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RE: "Aye,aye,sir.

 
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RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/25/2012 6:59:17 PM   
Nikademus


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My only real culture shock to date was being a passenger on a Lithuanian highway. (they beat even Texas for road rage and need for speed)


Well that and nearly causing a pile up while negotiating an English round-a-bout......in a rental car.....with a stick shift.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 31
RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/25/2012 7:20:05 PM   
Disco Duck

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justus2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

Hmmm that whole body expresson thing must be very difficult in communicating with air traffic control ..

Just to add some parlance to this thread in communicating with an air traffic controller ..

Besides the simple repeating of the command which says "I will comply " For example "N12345 turn right hdg 135 maintain 5000" "135 - 5000 N12345"

Roger "I hear and understand your instruction/information"

Wilco "Will comply"

"Did you know that airport XYZ is shut down" "Roger, requesting a practice ILS for XYZ .."

"N12345, report to the tower after securing the aircraft .." "wilco, N12345"

so the whole Roger Wilco thing is just for the movies .


This reminds me of a section in a book (I think it was Outliers, by Malcom Gladwell), where he pointed out that asian airlines had some of the highest accident/incident/near miss rates of major carriers, I think Korean Air was one of the highest. His analysis pointed to thet amount of deference shown by copilots to the pilot, and even in interactions with air traffic control, because it would be considered disrespectful to correct the Pilot, so small errors or oversights, that would usually be caught or corrected by the navigator or co-pilot, were frequently not addressed. It's been a while since I read it, but IIRC they actually did some comparisons with survey data to identify the most 'deferential' cultures, and how those results correlated with who was actually on the crew in certain incidents.

Yes, that was in Outliers. Very Interesting.

(in reply to Justus2)
Post #: 32
RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/25/2012 9:21:30 PM   
CaptDave

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justus2
This reminds me of a section in a book (I think it was Outliers, by Malcom Gladwell), where he pointed out that asian airlines had some of the highest accident/incident/near miss rates of major carriers, I think Korean Air was one of the highest. His analysis pointed to thet amount of deference shown by copilots to the pilot, and even in interactions with air traffic control, because it would be considered disrespectful to correct the Pilot, so small errors or oversights, that would usually be caught or corrected by the navigator or co-pilot, were frequently not addressed. It's been a while since I read it, but IIRC they actually did some comparisons with survey data to identify the most 'deferential' cultures, and how those results correlated with who was actually on the crew in certain incidents.


This was one of the primary causes for "Shiga" -- a JAL DC-8 -- landing in San Francisco Bay in 1968. I studied this one as part of my Aircraft Accident Investigation class, and what made it worse was that one of the crewmembers was actually an American (IIRC, it was the flight engineer). Besides landing short of the runway, they had some navigational issues, such as flying past the approach path, due to a fatigued captain and a crew that was unwilling to correct him.

It is true that KAL used to have one of the worst safety records in Asia and, indeed, in the world among major airlines. They have improved greatly over the past decade or so. The same, unfortunately, cannot be said for Russian airlines, or those based in Africa or the Middle East (which is part of Asia, thus the continent's poor rating). They've improved, but not enough that I'm willing to fly on some of them (the largest Middle East airlines are okay -- Qatar Airways, Emirates Air -- but most of the others are suspect).

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Post #: 33
RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/25/2012 9:23:29 PM   
CaptDave

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

It is my understanding that in the airtraffic control world, the international language of flight is English, so the body language thing doesn't come into often (unless the pilot is doing a flyby and using a finger to give a salute)....


There is the rather famious story in aviation of an air traffic controller stating; "Maintain 6 thousand follow the JAP 123 at your 12 o'clock" .. The JAP was a JAL 707 .. out of the blue on the airwaves comes a "Banzai!!" ...

[I am having a hard time finding the source for this .I remember intially reading this in Readers Digest but that source referenced something back in the late '60's .. if somebody who is an ol' aviator can help me ..]


This very well could have come from one of Robert Serling's books. I remember reading one when I was in high school, mid-70s, but can't find its name anymore. Anyway, the whole book was full of stories like this. Some might even be true!

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Post #: 34
RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/26/2012 12:57:41 AM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

I never heard anyone say "aye, aye sir" in the RN. Not once, not never.

Mostly:

Are you sure sir? Okaaaay

Really sir? If you say so.


I thought the Weapons officer and 1st Officer on a "boomer" concurr ... "I concurr sir, begin weapons targeting and launch sequences" "At least that is what American movies do ..

