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RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions?

 
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RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 3:36:19 PM   
Kayoz


Posts: 1439
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From: Timbuktu
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WiZz
You are wrong totally. SOTS2 can be launched without running steam.

I didn't say "launch" - I said "installed".

I think I was pretty clear in my use of the term install - see below:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
quote:

ORIGINAL: WiZz
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
I'm not aware of any games from Steam that you can download and install locally - without connection to Steam servers to activate the game. Can you provide an example?


SOTS2, for example.

Wrong.

SOTS2 installation requires that you install Steam and connect to their server.

If Steam goes out of business, you will not be able to install SOTS2 again. If you move to another region and buy a new computer, you will not be able to install.

I can install DW from my optical backups if I move to Brazil, Russia or the moon. I install from my files, enter my key and voila - I'm up and running. Can you say the same for SOTS2?


Please pause to read the above section and identify how many times I used the term, "launch".

_____________________________

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ― Christopher Hitchens

(in reply to WiZz)
Post #: 31
RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 3:43:15 PM   
WiZz

 

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quote:

I can install DW from my optical backups if I move to Brazil, Russia or the moon. I install from my files, enter my key and voila - I'm up and running. Can you say the same for SOTS2?


Yes, I can. Sots2 has no one kind of DRM. It also doesn't need register manipulation in your OS.
And it seems, that you never heard about world-wide steam keys.

< Message edited by WiZz -- 5/31/2012 3:44:50 PM >

(in reply to Kayoz)
Post #: 32
RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 4:05:09 PM   
Kayoz


Posts: 1439
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
Cant you copy your whole steam folder? ... So basically you cannot backup the installer, but you could backup the installed program.

False.

Depends entirely on the game. For example, the installation may store configuration information (eg: location of files, installation of DLC, external required programs which they install during their install) in the registry. Backing up the files - the Steam folder - will not necessarily give you a working game in the event that you copy those files to a new computer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
quote:

You evade legitimate questions, you ignore comments which rip the foundations of your arguments, you apply the most strict interpretation of one word - without bothering to ask for clarification - and when that doesn't work - you try to fabricate comments.

Ditto.

I did not fabricate statements. You do.

I reply to your statements where I agree with them or you have a persuasive argument. You do not.

I respond to your statements accurately - for example "region" v. "country". You do not, but instead attempt to pervert my statements such that they apply favourably to your argument.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
quote:

And ... I'm the one who's nitpicking?

That's why we are nitpicking. And these two lines represent the whole discussion which is therefore - pointless. I won't reply to these parts any further and I hope you do the same.

So we're back to evading legitimate questions. Pukka pie and Ford car example still stands, as well as your lack of response.

< Message edited by Kayoz -- 5/31/2012 4:31:43 PM >


_____________________________

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ― Christopher Hitchens

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Post #: 33
RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 4:23:20 PM   
Kayoz


Posts: 1439
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From: Timbuktu
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WiZz

quote:

I can install DW from my optical backups if I move to Brazil, Russia or the moon. I install from my files, enter my key and voila - I'm up and running. Can you say the same for SOTS2?


Yes, I can. Sots2 has no one kind of DRM. It also doesn't need register manipulation in your OS.


Your statement seems to conflict with statements I've found online -
This site states - "Steam will be required for installation and updates"
This post states - which asserts that Steam installation and validation is a requirement for SOTS2 installation and update. Though not to play the already installed game.

Your experience seems to be contrary to the above examples. It would be interesting to see if you can unplug your computer from the Internet and still install SOTS2.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WiZz
And it seems, that you never heard about world-wide steam keys.

No idea. I try to avoid installing spyware on my PC. I've never hears of world-wide Steam keys. How pervasive they are and whether or not they are available for ALL Steam purchases is an interesting question. Though that's outside the scope of this discussion.

< Message edited by Kayoz -- 5/31/2012 4:27:52 PM >


_____________________________

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ― Christopher Hitchens

(in reply to WiZz)
Post #: 34
RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 5:38:43 PM   
WiZz

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
Your statement seems to conflict with statements I've found online -
This site states - "Steam will be required for installation and updates"
This post states - which asserts that Steam installation and validation is a requirement for SOTS2 installation and update. Though not to play the already installed game.


