Matrix Games Forums

New Screenshots for Pike & ShotDeal of the Week Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations WOTYCommand: Modern Air/Naval Operations WOTY is now available!Frontline : The Longest Day Announced and in Beta!Command gets Wargame of the Year EditionDeal of the Week: Pandora SeriesPandora: Eclipse of Nashira is now availableDistant Worlds Gets another updateHell is Approaching Deal of the Week Battle Academy
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls)

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) Page: <<   < prev  5 6 [7] 8 9   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/25/2012 1:33:34 AM   
Farfarer

 

Posts: 669
Joined: 7/21/2004
Status: offline
In every Sov game I have played I ran into a logistics issue and had to pause. I now don't move more than 5 hexes or so ahead of the railheads, save when I want to send by Tank Corps to exploit, get encircled and surrender :).

More seriously, when the Red Army leaps ahead of the logistics base, at some point, "refit" is not effective and there is insufficient fuel, and Trucks take a beating. I agree with Flav insofar as this logistics "show stopper" comes too late. I'm not sure about quick fixes other than reducing the supply range for the Soviet Union ( burning more trucks), reducing lend lease, or having STAVKA demand many more vehicles. The latter might simulate Stalin's tendency in 1944 + to take military transport away for political ethnic relocations. Perhaps STAVKA could have TOE 'upgrades' in vehicle requirements (large ones) ? This would also make it more costly to rail the Strategic HQ around like an Ice Cream van.

(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 181
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/25/2012 1:52:17 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 6374
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Farfarer

More seriously, when the Red Army leaps ahead of the logistics base, at some point, "refit" is not effective and there is insufficient fuel, and Trucks take a beating. I agree with Flav insofar as this logistics "show stopper" comes too late. I'm not sure about quick fixes other than reducing the supply range for the Soviet Union ( burning more trucks), reducing lend lease, or having STAVKA demand many more vehicles. The latter might simulate Stalin's tendency in 1944 + to take military transport away for political ethnic relocations. Perhaps STAVKA could have TOE 'upgrades' in vehicle requirements (large ones) ? This would also make it more costly to rail the Strategic HQ around like an Ice Cream van.


Bah. Front line refits hardly ever work anyways, regardless. And cavalry and infantry can keep advancing at or near their maximum possible movement rates so long as they aren't in the red supply wise. As long as the rifle and cav corps can do this, it's almost irrelevant how badly hamstrung your mech units are (and they hardly ever reach 50 mps even with full supply.) Nor are the artillery divisions particularly slowed down by distance from a railhead, either. The real backbone of the Red Army just keeps going and going and cavalry can handle exploitation duties even as the newfangled mech stuff is struggling to hit 20 mps. I sometimes wonder if the Soviet could just take a pass entirely on tank and mech corps and build nothing but cavalry corps.


_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to Farfarer)
Post #: 182
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/25/2012 8:08:05 AM   
76mm


Posts: 2104
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Moscow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Farfarer
In every Sov game I have played I ran into a logistics issue and had to pause. I now don't move more than 5 hexes or so ahead of the railheads, save when I want to send by Tank Corps to exploit, get encircled and surrender :).


I have only gotten into attack mode as the Sovs against the AI, but when I've played the AI I've reach Berlin while my railheads still had not crossed the old Sov border. Sure the units were low on supply but they will still able to attack and move reasonably well. Of course it would be more difficult vs a human player, but still something seems very wrong...

(in reply to Farfarer)
Post #: 183
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/25/2012 9:47:39 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5929
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Farfarer

More seriously, when the Red Army leaps ahead of the logistics base, at some point, "refit" is not effective and there is insufficient fuel, and Trucks take a beating. I agree with Flav insofar as this logistics "show stopper" comes too late. I'm not sure about quick fixes other than reducing the supply range for the Soviet Union ( burning more trucks), reducing lend lease, or having STAVKA demand many more vehicles. The latter might simulate Stalin's tendency in 1944 + to take military transport away for political ethnic relocations. Perhaps STAVKA could have TOE 'upgrades' in vehicle requirements (large ones) ? This would also make it more costly to rail the Strategic HQ around like an Ice Cream van.


Bah. Front line refits hardly ever work anyways, regardless. And cavalry and infantry can keep advancing at or near their maximum possible movement rates so long as they aren't in the red supply wise. As long as the rifle and cav corps can do this, it's almost irrelevant how badly hamstrung your mech units are (and they hardly ever reach 50 mps even with full supply.) Nor are the artillery divisions particularly slowed down by distance from a railhead, either. The real backbone of the Red Army just keeps going and going and cavalry can handle exploitation duties even as the newfangled mech stuff is struggling to hit 20 mps. I sometimes wonder if the Soviet could just take a pass entirely on tank and mech corps and build nothing but cavalry corps.


