Matrix Games Forums

Join the Matrix Team at Historicon!Recruiting Privates for Germany at War: Barbarossa 1941!Ageod takes you back to the Civil War Battle Academy iPad and PC 50 per cent off!Close Combat Last Stand Arnhem v5.60.53 update Allied Corps Walkthrough playlist and AARConflict of Heroes: Ghost Divisions Released!Pandora Beta Playthrough VideosGermany at War: Barbarossa 1941 Announced!Great Battles Medieval coming to your tablet with a 50 per cent off launch sale!		 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Is WITP Artillery the God of War?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Is WITP Artillery the God of War? Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/23/2012 6:07:35 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 5293
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		I've been away for a year, and wondering where Artillery sits in WITP-AE right now. Specifically, how effective is it really?

In the early AE days, it was very effective, and changes were made once players were obliterating Chinese units with massed IJA Artillery. Some were thinking the pendulum swung too far, as it's difficult to see direct results. Certainly, bombardment attacks alone kill almost nobody, and probably serve to train your enemy's inexperienced troops more than anything else. In the old WITP days, it was standard practice to never bombard Chinese troops for this reason: it just trained them.

Anyway, as Japan I still dutifully bring Artillery units to the party. But am I wasting my time?

Thoughts?
Post #: 1
RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/23/2012 6:40:12 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 1922
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		My limited experience says yes you are. From what I've seen on clear ground I haven't seen much effectiveness against starting Chinese units... There's no doubt that the early artillery was warped but I do believe the pendulum has swung a little too far. I'm a believer that the only thing artillery is really useful for at this point is wasting the enemy's supply in counterbattery fire.

I'm thinking at this point arty is only good for use against cut off troops. I'm interested to see the general consensus here from folks that play the Japanese side.

Good thread.

< Message edited by SuluSea -- 5/23/2012 6:42:58 PM >

_____________________________



(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 2
RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/23/2012 6:42:26 PM   
witpqs

 

Posts: 12442
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Fixed. Artillery is pretty good now. It helps attacks, burns supplies (for the shooter too!), but is NOT nuclear.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 3
RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/23/2012 6:57:30 PM   
Hermit

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 12/22/2011
Status: offline 		I thought it also reduces the morale of enemy troops, which affects their combat effectiveness. So even with no direct damage it would help the eventual ground attack.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 4
RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/23/2012 7:16:48 PM   
witpqs

 

Posts: 12442
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermit

I thought it also reduces the morale of enemy troops, which affects their combat effectiveness. So even with no direct damage it would help the eventual ground attack.

Probably does, I was not trying to be all-inclusive. I think that when Q-Ball took a break from AE that arty was doing nuclear strike damage, so I was really answering that.

(in reply to Hermit)
Post #: 5
RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/23/2012 7:29:05 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 15255
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I've been away for a year, and wondering where Artillery sits in WITP-AE right now. Specifically, how effective is it really?

In the early AE days, it was very effective, and changes were made once players were obliterating Chinese units with massed IJA Artillery. Some were thinking the pendulum swung too far, as it's difficult to see direct results. Certainly, bombardment attacks alone kill almost nobody, and probably serve to train your enemy's inexperienced troops more than anything else. In the old WITP days, it was standard practice to never bombard Chinese troops for this reason: it just trained them.

Anyway, as Japan I still dutifully bring Artillery units to the party. But am I wasting my time?

Thoughts?


It's been significantly scaled back. It's of questionable value to bring to a hex with a dug in opponent in rough terrain, but can (like airborne attacks) cause worthwhile damage against an opponent in the open. My opinion is that the damage has been *too* nerfed compared to where it once was. You know how the WiTP programming pendulum goes though-squeakiest wheel gets the oil and all that...

_____________________________


(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 6
RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/23/2012 7:29:45 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25219
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		Arty was toned back in terms of "casualties" and more recently so was Air Ground attack. More importantly than morale effects, bombardment causes disruption which is a major factor in modified combat odds. Thats the underlying factor when a unit fails an attack (espeically a shock attack) and is then itself counter-attacked. Because the disruption is high (along with fatigue if in combat long enough) it makes even an LCU with a low disabled device count far less effective.


(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 7
RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/23/2012 8:25:12 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 2381
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		In my experience, the Chinese are foolish to attack without considerable artillery support unless they outnumber the Japanese by 3 or 4 to one.  It also seems to buck them up on the defense.  I never bombard anyone on purpose.  British and Australian brigades and US regiments seem to be self supporting enough not to need them so much.