Ok, imagine some situation. You bought SOTS2. Downloaded it from steam. And from now I may copy game folder into any place, write on disks... In this case, Steam plays role usual fileservice. DW in digital distributes similar, right? That's why, pirates no need to crack SOTS2 every time with new patch.

quote:

No idea. I try to avoid installing spyware on my PC.


This can be easily evaded. Just not to write you real names and not input data from your credit card.

< Message edited by WiZz -- 5/31/2012 5:43:11 PM >

(in reply to Kayoz)
Post #: 35
RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 6:11:36 PM   
mullk

 

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Their are things I like about Steam and have library to show... Steam isn't everyone's cup of tea that's fine as well. As far as DW on Steam, If DW had approached Steam it would have never been published or it would not be DW. Steam caters to a wide verity of gamers but wargaming is dead to all but a very small number of developers and distributors. The only wargame I can think of that Steam has is the Hearts of Iron franchise and I don't necessarily consider HOI a true wargame (more of a expanded risk). Steam is looking for large sales numbers and games found at Matrix and others will never touch the games sold by Steam that cater to the what's in this week crowd. Also the level of support I've seen and experienced at Matrix is otherworldly compared to Steam.

(in reply to WiZz)
Post #: 36
RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 6:26:33 PM   
Kayoz


Posts: 1439
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: WiZz
Ok, imagine some situation. You bought SOTS2. Downloaded it from steam. And from now I may copy game folder into any place, write on disks... In this case, Steam plays role usual fileservice. DW in digital distributes similar, right? That's why, pirates no need to crack SOTS2 every time with new patch.


You're missing the critical difference - that given I back up all installation files that I can -
  • if Steam goes out of business, I cannot install the game
  • if Matrix goes out of business, I can install the game

    The same applies above if I am installing on a computer that I do not/cannot allow access to the Internet.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: WiZz
    This can be easily evaded. Just not to write you real names and not input data from your credit card.

    No. Steam probes your computer. Providing a false name will not protect you from their intrusive information gathering. Providing a false name violates your EULA, as well.

    Though nowhere near as intrusive as Origin, Steam/Valve is far from innocent.

    _____________________________

    “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ― Christopher Hitchens

    (in reply to WiZz)
  • Post #: 37
    RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 6:41:15 PM   
    WiZz

     

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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Kayoz
    You're missing the critical difference - that given I back up all installation files that I can -
  • if Steam goes out of business, I cannot install the game
  • if Matrix goes out of business, I can install the game

    The same applies above if I am installing on a computer that I do not/cannot allow access to the Internet.


  • So? As for me I know many places where I can get necessary data. Copy on the disk or flashdrive and transfer. You forget, that disk may be damaged or lost.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Kayoz
    No. Steam probes your computer. Providing a false name will not protect you from their intrusive information gathering. Providing a false name violates your EULA, as well.

    Though nowhere near as intrusive as Origin, Steam/Valve is far from innocent.


    Yes, it knows my hardware specs and software. So what? My IP-address is dynamic. I don't save private info at HDD like passwords and keys. What else?

    (in reply to Kayoz)
    Post #: 38
    RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 7:08:00 PM   
    Kayoz


    Posts: 1439
    Joined: 12/20/2010
    From: Timbuktu
    Status: online
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: WiZz
    So? As for me I know many places where I can get necessary data. Copy on the disk or flashdrive and transfer. You forget, that disk may be damaged or lost.

    This isn't a concern to you? All the games you bought on Steam are a complete write-off if Steam goes out of business. That is a factor I cannot control. Care of my disks, I can control.

    Would you buy a car - that if the manufacturer goes out of business, and something breaks - you cannot get your car back into working condition - but you require the services of that now defunct company, to fix it? That's the case with Steam. Your computer crashes and Steam is out of business, you're sc*ewed - backups of your Steam folder may help, but there's no guarantee. With Matrix, I'm fine, so long as I've kept my backups.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Kayoz
    Yes, it knows my hardware specs and software. So what? My IP-address is dynamic. I don't save private info at HDD like passwords and keys. What else?

    I guess privacy isn't an issue for you.

    Steam gathers FAR more than just your hardware specs. Referring to the previous article - "to improve Valve's products and online sites, for internal marketing studies, or simply to collect demographic information about Valve's users". You don't get useful marketing data or demographic information from hardware information alone.

