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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls)

 
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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/7/2012 11:11:07 AM   
glvaca

 

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Air losses.




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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/7/2012 11:12:15 AM   
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Prod.




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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/7/2012 11:15:02 AM   
glvaca

 

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Units lost.
He's losing a ton of Armoured and Motorized divs. I wonder if that may not hurt his vehicle pool...




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< Message edited by glvaca -- 6/7/2012 11:33:22 AM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/7/2012 12:49:46 PM   
glvaca

 

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TURN 6

NORTH & CENTER
The pocket HOLDS!
Tarhunnas tries only one counter attack against the 900 Lehr brig. but is repulsed with heavy loss. 200 fighters and 50 bombers arrive in support which perhaps dissuades him from trying again.
In response to the breakthrough, Tarhannus shifts his Leningrad shield to his left, protecting the backdoor. In the Center he is forced to extend his right flank in an effort to protect the road to Rzhev. This leaves him short handed on his right before Pskov however. 18th Army is ordered to push NE and take advantage of this.
16th Army from the West and North starts reducing the pocket, 9th Army does the same from the South.
Several Panzer divs will be employed for this task as well from the East. I generally try to avoid this, but a further advance East would be unwise at this time. I need to consolidate my hold, free the RR to VL and fuel up.





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< Message edited by glvaca -- 6/7/2012 3:59:05 PM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/7/2012 1:07:10 PM   
glvaca

 

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SOUTH
True to form, he stands! Although he retreats a couple of hexes he stays within reach.
Even better, he seems to drain his left flank achored on Odessa to shore up his Center giving me a lightly held 3 by 3 hexes area defended only by Airborn brigs. 11th Army Infantry is ordered to clear the way as much as possible for XXXXVI Pz Corps to exploit. Recon only reveals 1 unit in Odessa, this might be wrong or it might be the FZ which starts there, or it might be something else entirely. Still, worth to check out.

Behind his lines he has a ton of airbases within reach. All of them have a considerable amount of damaged airplanes which will be lost when he is forced to displace. Yummie!

Although the Center has been shored up, from his dispositions it seems he is most concerned with a drive straight ahead towards the Dnepr just South of Kiev, in simulation of what MichealT did in his other game. I have no intention of doing that as it would not yield dicisive results quickly and put me in a very bad supply situation. With the intended operation, if successfull, I will completely demolish his left and part of his center in the South. That will hurt! More-over, I will be in good supply after the operation whcih could allow for a rapid exploitation towards D & Z-town. Nonetheless, several infantry Corps are ordered to launch secondary attacks on his right and part of his center to keep up the pressure.




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< Message edited by glvaca -- 6/7/2012 3:07:03 PM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/7/2012 1:13:12 PM   
glvaca

 

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Starting strength Panzers turn 6.
The turn of R&R has done wonders for the Southern Panzers and they are ready for the operation.
In the North & Center, the Panzers are still ok, but some will need some rehabilitation before the next operation.




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< Message edited by glvaca -- 6/7/2012 2:26:46 PM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/7/2012 2:41:27 PM   
timmyab

 

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You've set up a good opportunity here in the South.difficult to judge exactly without knowing your fuel situation or whether the screenshot includes any air recon, but there may even be an opportunity to grab a bridgehead over the Dniepr just South of Cherkassy.

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/7/2012 2:54:15 PM   
glvaca

 

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Yup, but I'm cautious against Tuhannus. He doesn't hesitate to sacrifice units to break pockets and he's got a ton of Cav divs in the neighbourhood.
The plan goes mainly as on the picture, just waiting for Tarhunnas his reply to post results. He's currently doing turn 6.
The pictures include recon.

< Message edited by glvaca -- 6/7/2012 3:32:54 PM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/8/2012 4:42:49 PM   
glvaca

 

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SOUTH CONTINUED

The operation goes exactly as planned and his lines are effortly broken giving me plenty of movement and units to exploit. I focus on depth and width and cutting RR lines as deep behind his lines as I can go.
Infantry is rushing forward to take over from the Panzers next turn.
Lvov pocket is cleaned out.
The last stuborn remant of the Kovel pocket finally surrenders.

SS is ending position.






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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/8/2012 4:49:57 PM   
glvaca

 

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NORTH & CENTER CONTINUED

The VL pocket is seriously reduced in size and units. All in all I think this will net me around 300K in Russian prisoners and dead. Much more than I expected.
The final Airborn brig. dies in the Madona pocket.
Overall, a very good cleanup turn around the Pripjet Marshes and elsewhere. A lot of lose ends tied up this turn.

Around Smolensk, I put pressure on the East side of the Dnepr from my bridgehead and generally put pressure with infantry and Panzers, direction East and probing his defences.
4th Army is approaching the Dnepr further South.
XII Corps from 2nd PzG is moved out of the swamps and replaced by a weaker Corps from 4th Army.




