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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A)

 
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/1/2012 7:29:58 AM   
obvert


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Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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multiple...

... so I might as well add some entertainment value. This is one of the many reasons I'd like to try playing the Allied side soon. More and better images!

Mount #9 is a beaut! Gotta love the curve of those handles




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 6/1/2012 7:38:49 AM >

(in reply to koniu)
Post #: 121
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/1/2012 7:31:42 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
I need to get the new tracker going so it can tell me roughly how long all of these planes will take to research based on what I've got here, then figure out if I need more in one spot or another. But if anyone just has the experience to know, please chime in.


Do you have any problems with running tracker. For me upgrade was only copy and paste.
1.9.x is nice. Lots of good new options.


I simply have not tried yet. I will in the next few days. But I am more a mac user than PC, so sometimes the PC universe gets me confused. I've gotten better and it shouldn't be a problem, plus support is so good I'm sure it will get running soon.




< Message edited by obvert -- 6/1/2012 7:34:44 AM >

(in reply to koniu)
Post #: 122
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/1/2012 8:06:56 AM   
obvert


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Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Do you know where Force Z is? How do you plan on covering the landings? Strong SCTF or LBA/MKB or both? Given his agressive stance I think an intervension of your landings are very likely. How many BBs do you have available? 4?

Can´t help you on the industry stuff I´m afraid. It just looks like gibberish to me!


Force Z has not been spotted. It most likely didn't sprint out to Ceylon or the Andamans, as it was not sighted by naval searches in the straits during the first few days. I would guess it's in Soerabaja waiting to pounce.

I have the 4 BB that start as the Khota Bahru cover force, plus the CAs near Malaya on that side. 4 BB are heading to Babeldaob, plus the 3 CA/DD TF there now.

So there will be multiple surface forces, some may also be acting as fast transports. I hope to have a mini-KB in the DEI in about 7-10 days, but zeros are scarce right now. It'll mostly be LBA cover I'm guessing.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 123
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/1/2012 8:46:36 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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As long as Z is in the area you will have to cover every landing with your BBs. I think the key to speed things up a bit is to get a Nell/Betty base set up quickly. He will then have to withdraw outside LBA range or risk loosing the only sizeable force he has in the area. But I guess you already have that in mind!

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 124
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/2/2012 9:45:13 PM   
obvert


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Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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10 December 1941
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Lots of naval action around the Sulu and South China Seas. Some interesting choices by Torsten in the PI and one big ship missed twice by one of ours.

subs: Near Muntok on the approaches to Palembang I-166 shoots twice at the xAP Dominion Monarch and misses with both spreads! Grrrr. This could have major consequences if there are troops bound for Palembang on that ship. The rollover during the day shows two ships here. I'll risk the sub by sending it into Palembang to see if it can catch this ship again. (The attack report is exactly the same in the other instance later in the turn).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Muntok at 49,89

Japanese Ships
SS I-166

Allied Ships
xAP Dominion Monarch

xAP Dominion Monarch is sighted by SS I-166
SS I-166 launches 2 torpedoes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


S-41 goes for ships at Vigan, but finds our DDs which drop two penetrating hits on the sub. Also in the area PB Kyo Maru #13 hits S-36 3 times as well, one penetrating. Lots of search here which might be helping out.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Vigan at 80,73

Japanese Ships
DD Yudachi

Allied Ships
SS S-41, hits 3

SS S-41 is sighted by escort
S-41 bottoming out ....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I-153 takes out xAKL Marudu on the approaches to Oosthaven. Then later becomes our sub kill leader by hitting xAK Whangpu as well.

I-155 takes out xAP Kajang near Toboali.

And, to save the best for last, not to be outdone, I-123 gets in for a little bit of sub on sub action! Another one down!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub vs Sub: SS I-123 attacking SS S-38 at 75,83 - near Taytay

Japanese Ships
SS I-123

Allied Ships
SS S-38, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Massive explosion on SS S-38
SS I-123 launches 2 torpedoes at 3,000 yards
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Pacific: Today near Pearl the Zuikaku succumbs to her injuries and settles into the waves. Kagero also sinks.

The Wake invasion will begin loading from Eneweitok tomorrow and if the coast seems clear after our AKL TF passes by Wake, it's a go. No planes are showing on Wake now, so if the ships are sighted I'll know what's up.