    As for your password recording practice - Valve probably doesn't care about that. Your browser history, your email contacts list, your reading preferences - that would be of great interest to their marketing department. Do you keep these off your HDD as well?

    < Message edited by Kayoz -- 5/31/2012 7:11:04 PM >


    _____________________________

    “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ― Christopher Hitchens

    (in reply to WiZz)
    Post #: 39
    RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 9:22:11 PM   
    ASHBERY76


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    Elliot and DistantWorlds will remain small just like all other Matrix devs until they release the game on steam and other online market places.The sad thing is most other Matrix games have small appeal but this game could do well with a bigger playerbase meaning Elliot could hire a full time artist,ect.

    (in reply to Kayoz)
    Post #: 40
    RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 9:47:29 PM   
    Kayoz


    Posts: 1439
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    From: Timbuktu
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

    Elliot and DistantWorlds will remain small just like all other Matrix devs until they release the game on steam and other online market places.The sad thing is most other Matrix games have small appeal but this game could do well with a bigger playerbase meaning Elliot could hire a full time artist,ect.

    Steam isn't the panacea for marketing. Getting your game on Steam won't guarantee sales nor exposure. I haven't seen any numbers on the sales of games from Steam - a few cherry-picked figures are bandied about, but nothing conclusive.

    Going Steam will also restrict what Elliot can and cannot do - as Notch notes in his blog post. A few more sales (which Steam takes an unspecified chunk of), but restrictions on his expansions/creation of DW. Does it add up to a benefit to Elliot? *shrug* Only Elliot can say. But I don't see DW on Steam, so I'll take that as a "no".

    That said, Matrix marketing isn't terribly aggressive. FB has - what - 900 million users? Matrix's FB page has 682 followers. My sister has more friends than that. Matrix FB presence has zero engagement - it's being used like a pamphlet stand at the doctor's office.

    < Message edited by Kayoz -- 5/31/2012 9:49:32 PM >


    _____________________________

    “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ― Christopher Hitchens

    (in reply to ASHBERY76)
    Post #: 41
    RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 10:57:48 PM   
    ceyan

     

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    Edit:
    Whoops, forgot there was a page 2 which had posts to make mine pointless.

    < Message edited by ceyan -- 5/31/2012 10:58:19 PM >

    (in reply to WiZz)
    Post #: 42
    RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 11:21:21 PM   
    Kordanor

     

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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: mullk
    Steam caters to a wide verity of gamers but wargaming is dead to all but a very small number of developers and distributors. The only wargame I can think of that Steam has is the Hearts of Iron franchise and I don't necessarily consider HOI a true wargame (more of a expanded risk). Steam is looking for large sales numbers and games found at Matrix and others will never touch the games sold by Steam that cater to the what's in this week crowd. Also the level of support I've seen and experienced at Matrix is otherworldly compared to Steam.


    Of course it's good for them to be the provider of very popular and widespread games. But I doubt that "reaching a big audience" is a criteria for any single game. I guess it's more like "something for every niche gamer".
    Especially during the last year you see tons of indie games on steam. Even right now, if you check the "new releases" most of the stuff is niche indie games. Frozen Synapse or Geneforge aren't any games appealing to the masses.

    But of course there is some math to be done. It has it's reasons why very special programs are extremely expensive. I mean, if you are a company wanting to buy a program for managing an oil derrick you will need to spend thousands of dollars. And of course the company writing the program will not get any more sales if they sell it cheaper - as you wont reach any additional customers and the oil companies need to buy your specialized software anyways.

    And I guess it's similar with Distant Worlds. I can't imagine, that steam would allow DW to cost more than 60 bucks on steam and even that would be extreme. 40€ for the "compilation" would probably be more realistic as a "steam price" of such a game. For Matrix Games that might mean that they can't offer the game for 80€ on their homepage anymore.

    Lets assume they only get 50% of each sold copy then. That would mean that they need to sell double the copies as before (roughly, not considering steam charges and whatnot but you get what i mean). While that seemed to work for spiderweb (as they would not have continued doing that) that might not be the case for DW. And that is a risk they would need to take of course.

