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Bomber Pilot Training - 5/31/2012 6:25:23 AM   
KPAX


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From: Where the heart is; Home of the Fighting Irish
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Ok, I think I understand the training needed for Fighters; Air (Escort) and Defensive (Swwep). This will work for all fighters regardless of hte plane they fly.

Bombers become much more complex, depending on which bomber they will eventually fly and the best Mission for each type of Bomber.

Here is the list of early bombers. What is the best use for these bombers early in the war so I can set training for them. the MAJOR SKILL is indicated next to the a/c.

Wirraway Land Bombing / Defensive
Hudson I Land Bombing / Defensive
Mitchell None
Bolo Land Bombing / Defensive
B-17 Land Bombing / Defensive

I would think that Ground Attack (Land Bombing) would be great a bit later, but Naval Attack appears very mportant early on for bombers.

Anyone need ASW?

Here is my list of questions

1. To get Land Bombing I would imagine run Ground Attack training missions?

2. Run ASW for ASW

3. Some of the TB say for a major skill --> Naval Bombing and Low Naval Attack. Naval Bombing should be Naval Attack, but what would LNA be?

4. A fighter gains Defensive Skill from running Sweep. A bomber can not. How does a Bomber gain Defensive?

4. I would also really like to know what Mission folks are running for the above a/c.

Thanks!!

_____________________________

"War makes Heros on both sides." Hero (the movie)



Thanks !!

KPAX
Post #: 1
RE: Bomber Pilot Training - 5/31/2012 8:15:23 AM   
pharmy

 

Posts: 265
Joined: 4/3/2010
From: Bangkok/Budapest
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I've never played the allied side, but my SS's have a wonderful time against Allied shipping at first even near the west coast and especially off Australia (the brits have some good DDs, so India is dangerous). I would say ASW is the most important for any units you will use in the Pacific, ground skills in China and Burma. Mitchells and B-17s are good airfield raiders, Hudsons unless plus 70 NavB will never hit a ship, Bolo,Wirraway ASW is my recommendation, as any CAP will slaughter them. Or use the Bolos to train pilots for your later heavy/medium bombers.

And while for the Allied player its a bit more complicated as you have a lot more pools of pilots, I usually train ambidextrous (NavT/ASW for my IJN and Grb/ASW for my IJA bombers) pilots, who will not go to war with the unit they trained with (they go to the reserves and then get assigned)

1. Grd attack/Airfield Attack increase Grb, so does probably port
2. ASW
3. TB skill is acquired by using Training naval attack while having torpedos selected. I think it only works if you have an HQ with torpedoes (torpedoes green, not red). Low skills are acquired at below 5000 altitude training setting- any training mission
4. Japanese bombers gain Def flying Naval Attack and even ASW so I think thats automatic - not that it matters for Japanese bombers, but it does for Allies
5. As an enemy of those aircraft- only the Hudson can be a good Naval attacker (and the later Mitchell I think), the B-17 is rarely allowed to run below 10k in HRs, but with low NavB skills it rarely hits any ships anyway and is wasted in that role. Best Airfield denier though in the early war

(in reply to KPAX)
Post #: 2
RE: Bomber Pilot Training - 5/31/2012 8:43:42 PM   
Halsey


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From: Middle America
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To hedge your Allied bombers.

Pick a couple of fighter groups and train the escort mission into the 50's level, defense will go up too.
Then train them on ground attack at whatever altitude you want to increase.

Disband the pilots into the reserve.

Then draw veterans from these training units into the bomber groups.

_____________________________


(in reply to KPAX)
Post #: 3
RE: Bomber Pilot Training - 5/31/2012 9:09:37 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 3165
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Lima and Toronto
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

To hedge your Allied bombers.

Pick a couple of fighter groups and train the escort mission into the 50's level, defense will go up too.
Then train them on ground attack at whatever altitude you want to increase.

Disband the pilots into the reserve.

Then draw veterans from these training units into the bomber groups.


Do you know how much experience they will lose for switching between bomber and fighter?

