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Is WITP Artillery the God of War?

 
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Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/23/2012 6:07:35 PM   
Q-Ball


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I've been away for a year, and wondering where Artillery sits in WITP-AE right now. Specifically, how effective is it really?

In the early AE days, it was very effective, and changes were made once players were obliterating Chinese units with massed IJA Artillery. Some were thinking the pendulum swung too far, as it's difficult to see direct results. Certainly, bombardment attacks alone kill almost nobody, and probably serve to train your enemy's inexperienced troops more than anything else. In the old WITP days, it was standard practice to never bombard Chinese troops for this reason: it just trained them.

Anyway, as Japan I still dutifully bring Artillery units to the party. But am I wasting my time?

Thoughts?
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RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/23/2012 6:40:12 PM   
SuluSea


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My limited experience says yes you are. From what I've seen on clear ground I haven't seen much effectiveness against starting Chinese units... There's no doubt that the early artillery was warped but I do believe the pendulum has swung a little too far. I'm a believer that the only thing artillery is really useful for at this point is wasting the enemy's supply in counterbattery fire.

I'm thinking at this point arty is only good for use against cut off troops. I'm interested to see the general consensus here from folks that play the Japanese side.

Good thread.

< Message edited by SuluSea -- 5/23/2012 6:42:58 PM >

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RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/23/2012 6:42:26 PM   
witpqs


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Fixed. Artillery is pretty good now. It helps attacks, burns supplies (for the shooter too!), but is NOT nuclear.

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RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/23/2012 6:57:30 PM   
Hermit

 

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I thought it also reduces the morale of enemy troops, which affects their combat effectiveness. So even with no direct damage it would help the eventual ground attack.

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RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/23/2012 7:16:48 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermit

I thought it also reduces the morale of enemy troops, which affects their combat effectiveness. So even with no direct damage it would help the eventual ground attack.

Probably does, I was not trying to be all-inclusive. I think that when Q-Ball took a break from AE that arty was doing nuclear strike damage, so I was really answering that.

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RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/23/2012 7:29:05 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I've been away for a year, and wondering where Artillery sits in WITP-AE right now. Specifically, how effective is it really?

In the early AE days, it was very effective, and changes were made once players were obliterating Chinese units with massed IJA Artillery. Some were thinking the pendulum swung too far, as it's difficult to see direct results. Certainly, bombardment attacks alone kill almost nobody, and probably serve to train your enemy's inexperienced troops more than anything else. In the old WITP days, it was standard practice to never bombard Chinese troops for this reason: it just trained them.

Anyway, as Japan I still dutifully bring Artillery units to the party. But am I wasting my time?

Thoughts?


It's been significantly scaled back. It's of questionable value to bring to a hex with a dug in opponent in rough terrain, but can (like airborne attacks) cause worthwhile damage against an opponent in the open. My opinion is that the damage has been *too* nerfed compared to where it once was. You know how the WiTP programming pendulum goes though-squeakiest wheel gets the oil and all that...

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RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/23/2012 7:29:45 PM   
Nikademus


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Arty was toned back in terms of "casualties" and more recently so was Air Ground attack. More importantly than morale effects, bombardment causes disruption which is a major factor in modified combat odds. Thats the underlying factor when a unit fails an attack (espeically a shock attack) and is then itself counter-attacked. Because the disruption is high (along with fatigue if in combat long enough) it makes even an LCU with a low disabled device count far less effective.


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RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/23/2012 8:25:12 PM   
geofflambert


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In my experience, the Chinese are foolish to attack without considerable artillery support unless they outnumber the Japanese by 3 or 4 to one.  It also seems to buck them up on the defense.  I never bombard anyone on purpose.  British and Australian brigades and US regiments seem to be self supporting enough not to need them so much.

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RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/23/2012 10:36:27 PM   
FatR

 

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I find that artillery nowadays is an important force enhancer in normal attacks, but bombardment attacks generally aren't worth it, save for the most extreme cases, like 20 arty units pounding on the remnants of most of the Chinese army in Chungking. Counterbattery fire is considerably more effective that bombardment fire, so, unless the enemy has far weaker firepower, you will just impale yourself. And in rough terrain bombardments do no damage, unless it is battle between huge stacks.

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RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/23/2012 10:54:22 PM   
Icedawg


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Also, I believe enemy troops gain experience from being on the receiving end of artillery bombardments. So, long, drawn out bombardments may, at least in this regard, actually help beef up the enemy defense.

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RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/24/2012 12:34:37 AM   
Hanzberger


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

Also, I believe enemy troops gain experience from being on the receiving end of artillery bombardments. So, long, drawn out bombardments may, at least in this regard, actually help beef up the enemy defense.

Another reason Q-ball you will have to rethink buying out those units. I found that they are only effective in open terrian. Save your PP's for something else...

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RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/24/2012 12:44:23 AM   
Commander Stormwolf

 

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Artillery power is okay where it is (weak)

BUT you need to Nerf counter-battery fire

sometimes you lose more guns than the enemy,
I tried an experiment with every single japanese artillery gun on Dec 7 at hong kong
and even with 1000+ guns you lose 10 guns per bombard and the hong kong garrison
only loses 50 troops dissabled

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RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/24/2012 2:40:45 AM   
crsutton


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Artillery now works fine. It is a support weapon and is an invaluable aid in combat. Use it to support attack and defense and it will increase the combat capabilities of units. You can forget about bombardment-it is no longer very useful in that role

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RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/24/2012 6:43:51 AM   
SqzMyLemon


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I still bring it to the party, because it's still artillery and I like the idea of the big guns pounding away.

Actually, I think it is best used supporting combat operations, but is rather nerfed on it's own. So bring it to the fight to support your ground forces where it is most effective, but forget about using it purely in a bombardment role. Disruption to enemy formations is negligible from bombardment, and why provide a free training program for the enemy with experience gains.

If air bombardments have been scaled back, I don't see it happening at low altitude. I've lost upwards of a 1000 casualties in one raid in 2x terrain from Japanese bombers flying at 2k. Low level bombing is nuclear in this game, especially against the Chinese with no appreciable AA capability. The disruption caused from air attack at that altitude makes it impossible to hold, even in 3x terrain.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 5/24/2012 6:45:00 AM >


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RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/25/2012 2:15:02 AM   
PaxMondo


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I use bombardment only to discover the opposing forces.  Arty helps deliberate attacks a lot.

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RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/25/2012 3:39:53 AM   
Icedawg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I use bombardment only to discover the opposing forces.  Arty helps deliberate attacks a lot.


I always thought this feature of the game was a bit odd. How exactly does lobbing shells at an enemy position tell you the exact enemy units you are facing?

The only thing I can think of is that an assumed part of a bombardment would be a bit of prior recon performed to scout out potential enemy targets. But even this wouldn't tell you the identity of all enemy units in the hex, right?

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RE: Is WITP Artillery the God of War? - 5/25/2012 4:50:10 AM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I use bombardment only to discover the opposing forces.  Arty helps deliberate attacks a lot.


I always thought this feature of the game was a bit odd. How exactly does lobbing shells at an enemy position tell you the exact enemy units you are facing?

The only thing I can think of is that an assumed part of a bombardment would be a bit of prior recon performed to scout out potential enemy targets. But even this wouldn't tell you the identity of all enemy units in the hex, right?


Well it is a bit dicey. But when you figure that the traditional ways of gathering intel (Probes, recon in force, spies, prisoners and so on) then I don't have a lot of problem with it. After a day or two of contact, armies pretty much had a good idea of what they were facing.


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