From: The Zone™
ORIGINAL: Michael T
@TD, I think Fredrik took the fighting forward defence to the extreme, with a very aggressive attitude. I think fighting forward is possible with a less aggressive stance and not sacrificing so many units with the tar baby approach. I am not saying he should not push some units forward or not make any attacks. Just less so. This is why I wanted the return game, to try a forward defence when forced to do so but with my slant on it.
The forward defence requires much more skill to pull off than any other type. But it makes for a much better game and it should be encouraged by some mechanic in the game. But it is not. Bottom line, the forward defence should be encouraged and the run for the hills approach discouraged. I think the best way to do this would be with some more sophisticated VC, including sudden death for running too far too soon. Equally I advocate for rules or VC that discourage the Axis running as well.
So to answer your question I think the result in our game is normal and expected, considering the extreme strategy employed by Fredrik, and assuming a certain level of player skill on the part if the German. But a German player less skilled or more prone to mistakes would struggle against Fredrik’s strategy.
Thanks for the answer
On my other game (vs 2ndACR) I had done exactly this: mob the panzers with overwhelming hordes. To great effect I would say. But then Sabre21 had enigmatically said successive lines were the way to go. And this is the strategy I followed during 1941 on my current game (vs Marquo). It basically worked. I always had -at any given time- minimum 3 lines in the center (Moscow he he he). In fact that's what the Soviets did (and needless to say the various lines were encircled and destroyed the same -let's never forget that). You bring your units forward and basically fight and stay.
I am not sure this would have made a difference though (against you that is).
And still, as I have said some comments ago (see above), it is a fact that the Soviet player does not have all the men and counters that were available in the real thing. And this means the players are necessarily on the razor's edge. We could see this in almost every Tarhunnas's screenshot: his mob around your panzers... and nothing left behind. This is living from hand to mouth.
What I don't understand is why they castrated the Soviet OOB & manpower during 1941
Said this, as I said two or three times, I agree with you. Soviets should be fighting (and therefore take historical losses) like their historical counterparts... but... fix the logistics, gimme the historical Soviet OOB... Without this I don't think it's fair.
EDIT: on the screenshot you can see the 20th Army positioned on the third line. On turn 27 this army became the 1st Guards Army, which obviously means I was not avoiding the fight. I fought.
< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 6/11/2012 2:57:24 PM >
"I don't know what the hell this 'logistics' is that Marshall is always talking about, but I want some of it" - Ernest King