will kick in as long as the Corps/Army HQ passes the dice roll and the Command HQ is within range? (Iīm guessing there are some checks related to the Command HQ too?)

Having the Command HQ prepped is only important in the way that if the Corps/Army HQ fails the dice roll (for 10% adjusted AV) the command HQ (if prepped and successful) can add the 10% AV failed by the Corps/Army HQ? But other then that the preparation of the Command HQ is irrelevant?

If so, the Corps HQ I have 100% prepped for Milne Bay can contribute a +90% adjusted AV as long as I move say SW Pacific to Port Moresby and within range of Milne Bay?

Sorry if Iīm being dense here! Just want to make sure I get it!

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Post #: 449
RE: Port Moresby invaded! - 1/6/2013 2:30:26 PM   
ny59giants


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ALL HQs have to pass the dice roll to get their advantage. So an Army/Corp HQ has to pass their dice roll (0 to 100) and then the Command HQ has to pass their dice roll (0 to 100). "IF" the dice roll is equal to or less than the prep level, then it has passed the test and can add 10% or 90% "IF" it is a Command HQ.

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