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 8
RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/23/2012 10:36:27 PM   
FatR

 

Posts: 2489
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline 		I find that artillery nowadays is an important force enhancer in normal attacks, but bombardment attacks generally aren't worth it, save for the most extreme cases, like 20 arty units pounding on the remnants of most of the Chinese army in Chungking. Counterbattery fire is considerably more effective that bombardment fire, so, unless the enemy has far weaker firepower, you will just impale yourself. And in rough terrain bombardments do no damage, unless it is battle between huge stacks.

_____________________________

The Reluctant Admiral mod team.

Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 9
RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/23/2012 10:54:22 PM   
Icedawg


Posts: 1352
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline 		Also, I believe enemy troops gain experience from being on the receiving end of artillery bombardments. So, long, drawn out bombardments may, at least in this regard, actually help beef up the enemy defense.

(in reply to FatR)
Post #: 10
RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/24/2012 12:34:37 AM   
Hanzberger


Posts: 739
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: SE Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

Also, I believe enemy troops gain experience from being on the receiving end of artillery bombardments. So, long, drawn out bombardments may, at least in this regard, actually help beef up the enemy defense.

Another reason Q-ball you will have to rethink buying out those units. I found that they are only effective in open terrian. Save your PP's for something else...

_____________________________


Japan AC wire chart here
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2769286&mpage=1&key=?

(in reply to Icedawg)
Post #: 11
RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/24/2012 12:44:23 AM   
Commander Stormwolf

 

Posts: 1531
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
Artillery power is okay where it is (weak)

BUT you need to Nerf counter-battery fire

sometimes you lose more guns than the enemy,
I tried an experiment with every single japanese artillery gun on Dec 7 at hong kong
and even with 1000+ guns you lose 10 guns per bombard and the hong kong garrison
only loses 50 troops dissabled

_____________________________

"No Enemy Survives Contact with the Plan" - Commander Stormwolf

(in reply to Hanzberger)
Post #: 12
RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/24/2012 2:40:45 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 6271
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Artillery now works fine. It is a support weapon and is an invaluable aid in combat. Use it to support attack and defense and it will increase the combat capabilities of units. You can forget about bombardment-it is no longer very useful in that role

_____________________________

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." Godwin's Law

(in reply to Commander Stormwolf)
Post #: 13
RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/24/2012 6:43:51 AM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 2148
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline 		I still bring it to the party, because it's still artillery and I like the idea of the big guns pounding away.

Actually, I think it is best used supporting combat operations, but is rather nerfed on it's own. So bring it to the fight to support your ground forces where it is most effective, but forget about using it purely in a bombardment role. Disruption to enemy formations is negligible from bombardment, and why provide a free training program for the enemy with experience gains.

If air bombardments have been scaled back, I don't see it happening at low altitude. I've lost upwards of a 1000 casualties in one raid in 2x terrain from Japanese bombers flying at 2k. Low level bombing is nuclear in this game, especially against the Chinese with no appreciable AA capability. The disruption caused from air attack at that altitude makes it impossible to hold, even in 3x terrain.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 5/24/2012 6:45:00 AM >

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 14
RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/25/2012 2:15:02 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 4514
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		I use bombardment only to discover the opposing forces.  Arty helps deliberate attacks a lot.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 15
RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/25/2012 3:39:53 AM   
Icedawg


Posts: 1352
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I use bombardment only to discover the opposing forces.  Arty helps deliberate attacks a lot.


I always thought this feature of the game was a bit odd. How exactly does lobbing shells at an enemy position tell you the exact enemy units you are facing?

The only thing I can think of is that an assumed part of a bombardment would be a bit of prior recon performed to scout out potential enemy targets. But even this wouldn't tell you the identity of all enemy units in the hex, right?

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 16
RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/25/2012 4:50:10 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 6271
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I use bombardment only to discover the opposing forces.  Arty helps deliberate attacks a lot.


I always thought this feature of the game was a bit odd. How exactly does lobbing shells at an enemy position tell you the exact enemy units you are facing?

The only thing I can think of is that an assumed part of a bombardment would be a bit of prior recon performed to scout out potential enemy targets. But even this wouldn't tell you the identity of all enemy units in the hex, right?


Well it is a bit dicey. But when you figure that the traditional ways of gathering intel (Probes, recon in force, spies, prisoners and so on) then I don't have a lot of problem with it. After a day or two of contact, armies pretty much had a good idea of what they were facing.


_____________________________

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." Godwin's Law

(in reply to Icedawg)
Post #: 17
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Is WITP Artillery the God of War? Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.326