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HQ attack bonus - 6/5/2012 9:17:55 PM   
SqzMyLemon


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Does the assault bonus incurred from HQ's and combat LCU's fully prepped for a base also apply when defending one, or does it only apply on the attack?

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RE: HQ attack bonus - 6/5/2012 9:27:49 PM   
SuluSea


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Prep points help both offensively and defensively and bonuses awarded from HQs are the same whether attacking or defending.


8.1.1 HEADQUARTERS
These are all support troops (the much-maligned “brass” sitting in the rear). However, these rear-area troops earn their keep in War in the Pacific, Admiral’s Edition™ by providing large numbers of support personnel to support other units and for construction and logistics tasks. They give combat benefits to combat units who are within a certain range, generally the same hex, and enable more bombers to fly Missions from bases under their control. A unit can benefit from its HQ, of which there are six types:

Command - Helps in several ways. They help in giving a bonus to ground combat. If no Corps HQ is in range of a ground unit, the Command HQ can give a bonus like a Corps HQ if it is in range of a ground unit. If there is a Corps HQ within range of the battle, and the Command HQ is within 2 times its command range of the battle, it can add up to an additional 90% bonus to the Assault Value of an attacking force for odds calculations. The bonuses are impacted by the leaderships rating of the commander of the HQs. Command HQs are also important for air replacements and upgrades (see section 16.2.3 for details).

Army - Helps with ground combat. Ground units in range can gain up to a 10% bonus to their Assault Value (whether attacking or defending).

Corps – Helps with ground combat. Ground units in range can gain up to a 10% bonus to their Assault Value (whether attacking or defending).

Amphibious – Helps amphibious invasions suffer fewer losses.

Naval – Helps to speed ship repair time.

Air – Helps by allowing more aircraft to fly and allows more air units to be based at a base with this type of HQ, coordinating aircraft replacement/upgrades and supporting more groups at a base.

If a friendly base is in a hex with a Command HQ, the base will attempt to stockpile 25,000 extra supplies. This is in addition to whatever supplies would normally try to move to the base to meet current and expected supply needs of the forces in the hex or any additional supply drawn forward by the manual stockpile routine.


< Message edited by SuluSea -- 6/5/2012 9:29:48 PM >

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 2
RE: HQ attack bonus - 6/5/2012 9:43:32 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 2911
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

Prep points help both offensively and defensively and bonuses awarded from HQs are the same whether attacking or defending.

8.1.1 HEADQUARTERS
These are all support troops (the much-maligned “brass” sitting in the rear). However, these rear-area troops earn their keep in War in the Pacific, Admiral’s Edition™ by providing large numbers of support personnel to support other units and for construction and logistics tasks. They give combat benefits to combat units who are within a certain range, generally the same hex, and enable more bombers to fly Missions from bases under their control. A unit can benefit from its HQ, of which there are six types:

Command - Helps in several ways. They help in giving a bonus to ground combat. If no Corps HQ is in range of a ground unit, the Command HQ can give a bonus like a Corps HQ if it is in range of a ground unit. If there is a Corps HQ within range of the battle, and the Command HQ is within 2 times its command range of the battle, it can add up to an additional 90% bonus to the Assault Value of an attacking force for odds calculations. The bonuses are impacted by the leaderships rating of the commander of the HQs. Command HQs are also important for air replacements and upgrades (see section 16.2.3 for details).

Army - Helps with ground combat. Ground units in range can gain up to a 10% bonus to their Assault Value (whether attacking or defending).

Corps – Helps with ground combat. Ground units in range can gain up to a 10% bonus to their Assault Value (whether attacking or defending).

Amphibious – Helps amphibious invasions suffer fewer losses.

Naval – Helps to speed ship repair time.

Air – Helps by allowing more aircraft to fly and allows more air units to be based at a base with this type of HQ, coordinating aircraft replacement/upgrades and supporting more groups at a base.