    At that point I want to throw in some snippets from Jeff Vogel (Spiderweb)from http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.fr/2011/08/avadon-is-out-on-steam.html

    quote:

    The Steam Thing does mean that we are embarking on a great experiment, something that we never planning on doing. But, the way the online games market is moving, something that seems like the right choice.

    Avadon: The Black Fortress Is $9.99 On Steam

    I've written a lot about how I think it's important to not price niche games too cheaply, and I stand by that. However, at the same time, Avadon will be only ten bucks on Steam, the cheapest we've ever made our newest game for PC/Mac. Why?

    1. Steam felt it was the best price. I went into this trusting their judgment, because they know a lot more about selling Indie games than I do. When you're an Indie and Steam comes knocking, you don't say no.

    quote:

    So I'm charging $10 on Steam and for the iPad. By the standards of that market, it's a hefty price, enough for me to earn my living. It's cheap enough to work as an impluse buy. It isn't the $1 or $2 price that I'm still sure would put me out of business.

    This means I need to adjust the prices I charge on my own web site. I have changed the price of Avadon to $20, and in the future we will very likely reduce the prices of our earlier games as well. Our next game, Avernum: Escape From the Pit will start out at $20. If this grand experiment works well, we may make future games cheaper still, though I doubt any new game on our own web site will ever go below $15.

    (in reply to mullk)
    Post #: 43
    RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 6/1/2012 4:15:41 PM   
    Velihopea


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    Well, steam has 4 million users online on any given time, so what does it make for total potential buyer base? ten times that? And 1,2 million followers on FB.

    50% sounds a bit much as usual online distrubutors cut is more in line of 20-30 percent (but dont know about steam though)

    (in reply to Kordanor)
    Post #: 44
    RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 6/1/2012 4:34:35 PM   
    Kordanor

     

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    Yep, personally I guess it's a good choice to add it on steam due to the large audience.
    What I meant with 50% is that they would need to sell it for 40€ instead of 80€.

    (in reply to Velihopea)
    Post #: 45
    RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 6/2/2012 5:30:27 AM   
    Kayoz


    Posts: 1439
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Velihopea
    50% sounds a bit much as usual online distrubutors cut is more in line of 20-30 percent (but dont know about steam though)

    Check around on the Internet. See if you can find a current or former patron of Steam's services that tells what size of a cut Steam takes.

    Steam is mum on the whole issue of revenue split. You won't find any verifiable figures. It might be 30%, it might be 90%. We don't know. We can't know - well, not unless someone breaks their NDA with Steam.

    And you're focusing entirely on the money issue. Steam controls how you can interact with your customer and what creative paths you can go down - as indicated by Minecraft creator's post above. You give up a lot of control by going with Steam. Whether or not this is something you want to do as a developer is something Elliot has to weigh. And as well, he already has a contract with Matrix which adds another dimension to consider. Can Elliot, Matrix and Steam come to an agreement that's beneficial to all three? Judging from Erik's previous statements that they've already considered Steam distribution and rejected it - I think the answer is pretty clear.


    _____________________________

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    Post #: 46
    RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 6/2/2012 4:10:17 PM   
    Kordanor

     

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    True. However I don't think that DW has any exclusive content which would be excluded from steam and only available on other sources. And that was pretty much Notches point. This can also be found here:
    http://www.golem.de/1106/84199.html
    Well, it's german, but it's saying that Electronic Arts stated that Crysis 2 was kicked out of steam as they offered additional content on "another smaller distribution platform" which was not available through steam.
    You can probably find better sources in english for that news.
    That was 2 months before Notches comment - and checking steam now you can buy Crysis 2 again (including the DLC which was previously not available for steam users I guess).

    So while you are right, I don't see the limitation for DW here. Maybe the open Beta for the patch is an issue. No idea.

    Besides of that Steam also seems to have change it's attitude a bit. As far as I remember a year ago there were no alpha products and similar on steam.
    Right now you can buy Endless Space on steam and you get immediate excess to the alpha (also via steam).

    (in reply to Kayoz)
    Post #: 47
    RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 6/2/2012 8:28:20 PM   
    Kayoz


    Posts: 1439
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    How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

    Discussing the merits of Steam distribution for DW is the same sort of question. Steam doesn't disclose it's business relationship - which is entirely understandable. Erik won't talk about his discussions with Steam, aside from confirming that he had been in contact with them. Professional business behaviour that's hard to question.