Thats the key to TDV's blizzard exploition. Its unstoppable.

Supplys are irrelevent.

1. Why are cav units so strong?
2by3 answer: Because they have trucks, AA,AT and art.

2. Why does cav need so few supplies or basicly none?
2by3 answer; Because they just have rifles and horses.

There basicly is zero logistics with this game. Once the line is broken both sides can exploit about 50 hexes from railheads.
Poeple playing the GHC side figured this out early on. The SHC side is just now figuring it out. Your right Flaviusx the SHC side only needs a handful of tank/mech units and thats just to zoc hold units. With there being zero supply limits on infantry basicly late war because of the fixed morale timeline. The Russian side can stop building RR at the border.

I pointed these old stale facts out over a yr ago and was ignored.

wite logistics system can easly be fixed under the current sysyem IF someone would take the time and look at the system as a hole.

Anyways its nice to see this has been figured out by someone other then myself. I am guessing MT and a few others also have known this for over a yr, thats why we game the supply system so easly.

Nerfing HQ and muling has done zero to stop the GHC advance, because there is still no logistic system is plase to stop the GHC or SHC.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 6/25/2012 10:00:32 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 184
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/25/2012 3:19:54 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Thats the key to TDV's blizzard exploition. Its unstoppable.

Supplys are irrelevent.

1. Why are cav units so strong?
2by3 answer: Because they have trucks, AA,AT and art.

2. Why does cav need so few supplies or basicly none?
2by3 answer; Because they just have rifles and horses.

There basicly is zero logistics with this game. Once the line is broken both sides can exploit about 50 hexes from railheads.
Poeple playing the GHC side figured this out early on. The SHC side is just now figuring it out. Your right Flaviusx the SHC side only needs a handful of tank/mech units and thats just to zoc hold units. With there being zero supply limits on infantry basicly late war because of the fixed morale timeline. The Russian side can stop building RR at the border.

I pointed these old stale facts out over a yr ago and was ignored.

wite logistics system can easly be fixed under the current sysyem IF someone would take the time and look at the system as a hole.

Anyways its nice to see this has been figured out by someone other then myself. I am guessing MT and a few others also have known this for over a yr, thats why we game the supply system so easly.

Nerfing HQ and muling has done zero to stop the GHC advance, because there is still no logistic system is plase to stop the GHC or SHC.


Cav units do need supply or their movement rate suffers making them in certain circumstances much less effective. Look at the screenshot below.



In both instances, these two cav corps start the turn with zero aupply. They have not moved but as you see fatigue levels start in the 20's and their movement rate is 8. That means they move only one hex into enemy territory and then can't even launch a deliberate attack. The supply needs for a cav corps is in fact a bit more than a rifle division. The supply system by my observation tends to weight the unit-level conversion of general supplies into ammunition rather heavily. Almost all units have more ammo than supply if you look at their values. The result in the case of cav is that they can shoot, but movement is impared when supplies, in this case some of which is horse fodder, are limited. Now in the first blizzard, the general supply situation overall may be better for the Soviets and give the cav the effectiveness desired, but to say cav units need few or no supplies is misleading.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 185
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/25/2012 5:15:27 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 6374
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: online
M60, a cavalry corps in the yellow zone will almost always have a minimum of 16 MPs. What happened in your game was a situation where supply simply didn't exist -- you weren't producing enough of it to cover your nut and had a shortfall.

But if a surplus exist to cover everybody, the generous logistical system will get it there. Only the Soviet mech stuff has real problems, and that hardly matters since the Red Army delivers body blows via rifle corps and arty divisions, and cavalry can exploit almost as well as mechanized, better in adverse terrain.



_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 186
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/25/2012 5:46:29 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: online
Yes, I was refuting the claim that supplies mean little to cav units, nothing more.

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 187
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/25/2012 6:09:26 PM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline
All very interesting but the Axis does not depend on his cav units to make pockets, and what they do need requires fuel, a lot of it.


(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 188
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/25/2012 6:28:23 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: online
I get it.  Post another turn so we don't have to keep talking about boring subjects like Soviet cavalry supply.   

(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 189
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/25/2012 6:34:00 PM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

I get it.  Post another turn so we don't have to keep talking about boring subjects like Soviet cavalry supply.   