If a friendly base is in a hex with a Command HQ, the base will attempt to stockpile 25,000 extra supplies. This is in addition to whatever supplies would normally try to move to the base to meet current and expected supply needs of the forces in the hex or any additional supply drawn forward by the manual stockpile routine.


Thanks SuluSea. I knew of the 10% percent bonuses, but was wondering about the bonus in bold. It appears from the wording, that it only applies to an attacker's AV. I was seeking confirmation if it also applies to defending a base.

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Post #: 3
RE: HQ attack bonus - 6/6/2012 4:37:12 PM   
Yaab


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I have the same doubts as SqzMyLemon.

Combat bonus:
Command HQ - 90% attack
Corps HQ and Army HQ - 10% attack/defense

Maybe on defense Command HQ gives 10% as well?

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Post #: 4
RE: HQ attack bonus - 3/18/2013 7:05:34 PM   
AirGriff


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Here's an added question to this dusty old thread. Does an LCU need to be within the command structure of a corps, army, or umbrella command to get the bonus? I assume not from the manual quoted above, but the political point system and fact that we can move commands around seems to suggest we LCU's should be within the proper OOB to receive the bonus. Can any shed some light on a dim head?

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RE: HQ attack bonus - 3/18/2013 10:54:15 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AirGriff

Here's an added question to this dusty old thread. Does an LCU need to be within the command structure of a corps, army, or umbrella command to get the bonus? I assume not from the manual quoted above, but the political point system and fact that we can move commands around seems to suggest we LCU's should be within the proper OOB to receive the bonus. Can any shed some light on a dim head?


There are those who swear it does help. There was one player who was using every shady trick in the book to get units switched to the proper HQs for less than their real PP value. He seemed to have success fighting as armies supported by HQs all aligned.

Personally I'd rather have two divisions than one aligned with it's HQ. It's all in how you want to spend your PPs.


< Message edited by obvert -- 3/21/2013 1:04:07 PM >


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RE: HQ attack bonus - 3/20/2013 5:23:01 PM   
John Lansford

 

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I seem to recall that same question asked years ago, and the response was no, it did not matter if the LCU was of the same organization as the HQ to get the combat benefit. I hope not; I've got an Indian Corps HQ prepped for my Rangoon assault but only British and Australian LCU's are making the attack.

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RE: HQ attack bonus - 3/20/2013 7:56:43 PM   
jeffk3510


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Seems the majority of folks say HQ chain of command/organization doesn't matter.

I only try to just for the sake of realism..

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RE: HQ attack bonus - 3/20/2013 11:28:45 PM   
Rainer

 

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quote:

I only try to just for the sake of realism..


I'd do that too. Alas, the prohibitive cost of assigning/re-assigning US Divisions to Corps HQ does not allow that. Even if the assignments are historically correct.
Pure chrome, I know, but it still bothers me that I cannot assign the divs to the correct HQs, at least later in the war.

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RE: HQ attack bonus - 3/20/2013 11:55:07 PM   
AirGriff


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Yes, I remember reading about this now that I've asked the question. It just seems odd that they would go through the trouble of building the political point and command system, and then it not matter at all except for converting restricted units. I'd rather they just make us pay to get the restricted units free, but allow unrestricted units to move between commands free of charge since there is no bonus anyway, much like you can move ships in and out of commands for free. It lets us tidy up our OOB's. I'm howling at the moon I suppose, especially since it apparently doesn't impact the game mechanics one way or the other. Anyway, thanks for the replies.

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RE: HQ attack bonus - 3/20/2013 11:56:40 PM   
aphrochine


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I really would like to get some clarification on what is "acceptable" for PP expenditure. I do not assign units to non-Corps HQs, but I do assign restricted units to Corps HQs and then transfer the Corps out. I restrict my Corps HQ to realistic OOB and once that Corps is built I dont unload it's units and rinse and repeat this technique. That Corps becomes a fighting unit and deployed in a realistic manner and with only rare exception to tweaking it's composition, it remains largely unchanged. I do not use the Corps HQ as a unrestriction elevator. But, I've heard some call this "shady" among other things and declare that "full price" must be observed. So I'd take that you must fill out the ToE of a unit before transfer, so to pay the "full price"?? I think the definition here is blurred, so I just use the mechanics available in a common sense, role playing manner.

