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New player needs advice about enemy AI [SPOILERS]

 
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New player needs advice about enemy AI [SPOILERS] - 5/17/2012 9:12:24 AM   
Foxendown

 

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My first post, having recently acquired the ultimate edition. I've been playing H3 ANW v. 3.10 with the H3 database. Apart from the tutorials, I have only played three scenarios so far (from the US side) all out of the Cold War battleset: "Watch that First Step", Airlane Raiders" and "Fish in a Barrel". All very enjoyable and I've found the learning curve not quite so steep as I had expected. My only problem is understanding enemy AI behaviour. Friendly AI seems very intelligent and I really like the way you can set up patrols and the AI handles the "change of the guard". However,

"Watch that First Step" (playing US side) A Russian submarine surfaced in the middle of intensive ASW activity and proceeded on the surface at 5kts. it didn't live long, but why would it do that?

"Airlane Raiders" Soviet SAG launches a series of sorties by aircraft and helos within range of my missiles, 26 shot down for the loss of one helo. Soviet SAG engages my TF at a range where my missiles are in range and theirs aren't: two of their major ships sunk. No attempt made by Russian SAG to close the range, no missiles launched. They had launched a fairly massive missile attack earlier, but if they were low on missiles, I would assume the AI would keep its distance.

"Fish in a Barrel" My TF is sailing up and down the Red Sea but the enemy seems timid. One enemy sub sunk early on and after about an hour a few sporadic air attacks, easily defeated. Most of the enemy air activity seems to be over Saudi Arabia. I sent out some fighter sweeps but the enemy turns tail and runs. I loaded the scenario from the Russian side out of curiosity and they seem to have more than enough air power to give me a hard time, however I saw an error message stating their AWACS couldn't take off because the runway was the wrong size, perhaps that was causing a problem?

As a newb it's possible I just misinterpreting what I'm seeing and I have greatly enjoyed the scenarios despite all this. I realise this is not really a tech issue but I couldn't see a "advice for newbs" sub forum. Sorry if I'm posting in the wrong place.
Post #: 1
RE: New player needs advice about enemy AI [SPOILERS] - 5/20/2012 7:18:22 AM   
JSF

 

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Hi,

welcome to Harpoon.

First a question: With "H3 Database" you mean the H3 Standard Database - right? If so, just a hint: This db is still included in Harpoon, but is no longer supported from AGSI, the developer.

You find the same stock scenarios attached to the HUD 3 V 1.5.0 database, which has become the official one and thus the Standard DB´s successor.

Regarding your questions about the AI´s cleverness. Well, the AI itself is rather dumb and the scenario designer needs to design workarounds thus making the AI smarter.

I just looked into "Fish in Barrel", using different databases and different game engines (GE). This scenario is one of the not so challenging stock scenarios. many possibilities to make it sharper weren´t used. For example the AI simply has not enough intelligence / data collectors close to your carrier group to make it harder.

As to "Watch that first step", please try it under the V 3.6.3 included in the bundle. I would not be surprised if the hostile subs would be much more aggressive and not creeping along.

Regarding "Airlane Raiders" this may be too easy playing nato side, again.

The problem is to balance a scenario thus it is challenging from both sides. As a consequence many non-stock scenarios are only one-side playable and the AI side gets superior units, intelligence collectors etc. Those scenariso can be very challenging.

Hope that helps a little.

Enjoy weekend.

(in reply to Foxendown)
Post #: 2
RE: New player needs advice about enemy AI [SPOILERS] - 5/20/2012 12:32:33 PM   
Foxendown

 

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Thanks for your helpful reply. Sorry, I typed "H3" when I meant "HUD 3.0" (the version you mention).

I assumed that if there was a choice of sides, both would be equally playable, but I see now that is not necessarily the case! Easy scenarios are quite useful though for learning things like mission planning and the formation editor.

I played a scenario you wrote recently, very nice indeed thanks, but I couldn't save my carrier from a huge cloud of Kh-22s, that one is probably too far the other way at the moment so now looking for some middle ground in Harpoon.

< Message edited by Foxendown -- 5/20/2012 12:33:37 PM >

(in reply to JSF)
Post #: 3
RE: New player needs advice about enemy AI [SPOILERS] - 5/20/2012 5:10:09 PM   
JSF

 

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You´re welcome. Have fun.

(in reply to Foxendown)
Post #: 4
RE: New player needs advice about enemy AI [SPOILERS] - 5/20/2012 6:25:24 PM   
JSF

 

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Foxendown,

haven´t done any scenario work for several months, but our discussion was fun and thus I tweaked that "Fish in a Barrel" scenario. I used the same database version = HUD 3 V 1.5.0, the one included in your Ultimate Edition release and the one you currently use.