Tarhunnas is on holiday and I guess he's to busy drinking cocktails to think about the war
On the upside, doing turn 3 against MT. Quiet different game. And I made a serious error on turn 2, which gave him an opening to cut of almost all of PzG3. The damage isn't to bad (easy supply system you know ) still a serious error on my part.

< Message edited by glvaca -- 6/25/2012 6:35:51 PM >

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 190
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/26/2012 2:53:00 PM   
Manstein63


Posts: 398
Joined: 6/30/2010
Status: offline

[[/quote]

Tarhunnas is on holiday and I guess he's to busy drinking cocktails to think about the war
On the upside, doing turn 3 against MT. Quiet different game. And I made a serious error on turn 2, which gave him an opening to cut of almost all of PzG3. The damage isn't to bad (easy supply system you know ) still a serious error on my part.
[/quote]

I would really like to see that AAR if you ever get a chance to post something
Manstein63

(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 191
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/28/2012 1:16:28 AM   
Farfarer

 

Posts: 669
Joined: 7/21/2004
Status: offline


It official then, I suck :)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Farfarer

More seriously, when the Red Army leaps ahead of the logistics base, at some point, "refit" is not effective and there is insufficient fuel, and Trucks take a beating. I agree with Flav insofar as this logistics "show stopper" comes too late. I'm not sure about quick fixes other than reducing the supply range for the Soviet Union ( burning more trucks), reducing lend lease, or having STAVKA demand many more vehicles. The latter might simulate Stalin's tendency in 1944 + to take military transport away for political ethnic relocations. Perhaps STAVKA could have TOE 'upgrades' in vehicle requirements (large ones) ? This would also make it more costly to rail the Strategic HQ around like an Ice Cream van.


Bah. Front line refits hardly ever work anyways, regardless. And cavalry and infantry can keep advancing at or near their maximum possible movement rates so long as they aren't in the red supply wise. As long as the rifle and cav corps can do this, it's almost irrelevant how badly hamstrung your mech units are (and they hardly ever reach 50 mps even with full supply.) Nor are the artillery divisions particularly slowed down by distance from a railhead, either. The real backbone of the Red Army just keeps going and going and cavalry can handle exploitation duties even as the newfangled mech stuff is struggling to hit 20 mps. I sometimes wonder if the Soviet could just take a pass entirely on tank and mech corps and build nothing but cavalry corps.



(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 192
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/28/2012 2:36:01 AM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 5929
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

sorry for the delay. my honored opponent surrended in the blizzard after my cavalery units pocketed most of his AGS around stalino.

btw: you did a good job against me hooper. i realy can not handle this nasty foreward defending guys.



_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Farfarer)
Post #: 193
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/29/2012 3:25:45 PM   
heliodorus04


Posts: 1402
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline
Glvaca,

My take on this is that you ran a very optimized game as German commander. What I mean by 'optimized' is that you had a very deliberate plan for your logistics path en route to your main 1941 objective, which was Moscow.

As a German-o-phile myself, I saw you doing the two or three things that are essential in the 1941 campaign. You knew where you wanted your main effort rail line to go, and you ensured your combats supported that at all necessary times. You knew how to take big risks effectively in how you extended the motorized, exploitation moves. In point of fact, I do not think I have ever seen a player do better in managing the tip of the spear. I was very surprised at how often you had motorized elements cut off (something I'm deeply afraid of doing), and how you were able to maximize Soviet thrusts to your own advantage (some of that at some point becomes a criticism of your opponent, to be sure). You also managed your refit of damaged motorized elements extremely effectively, and I think this is an under-appreciated point in the discussion of how effective your penetration moves were. Super. Well. Done.

As far as Soviet criticisms, I think there have been sufficient number of those given. I do want to emphasize that in my view, the Soviet 1941 defense must focus on army size and industry evacuation, not territorial positions. You manage territory, you defend your industry and your army.

I do feel that this AAR demonstrates the importance of knowing the weather on the 1941 campaign. There is a huge difference in the necessary German mindset when playing with random weather. Any number of penetrations, whether at Kiev or at Velikye Luki, or at Stalino area - could have been turned into serious fights for survival if mud had hit in between turns in those moments.

In my opinion, random whether forces German motorized elements to tether themselves to a much more realistic (in terms of 1941 history) flank security position when penetrating. The change may mean 5 or 10 hexes of ground in a pincer. In other words, what you can do in 1 turn will require 2, and what you can do in 2 turns will require 3. This plays to the Soviet capabilities well, since they can move faster east than the German in such an environment.