    Why continue to beat the Steam drum? Erik had all the information in front of him and decided it's not something he wanted to do. Wouldn't it be fair to respect his decision and leave it at that?

    Or am I missing something here, and any further discussions on the merits of Steam are something other than discussions on pins and angels?

    _____________________________

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    Post #: 48
    RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 6/2/2012 9:32:36 PM   
    rosseau

     

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    I have about 160 games on Steam and had one problem in all these years (with World in Conflict). Big deal, as it cost me $5. I'm a GamersGate customer, too. So, does any sane person want 200 CDs lying around the house and have to manually update every time there's a patch on one of them?

    If you are a real hardcore (meaning that you buy very few games and think Shogun 2 is for kiddies), then Matrix is perfect for you. I love Matrix, too. #1 in customer service, forums, etc. I like BF games too, but no matter what they say, if my hard drive goes, I am screwed with all the "re-licensing" hassles.

    Just saying, "I hate Steam" makes no sense to me. But more and more I worry. It's a calculated risk that one day some evil mother will hack in there and goodbye maybe to our games. But then I worry about an EMP attack, too!

    Sorry to go off topic, Kayoz. Yeah, leave DW off Steam. It might not sell with the FPS crowd until they cut the price to next to nothing.

    < Message edited by rosseau -- 6/2/2012 9:34:45 PM >

    (in reply to WiZz)
    Post #: 49
    RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 6/3/2012 11:08:46 AM   
    MartialDoctor


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    I haven't read any of the comments and won't get into any arguments here. But most people, including myself, like Steam. It's the way that most games are sold these days (all of my gamer friends use it) and the market is moving in this sort of direction. It's convenient and many people use it.

    (in reply to rosseau)
    Post #: 50
    RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 6/4/2012 12:43:05 AM   
    the1sean


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

    Elliot and DistantWorlds will remain small just like all other Matrix devs until they release the game on steam and other online market places.The sad thing is most other Matrix games have small appeal but this game could do well with a bigger playerbase meaning Elliot could hire a full time artist,ect.


    I totally agree man. I think Steam and Impulse have done great things for the indy developers out there. Also, Armada 2526 is a perfect example of a game that Matrix released that also got digitally distributed on Impulse and did exceedingly well in sales. I hope that maybe with DW2 Elliot can make that leap to the wider indy game market on platforms like Steam and Impulse; this game is awesome and just needs some more publicity and face time with the kind of PC gamers that frequent those larger digital distribution platforms.

    _____________________________

    Check out my GAMEPLAY REDUX MOD (ROTS)

    (in reply to ASHBERY76)
    Post #: 51
    RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 6/4/2012 4:24:25 PM   
    Shark7


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: the1sean


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

    Elliot and DistantWorlds will remain small just like all other Matrix devs until they release the game on steam and other online market places.The sad thing is most other Matrix games have small appeal but this game could do well with a bigger playerbase meaning Elliot could hire a full time artist,ect.


    I totally agree man. I think Steam and Impulse have done great things for the indy developers out there. Also, Armada 2526 is a perfect example of a game that Matrix released that also got digitally distributed on Impulse and did exceedingly well in sales. I hope that maybe with DW2 Elliot can make that leap to the wider indy game market on platforms like Steam and Impulse; this game is awesome and just needs some more publicity and face time with the kind of PC gamers that frequent those larger digital distribution platforms.


    The question is: Can the developer demand that their product not be required to have the always on stuff that Steam and their ilk currently do? I don't even mind having to be online to activate, as long as it is a one time thing. Any game that requires me to be online also locks me out from playing if something goes wrong with the internet or servers....and that is my major gripe about it.

    _____________________________

    Distant Worlds Fan

    'When in doubt...attack!'

    (in reply to the1sean)
    Post #: 52
    RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 6/4/2012 10:15:06 PM   
    Kordanor

     

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    quote:

    The question is: Can the developer demand that their product not be required to have the always on stuff that Steam and their ilk currently do? I don't even mind having to be online to activate, as long as it is a one time thing. Any game that requires me to be online also locks me out from playing if something goes wrong with the internet or servers....and that is my major gripe about it.