(in reply to Halsey)
Post #: 4
RE: Bomber Pilot Training - 5/31/2012 9:16:34 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 12650
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

To hedge your Allied bombers.

Pick a couple of fighter groups and train the escort mission into the 50's level, defense will go up too.
Then train them on ground attack at whatever altitude you want to increase.

Disband the pilots into the reserve.

Then draw veterans from these training units into the bomber groups.



Sounds gamey, maybe. Don't remember hearing of people going from fighters to bombers or vice versa, but I could easily be wrong.

(in reply to Halsey)
Post #: 5
RE: Bomber Pilot Training - 5/31/2012 9:30:10 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5092
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KPAX

Ok, I think I understand the training needed for Fighters; Air (Escort) and Defensive (Swwep). This will work for all fighters regardless of hte plane they fly.

Bombers become much more complex, depending on which bomber they will eventually fly and the best Mission for each type of Bomber.

Here is the list of early bombers. What is the best use for these bombers early in the war so I can set training for them. the MAJOR SKILL is indicated next to the a/c.

Wirraway Land Bombing / Defensive
Hudson I Land Bombing / Defensive
Mitchell None
Bolo Land Bombing / Defensive
B-17 Land Bombing / Defensive

I would think that Ground Attack (Land Bombing) would be great a bit later, but Naval Attack appears very mportant early on for bombers.

Anyone need ASW?

Here is my list of questions

1. To get Land Bombing I would imagine run Ground Attack training missions?

2. Run ASW for ASW

3. Some of the TB say for a major skill --> Naval Bombing and Low Naval Attack. Naval Bombing should be Naval Attack, but what would LNA be?

4. A fighter gains Defensive Skill from running Sweep. A bomber can not. How does a Bomber gain Defensive?

4. I would also really like to know what Mission folks are running for the above a/c.

Thanks!!


Good questions. I thought about them many times

My rule of thumb would be every level bomber should first train land Bombing. They were designed for that. Once they get to almost 60 skill I ask myself: "what do I need in this particular theater?". Maybe some Naval and ASW patrols. Maybe I should need some bombers good at Naval Bombing too!

Then to simulate the skip bombing you will have to develop that skill too.

Think about what you need, train accordingly, would be my advice

_____________________________

Ah nu cheeki breeki iv damke

(in reply to KPAX)
Post #: 6
RE: Bomber Pilot Training - 6/1/2012 7:18:19 AM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1665
Joined: 10/12/2010
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question wrt ASW pilots - do these guys need both ASW & LowN skills to be effective? i don't have a handle on the idea, i assume ASW is for detection, but LowN is needed for getting a hit.

currently, i run my Kingfishers at 50%ASW/50%Train, rng=4 when their ships are at sea, & switch them to 100%Train, rng=0 (at 1k' for LowN) when in port. some few of my CV TB sqns, whose NavT skills are already in the 70s, get the same treatment (of course they switch to NavT mode in a combat area, similarly, Kingfishers will change to NavS, 6k', rng=6).

also, let me put in a plug for training up a Catalina sqn in NavT. recently i chanced to notice that the Cats i'd just xferred to Port Moresby for searching were 70+ in NavT, & that the RAF AirHQ i'd just slipped in w/ a re-supply convoy could buy torps. placed on NavT, 30%Search, 8k' & rng=6, those Cats monstered 2 IJN CAs & some transports inbound to PM. neither the Cat sqn or the AirHQ had a high-value leader, the sqn's morale fell to 70, but its losses were light. i was surprised they were so effective in the NavT role.

not all Cats can carry torps, & of course you need them desperately for L-R NavS & local ASW work, all over the map. but yum, this 1 sqn came up big for me when i needed it badly, in a point-defense role. they're in rest/training mode now, once their morale recovers they'll fly w/ fighter escort.


(in reply to TulliusDetritus)
Post #: 7
RE: Bomber Pilot Training - 6/1/2012 10:29:27 AM   
Gräfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1509
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline
No, they dont need LowNav for ASW duty.