But as I say that, I am left to wonder whether a random-weather campaign makes it impossible for Germany to achieve the necessary results that preserve a competitive position into 1942 and 1943.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 194
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/29/2012 5:24:21 PM   
Schmart

 

Posts: 652
Joined: 9/13/2010
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04
But as I say that, I am left to wonder whether a random-weather campaign makes it impossible for Germany to achieve the necessary results that preserve a competitive position into 1942 and 1943.


Random weather also makes it impossible for the Russians to maximize their first Blizzard counter-offensive, which is of course a considerable benifit for the Axis. It's give and take.

(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 195
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/29/2012 6:19:26 PM   
Seminole


Posts: 492
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: offline
quote:

In my opinion, random whether forces German motorized elements to tether themselves to a much more realistic (in terms of 1941 history) flank security position when penetrating.


You mean without ahistorical perfect knowledge of future weather the Germans can't do gamey things? Perish the thought!

quote:

I am left to wonder whether a random-weather campaign makes it impossible for Germany to achieve the necessary results that preserve a competitive position into 1942 and 1943.


I'm about to start a new AAR, once we get a few more turns in.
My German opponent eschewed rapid reduction of early pockets, and formed them loosely enough that I repeatedly broke them by mere maneuver. Consequently on turn 2 I managed to isolate virtually all of Hoth and Guderian's panzer/motorized forces. He easily linked back up on turn 3, but rain hit on turn 4 and again 2nd and 3rd Panzer Armee are twiddling their thumbs waiting for fuel. I think failure to reduce the pockets has also impeded his rail construction, compounding the problem. It will be interesting to see if he can bounce back or if the game has effectively been decided in less than a month.
The shape of the central Soviet weather zone also essentially forced him to divert 1st Panzer Armee toward Odessa, but problems with the Lvov pocket have also retarded his rail development significantly in this sector.

I still think mud, at least insofar as it affects supply movement costs, should be cumulative in the manner that ice levels are now.

(in reply to Schmart)
Post #: 196
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/29/2012 8:21:55 PM   
heliodorus04


Posts: 1402
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole

quote:

In my opinion, random whether forces German motorized elements to tether themselves to a much more realistic (in terms of 1941 history) flank security position when penetrating.


You mean without ahistorical perfect knowledge of future weather the Germans can't do gamey things? Perish the thought!

quote:

I am left to wonder whether a random-weather campaign makes it impossible for Germany to achieve the necessary results that preserve a competitive position into 1942 and 1943.


I'm about to start a new AAR, once we get a few more turns in.
My German opponent eschewed rapid reduction of early pockets, and formed them loosely enough that I repeatedly broke them by mere maneuver. Consequently on turn 2 I managed to isolate virtually all of Hoth and Guderian's panzer/motorized forces. He easily linked back up on turn 3, but rain hit on turn 4 and again 2nd and 3rd Panzer Armee are twiddling their thumbs waiting for fuel. I think failure to reduce the pockets has also impeded his rail construction, compounding the problem. It will be interesting to see if he can bounce back or if the game has effectively been decided in less than a month.
The shape of the central Soviet weather zone also essentially forced him to divert 1st Panzer Armee toward Odessa, but problems with the Lvov pocket have also retarded his rail development significantly in this sector.

I still think mud, at least insofar as it affects supply movement costs, should be cumulative in the manner that ice levels are now.


It does sound like your game versus your German opponent is 'over' in the competitive sense, based on how you describe it.

I think that last point is a really great idea, in fact it's a "why didn't they think of that sooner" idea.

As far as Random weather balancing out the blizzard in 1941/1942, I'm not sure the Soviets suffer as much loss of critical offensive orientation for a turn of snow that the Germans "might" lose with random weather.

But it's also not simply the Soviet offensive that causes Germany the biggest problems - it's simply the "blizzard in Dec/Jan/Feb" condition which hurts so much, and that is a very big help for Germany when it does occur.

(in reply to Seminole)
Post #: 197
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/29/2012 10:15:48 PM   
Schmart

 

Posts: 652
Joined: 9/13/2010
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04
But it's also not simply the Soviet offensive that causes Germany the biggest problems - it's simply the "blizzard in Dec/Jan/Feb" condition which hurts so much, and that is a very big help for Germany when it does occur.


Yes, you're right. I forgot to mention that. The one turn respite from the Blizzard effects can give a big boost to the Axis, especially if it happens in December.

