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RE: COMMAND OPS : LEGENDS OF THE BLITZKRIEG - An Introduction

 
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RE: COMMAND OPS : LEGENDS OF THE BLITZKRIEG - An Introd... - 6/19/2012 1:41:37 PM   
wodin


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Your correct about PZC, However the way CO plays out and the map scale etc it is definitely more grand tactical than operational. You have to think of coy tactics rather than just the big picture as the game isn't as abstracted terrain wise in your Hex based games. Seriously I'm on your side I just view CO games differently than your hex based Coy wargames. Also Combat Command even though it's hex based has a more tactical feel I believe.

You mention army corps, in CO. I see again where your coming from but I play it usually at battalion level and at times micromanage Coy's to get them in the right tactical areas. Also the game when you set an attack to a battalion will set out in a tactic la formation. Another thing is this Platoon game will play out very similar and I expect you will be giving orders to Coy HQ's as it still isn't the scale from the looks of it where you'd micromanage single platoons.

Not sure if you can see what I mean. Yes LOTB will be smaller scale units but it will still play out the same and the reason this can happen is because CO has a more tactical bent already than operational. Thats why the engine wont need any changes as such just a more zoomed in terrain. Again though not enough where you will be doing house to house fighting or even City fighting to the detail some tactical games go for.

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RE: COMMAND OPS : LEGENDS OF THE BLITZKRIEG - An Introd... - 6/19/2012 2:33:49 PM   
Hexagon

 

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Well, my point of view about tactical/operational is part of my game experience... my first PC game was the old "Civil War" of Empire (it has all levels in 1 game but separated) but from... 1997 to... 2004 i only play tactical games... start in "Steel Panthers" move to Close Combat after this and here were my main playtime (good all times hehehe).

I dont know very well Command Ops game engine (i read AARs) but for me when i need take decisions over tactical level i play it as operational... of course sometimes tactical/operational are mixed (take that village to secure your cops flank...) and as you say looks like Command Ops allow players to move at lower level but finally victory is in big decisions, the operational level, not in tactical fights.

Is interesting for me see how works the game... i find it very interesting for my, i am now with Achtung Panzer OS and like it but no multiplayer and even if i like 3D i have the problem that i prefer see action than give orders, this is why 2D is more "hardcore".

PD: one of the best moments i have in wargames vs humans was in PzC, i manage to move 3 weak panzer divisions into a forest in soviet attack flank holding a loooong line with a thin infantry line, wait the perfect moment to launch them and destroy 3 tank brigades, 1 infantry division and isolated other units... a total disaster for soviet player because he lose practically all troops in the attack line and he need move troops from all the front to prevent a total break... i plan the attack in tactical level (study terrain to prevent be stopped and where launch spearheads) but operational level was who puts the units in the perfect position.

< Message edited by Hexagon -- 6/19/2012 2:36:37 PM >

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New screen shots - 6/22/2012 1:26:26 PM   
Bil H


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Thought I would upload a few images that were originally posted here: http://kriegsimulation.blogspot.com/ chek out Chelco's write up on the game if you haven't had a chance.

This image shows a German Shutzen Company and a Panzer Company (light) on the Watten map.




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RE: New screen shots - 6/22/2012 1:34:26 PM   
Bil H


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This series shows the map at the 4m per pixel zoom level, with immediately below that what the 100m movement grid looks like, this is the movement grid used in all previous incarnations of Command Ops, and at the bottom the 30m movement grid... I am experimenting with different grid sizes currently, and wanted to show how fine the movement grid could get. These grids show movement for vehicles.. there is a different movement grid for infantry.

Movement grids work like this, black = 100% movement (ie. roads, highways), white = no movement, shades of gray indicate better or worse movement, darker = better, lighter gray = worse.





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< Message edited by Bil H -- 6/22/2012 4:51:52 PM >


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RE: New screen shots - 6/22/2012 4:36:36 PM   
wodin


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Well I've never been as excited with regards to new wargame releases as I am now, we have this and the big announcement over at Battlefornt. Infact I have known a week of announcements like it for us tactical wargamers.

Screenshots look great.

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RE: New screen shots - 6/24/2012 5:58:44 PM   
wodin


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Bil do you have any new screenies?