    Hmm...what exactly do you mean with "always on"? That you need to be online in order to play the game? I can't think of any game on steam which actually needs that. Besides of pure multiplayer titles of course.
    I also heard that this was the case for Assasins Creed XYZ, but this wasn't steam but the UBI-Soft "net".
    And it's also the case with Diablo 3, which is also not on steam but in battle.net, and as a big part of Diablo 3 is the online experience now, that can't be really compared.

    (in reply to Shark7)
    Post #: 53
    RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 6/5/2012 12:17:41 AM   
    Shark7


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Kordanor

    quote:

    The question is: Can the developer demand that their product not be required to have the always on stuff that Steam and their ilk currently do? I don't even mind having to be online to activate, as long as it is a one time thing. Any game that requires me to be online also locks me out from playing if something goes wrong with the internet or servers....and that is my major gripe about it.


    Hmm...what exactly do you mean with "always on"? That you need to be online in order to play the game? I can't think of any game on steam which actually needs that. Besides of pure multiplayer titles of course.
    I also heard that this was the case for Assasins Creed XYZ, but this wasn't steam but the UBI-Soft "net".
    And it's also the case with Diablo 3, which is also not on steam but in battle.net, and as a big part of Diablo 3 is the online experience now, that can't be really compared.


    Yes, a game that requires an internet connection just to play it. There is a new simcity game coming out soon, and it requires an always on connection to Origin...I will not be buying.

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    Post #: 54
    RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 6/5/2012 1:41:35 AM   
    Kayoz


    Posts: 1439
    Joined: 12/20/2010
    From: Timbuktu
    Status: online
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Kordanor
    And it's also the case with Diablo 3, which is also not on steam but in battle.net, and as a big part of Diablo 3 is the online experience now, that can't be really compared.


    You're ignoring the fact that Diablo 3 single player mode - that is, just you and the computer - requires a constant connection. And yes, you get to experience the joys of lag and crashed games due to disconnects (after it fails to reconnect in 20 seconds or so).

    Another brilliant example of DRM gone mad. Oh, hold on - it's not DRM in your eyes, is it?

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    Post #: 55
    RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 6/5/2012 1:50:35 AM   
    Kordanor

     

    Posts: 22
    Joined: 5/28/2012
    Status: offline
    Lets say that I fully understand why it was done and approve that they did it.
    But I also understand why you and lots of other people don't like it.
    And yes it sucks that the servers were offline so often. No, I would never have started a character which I could never use in multiplayer.
    However I will not take part in the discussions about it which must have been done a million times on the internet during the last few weeks.

    I guess it served well as an example of an "always online game", which is why I mentioned it.

    (in reply to Kayoz)
    Post #: 56
    RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 6/5/2012 2:14:42 AM   
    Kayoz


    Posts: 1439
    Joined: 12/20/2010
    From: Timbuktu
    Status: online
    Joys of Diablo 3's "always on DRM" in single player:

    Zero Punctuation Review

    He covers the joys of Diablo 3's DRM at about 4min into the clip. Can't put it better than him.

    _____________________________

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    Post #: 57
    RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 6/5/2012 7:10:43 AM   
    Shark7


    Posts: 7187
    Joined: 7/24/2007
    From: The Big Nowhere
    Status: offline

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Kordanor

    Lets say that I fully understand why it was done and approve that they did it.
    But I also understand why you and lots of other people don't like it.
    And yes it sucks that the servers were offline so often. No, I would never have started a character which I could never use in multiplayer.
    However I will not take part in the discussions about it which must have been done a million times on the internet during the last few weeks.

    I guess it served well as an example of an "always online game", which is why I mentioned it.



    Of course if they went back to selling the game on a disk with a box and manual the draconian DRM stuff wouldn't be so necessary. And unfortunately with these new DRM measures, you are completely at the mercy of the publisher...if they decide they don't want to support the game anymore, your copy just stops working. My games from Matrix where I only need the serial code and can actually get a physical copy...they will always work even if the Internet goes away tomorrow.

    It's no different...in both cases I have a licensed copy. The difference is that with Matrix, that is a lifetime license, where with Origin and their ilk, its a license until they decide they don't want to support it anymore. Which sounds like the more valuable product to you?

    And yes, I still play games from decades ago...I keep an old computer working just for that reason.

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    Post #: 58
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