(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 198
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 7/6/2012 12:15:30 PM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04

Glvaca,

My take on this is that you ran a very optimized game as German commander. What I mean by 'optimized' is that you had a very deliberate plan for your logistics path en route to your main 1941 objective, which was Moscow.

As a German-o-phile myself, I saw you doing the two or three things that are essential in the 1941 campaign. You knew where you wanted your main effort rail line to go, and you ensured your combats supported that at all necessary times. You knew how to take big risks effectively in how you extended the motorized, exploitation moves. In point of fact, I do not think I have ever seen a player do better in managing the tip of the spear. I was very surprised at how often you had motorized elements cut off (something I'm deeply afraid of doing), and how you were able to maximize Soviet thrusts to your own advantage (some of that at some point becomes a criticism of your opponent, to be sure). You also managed your refit of damaged motorized elements extremely effectively, and I think this is an under-appreciated point in the discussion of how effective your penetration moves were. Super. Well. Done.

As far as Soviet criticisms, I think there have been sufficient number of those given. I do want to emphasize that in my view, the Soviet 1941 defense must focus on army size and industry evacuation, not territorial positions. You manage territory, you defend your industry and your army.

I do feel that this AAR demonstrates the importance of knowing the weather on the 1941 campaign. There is a huge difference in the necessary German mindset when playing with random weather. Any number of penetrations, whether at Kiev or at Velikye Luki, or at Stalino area - could have been turned into serious fights for survival if mud had hit in between turns in those moments.

In my opinion, random whether forces German motorized elements to tether themselves to a much more realistic (in terms of 1941 history) flank security position when penetrating. The change may mean 5 or 10 hexes of ground in a pincer. In other words, what you can do in 1 turn will require 2, and what you can do in 2 turns will require 3. This plays to the Soviet capabilities well, since they can move faster east than the German in such an environment.

But as I say that, I am left to wonder whether a random-weather campaign makes it impossible for Germany to achieve the necessary results that preserve a competitive position into 1942 and 1943.


To the new Helio,

Luckily I was seated when reading this although, granted, it would have been unlikely I would not
It's good to read that you can actually be constructive and it becomes you well I would say.

Random weather is a deathblow to German chances in 1941. Although the chance on paper seems low, I have not seen less than the full effects in the 2 games I was stupid enough to accept the random weather option. I still hope 2by3 will see the sense of a 1941/winter 1942 fixed weather followed by the normal random weather charts.

Anyway, I hope I have proved to you the German counters are certainly up to providing a challenge to any forward defence. It all depends on patience and preparations. Avoid feeling rushed. Strike when ready. Only strike for decisive effect. Take chances when decisive results can be achieved, avoid otherwise.
In Air to Air combat there is a saying, move slow to kill fast. The same applies to the German in this game.

Cheers,
Glenn

(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 199
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 7/13/2012 10:38:59 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: glvaca
Tarhunnas is on holiday and I guess he's to busy drinking cocktails to think about the war


Longest holiday I ever heard of.

(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 200
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 7/16/2012 2:31:47 AM   
Fishbed


Posts: 1649
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline
Oops sorry wrong topic

< Message edited by Fishbed -- 7/16/2012 2:33:09 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 201
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 10/13/2012 10:33:04 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline
Although it's been a long time since I updated this game it has been continuing at a steady pace bar approx. 1 month when real life did not allow for gaming on my side.

The end of turn 17 sees the complete reduction of the Moscow pocket and the Soviet side dropping to less than 2.8 million men under arms.
Moscow has fallen. Leningrad is completely isolated. Tula, Kharkov & Stalino have been conquered & 4th Army is 2 hexes away from Voronezh.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by glvaca -- 10/13/2012 12:18:49 PM >

(in reply to Fishbed)
Post #: 202
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 10/13/2012 10:34:08 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline
End Turn 17 Moscow area




Attachment (1)

(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 203
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 10/13/2012 11:09:13 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline
TURNS 18 THROUGH 21
With mud a strange, uncomfortable silence decends on the Russian front and perhaps it is not a bad moment to take stock of the summer campaign.
All-in-all I don't think I'm exaggerating when I state that I have had a very successfull summer campaign and have been able to deal a crippling blow to the Soviet forces & its chances during Blizzard, perhaps even during 1942 IF I can ride out the Blizzard "well enough".

This leads to optimistic thinking at OKH for the coming Blizzard and several plans are made on the assumtion that the Wehrmacht is strong enough to fend of the coming Soviet blows at the high water mark of the advance. In the last few clear turns RR work is geared towards this assumption & the line Tula-Orel-Kursk-Kharkov is given priority for conversion. But even so, the RR situation of the stretch in between Tula & Kharkov & to the West is extreemly bad. Moscow itself is already close to or incorporated in the Rail net.

