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Sometimes / Anyone else?

 
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Sometimes / Anyone else? - 5/11/2012 4:35:29 PM   
Marshal Villars


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Sometimes I am playing and have ordered an attack...and it isn't materializing. They guys are sleeping or "defending". Seems like it can go on for half of a day or more before I get tired of it and try to prod them into action with new orders.

A recent trick of mine has been to just play with their rest setting. It would make sense to me if I told a group to go to "minimum rest" to get them out of their beds. But what is odd to me is that I just got a whole FSJ regiment to move by moving them from "minimum" rest to "normal" rest. When I did that, the whole regiment sprang to life and headed for the enemy lines in a well choreographed attack which I hadn't seen materialize in a while.

Anyone else experiencing this? Sleeping units forced into action by giving them MORE rest?
Post #: 1
RE: Sometimes / Anyone else? - 5/12/2012 12:28:22 AM   
Lieste

 

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Yes, when one or more sub-units have excessive fatigue the whole unit can come to a halt/delayed FU if the unit drops in/out of the active component of the force, forcing a replan.

Again, some thing you can do to reduce the behaviour, and to make it more consistent:

If one sub-unit is over fatigued. Drop it from the formation and give it some rest. Catch it up using a more direct/faster route if appropriate avoiding slogging through bad going if motorised, the long way if foot etc. Support units may be able to halt where they are and provide cover. Flank protection or defence of the LOC are valid missions for a unit that can't avoid falling out of the march.

If the whole unit is moderately fatigued, yet won't continue. If you can 'slip' the task then cancel the mission and revert to rest - fresh troops will be more effective once the delayed attack goes in.
Mostly this 'isn't good enough' and you want the attack to go in at a particular time, or 'soonest'.

In this case look at what you are asking the formation to do:

Start at Day 3 18:00
No rest until completion.
End at Day 11 00:01

No wonder they aren't keen, or confident in your command ability

Start at Day 3 18:00
You can behave normally.
End at Day 11 00:01

They'll sleep when required, be active between, but might consider starting tomorrow.

Start at Day 3 18:00
No rest until complete.
End at Day 4 12:00

18 hours of hard slog, but then... Rest. Get it DONE - URRAH!

The change of 'state' causes a re-assessment of fatigue/timings, and will often get things moving (like Hitler asking why the H*ll you aren't in Antwerp yet - you might think it a daft objective, but once under scrutiny have to follow through).

(in reply to Marshal Villars)
Post #: 2
RE: Sometimes / Anyone else? - 5/12/2012 10:06:22 PM   
loyalcitizen


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It is funny when they spring to life instantly with a button press that does not follow the chain of command. Since I play Painfully Realistic and want the Chain, I always remember to prod them when first giving the order.

(in reply to Lieste)
Post #: 3
RE: Sometimes / Anyone else? - 5/13/2012 12:32:01 AM   
Arjuna


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Also ensure you have stragglers checked as this allows the AI to ignore fatigued units, l;eaving these behind to rest.

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RE: Sometimes / Anyone else? - 5/13/2012 9:05:53 PM   
wodin


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If they aren't moving set it to NO REST. They always spring into action for me.

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Post #: 5
RE: Sometimes / Anyone else? - 5/14/2012 9:18:15 PM   
rfrizz


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Here's a trick I have used a very few times: FIRE ON THEM!

When a unit just sat there with its thumb up its butt, I ordered a barrage for 1 minute, slow rate of fire, and unchecked "Avoid Friendlies".

It usually worked.

I got the idea from the D-Day scene from The Big Red One. There was a soldier who was afraid to move and push the explosive "snake" forward to the barbed wire. He froze, and Lee Marvin started shooting warning shots to let the soldier know that he could risk getting shot by the Germans, or be shot by Marvin.

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 6
RE: Sometimes / Anyone else? - 5/15/2012 2:42:54 PM   
tukker

 

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I believe this method of 'encouraging' your troops will be SOP in the upcoming East Front game

Pieter

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Post #: 7
RE: Sometimes / Anyone else? - 5/19/2012 7:32:46 PM   
phoenix

 

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Dave - if you're there - I'm very curious - what Lieste mentions above in this thread, about morale improving etc if the task isn't too long (it's 6 posts above this one) - sounds great, but, is that actually modelled? I mean, if you change the END time on a task, can it really improve the position in the way he mentions? I've never ever bothered to change from the defaults, but would start to think I should if this is true. Thanks.

(in reply to tukker)
Post #: 8
RE: Sometimes / Anyone else? - 5/20/2012 1:13:10 AM   
Arjuna


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Lietste is basically saying that one of the things you need to be aware of is the fatigue state of your force and that one of the things you can do to manage tired forces is the Rest option in your orders. That's true enough. As a general rule don't expect an exhausted force to move or attack. So check the force's fatigue level before issuing them such an order. If its imperative, then set the Rest option to None. This will override the usual Fatigue assessment done in the planning and in the regular reassessments. Also if you change this setting then this may force a replan which can get exhausted forces moving.

_____________________________

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www.panthergames.com

(in reply to phoenix)
Post #: 9
RE: Sometimes / Anyone else? - 5/20/2012 7:20:45 AM   
Lieste

 

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I think it was a question more specifically about having the deadline and this improving task completion times - particularly in the case when routeing and bypass options compete, or other similar cases.
That if you give a force 11 days to complete a move, sometimes it might be happy to wait for most of them before finally becoming active. The same force given (say) 24 hours will either complete the task immediately or declare it unsafe and bunker down or abandon.

The shorter time will encourage more direct routes, faster action and more intensive use of the forces available. This might not always be exactly what you want.

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 10
RE: Sometimes / Anyone else? - 5/20/2012 12:44:41 PM   
phoenix

 

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Thanks Dave. Yes, that was the question, Lieste, and I take it that the morale effects perhaps implied are not modelled, but that you're right - giving less time must surely make a diff, and it's something that has completely slipped by me until now - so that I'm often waiting ages for an attack to go in. I have to start tampering with the END time, I think!

(in reply to Lieste)
Post #: 11
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