Just put the scenario in your HUD 3 scenarios folder and load it.

Here it is, uploaded in the scenario section:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3108792&mpage=1&key=�

Hope you have fun. Be careful using time compression

< Message edited by JSF -- 5/20/2012 6:26:01 PM >

(in reply to JSF)
Post #: 5
RE: New player needs advice about enemy AI [SPOILERS] - 5/20/2012 7:14:05 PM   
JSF

 

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...and yes, you were right: there was a VLarge runway missing; I added it. Now the large birds really take off.

(in reply to JSF)
Post #: 6
RE: New player needs advice about enemy AI [SPOILERS] - 5/20/2012 9:20:59 PM   
Vincenzo Beretta


Posts: 577
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From: Milan, Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxendown

Easy scenarios are quite useful though for learning things like mission planning and the formation editor.

For a choice of simple introductory scenarios, this might helpful:

Introductory H3 PlayersDB Scenarios

(in reply to Foxendown)
Post #: 7
RE: New player needs advice about enemy AI [SPOILERS] - 5/21/2012 7:19:55 PM   
Foxendown

 

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Fantastic, thank you both, in particular for the revised scenario. I'll try that tonight. Yes, it's good to talk about this kind of thing, I was wondering where the best forum is for that? Some of the places that must have been very active once seem quiet now, one even has locked threads. It needs a forum something like "Harpoon gameplay discussion: new players welcome"

(in reply to JSF)
Post #: 8
RE: New player needs advice about enemy AI [SPOILERS] - 5/21/2012 8:33:17 PM   
Vincenzo Beretta


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/13/2001
From: Milan, Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxendown

it's good to talk about this kind of thing, I was wondering where the best forum is for that?

Some folks have been able to get their questions answered at:

Yom Hadin Problem

Harpoon for Dummies

HUE Newbie questions about Classic GUIK mission 2

Anyone help with installing Harpoon Ultimate Edition win7 x64

(in reply to Foxendown)
Post #: 9
RE: New player needs advice about enemy AI [SPOILERS] - 5/21/2012 9:54:35 PM   
Foxendown

 

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Thanks for that, very useful.

One more follow up question (last one, promise), how do install new scenarios? I tried to keep both versions so I edited the *.dsd file but the new scenario doesn't show up. Also I notice that there is a *.sem file for each scenario (something to do with rebuilding a scenario from an earlier version?)

It's OK, I now have it sorted.

< Message edited by Foxendown -- 5/21/2012 10:12:02 PM >

(in reply to Vincenzo Beretta)
Post #: 10
RE: New player needs advice about enemy AI [SPOILERS] - 5/22/2012 8:11:26 AM   
Vincenzo Beretta


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/13/2001
From: Milan, Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxendown

how do install new scenarios?

A special program/editor is required for creating or modifying *.DSD files. When dealing with PlayersDB scenarios, you never need to worry about things like *.DSD or *.SEM files.

Installing the PlayersDB

Harpoon3.6.3 users can get the Complete PlayersDB Harpoon 3.6.3 Library
Harpoon ANW users can get the Complete PlayersDB Harpoon ANW Library
Harpoon HUE users can get the Complete PlayersDB Harpoon HUE Library

(in reply to Foxendown)
Post #: 11
RE: New player needs advice about enemy AI [SPOILERS] - 5/23/2012 6:12:17 PM   
Foxendown

 

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Thanks Vincenzo. As JSF went to the trouble of fixing the scenario for me I thought I'd have a go at an AAR, kind of "new player's approach laid bare". OK I'll make some mistakes, but it could be an interesting exercise. May take a while though, I quite like playing in real time or low level time acceleration.

(in reply to Vincenzo Beretta)
Post #: 12
RE: New player needs advice about enemy AI [SPOILERS] - 5/24/2012 4:25:55 PM   
TonyE


Posts: 1508
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxendown
It needs a forum something like "Harpoon gameplay discussion: new players welcome"


HarpGamer, http://harpgamer.com, hosts discussion for 'both' games and is where HC (Harpoon Classic) development is hosted as well as the HUD4 database for H3 (Harpoon 3/ANW).

New players are very much welcome to join us there.


_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to Foxendown)
Post #: 13
RE: New player needs advice about enemy AI [SPOILERS] - 5/25/2012 2:40:26 PM   
Foxendown

 

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Joined: 5/17/2012
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Thanks Tony, I've registered.

(in reply to TonyE)
Post #: 14
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