The first turn of mud, or rather it's effect on the supply lines raises the first doubts at OKH. Many parts of the front are at the extreem end of the supply line (yellow) or, to the East of Stalino, completely out of supply. I'm sure everyone knows that bad supply state= low supply stocks = very slow fort construction, only aggrevated by mud. As such digging in at the front line is slow.

Complicating matters is that the battles for Moscow & Leningrad have created in a surplus of divisions in the stretch between those 2 Cities while again the stretch between Tula-Kharkov is lightly held with simply not enough troops & supply available to construct a defensive line in the frontline let alone fall-back positions in the rear. I have much to consider.

One other notable decision I take is to heavily refit the wehrmachts infantry divisions during the mud & coming snow turns. As a result most (if not all) divisions going into the blizzard are close to full TOE and rested. I realize this is perhaps against current convention on the subject but it makes perfect sense to me to be as strong as you can possibly be at your moment of greatest weakness.






< Message edited by glvaca -- 10/14/2012 12:11:52 PM >

(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 204
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 10/13/2012 11:38:59 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline
TURNS 22 THROUGH 24
During snow I have several objectives.

NORTH
I & II Corps, rested and refitted during mud, assaults Leningrad and captures it without problems. The elite divisions of these corps are used as garrison while they train & refit over the winter, at least that is the plan.

The rest of 16th, 9th & 18th Armies & the Fins press East, SE, NE to reduce the bulge that still exists centered on the Valdai. It's objective is to push forward as fast and far as possible in order to capture as much defensible terrain, and reduce the frontage as much as possible. These Armies will be fighting up until blizzard and will have to digin as they stand. The operation succeeds very well and strong winter lines are captured at the end of the offensive.

CENTER & SOUTH
No worthwhile offensive operations are performed. It has now become clear that the forward line cannot be held East of Moscow and further South to Voronezh & Kharkov, as it is just not receiving enough supplies. I decide to retreat is in order and make a serious mistake in starting the retreat to soon. IIRC, I started retreating on turn 22. I should have waited to turn 24 or 25. This decision will influence the winter campaign heavily.

From the Black Sea to Stalino and upwards to Belgorod & strong line is constructed which is in reasonable supply. The 3 Rumanian mountain brigades are assigned responsibility for holding the stetch of terrain South of Stalino to the black Sea. The 2 German mountain divs and the Hugarian mountain brig. are assigned the stretch between North of Stalino & Belgorod. Both forces will prove their worth during the winter.

The Crimea is evaquated during snow & is locked of by 2 German divs, the Italians & some Rumanians.

Approx. 10 Panzer/Mot divisions are railed out to Germany. All excess airbases are put into towns 4 or above. 16 elite infantry divisions are located in Germany or occupy positions where blizzard effects are negated. This is my first Blizzard as the German player in a long time so I don't really have an elaborate strategy. Basically, I intend to fight for every inch of ground between Leningrad & South of Moscow. Between Tula & Belgorod I intend to fall back and screen with elements of 4th & 17th Armies. With some Allied forces thrown in the mix. From Belgorod to the Black Sea I intend again to defend every inch & counter attack when possible.

Backing up the lines are several cities (and of course Moscow) which are very close to the front lines. These are filled to capacity by elite units on reserve and/or to counter attack any penetrations that might be dangerous.

Overview end turn 24




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by glvaca -- 10/14/2012 12:16:14 PM >

(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 205
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 10/13/2012 11:44:34 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline
OOB end Turn 24




Attachment (1)

(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 206
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 10/13/2012 11:45:58 AM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline
Losses:





Attachment (1)

(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 207
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 10/13/2012 12:08:18 PM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline
TURN 25
Situation maps end turn 25. Blizzard starting positions.

NORTH
The Fins are racing to the front to start the only blizzard offensive of my own. The intend is to draw of as much Soviet forces as possible.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 208
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 10/13/2012 12:08:53 PM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline
MOSCOW AREA




Attachment (1)

(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 209
RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 10/13/2012 12:10:35 PM   
glvaca

 

Posts: 1109
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline
TULA TO VORONEZH
The weak area...




Attachment (1)

(in reply to glvaca)
Post #: 210
Page:   <<   < prev  5 6 [7] 8 9   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) Page: <<   < prev  5 6 [7] 8 9   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.129