_____________________________



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Post #: 8
RE: Bomber Pilot Training - 6/1/2012 11:22:09 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 5975
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
Status: online
I typically assign ASW missions and training to all Wirraways, Bolos and Kingfishers. Since Hudsons are such worthless bombers no matter the skill level of the pilots I also assign about half of them to ASW and the other half to nav search.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Gräfin Zeppelin)
Post #: 9
RE: Bomber Pilot Training - 6/1/2012 11:50:02 AM   
barkman44

 

Posts: 344
Joined: 1/17/2010
Status: offline
{Sounds gamey, maybe. Don't remember hearing of people going from fighters to bombers or vice versa, but I could easily be wrong.}

Wait don't you remember our two heroes from"Pearl Harbor"-oh oh I mentioned that which should not be mentioned,I'll probably be banned for life

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 10
RE: Bomber Pilot Training - 6/1/2012 2:58:20 PM   
Heeward


Posts: 331
Joined: 1/27/2003
From: Lacey Washington
Status: offline
Many years ago I read a Bantam Paperback - Serenade to the Big Bird by Bert Stiles.
He was a co-pilot of a B-17 in the 91st Bomb Group - completed a tour and then volunteered for a second tour. This was in a fighter group flying P-51s.



_____________________________

The Wake

(in reply to barkman44)
Post #: 11
RE: Bomber Pilot Training - 6/1/2012 3:18:42 PM   
ny59giants_MatrixForum


Posts: 9438
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: online
A bomber pilots Defensive skill will increase significantly when the second skill improves. It doesn't matter what that skill is.

_____________________________


(in reply to Heeward)
Post #: 12
RE: Bomber Pilot Training - 6/1/2012 4:45:07 PM   
pharmy

 

Posts: 265
Joined: 4/3/2010
From: Bangkok/Budapest
Status: offline
Has there ever been a recorded incident of a Japanese bomber downing an allied aircraft? Just a single kill?

I know that last year previous to this update it never happened. Just wondering if it does now?

(in reply to ny59giants_MatrixForum)
Post #: 13
RE: Bomber Pilot Training - 6/2/2012 11:33:06 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 8293
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: icepharmy

Has there ever been a recorded incident of a Japanese bomber downing an allied aircraft? Just a single kill?

I know that last year previous to this update it never happened. Just wondering if it does now?

I have not.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to pharmy)
Post #: 14
RE: Bomber Pilot Training - 6/2/2012 11:42:47 AM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 6269
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
I like to train the IJA on LowN (Low Nav Attack). Betties are reallly preferred of course against Naval targets, but there will come a point where you need the IJA to attack shipping. And the best shot they have is at LowN of hitting something.

I would also train Nav Search for all bombers of any kind, at least to around 50

_____________________________


(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 15
RE: Bomber Pilot Training - 6/2/2012 3:48:36 PM   
FatR

 

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: icepharmy

Has there ever been a recorded incident of a Japanese bomber downing an allied aircraft? Just a single kill?

I know that last year previous to this update it never happened. Just wondering if it does now?

In the game, you mean? By the beginning of 1944 I have the grand total of 3 kills attributed to bombers (2 Ki-49-IIb, 1 P1Y, almost certainly all during night bombing missions).

_____________________________

The Reluctant Admiral mod team.

Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to pharmy)
Post #: 16
RE: Bomber Pilot Training - 6/3/2012 5:48:27 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9500
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: icepharmy

I've never played the allied side, but my SS's have a wonderful time against Allied shipping at first even near the west coast and especially off Australia (the brits have some good DDs, so India is dangerous). I would say ASW is the most important for any units you will use in the Pacific, ground skills in China and Burma. Mitchells and B-17s are good airfield raiders, Hudsons unless plus 70 NavB will never hit a ship, Bolo,Wirraway ASW is my recommendation, as any CAP will slaughter them. Or use the Bolos to train pilots for your later heavy/medium bombers.