China: A Corps sized force is heading for Chaochow on the coast near Suchow. There is only a 42 AV infantry unit there. I've got the Brigade in Suchow switching places with it now, which should shore things up. I'll also bring some armor from Pescadores to give some punch here. Bombing the unit will commence tomorrow.

Hong Kong was bombarded, giving a positive result. The troops will be hit tomorrow by air, and the ground forces will DA.

Malaya: Troops move forward. All ships finished unloading are repackaged and sent back to Saigon. That is about half of the ships that unloaded here. No sub hits in the area yet, although KXII was sighted by SC Ch 9 at Khota Baru and forced to dive.

Fighters are stationed at Patani, Singora and Khota Baru and will form a mostly defensive roll here until more Oscar Ic are available. Some will escort Sallys tomorrow to hit the troops fleeing Khota Baru in our only offensive air mission in the area.

PI: In the night a bundle of small ships were wiped out by the 3 SCTFs in the area. One is in the South China Sea, the other two in the entrance to the Sulu Sea. I'll spare the details of 11 xAKLs getting roughed up, but here is one more interesting combat.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Taytay at 75,83, Range 7,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Maya
CA Ashigara
CL Kuma
DD Asakaze
DD Matsukaze

Allied Ships
DD John D. Ford, Shell hits 1
PG Asheville, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
AS Canopus, Shell hits 26, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

AVD Childs
AO Trinity, Shell hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
TK Mindanao, Shell hits 10
TK Gertrude Kellogg, Shell hits 28, heavy fires, heavy damage




Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 57% moonlight: 11,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 7,000 yards
Japanese launch Long Lance torpedoes at 7,000 yards before allies detect Japanese presence
CA Ashigara launches Long Lance Torpedoes at DD John D. Ford at 7,000 yards
CA Ashigara launches Long Lance Torpedoes at PG Asheville at 7,000 yards
CL Kuma launches Torpedoes at AS Canopus at 7,000 yards
DD Matsukaze launches Torpedoes at DD John D. Ford at 7,000 yards
DD Matsukaze fires at AO Trinity at 7,000 yards
CA Ashigara launches Long Lance Torpedoes at TK Gertrude Kellogg at 7,000 yards
CL Kuma launches Torpedoes at TK Mindanao at 7,000 yards
DD Matsukaze engages DD John D. Ford at 7,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages PG Asheville at 7,000 yards
CL Kuma engages AS Canopus at 7,000 yards
DD Matsukaze engages DD John D. Ford at 7,000 yards
DD Asakaze engages DD John D. Ford at 7,000 yards
DD Matsukaze engages TK Gertrude Kellogg at 7,000 yards
DD Asakaze engages TK Mindanao at 7,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
DD John D. Ford engages DD Asakaze at 3,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages PG Asheville at 3,000 yards
CL Kuma engages AS Canopus at 3,000 yards
DD Matsukaze engages TK Mindanao at 3,000 yards
DD Asakaze engages TK Mindanao at 3,000 yards
DD Asakaze engages TK Gertrude Kellogg at 3,000 yards
DD Asakaze engages TK Mindanao at 3,000 yards
DD Asakaze engages DD John D. Ford at 3,000 yards
DD Asakaze engages AS Canopus at 3,000 yards
DD Asakaze engages TK Gertrude Kellogg at 3,000 yards
DD Matsukaze engages TK Mindanao at 3,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
AS Canopus sunk by CA Ashigara at 2,000 yards
CL Kuma engages TK Gertrude Kellogg at 2,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages AO Trinity at 2,000 yards
DD Matsukaze engages TK Gertrude Kellogg at 2,000 yards
DD Matsukaze engages TK Mindanao at 2,000 yards
TK Gertrude Kellogg sunk by CA Ashigara at 2,000 yards
Allied Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


After this the cruisers ran into the remnants of this TF again, but AVOIDED combat! I thought they must be out of ammo until I opened the turn and saw they still had 59% gun ammo and a few torps left. What gives, I wonder. They also turned down a fight with the xAK Capillo and xAK Ethel Edwards! They'll head back to Cam Rahn Bay where certain captains may be relieved.

In the air Torsten ran sweeps at Vigan today. Quite an interesting choice. I get his reasoning. He saw that I'd disbanded the ships in port, but also may have guessed I set the Tainan group at bomber defense height, 10k. So the sweeps were mildly effective at first, but once the first dives finished the zeros still ate up group after group. If the report is to be believed, about 48 US fighters were downed on the day, most to A to A combat. That means most of the pilots were likely lost as well, where we lost only 4 total on the day and 14 zeros downed to all causes across the map (that is aside from the full group that went down on Zuikaku).