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Post #: 35
RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/26/2012 12:58:50 AM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Interesting stuff. Unfortunately this puts a hole in the Rosetta Stone press about how easy it is to learn a language. So much more than just speaking the words. lol. Alot of fun is made of Indian accents in the West speaking English.......wonder how we sound speaking Hindi in India?


Many stories about blown deals in Japan when the US team flipped their business cards across the conference table instead of presenting them properly by facing the recipient, standing, feet together, bowing at the waist, and holding the card by the edges with both hands.



And for heavens sake don't slip their business card into your back pocket and sit on it!

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Post #: 36
RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/26/2012 2:50:30 AM   
Chickenboy


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As a native Californian, I think all of this misunderstanding would vanish if male-to-male communication was expressed in one word. "Dude". That's all you need-all meanings, all nuances there.

Of course, reliable and meaningful male-to-female communication is patently impossible, so that won't help there.

Dude.

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RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/26/2012 6:39:15 AM   
rockmedic109

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

As a native Californian, I think all of this misunderstanding would vanish if male-to-male communication was expressed in one word. "Dude". That's all you need-all meanings, all nuances there.

Of course, reliable and meaningful male-to-female communication is patently impossible, so that won't help there.

Dude.

That is because females speak a language that to date no male has ever succeeded in deciphering. The NSA has had a network of computers trying since the cold war to no avail. The CIA tried by sending an agent to get a sex change and even that did not succeed.

And for heaven's sake, DON"T EVER get directions from one.

Not to be confused with TAKING directions from one. This has to be done for domestic tranquility and has been known to even save lives.

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RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/26/2012 2:34:41 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

As a native Californian, I think all of this misunderstanding would vanish if male-to-male communication was expressed in one word. "Dude". That's all you need-all meanings, all nuances there.

Of course, reliable and meaningful male-to-female communication is patently impossible, so that won't help there.

Dude.

That is because females speak a language that to date no male has ever succeeded in deciphering. The NSA has had a network of computers trying since the cold war to no avail. The CIA tried by sending an agent to get a sex change and even that did not succeed.

And for heaven's sake, DON"T EVER get directions from one.

Not to be confused with TAKING directions from one. This has to be done for domestic tranquility and has been known to even save lives.

Dude!

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Post #: 39
RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/26/2012 6:39:00 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

I never heard anyone say "aye, aye sir" in the RN. Not once, not never.

Mostly:

Are you sure sir? Okaaaay

Really sir? If you say so.


I thought the Weapons officer and 1st Officer on a "boomer" concurr ... "I concurr sir, begin weapons targeting and launch sequences" "At least that is what American movies do ..


And they get it wrong.


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RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/26/2012 6:42:35 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Of course, reliable and meaningful male-to-female communication is patently impossible, so that won't help there.



Poppycock!! All you amateurs in here. (Shakes head.)

Today is my first anniverdary with my bride, Girl of the Prairie. I got her flowers, which is what she said she wanted, and she got me a new toilet seat, which is what I wanted. Told her so, weeks ago. She listened, she bought one of Wisconsin's finest, and she will even install it for me.

Communication is easy. Just say what you think.

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Post #: 41
RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/26/2012 7:10:14 PM   
Apollo11


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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

The United States had the same problem. A lot of reosurces are spent on "Cockpit Resource Management" We have two very famious accidents. One is the flight engineer and co-pilot let the Captain drive a L1011 into the swamps .. the other is even more interesting .. a "junior" ex F15 pilot with 10,000 hours is sitting in the right seat and a "senior" newbie from the Commuters is sitting in the left seat ..

Florida flight 90 .. "Larry Larry we're stalling" "I know! I know!"


I remember reading the official NTSB reports for those two... ahhh...

BTW, how much do you guys believe in reconstructions of those (and other accidents) depicted in "Mayday" (also known as "Air Crash Investigation") TV shows?


Leo "Apollo11"

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(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 42
RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/26/2012 8:30:36 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


Communication is easy. Just say what you think.


Alright, Mr. expert communicator: I'm thinking the following thought, "Why did Bullwinkle not have a toilet seat until his wife bought him one as an anniversary present?" I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that your wife didn't purchase a used toilet seat for you.

Dude.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 5/26/2012 8:32:28 PM >


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Post #: 43
RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/26/2012 8:58:17 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

The United States had the same problem. A lot of reosurces are spent on "Cockpit Resource Management" We have two very famious accidents. One is the flight engineer and co-pilot let the Captain drive a L1011 into the swamps .. the other is even more interesting .. a "junior" ex F15 pilot with 10,000 hours is sitting in the right seat and a "senior" newbie from the Commuters is sitting in the left seat ..