I'd really like a dev to share the intent, implemented or not, as to how you're suppose to use PPs transfer units out of restriction.

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RE: HQ attack bonus - 3/21/2013 12:40:49 PM   
HansBolter


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One thing I have often wondered is why the command chain to get the potential 90% bonus from a Command HQ can only be traced through a Corps HQ and not also through an Army HQ. It kind of makes the Army HQs somehwat superfluous as all they can do is add 10%.

Also, has anyone ever confirmed if the 10% Corps and Army bonuses are cummulative?

And again, is the whole Corps/Command link structure bumped up the ranks to Army/Command for the Chinese who don't have any Corps HQs or do they just never get the potential 90% boost?

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RE: HQ attack bonus - 3/21/2013 1:53:41 PM   
rms1pa

 

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quote:

One thing I have often wondered is why the command chain to get the potential 90% bonus from a Command HQ can only be traced through a Corps HQ and not also through an Army HQ. It kind of makes the Army HQs somehwat superfluous as all they can do is add 10%.


range, the corps HQs have a one hex range. army HQs have a 5 hex range.

rms/pa

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RE: HQ attack bonus - 3/21/2013 5:05:18 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rms1pa

quote:

One thing I have often wondered is why the command chain to get the potential 90% bonus from a Command HQ can only be traced through a Corps HQ and not also through an Army HQ. It kind of makes the Army HQs somehwat superfluous as all they can do is add 10%.


range, the corps HQs have a one hex range. army HQs have a 5 hex range.

rms/pa



Yes and if the Command bonus could be passed through the Army HQ down to the Corps HQ, as it should, the effective range of the Command bonus would be increased from 19 hexes to 24.

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RE: HQ attack bonus - 3/21/2013 5:43:26 PM   
jeffk3510


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

quote:

I only try to just for the sake of realism..


I'd do that too. Alas, the prohibitive cost of assigning/re-assigning US Divisions to Corps HQ does not allow that. Even if the assignments are historically correct.
Pure chrome, I know, but it still bothers me that I cannot assign the divs to the correct HQs, at least later in the war.


I understand. I have always wanted to take any units I see and combine them to form new divisions and and new corps...Not create new LCUs that need to be filled out, just combine units that you can't combine in game into historical divisions.


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RE: HQ attack bonus - 3/21/2013 8:11:30 PM   
Blackhorse


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aphro,

I was part of the AE design team, 'tho I wouldn't go so far as to call myself a dev. I was primarily responsible for the US land OOB/TO&E and the US AI. As you can tell, the PP system wasn't quite as finished a product as we all would have liked, when the game was released. The folks who could have been working on PP fixes, among other desired improvements, were instead engaged in herculean efforts to make the AI functional. It was a trade-off.

The current PP structure creates a dilemma for the Allies. If you take advantage of all the loopholes that allow you to buy out air and land units at 1/4 cost, you can deploy them much, much faster than in real life, affecting the balance of play. If, on the other hand, you adopt the "real men pay retail PP" approach, then the allied deployment is much slower than it was historically, again affecting play balance, as this affects the allies more than the Japanese.

The House Rules I'd propose to best align the PP structure in-game with how it was intended to work are:

1. Only unrestricted LCUs can cross national boundaries. (optional exceptions: 1. The Thai Army can move into Burmese hexes south/east of the river that runs past Moulmein. 2. Restricted India Command units can move to and into Akyab)
2. LCUs cannot be attached to Air HQs (optional exceptions: aviation base forces, aviation engineers)
3. The player cannot transfer an unrestricted corps/army/navy headquarters from its assigned headquarters to a different, restricted command HQs, or to any other HQs in that restricted HQs chain-of-command.
4. There are no limits on how to transfer LCUs between unrestricted corps/army/command HQs. (In other words, players should transfer LCUs between unrestricted HQs at the lowest possible PP cost).