B-17s came in but bombed the airfield, not the port. The results were poor for him. Only 6 hits on the field and 3 bombers lost out of 12.

PTs ran at Vigan, but the two SCTFs warded them off for now. MTBs showed up from Hong Kong and will likely visit soon as well.


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

A look at some small ops heading out tomorrow. No ships have been sighted today in the area except two CL at Ambon. Bettys are now in Babeldaob for search and an HQ is on the way to provide torps.

Some ships are heading to Saipan to take the big 30AV base force over to Guam, trying to take it on the cheap. I put an aggressive commander in the unit and its currently at rest getting moral up.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 6/3/2012 10:00:17 AM >

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 125
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/2/2012 9:59:04 PM   
obvert


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Between Two Islands
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

A lot of subs have been stationing here to hit any and all ships moving through the area. Unfortunately even though I-166 got two attempts, so far it let the big fish get away.

These two CLs are surely waiting for anything near Singkawang or Kuching. They'll get some action soon.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Attachment (1)

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 126
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/2/2012 10:08:00 PM   
obvert


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Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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Chinese Aggression
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

A rogue Corps looks to be heading for the coast. Unless more are coming behind it, this won't turn out well for the Chinese. I'm sending a Brigade form Swatow plus tanks from Pescadores. Bombing will commence tomorrow.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 6/2/2012 10:21:19 PM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 127
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/2/2012 11:34:03 PM   
Miller


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From: Ashington, England.
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Just a quick word on your aircraft reasearch program. I notice you are researching the Tony and the Jack. Forget them. The Tony is a pile of s h i t e compared to the Tojo.....whilst the Jack is slightly inferior to the George.

The backbone of your IJAAF sqds in 43/44 should consist of the Frank and the Tojo IIc variant.......build a few Oscars as well but only for long range escort purposes. The George is the best bomber destroyer available mid game but is hamstrung by its 3 service rating. However the K2 variant has a 2 service rating and is by far the best land based IJN fighter in the game until the very late war Sam and Shinden.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 128
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/3/2012 12:16:52 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Just a quick word on your aircraft reasearch program. I notice you are researching the Tony and the Jack. Forget them. The Tony is a pile of s h i t e compared to the Tojo.....whilst the Jack is slightly inferior to the George.

The backbone of your IJAAF sqds in 43/44 should consist of the Frank and the Tojo IIc variant.......build a few Oscars as well but only for long range escort purposes. The George is the best bomber destroyer available mid game but is hamstrung by its 3 service rating. However the K2 variant has a 2 service rating and is by far the best land based IJN fighter in the game until the very late war Sam and Shinden.


Thanks Miller. Having never been far enough in a PBEM to know what will be best in the mid-to-late war, it is still a bit of guesswork and using other people's knowledge to get this part right.

I have the Tonys going not for the early models, but to get to the Ki-61-Ic and Id models, which I can get to earlier than the Tojo IIc most likely by pushing forward the 3 factories. They would not fill the same roll of course but as I understand it the later Tonys can function as a decent bomber killer with the 2 20mm and armor. Pushing forward that line also gets me to the Ki-100 which isn't a Frank or George (at least in this game), but does have a service rating of 1, so might be useful.

The Jack I'll take your advice on and kill to change those over to more George factories, especially considering how many "extra" LB IJNAF fighter groups I'll have from the sunk CVs.

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 129
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/3/2012 9:34:46 AM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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No aircraft on Wake usually means the Wildcats have rebased to the Lexington, so forget Wake for now. He is probably hovering 10 hexes east of Wake just waiting for your troops. He is probably bringig in more troops and supplies aswell.

Use this instead. Let him keep Wake for now, prep a division instead and come for the island later together with everything. Let Wake be the bait that will draw him into a fight on your terms in 6 months.



_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 130
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/3/2012 10:42:20 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

No aircraft on Wake usually means the Wildcats have rebased to the Lexington, so forget Wake for now. He is probably hovering 10 hexes east of Wake just waiting for your troops. He is probably bringig in more troops and supplies aswell.

Use this instead. Let him keep Wake for now, prep a division instead and come for the island later together with everything. Let Wake be the bait that will draw him into a fight on your terms in 6 months.