And while for the Allied player its a bit more complicated as you have a lot more pools of pilots, I usually train ambidextrous (NavT/ASW for my IJN and Grb/ASW for my IJA bombers) pilots, who will not go to war with the unit they trained with (they go to the reserves and then get assigned)

1. Grd attack/Airfield Attack increase Grb, so does probably port
2. ASW
3. TB skill is acquired by using Training naval attack while having torpedos selected. I think it only works if you have an HQ with torpedoes (torpedoes green, not red). Low skills are acquired at below 5000 altitude training setting- any training mission
4. Japanese bombers gain Def flying Naval Attack and even ASW so I think thats automatic - not that it matters for Japanese bombers, but it does for Allies
5. As an enemy of those aircraft- only the Hudson can be a good Naval attacker (and the later Mitchell I think), the B-17 is rarely allowed to run below 10k in HRs, but with low NavB skills it rarely hits any ships anyway and is wasted in that role. Best Airfield denier though in the early war


You do not need a HQ with torpedoes to train for naval torpedo attack. Otherwise your advice is good.

Here is my thoughts on the use of Allied bombers.

Early 1942: Medium bombers train on low naval. You won't have enough to waste them attacking land units or bases. Save them for when you really need them-anti shipping.
B17s: Once again you can't waste these valuable bombers. They are best used for naval search in early 42 when you are critically short of patrol aircraft. Bolos are training aircraft only. Use them to train all skills. You will need some skills in ASW in 42, as well as search and to train up pilots in bombing skills for when you start to get liberators in some numbers later on. Whirraways, these are training aircraft only and can be used as spot ASW near ports.

Late 42. You will want low naval and high ground bombing for your mediums and ground bombing for your heavies. ASW becomes less important for the Allies as you are getting lots of naval patrol aircraft and by the end of 42 you start to get plenty of sub killing escorts.

43: You still don't get mediums in numbers and I reserve most for naval attack with ground bombing as a back up. The strafers look cool but never use them for low level attacks vs large units or bases. Bomb at 6k and above or you will never have any left. Heavies are pretty much slated for Base and port bombing. The only skill they will need is high alt. GB.

44 and on: Now you get plenty of mediums and can use them for all jobs. Don't waste time honing their skills up too high. A medium pilot with 50 GB and 50 low naval is very deadly and will accumulate more skill and exp in combat. Train up some pilots in strafing to complement the low naval skill. Once again, you need not train up too high. Don't ever worry about getting them high enough to skip bomb. It is not worth the effort. I never train pilots in low ground bombing skills. They are almost as effective at 6000 feet and above and you will lose less to AA this way. Your heavies train in GB only. You should never need them for anything else. (Unless you have no HRs about low level naval attacks).

Remember, you can use catalinas to train naval torpedo pilots and kingfishers set to sweep to train naval fighter pilots. (both are always in short supply in 42)

If you get short of bomber pilots. any fighter squadron can train up in any bombing skill.

Make sure you train up your spare navy and marine fighter pilots to have some low naval bombing skills. Corsairs and hellcats get "two" 1,000 pound bombs by 1944. This is a better load than either the helldiver or avenger.


_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to pharmy)
Post #: 17
RE: Bomber Pilot Training - 6/3/2012 8:25:17 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

A bomber pilots Defensive skill will increase significantly when the second skill improves. It doesn't matter what that skill is.


For this reason I don´t pay any attention to bomber def skill training. I don´t need to because my bomber pilots at least train two skills, in many
cases three, and by then their def is easily high enough to suffice.

_____________________________


(in reply to ny59giants_MatrixForum)
Post #: 18
RE: Bomber Pilot Training - 6/3/2012 9:31:32 AM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1665
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin
No, they dont need LowNav for ASW duty.

thanks, Gräfin. now, i'll want to cross-train my float-plane pilots in something more useful, NavS for CAs and fast BBs, Recon for CLs & slow BBs.

i try to include CLs in an AmphTF, do you think their float-planes would help them suppress CD gun fire, if set to Recon the target hex?

< Message edited by jmalter -- 6/3/2012 9:45:37 AM >

(in reply to Gräfin Zeppelin)
Post #: 19
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