Mirror these house rules for air units.

For the allies, these house rules would allow non-permanently restricted LCUs in ABDA/Far East Command, Australia and China to be bought out at 1/4 cost, as well as the two US regiments attached to the Hawaii command. LCUs that start attached to the West Coast, India, USAFFE, Canada or NZ commands (or attached to their subordinate HQs) would have to pay full PPs.

For the Japanese, land units initially assigned to the Kwangtung or General Defense HQs would have to pay full PPs in order to be able to participate in campaigns in China or the Pacific. Land units starting in the Chinese Expeditionary Army would have to pay full PPs to leave China.

Because most restricted Command HQs have unrestricted subordinate air unit HQs, the majority of restricted air units for both the Japanese and Allies could be unrestricted at 1/4 cost.



quote:

ORIGINAL: aphrochine

I really would like to get some clarification on what is "acceptable" for PP expenditure. I do not assign units to non-Corps HQs, but I do assign restricted units to Corps HQs and then transfer the Corps out. I restrict my Corps HQ to realistic OOB and once that Corps is built I dont unload it's units and rinse and repeat this technique. That Corps becomes a fighting unit and deployed in a realistic manner and with only rare exception to tweaking it's composition, it remains largely unchanged. I do not use the Corps HQ as a unrestriction elevator. But, I've heard some call this "shady" among other things and declare that "full price" must be observed. So I'd take that you must fill out the ToE of a unit before transfer, so to pay the "full price"?? I think the definition here is blurred, so I just use the mechanics available in a common sense, role playing manner.

I'd really like a dev to share the intent, implemented or not, as to how you're suppose to use PPs transfer units out of restriction.



< Message edited by Blackhorse -- 3/21/2013 8:23:07 PM >


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(in reply to aphrochine)
Post #: 16
RE: HQ attack bonus - 3/21/2013 11:16:05 PM   
aphrochine


Posts: 187
Joined: 3/24/2008
From: Phoenix, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse
The House Rules I'd propose to best align the PP structure in-game with how it was intended to work are:

1. Only unrestricted LCUs can cross national boundaries. (optional exceptions: 1. The Thai Army can move into Burmese hexes south/east of the river that runs past Moulmein. 2. Restricted India Command units can move to and into Akyab)
2. LCUs cannot be attached to Air HQs (optional exceptions: aviation base forces, aviation engineers)
3. The player cannot transfer an unrestricted corps/army/navy headquarters from its assigned headquarters to a different, restricted command HQs, or to any other HQs in that restricted HQs chain-of-command.
4. There are no limits on how to transfer LCUs between unrestricted corps/army/command HQs. (In other words, players should transfer LCUs between unrestricted HQs at the lowest possible PP cost).

Mirror these house rules for air units.

For the allies, these house rules would allow non-permanently restricted LCUs in ABDA/Far East Command, Australia and China to be bought out at 1/4 cost, as well as the two US regiments attached to the Hawaii command. LCUs that start attached to the West Coast, India, USAFFE, Canada or NZ commands (or attached to their subordinate HQs) would have to pay full PPs.

For the Japanese, land units initially assigned to the Kwangtung or General Defense HQs would have to pay full PPs in order to be able to participate in campaigns in China or the Pacific. Land units starting in the Chinese Expeditionary Army would have to pay full PPs to leave China.

Because most restricted Command HQs have unrestricted subordinate air unit HQs, the majority of restricted air units for both the Japanese and Allies could be unrestricted at 1/4 cost.



Thanks Blackhorse!!

I wasnt implying that this should have been finished (or griping of it's lack of implementation), I understand resource restrictions in development life cycles. I was just aiming for exactly what you provided...some kind of guideline for how it should be used. We're all civilized men afterall, we can agree to usage as long as we have the proper guidelines.

I'm also happy to know that my usage so far has been in line with your above rules.

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Post #: 17
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