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Want to win a CV battle? Pray to the weather gods!

 
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Want to win a CV battle? Pray to the weather gods! - 5/18/2012 8:18:51 PM   
Miller


Posts: 1643
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline
Date: May 44. Opposing forces: IJN (Me) - 12 CV approx (F/DB/TB) 350/350/240 a/c. USN - 6 CV 7 CVL approx 380/216/170 a/c.

So on the face of it I'm looking good. 200 extra srike a/c............however day one plays out:

Range 8 hexes, no strikes from him (Allies hardcoded to 7 hexes I think)...........My strikes go into a 350 Hellcat CAP and attack in Thunderstroms, the results:


Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 40 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 93
B6N2 Jill x 82
D4Y3 Judy x 84



Allied aircraft
FM-1 Wildcat x 1
F6F-3 Hellcat x 355


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 8 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 28 destroyed, 7 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 8 destroyed by flak
D4Y3 Judy: 16 destroyed, 10 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 20 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 7 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVL Cabot
CVL Monterey
CVL Belleau Wood, Torpedo hits 1
CL Montpelier
CV Hornet II
CV Wasp II
BB Alabama, Torpedo hits 1
CVL Cowpens
CVL Independence
BB Prince of Wales, Torpedo hits 1
CVL Langley
BB New Jersey
CV Essex

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 40 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 34
B6N2 Jill x 36
D4Y3 Judy x 51



Allied aircraft
FM-1 Wildcat x 1
F6F-3 Hellcat x 273


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 8 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 11 destroyed, 6 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 3 destroyed by flak
D4Y3 Judy: 9 destroyed, 13 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 7 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales
CV Essex
CVL Belleau Wood
BB Alabama, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CVL Independence


Final tally...........Approx 230 Judys and Jills lost for more or less nothing.......and my advantage in strike a/c gone.

So obviously my opponent closes in for the next day.........I'm thinking I will be lucky to trade CV for CV now.........however I deliberately keep my fleets in the Thunderstorms area weather wise.


DAY 2

The gods of war smile on me and sh*t on my opponent. Firstly some of his CV Tfs split up and therefore lose full CAP coverage.........and its his turn to attack into bad weather.........meanwhile my strikes face weakened CAP and fly into good weather.......the results:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Adak Island at 168,65

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 177



Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 62
SB2C-1C Helldiver x 29
TBF-1 Avenger x 27
TBM-1C Avenger x 54


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 6 destroyed
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 5 destroyed, 4 damaged
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 3 destroyed by flak
TBF-1 Avenger: 9 destroyed, 7 damaged
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed by flak
TBM-1C Avenger: 8 destroyed, 17 damaged
TBM-1C Avenger: 2 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
CV Shinano
CV Hiryu
CV Akagi, Torpedo hits 1
CV Soryu
BB Hiei
BB Kirishima
BB Kongo, Torpedo hits 1
BB Haruna
CV Shokaku


Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 143



Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 48
SB2C-1C Helldiver x 100
TBF-1 Avenger x 18
TBM-1C Avenger x 18


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 4 destroyed
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 11 destroyed, 11 damaged
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 4 destroyed by flak
TBF-1 Avenger: 7 destroyed, 3 damaged
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed by flak
TBM-1C Avenger: 8 destroyed, 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Hiryu
BB Kongo, on fire
BB Hiei
CV Shokaku
CV Soryu
CV Shinano
CV Taiho
CV Akagi, Bomb hits 1
BB Haruna
BB Kirishima

Unbelieveably bad results for this attack, regardless of weather........

Now his CV fleets have split into two groups.........so much reduced CAP thanks to that and the escorts needed for his strikes on my CVs mean this:


Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 39 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 52
B6N2 Jill x 71
D4Y3 Judy x 41



Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 66


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 5 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 11 destroyed, 11 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 2 destroyed by flak
D4Y3 Judy: 10 destroyed, 8 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 4 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 4 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVL Cabot
CVL Langley, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CVL Cowpens, Torpedo hits 1
BB New Jersey, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CVL Monterey, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Franks, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

And this........


Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 39 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 65
B6N2 Jill x 40
D4Y1 Judy x 36
D4Y3 Judy x 38



Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 77


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 3 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 4 destroyed, 16 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 4 destroyed by flak
D4Y1 Judy: 3 destroyed, 14 damaged
D4Y1 Judy: 5 destroyed by flak
D4Y3 Judy: 6 destroyed, 8 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 6 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Bunker Hill, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1
CV Intrepid, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
BB South Dakota, Bomb hits 6, on fire
CV Hornet II, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CV Wasp II
CA Baltimore

And this......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Atka Island at 170,67

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 40 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 92
B6N2 Jill x 83
D4Y1 Judy x 36
D4Y3 Judy x 59



Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 60


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 4 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 2 destroyed, 21 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 2 destroyed by flak
D4Y1 Judy: 2 damaged
D4Y1 Judy: 2 destroyed by flak
D4Y3 Judy: 2 destroyed, 16 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 5 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 7 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Essex, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires
CVL Independence, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
DD Claxton, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CVL San Jacinto, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Iowa, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CVL Bataan, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CL Denver
CL Santa Fe, Bomb hits 1
DD DeHaven
DD Chauncey, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Boston
CA Canberra II, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Dortch, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Montpelier
DD Eaton


His only weak PM attack is chewed up by my CAP.......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Adak Island at 168,65

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 137



Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 10
SB2C-1C Helldiver x 12
TBF-1 Avenger x 9
TBM-1C Avenger x 18


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 9 destroyed
TBF-1 Avenger: 6 destroyed
TBM-1C Avenger: 6 destroyed


End results: Looks like he will lose 2 CV and 2 or 3 CVL......with others badly damaged.

PRAY TO THE WEATHER GODS MY FRIENDS


Post #: 1
RE: Want to win a CV battle? Pray to the weather gods! - 5/18/2012 8:34:16 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4592
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
In fact I perform a certain rain dance choreography before specific turns....

_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 2
RE: Want to win a CV battle? Pray to the weather gods! - 5/18/2012 8:35:01 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2128
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline
I learned that lesson already. Torpedobombers hit NOTHING in thunderstorms. At least my own.....
Good to see that result confirmed here.

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 3
RE: Want to win a CV battle? Pray to the weather gods! - 5/18/2012 8:50:37 PM   
ADB123

 

Posts: 1557
Joined: 8/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Final tally...........Approx 230 Judys and Jills lost for more or less nothing.......and my advantage in strike a/c gone.


From what you posted for Day 1 my calculator tells me that you lost 102 Judys and Jills in total. So where did you lose the other 128?


(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 4
RE: Want to win a CV battle? Pray to the weather gods! - 5/18/2012 9:04:17 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 2908
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ADB123

quote:

Final tally...........Approx 230 Judys and Jills lost for more or less nothing.......and my advantage in strike a/c gone.


From what you posted for Day 1 my calculator tells me that you lost 102 Judys and Jills in total. So where did you lose the other 128?


You should know from experience that the combat report is never an accurate tally of aircraft lost. It is almost always far less than what is truly lost on the day. Watch the combat replay carefully and record every red texted air loss. That is a truer indication to what you lose on the turn and then the intelligence report adds losses from Ops.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to ADB123)
Post #: 5
RE: Want to win a CV battle? Pray to the weather gods! - 5/18/2012 9:18:12 PM   
ADB123

 

Posts: 1557
Joined: 8/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: ADB123

quote:

Final tally...........Approx 230 Judys and Jills lost for more or less nothing.......and my advantage in strike a/c gone.


From what you posted for Day 1 my calculator tells me that you lost 102 Judys and Jills in total. So where did you lose the other 128?


You should know from experience that the combat report is never an accurate tally of aircraft lost. It is almost always far less than what is truly lost on the day. Watch the combat replay carefully and record every red texted air loss. That is a truer indication to what you lose on the turn and then the intelligence report adds losses from Ops.


Sure, if you include Ops losses on the way home the total tends to go up, but I've never seen it go up over 100%.

