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70th British Div

 
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70th British Div - 6/9/2012 1:23:49 PM   
msieving1


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Is there a reason the 70th British Div has no infantry squads? I'm trying to figure out if this is intentional or simply a database error. An infantry division with no infantry seems a bit odd.
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RE: 70th British Div - 6/9/2012 2:11:12 PM   
Dixie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: msieving1

Is there a reason the 70th British Div has no infantry squads? I'm trying to figure out if this is intentional or simply a database error. An infantry division with no infantry seems a bit odd.



IIRC, 70th Div just represents the Divisional HQ staff. The actual brigades that made up the division arrive separately and the HQ portion will withdraw. The Division didn't actually see combat as a complete formation once it arrived in India, instead it was used for internal security tasks.

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RE: 70th British Div - 6/9/2012 3:08:24 PM   
moonraker


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Aren't those the 3 brigades (14th, 16th and 23rd) that eventually become Chindits ??. Got a feeling it says something about that in the manual. And I'm sure I've got a reference somewhere that states the 3 brigades that made up 70th Division were used in that manner in the run up to Operation Thursday

< Message edited by moonraker -- 6/9/2012 3:10:41 PM >


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RE: 70th British Div - 6/9/2012 3:23:33 PM   
Onime No Kyo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: moonraker

Aren't those the 3 brigades (14th, 16th and 23rd) that eventually become Chindits ??. Got a feeling it says something about that in the manual. And I'm sure I've got a reference somewhere that states the 3 brigades that made up 70th Division were used in that manner in the run up to Operation Thursday


You are correct. It began the war as the 6 UK ID in the Middle East and Palestine.

I'm somewhat curious about why the decision was made not to be able to rebuild the division as a unit prior to withdrawal, given that a rebuilt division supposedly has combat advantages over an unrebuilt unit of the same size, however.

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RE: 70th British Div - 6/9/2012 3:32:16 PM   
moonraker


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Bill Slim was not happy about the 70th being broken up for use as Chindits that much I do know. He would much rather have seen it kept as a division for use in the second Arakan battle

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RE: 70th British Div - 6/9/2012 3:36:50 PM   
Onime No Kyo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: moonraker

Bill Slim was not happy about the 70th being broken up for use as Chindits that much I do know. He would much rather have seen it kept as a division for use in the second Arakan battle


I've read that as well. They made many compelling arguments about the combat effectiveness of a seasoned combat formation being kept whole...which fell on absolutely deaf ears.

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RE: 70th British Div - 6/9/2012 6:42:26 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: moonraker

Bill Slim was not happy about the 70th being broken up for use as Chindits that much I do know. He would much rather have seen it kept as a division for use in the second Arakan battle


I've read that as well. They made many compelling arguments about the combat effectiveness of a seasoned combat formation being kept whole...which fell on absolutely deaf ears.

I would say rather than "deaf ears", those ears were listening to the passionate Orde Wingate instead. In the context of the British situation in Bengal during early 1943, it is not hard to understand why Wingate's plan was supported.

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RE: 70th British Div - 6/9/2012 6:45:40 PM   
Onime No Kyo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: moonraker

Bill Slim was not happy about the 70th being broken up for use as Chindits that much I do know. He would much rather have seen it kept as a division for use in the second Arakan battle


I've read that as well. They made many compelling arguments about the combat effectiveness of a seasoned combat formation being kept whole...which fell on absolutely deaf ears.

I would say rather than "deaf ears", those ears were listening to the passionate Orde Wingate instead. In the context of the British situation in Bengal during early 1943, it is not hard to understand why Wingate's plan was supported.


That's true. But I think the arguments were more of a "just not this unit" variety in that it takes a lot of time and effort to get such a large combat formation to that level of cohesion, etc.

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RE: 70th British Div - 6/9/2012 7:40:10 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: moonraker

Bill Slim was not happy about the 70th being broken up for use as Chindits that much I do know. He would much rather have seen it kept as a division for use in the second Arakan battle


I've read that as well. They made many compelling arguments about the combat effectiveness of a seasoned combat formation being kept whole...which fell on absolutely deaf ears.

I would say rather than "deaf ears", those ears were listening to the passionate Orde Wingate instead. In the context of the British situation in Bengal during early 1943, it is not hard to understand why Wingate's plan was supported.


That's true. But I think the arguments were more of a "just not this unit" variety in that it takes a lot of time and effort to get such a large combat formation to that level of cohesion, etc.

Could have been; however, I got the sense Slim would have used the argument for any formation....as he was not a fan of Wingate's plan and the veteran troops had to come from somewhere...

Mike

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RE: 70th British Div - 6/9/2012 8:46:25 PM   
moonraker


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Indeed you do wonder whether the decision to transfer command of the Chindits to Stillwell was a sort of "take them off my hands" move by Slim

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RE: 70th British Div - 7/27/2012 8:06:16 PM   
goatan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: moonraker

Indeed you do wonder whether the decision to transfer command of the Chindits to Stillwell was a sort of "take them off my hands" move by Slim

Thats intersting because from what i remember Wingate said to Slim something along the lines off "your the only one who isn't out to get me". I think i will have to re-read slim master of war again.

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RE: 70th British Div - 7/27/2012 9:41:16 PM   
moonraker


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The Chindits were transferred to Stillwell's command for the assaults on Indaw, Mogaung and Myitkyina. After Myitkyina they were just about shot and withdrawn from the frontline in stages.

< Message edited by moonraker -- 7/27/2012 9:55:03 PM >


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RE: 70th British Div - 7/28/2012 12:40:07 AM   
JeffK


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Slim was happy with the real Chindits, 77th & 111th Indian Infantry Brigades.

His displeasure was more to do with breaking down 70th Infantry Division, splitting a Nigerian Bde from its Division and the attendant support required to manage 6 brigades rather thn 2.

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RE: 70th British Div - 7/28/2012 10:13:45 AM   
moonraker


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Yes "Operation Thursday" was 10 times the size of "Longcloth" . And they built bases to bring in supplies, take out wounded etc so must have been a nightmare logistics wise

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