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< Message edited by glvaca -- 6/9/2012 2:42:19 PM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/8/2012 4:53:20 PM   
glvaca

 

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ORGANIZATIONAL

I continue assigning better leaders & SU's to key Corps as I go along.
2nd Army currently only has 6 inf. divs in 2 Corps but several OKH divisions are on the way from flank duty on the Pripjet.
2 Rum. inf and 1 cav Brig are transferred from 11th Army to OKH.

The Luftwaffe bomber and fighter units are showing signs of fatigue and some rotation is in order.

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/8/2012 5:07:56 PM   
glvaca

 

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TURN 7

SOUTH
He breaks the pocket!! RATS!
3 attacks shift breakdowns of a panzer division tasked with protecting the flank. Each time 3+ bombing runs soften up the defenders and this even while having 150 fighter close at hand. JG3 is urgently in need of rotation for some rest. Trouble is, I don't really have reserve units. However, with the breaking open of the Southern front JG77, still fresh, is in a position to take over.

Furhter North, he attacks several breakdowns and a div. Pushing them back but without great losses.

All in all, I think his decision to stand and fight versus retreating is more to my advantage than his. I'm sure that the successful combats gave him a good feeling, but as I have experienced myself on several occasions, it will be only temporary relief.

Below screenshot before German moves but after recon.






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< Message edited by glvaca -- 6/9/2012 3:07:48 AM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/9/2012 10:51:13 AM   
glvaca

 

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NORTH & CENTER

Again he shows no intention of leaving the Dnepr line...




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< Message edited by glvaca -- 6/9/2012 12:41:02 PM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/9/2012 11:01:35 AM   
glvaca

 

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NORTH & CENTER CONTINUED

After German moves.
With the infantry at the front in strength, I decide to let the infantry do the talking. Grinding attacks in the North and along the Dnepr line inflict serious casualties on the weak Russian line. Not many units break, but morale, readiness and strength get a beating.
In the North, 1 Pz Corps exploits a few hexes to capture good defensive terrain.

In the Center, 4x Pz Corps go in hiding in woods, and get some R&R to prepare for the next operation next turn.
The Dnepr bend bridgehead is reinforced and enlarged. If he stays, his center is going to be in trouble.
The VL pocket is cleaned up. Panzers are relieved by 9th Army infantry. Oddly, he commits a ton of units in the swamps between VL & Novgorod to threaten my supply lines while his MLR is pretty weak. Surely, there has to come a time when defending what is important must take precedence over secondary or even tertiary objectives?
4th Army crosses the Dnepr, finishes of a Cav Div. and finally has a solid screen around the Northern pripjet to prevent incursions.




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< Message edited by glvaca -- 6/9/2012 2:44:45 PM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/9/2012 11:09:40 AM   
glvaca

 

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SOUTH CONTINUED

The pocket may have been broken, I'm doubtful he's actually going to gain a lot from it. The attacking divisions are either pushed back into the first pocket or herded into a new pocket slightly NE. Another 15 div. including Cav and Mountain inf. are pushed into a 5 hexes kessel with very little hope of relief. The panzers exploit basically at will and Cherkassy is overrun although I decide not to cross the Dnepr itself.

The Odessa pocket is almost cleaned up. I estimate another 300k to 400k of Soviets waiting to go to the prison camps.
Surely, he must know it's time for him to leave or face utter distruction...




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< Message edited by glvaca -- 6/9/2012 11:14:31 AM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/9/2012 11:16:02 AM   
glvaca

 

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Losses




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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/9/2012 11:16:28 AM   
glvaca

 

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OOB





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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/9/2012 11:17:40 AM   
glvaca

 

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Air losses




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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/9/2012 11:19:48 AM   
glvaca

 

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Units lost




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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/9/2012 11:21:15 AM   
glvaca

 

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Prod.
I just noticed that in the current game version, the German starting ARMS is reduced from 300k previously to only 100K!
I'm already running very low on ARMS after 7 turns of light losses!






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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/9/2012 11:35:12 AM   
glvaca

 

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TURN 8

CENTER
Before German moves but with recon.
He stays, although he does fall back a couple of hexes, leaving just pickets at the front. The planned operation will be more difficult but the Panzers are in good overall shape with all between 30 and 45 movement available.
As usual, the plan is for the infantry to clear the way for the Panzers as much as possible.
East of Smolensk, I'll have to fight to cross the Dnepr which could prove difficult. We'll just have to wait and see.




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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/9/2012 11:49:05 AM   
glvaca

 

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SOUTH
Starting positions after recon.
The pockets hold & the killing can begin. What's more, he retreats behind the Dnepr.




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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/9/2012 11:56:46 AM   
glvaca

 

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Oddly, he keeps his positions NW of Kiev on the West bank of the Dnepr.
Recon reveals how weak his defenses are around Cherkassy and, as a result, he's basically inviting me to cross and swing 1st PzG behind his Dnepr line. I'm probably not going to be able to make a pocket just yet, but the general weakness of the Soviet army at this stage allows me to be bold without having to worry too much about his potential counter moves. Some divisions may be temporary cut off but that will have to be accepted.

From what I can tell, the Kiev grouping is the last Soviet force of note in the South.
The next few turns not much Soviet reinforcements arrive and his TOE upgrades will reduce the strength of his divisions.
Overall, things are looking very bleak for Tarhunnas.