BTW - again from what is posted - Total Japanese bombers attacking:

Day 1 - 118 Jills, 135 Judys

Day 2 - 194 Jills, 210 Judys

Somehow, I really doubt that he lost 90% of the bombers During his Day 1 attacks...

So my guess is that either he didn't post everything that flew on Day 1, or else he made a typo.

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 6
RE: Want to win a CV battle? Pray to the weather gods! - 5/18/2012 9:58:40 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 2908
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ADB123

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: ADB123

quote:

Final tally...........Approx 230 Judys and Jills lost for more or less nothing.......and my advantage in strike a/c gone.


From what you posted for Day 1 my calculator tells me that you lost 102 Judys and Jills in total. So where did you lose the other 128?


You should know from experience that the combat report is never an accurate tally of aircraft lost. It is almost always far less than what is truly lost on the day. Watch the combat replay carefully and record every red texted air loss. That is a truer indication to what you lose on the turn and then the intelligence report adds losses from Ops.


Sure, if you include Ops losses on the way home the total tends to go up, but I've never seen it go up over 100%.

BTW - again from what is posted - Total Japanese bombers attacking:

Day 1 - 118 Jills, 135 Judys

Day 2 - 194 Jills, 210 Judys

Somehow, I really doubt that he lost 90% of the bombers During his Day 1 attacks...

So my guess is that either he didn't post everything that flew on Day 1, or else he made a typo.


That may indeed be the case when you point that out. I'd just like to add to what I said about the combat report not being accurate though. A recent series of air battles in Burma in my PBEM indicated I'd lost 33 Oscar's on the day to A2A. The actual number was 74 A2A and an additional 15 lost to Ops. A far cry from the 33 stated in the report, almost triple in fact. My point was just to caution people reading too much into the combat reports, they don't always provide an accurate picture of what really occurred.

Perhaps Miller meant 230 total aircraft over the two days, but I tend to believe his initial claim. I'd easily add 1/3 or more to the numbers the combat report claims and that would be closer to the actual losses on the day. Only Miller can confirm this though.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 5/20/2012 2:30:24 AM >


_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to ADB123)
Post #: 7
RE: Want to win a CV battle? Pray to the weather gods! - 5/18/2012 10:18:00 PM   
Miller


Posts: 1643
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ADB123


quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: ADB123

quote:

Final tally...........Approx 230 Judys and Jills lost for more or less nothing.......and my advantage in strike a/c gone.


From what you posted for Day 1 my calculator tells me that you lost 102 Judys and Jills in total. So where did you lose the other 128?


You should know from experience that the combat report is never an accurate tally of aircraft lost. It is almost always far less than what is truly lost on the day. Watch the combat replay carefully and record every red texted air loss. That is a truer indication to what you lose on the turn and then the intelligence report adds losses from Ops.


Sure, if you include Ops losses on the way home the total tends to go up, but I've never seen it go up over 100%.

BTW - again from what is posted - Total Japanese bombers attacking:

Day 1 - 118 Jills, 135 Judys

Day 2 - 194 Jills, 210 Judys

Somehow, I really doubt that he lost 90% of the bombers During his Day 1 attacks...

So my guess is that either he didn't post everything that flew on Day 1, or else he made a typo.



Quite a few attack sqds failed to locate the target on day 1 due to the weather (lucky for me in hindsight). The first day losses of 230 strike a/c are correct.

Edit: The extra 40 strike a/c on day 2 are reserve a/c.

< Message edited by Miller -- 5/18/2012 10:20:50 PM >

(in reply to ADB123)
Post #: 8
RE: Want to win a CV battle? Pray to the weather gods! - 5/19/2012 1:50:19 PM   
Phanatik


Posts: 140
Joined: 10/22/2009
From: Nashville, Tn
Status: offline
What was the little computer pilot thinking that went after DD Franks when there are so many capital ships around?

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 9
RE: Want to win a CV battle? Pray to the weather gods! - 5/19/2012 3:06:21 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5910
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I'd easily add 1/3 or more to the numbers the combat report claims and that would be closer to the actual losses on the day.

Agreed.

Combat Report doesn't include those losses that ocurr due to battle damage on the way home. Depending upon distance, this can be very significant.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 10
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