Florida flight 90 .. "Larry Larry we're stalling" "I know! I know!"


I remember reading the official NTSB reports for those two... ahhh...

BTW, how much do you guys believe in reconstructions of those (and other accidents) depicted in "Mayday" (also known as "Air Crash Investigation") TV shows?


Leo "Apollo11"


Sometimes those shows go into melodrama rather than facts. But NoVA, and the Book Blind Trust by John Nance I would endorse. The book I think is an excellent read for non-avaiation types as well as those in the know of how imporant cockpit crew resource management relates to catestrophic incidents.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 44
RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/26/2012 9:52:15 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Communication is easy. Just say what you think.


Alright, Mr. expert communicator: I'm thinking the following thought, "Why did Bullwinkle not have a toilet seat until his wife bought him one as an anniversary present?" I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that your wife didn't purchase a used toilet seat for you.

Dude.

Dude! You're a veterinarian, OK, you specialize in chickens but have you ever even heard of a moose using a toilet? She was probably thrilled that he wanted to start. Bathing comes next, I suppose.

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RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/27/2012 1:00:47 AM   
CapnGreasy

 

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I remember the ship I was currently on, either Belleau Wood or Tarawa, staying at Yokuska while training up on Camp Fuji (Yum Fuji burgers!) The Midway was still in service and home ported there. 1980's and this was the Midway from WWII. Sure its hull looked like a beat up used car, with a good coat of paint, but all the sailors talked how the Japanese had kept it running all those years.

The point I wanted to state was that right after morning colors the ship would become very noisy from all the work being performed. At a certain time each day the noise would cease just like throwing a switch, it was lunchtime. About an hour later all the noise starts right back up like someone hit the switch again.

And if anyone was able to make a large purchase at the PX and needed help carrying stereo equipment up onto the ship (exchange rate was really good prior to their recession) some guys that don't even speak English would jump in and help carry it.

I never heard work stop and start so precisely anywhere before or since, unless my wife really needed something!!!

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RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/27/2012 2:15:26 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


Communication is easy. Just say what you think.


Alright, Mr. expert communicator: I'm thinking the following thought, "Why did Bullwinkle not have a toilet seat until his wife bought him one as an anniversary present?" I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that your wife didn't purchase a used toilet seat for you.

Dude.


The old one looked like it had been worked over by a Wisconsin . . .wolverine. New one, nice.

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RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/27/2012 7:39:56 PM   
AW1Steve


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She bought you a TOLIET SEAT for your anniversary? Is that her way of saying that your relationship is in "the crapper"? Or that you are Full of it (and needing a seat?). ? Nice to see that romance is not dead!

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RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/27/2012 7:41:14 PM   
AW1Steve


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And of course every good old time American sailor knows that after he says "aye,aye sir" , he under his breath mutters, "three bags full sir".

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"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

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RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/28/2012 2:17:33 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

She bought you a TOLIET SEAT for your anniversary? Is that her way of saying that your relationship is in "the crapper"? Or that you are Full of it (and needing a seat?). ? Nice to see that romance is not dead!


She bought me a toilet seat. It was not only an anniversary, it was our first anniversary. She bought it because I asked her to. It's what I wanted. I assure you the romance is not dead, although in the romance department the seat is not a participant. (That would just be wrong.)

I just laugh at all the posters on this here forum who seem to have no luck talking to women, or are scared of their wives, or who wish they weren't married, etc. I've never had trouble communicating with women, back to 16-YO. Women are easy. They'll actually talk to you instead of grunt and scratch. The problem isn't in them not talking, it's in men not listening. The content is there. If you don't get it, keep digging until you do. I've found they'll usually help.

We give each other presents all the time, but in our entire relationship I've given her jewelry twice, and once was a wedding ring. She'd rather have tools.

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RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/28/2012 2:18:28 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

And of course every good old time American sailor knows that after he says "aye,aye sir" , he under his breath mutters, "three bags full sir".


Well, the "aye, aye" does not preclude a white mutiny, although the rocks and shoals of sea lawyering must be kept in mind.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 5/28/2012 2:19:43 AM >


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RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/28/2012 2:30:21 AM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
I just laugh at all the posters on this here forum who seem to have no luck talking to women, or are scared of their wives, or who wish they weren't married, etc. I've never had trouble communicating with women, back to 16-YO. Women are easy. They'll actually talk to you instead of grunt and scratch. The problem isn't in them not talking, it's in men not listening. The content is there. If you don't get it, keep digging until you do. I've found they'll usually help.