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RE: New screen shots - 6/24/2012 7:38:58 PM   
Chaudart


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Great news!!!
I look forward this new game!!
Thanks.

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RE: New screen shots - 7/13/2012 10:20:13 PM   
general_solomon

 

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any chance of a gameplay video? i cant wait to play this game. love the small unit games.

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RE: New screen shots - 9/5/2012 11:20:53 PM   
z1812


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This looks like a must buy for me.

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RE: New screen shots - 9/6/2012 8:22:24 AM   
wodin


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Bill any news mate? Hows it going so far. Thanks.

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RE: New screen shots - 9/9/2012 2:37:22 PM   
Bil H


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Hey Wodin, making progress. Awaiting some code fixes currently, so we are in the meantime capturing data and creating maps.

Bil

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Post #: 71
RE: New screen shots - 9/9/2012 9:56:41 PM   
wodin


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Excellent.

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RE: New screen shots - 9/9/2012 10:15:40 PM   
danlongman

 

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Patience I tells myself. Say the serenity prayer.

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RE: COMMAND OPS : LEGENDS OF THE BLITZKRIEG - An Introd... - 11/2/2012 8:00:56 PM   
JiminyJickers


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Just saw it after it was mentioned on Rock Paper Shotgun. Very much looking forward to this. Will be keeping a close eye on this one and my wallet is ready.

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RE: COMMAND OPS : LEGENDS OF THE BLITZKRIEG - An Introd... - 11/2/2012 8:17:12 PM   
wodin


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It will be great I'm certain of it.

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RE: COMMAND OPS : LEGENDS OF THE BLITZKRIEG - An Introd... - 11/2/2012 9:10:12 PM   
JudgeDredd


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disclaimer - I haven't read the whole thread...

This sounds great BilH. I wish you well with it.

I've always thought if it could be tactical then it would have a strong appeal.

Battalion/Regiment at platoon size seems kind of contradictory to your statement "I personally prefer smaller scenarios" though I would've thought.

But I'd certainly be interested in this. Good luck and I'll keep popping in to check progress.

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RE: COMMAND OPS : LEGENDS OF THE BLITZKRIEG - An Introd... - 11/3/2012 8:37:48 PM   
wodin


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JD I think platoon size with say 1 or 2 battalions would be low unit count..but maybe regimental wouldn't be so small.

Either way I'm really looking forward to it..and the map art is a joy to look at, crisp and clean.

JD I doubt we'd be disappointed. Oh also JD did you ever buy Thunderbolt\Apache leader? Seems like many say it's the best leader game yet. I have my beady eye on it. Though I also have it on the Hornet leader game aswell..also Phantom leader is being redone..I prefer the Phantom leader era jets..but not sure about the amount of air to air that went on..not to keen on the Hornet leader theaters, nor some of the Thunderbolt theaters either. DO you still play your leader games?

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RE: COMMAND OPS : LEGENDS OF THE BLITZKRIEG - An Introd... - 11/3/2012 10:02:48 PM   
JudgeDredd


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Yeah - it seems I was getting my platoons and sections mixed up.

I did get TAL - and it is a great game. much more "tactical" than the others - given you have ground to manouver around (hex sides with hills to avoid etc).

I have all 3 and it's difficult to say which one is my favourite - they all have something different and appealing. With Phantom Leader it's the limited ordinance and the era - LOVE Vietnam era. With Hornet Leader it's the massive scale of what you have and what you can carry. With TAL - it's the extra tactical element - though the Apache seems to be hindered with it's loadout...no Hellfires!

Knowing what I know now, if I didn't have any of them but could only get one - in all honesty I think the money would have to go to Phantom Leader.

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RE: COMMAND OPS : LEGENDS OF THE BLITZKRIEG - An Introd... - 11/3/2012 10:05:15 PM   
wodin


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OK cool...will wait for Phantom leader deluxe then.

No hellfires..wow thats odd. It's a shame it didn't come with more terrain tiles aswell..because they seem abit to sand colored for the North Atlantic campaign...I like the fact pilots are no longer attached to planes but are separate entities though.

If you ever get the time I'd love you to do an AAR for TAL, infact one for each would be uber cool indeed.