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< Message edited by glvaca -- 6/9/2012 12:17:37 PM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/9/2012 3:22:00 PM   
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Nice work - it will be interesting to see how this match pans out as a complement to the MT / Tarhunnas match - here Tarhunnas not operating under restrictions and as such has been free to use his style of fighting forward. I'm a bit sad to see him getting thrashed so badly, particularly in the South - I like a fighting defense early on as well but am quickly coming to the conclusion it's a hopeless gambit against a skilled German opponent.

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/9/2012 3:40:38 PM   
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I guess I see this game a bit differently. While Tarhunnas has been getting hammered army wise, the Germans are running out of time and have not captured enough territory. I am sure Tarhunnas has easily been able to evacuate industry in most cases as well. It is turn 8 and the Germans are still not across the Dnepr in the south (they will be likely after this turn, but still). It took them until turn 6 something to capture Pskov, which is slow imo. With 16th and 18th army dispersed across the map, there will not be a concentrated drive on Leningrad at this point and AGC's northern flank will be long if there is to be a continued drive on Moscow. Should PG1 make a drive to the north and capture the area behind the swamps, so be it, but that also means the Germans will likely not get to the Stalino area before winter either.

Don't get me wrong; this is a great AAR, but IMO, I think the Germans are behind schedule here.

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/9/2012 3:58:18 PM   
Flaviusx


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I'm not sure how this is going to develop, myself. Tarhunnas is stalling well, but his losses are starting to blow up on him here somewhat. Those pockets in the south are no joke.

Then again, he's got a ton of room down south to play with. As long as his front doesn't collapse further north, then he's got the edge I suppose. Leningrad is somewhat behind schedule here, but the Axis still has plenty of time to take that and then mass on Moscow with 3 panzer groups.



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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/9/2012 9:54:37 PM   
glvaca

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

I guess I see this game a bit differently. While Tarhunnas has been getting hammered army wise, the Germans are running out of time and have not captured enough territory. I am sure Tarhunnas has easily been able to evacuate industry in most cases as well. It is turn 8 and the Germans are still not across the Dnepr in the south (they will be likely after this turn, but still). It took them until turn 6 something to capture Pskov, which is slow imo. With 16th and 18th army dispersed across the map, there will not be a concentrated drive on Leningrad at this point and AGC's northern flank will be long if there is to be a continued drive on Moscow. Should PG1 make a drive to the north and capture the area behind the swamps, so be it, but that also means the Germans will likely not get to the Stalino area before winter either.

Don't get me wrong; this is a great AAR, but IMO, I think the Germans are behind schedule here.


I guess it depends on what schedule you're on
IF your schedule is purely taking terrain at this or that turn, and if not, you are behind schedule, than sure, I'm behind schedule.
To follow your example though, I could have taken Pskov on turn 4, if I had wanted. But I chose to deblock the situation in the Center and create an approx. Front like pocket netting me 300k+ in dead Soviets before I started the advance on Leningrad. If I wouldn't have done so, I'd be protecting the same flank I am now only against a lot more Soviets willing to infiltrate at every opportunity.

I just finished turn 9, the counter stands at 2.5 million Soviet casualties. That's my schedule, and I'm ahead.

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/9/2012 9:58:28 PM   
glvaca

 

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SOUTH CONTINUED
As anticipated I don't form a pocket but do manage to cut or block his main RR lines so a retreat will be difficult.




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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/9/2012 10:02:32 PM   
glvaca

 

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CENTER CONTINUED

The Center operation goes well, although it proved difficult to cross the Dnepr East of Smolensk, I nonetheless manage to form 2 pockets.
I don't have high hopes they will hold though so this will most likely become a more protracted ops as I would like. Still, yet another 2 armies are doomed.

4th Army makes good progress towards Gomel, ready to extend a hand towards 1st PzG.





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< Message edited by glvaca -- 6/9/2012 10:03:16 PM >

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RE: Tackling the Russian bear (No Tarhunnas pls) - 6/9/2012 10:12:23 PM   
glvaca

 

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NORTH CONTINUED
The grinding match towards Leningrad continues and is heavily influenced by a hold of a valiant armoured div and a brigade who repulse a deliberate attack of the Totenkopff and the 6th Panzer. Both divisions were in excellent shape but the combat engine has become much more unpredictable than before. Quality seems to matter little these days, just numbers.

On the subject of the combat engine, I'm suffering many more helds in this version than any other version before. Many sure combats previously are now a crap shoot. Combat values can vary so extreme it's just not funny any more.

Likewise, morale gain for infantry has been reduced very clearly. Morale loss for a stupid held is almost a certainty. The 6th Pz for example, has dropped below 86+ because of 6 helds but has won 18. Annoying.

Anyway, as a result of the hold I'm unable to further exploit and content myself with consolidating my hold on the territory just won and cross the Luga to the NW.
16th Armies II and XXX Corps are moving up, as is 4 PzG's XIII Corps.





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< Message edited by glvaca -- 6/9/2012 11:33:28 PM >

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