Bull,

I would venture that the vast majority of those that post that they are 'scared' of their wives do so in jest. Most of us are very happily married (I'm going on 16 years this year) , love the pleasure of their spouse's company, but like to kid about the idiosyncratic communication between long-term married couples. Just a bit of funnin'.

My experience is that people that communicate well in general can do so with both sexes with some time and effort.

But still-congrats on the toilet seat. Use it well.

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RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/28/2012 3:49:42 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

But still-congrats on the toilet seat. Use it well.


It's a beaut.

Long time since I was in the toilet seat segment of the economy. Apparently they've gone to slow-close pneumatic pistons or something. You can't slam it anymore. It just receeds sloooowly into the south as it were, landing in silence after you're already back upstairs raiding the icebox.


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RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/28/2012 4:08:01 PM   
Chickenboy


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The Public Health side of me hopes that there's a hand-washing step in there somewhere between the lid recession and the icebox raiding.

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RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/28/2012 4:11:12 PM   
LoBaron


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A very interesting path to offtopicness I have to say. From the Japanese version of "Aye, aye, sir" to a toilet seat present and women?

Wouldn´t it be "yes ma´am" in this case? Or the version thereof Lord sprior suggests, in case anybody is crazy enough to risk it?

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RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/28/2012 7:54:51 PM   
khyberbill


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quote:

And of course every good old time American sailor knows that after he says "aye,aye sir" , he under his breath mutters, "three bags full sir".

In six years in the Navy I never once heard "aye aye sir" between an enlisted man and an officer. I doubt if I heard it between officers, because if I had, I would have laughed so hard that I would have been brought up on charges.

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RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/28/2012 8:28:09 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

The Public Health side of me hopes that there's a hand-washing step in there somewhere between the lid recession and the icebox raiding.


Fighting germs makes you stronger. Soap is for wimps.

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RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/28/2012 8:31:37 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

A very interesting path to offtopicness I have to say. From the Japanese version of "Aye, aye, sir" to a toilet seat present and women?

Wouldn´t it be "yes ma´am" in this case? Or the version thereof Lord sprior suggests, in case anybody is crazy enough to risk it?


I've heard fourth-hand that there is a cultural segue underway in the US military which may already be included in regs. That is on the subject of addressing femal eofficers. In my day it was correct to use "Ma'am", but I've been told that we've adopted th eBattlestar Galictica convention of everybody getting a "Sir" regardless of gender. Any active duty folks can confirm?

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RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/28/2012 8:33:48 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

quote:

And of course every good old time American sailor knows that after he says "aye,aye sir" , he under his breath mutters, "three bags full sir".

In six years in the Navy I never once heard "aye aye sir" between an enlisted man and an officer. I doubt if I heard it between officers, because if I had, I would have laughed so hard that I would have been brought up on charges.


I guess we were in differnt naves. I heard it a couple of hundred times a week standing watch in the control room. If a helmsman had responded to a rudder order with "Yes, sir" he would have been relieved on the spot. "Aye, sir" has the same legal import as "aye aye, sir" and is also just as different as "Yes, sir."


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RE: "Aye,aye,sir. - 5/28/2012 8:46:55 PM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

A very interesting path to offtopicness I have to say. From the Japanese version of "Aye, aye, sir" to a toilet seat present and women?

Wouldn´t it be "yes ma´am" in this case? Or the version thereof Lord sprior suggests, in case anybody is crazy enough to risk it?


I've heard fourth-hand that there is a cultural segue underway in the US military which may already be included in regs. That is on the subject of addressing femal eofficers. In my day it was correct to use "Ma'am", but I've been told that we've adopted th eBattlestar Galictica convention of everybody getting a "Sir" regardless of gender. Any active duty folks can confirm?


I'm no longer active , but my JAG spouse still is. Sir to a woman will get you a raised eyebrow, but no reprimand. Ma'am is still accepted. The exception would be in "formal" usage. Such as "I relieve you sir"", regardless of sex.

And as an Airdale, we didn't use "aye, aye sir" in dailey usage, but would definately use it in formal usage. Like at a Captain's mast. Or a change of command. Or even in a change of duty such as SDO or ASDO. (I once condensed "I stand relived sir" into a split second. As I was turning over the duty, the red "crash phone" rang. The look of panic in the eyes of the oncoming watch was wonderful!).

< Message edited by AW1Steve -- 5/28/2012 8:48:07 PM >


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