Thanks mate

< Message edited by wodin -- 11/3/2012 10:07:50 PM >


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RE: COMMAND OPS : LEGENDS OF THE BLITZKRIEG - An Introd... - 11/4/2012 8:36:15 AM   
JudgeDredd


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I lied Wodin - they do carry Hellfires (my bad) - though precious little of them. The game does have AGM-114s - but the Apache only has 8 weight points. I guess it's been done for gameplay.

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RE: COMMAND OPS : LEGENDS OF THE BLITZKRIEG - An Introd... - 11/4/2012 10:37:54 AM   
wodin


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OK cool..still love to see some AAR's hint hint..

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RE: COMMAND OPS : LEGENDS OF THE BLITZKRIEG - An Introd... - 11/4/2012 10:58:14 AM   
JudgeDredd


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Well, I have done some in the past. They're at Wargamer and Grogheads though...I wasn't too happy about the TAL one anyways - so I'll try and get one done for each...get me back to playing them (been concentrating on modelling (no - not me - model aircraft!))...I've been looking for a reaosn to crack the boxes open again.

When I've done, I'll stick them in General Discussion

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RE: COMMAND OPS : LEGENDS OF THE BLITZKRIEG - An Introd... - 11/4/2012 1:04:49 PM   
wodin


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Thanks mate..as your aware both those sites are no go areas for me. So posting them here would be great.

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RE: COMMAND OPS : LEGENDS OF THE BLITZKRIEG - An Introd... - 11/4/2012 1:36:06 PM   
JudgeDredd


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I only mentioned them because I wasn't sure if you were still able to read - just not post. But it's no problem.

I could copy them and paste them here, but I'd kind of like to redo them anyway.

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RE: COMMAND OPS : LEGENDS OF THE BLITZKRIEG - An Introd... - 11/4/2012 3:34:28 PM   
wodin


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OK mate..no I don't go there full stop..rather have nothing todo with them. I've absolutely got zero interest in what many on there have to say (yourself excluded from that by the way). Anyway thats another story and enough has been said on it I think.

Anyway look forward to the new AAR's. Have fun and Happy Hunting.

< Message edited by wodin -- 11/4/2012 3:45:13 PM >


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RE: COMMAND OPS : LEGENDS OF THE BLITZKRIEG - An Introd... - 11/4/2012 8:37:54 PM   
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What's the ETA on LOTB? Can't wait for it, assuming it works. I was playing through a quick battle in CMBFI today and thinking how silly it was. All those units with limited initiative. Don't need the 3d graphics (I've got an imagination), but do need an ability to command realistically, to issue more general orders and have the units interpret them (as happens in CO, and, I hope, as will happen in the tactical iteration) and have some ability to make choices in the interpretation. Of course, if you're abstracted to a little counter graphic then your imagination HAS TO fill in what might have happened in an engagement (wherase, in CMBFI I can SEE the tank just sitting there, doing bugger all instead of driving out and engaging the enemy armour - which it can't do, because its order was to sit there, given in the last orders phase and unalterable until the next), but that just means we should stick to that level of abstraction, if the AI development can't keep pace with the graphics. Anyway. What IS the ETA on this game?

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RE: COMMAND OPS : LEGENDS OF THE BLITZKRIEG - An Introd... - 11/4/2012 10:03:32 PM   
wodin


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Not sure why anyone would play CM QB games..scenarios are where it's at against the AI..it's an amazing game I have to disagree with you.

Anyway your having a laugh I think expecting an ETA..it's using the new east front engine features for starters..so it's a very very long way off. We haven't had the last patch for the old engine yet or the last expansion.

Would be surprised if where not talking at least a year away.

As for a perfect tactical wargame..I have one in my head which is very similar to this but uses instead of counters actual unit footprint which is dynamic..as I mentioned somewhere else. You know all those battle maps we've looked at where someone has drawn on roughly where the formation is? Well imagine that animated as a game..You give an order to the coy formation to send out the recon platoon and click the area ahead you wnat covered..you would see three circles (squads) break off the the oval formation footprint (lets say it looked Oval at the time) and move out ahead the circles may morph into elongated ovals as the squad opens up into line formation to sweep the area then they either wait at the designated area and the main coy moves up and the three squads (ovals) merge back into the footprint. So no longer do you have an abrstact counter with an even more abstract foot print like CO but you actually see the area the unit covers.

< Message edited by wodin -- 11/4/2012 10:12:30 PM >


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RE: COMMAND OPS : LEGENDS OF THE BLITZKRIEG - An Introd... - 11/4/2012 11:03:05 PM   
phoenix

 

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We seem to have the same conversation, in circles....or conversations....

I'm fine with counters, myself.

I'm not talking about the enemy AI in CM (and, again, sadly, I think I've heard us having this conversation before...), but the complete lack of subordinate AI (regardless of whether you're in the scenarios or QBs). You command as the unit commander of each and every unit (by which I mean, each and every unit does next to zip unless you tell it to). Fair enough, I'm happy with that (it's a game, after all, and that's the abstraction...), providing I can get all the info that each and every unit commander would have. But that can't be modelled, of course, because I can't be in 35 to 50 places, say, at the same time. I can play in turn-based mode and run the film endless times to see what happened to each and every unit, after the fact (it's not the same as being there, but it would do), but that means I have to wait a minute before being able to change things for each and every unit (and a minute can be a very long time in combat, the diff between winning or losing, very easily, as, for instance - as happened today - that Tiger rolls up to the building and starts pouring in fire and I have to wait a minute before I can move my stalled bazooka squad into a firing position from behind their wall only fifteen feet away - which they do quite nicely, and quite nicely take out the tank, when I tell them to, a minute later, but by then 18 dead and 15 wounded....etc etc). What is needed is subordinate AI such as CO uses. I've said all this before. Which is why I really look forward to the tactical iteration....

It's a pretty game, CM, I'll give you that.

< Message edited by phoenix -- 11/4/2012 11:04:52 PM >

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RE: COMMAND OPS : LEGENDS OF THE BLITZKRIEG - An Introd... - 11/6/2012 1:35:43 AM   
Rtwfreak

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenix

We seem to have the same conversation, in circles....or conversations....

I'm fine with counters, myself.

I'm not talking about the enemy AI in CM (and, again, sadly, I think I've heard us having this conversation before...), but the complete lack of subordinate AI (regardless of whether you're in the scenarios or QBs). You command as the unit commander of each and every unit (by which I mean, each and every unit does next to zip unless you tell it to). Fair enough, I'm happy with that (it's a game, after all, and that's the abstraction...), providing I can get all the info that each and every unit commander would have. But that can't be modelled, of course, because I can't be in 35 to 50 places, say, at the same time. I can play in turn-based mode and run the film endless times to see what happened to each and every unit, after the fact (it's not the same as being there, but it would do), but that means I have to wait a minute before being able to change things for each and every unit (and a minute can be a very long time in combat, the diff between winning or losing, very easily, as, for instance - as happened today - that Tiger rolls up to the building and starts pouring in fire and I have to wait a minute before I can move my stalled bazooka squad into a firing position from behind their wall only fifteen feet away - which they do quite nicely, and quite nicely take out the tank, when I tell them to, a minute later, but by then 18 dead and 15 wounded....etc etc). What is needed is subordinate AI such as CO uses. I've said all this before. Which is why I really look forward to the tactical iteration....

It's a pretty game, CM, I'll give you that.


But, the sad thing is in its infancy it won't have the 3d graphics of CMxx which is a big draw to that game right now. I do agree with you though having to wait that minute (I always felt there should have been more options like in Panzer Command:Osfront) does make a difference in life and death and winning or losing many times. Of course the TAC ai would respond somewhat when it was damaged and rout or goto ground but never really adjust to the situation like CO does.

This type of game though could become the WW2 model of Norbsofts Gettysburg/Antietam etc. I've always wanted more CO games that went tactical in other eras of wars as I've never been much of a fan of divisional or army level of play. Ever since minature army men in my youth and lots of Avalon Hill Squad Leader games and X-Com I've always enjoyed those types of war depictions. Lots more immersion and fun when you can play an individual soldier or even a squad/platoon of them.

BTW is this a MOD for BFTB or a new game that will be a standalone of its own?

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RE: COMMAND OPS : LEGENDS OF THE BLITZKRIEG - An Introd... - 11/6/2012 2:37:24 AM   
Arjuna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rtwfreak
BTW is this a MOD for BFTB or a new game that will be a standalone of its own?



We haven't made that decision yet but most likely a standalone game in its own right.

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