The next turn will tell, really. The Wake fast transport will be ready to go and the AKLs will move North of Wake by two hexes. If he's there in time to stop the invasion, he'll have to sight those ships. If they are not sighted, I'll go forward.

Your plan sounds plausible if he is indeed waiting there. I've just never played a game as Japan without capturing Wake and I'm not sure what that would look like. If I had Wake on the Allied side I'd be pretty happy about that, and get it right to the stacking limit with tanks and Marine defense battalions. If I went in later I have a feeling I might lose more than the ships I'd lose now, even. Maybe I'll have to find out though.

(in reply to Panzerjaeger Hortlund)
Post #: 131
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/3/2012 7:39:25 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6957
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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11 December 1941
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

More fleeing ships slautered. More battles under the water. One more big miss.

subs: In a follow up from yesterday it was I-153's turn to miss the Dominion Monarch today. Man, lucky ship. I'll think I'll name my next car after it. This time it was a dud torp. But at least I know it wasn't heading directly to Palembang, although it could be dropping units at Oosthaven to move there anyway.

I-165 takes seven minor hits from the British.

S-41 stays at Vigan after getting hit a few times yesterday and takes another pounding for no gain today after missing DMS W-18.

I-155 takes two hits from 3 British DDs working the channel between Borneo and Sumatra. Good move by Torsten. These are the best ASW crews on the map right now.

KXI removes one of the transport from Patani, and the escorts might have erased the sub as well. Several direct hits and explosions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Patani at 51,73

Japanese Ships
xAK Chihaya Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Gosei Maru
xAK Yahiko Maru
SC Ch 8

Allied Ships
SS KXI, hits 10



SS KXI launches 2 torpedoes at xAK Chihaya Maru
KXI bottoming out ....
SC Ch 8 fails to find sub, continues to search...
SC Ch 8 attacking submerged sub ....
SC Ch 8 fails to find sub, continues to search...
SC Ch 8 fails to find sub, continues to search...
SC Ch 8 fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


KXII also takes seven hits but only one direct.

Pacific: AKLs approaching Wake. I should know more tomorrow, one way or the other.

So Pac: Kaveing targeted for a fast transport invasion.

China: The first Hong Kong attack goes well. Bombers hit the troops first, then the arty, then the engineers lowered the forts to 2. Tomorrow more of the same.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Hong Kong (77,61)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 24722 troops, 337 guns, 218 vehicles, Assault Value = 757

Defending force 6567 troops, 132 guns, 80 vehicles, Assault Value = 226

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Japanese adjusted assault: 556

Allied adjusted defense: 245

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 2)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
573 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 64 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 31 disabled


Allied ground losses:
558 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 76 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 11 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 12 (2 destroyed, 10 disabled)


Assaulting units:
38th Division
19th Ind. Engineer Regiment
66th Infantry Regiment
1st Ind.Inf.Group
20th Ind. Engineer Regiment
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Mortar Battalion
5th RF Gun Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
2nd RF Gun Battalion
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion

Defending units:
Winnipeg Grenadiers Battalion
1st Middlesex Battalion
Rifles of Canada Battalion
Kowloon Brigade
102nd RN Base Force
Hong Kong Fortress

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I liked SqzeMyLemon's idea about landing a division or two temporarily at Wenchow, and trying to remove that thorn in South China. Fits the plan, so I might just do it. Bombed the field for 8 hits. Reconned as well, and it looks like 19k troops in 3 units are there. So a base force and two corps. It would need two divisions and still be tough. Opinions?

Malaya: Alor Star came over to our side easily. That sends the tanks right on through. Just marching along.

PI: Took Laong today. No major incursions to our forces. Some transports headed back, others still unloading supply, making me nervous.

Ships in the Sulu Sea are about out of ammo and will head back to Can Ran Bay. A lot more AKLs hit and sunk plus a few tankers and A DD.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 6/3/2012 7:41:44 PM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 132
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/3/2012 7:57:04 PM   
fcharton

 

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From: Nemours, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
I liked SqzeMyLemon's idea about landing a division or two temporarily at Wenchow, and trying to remove that thorn in South China. Fits the plan, so I might just do it. Bombed the field for 8 hits. Reconned as well, and it looks like 19k troops in 3 units are there. So a base force and two corps. It would need two divisions and still be tough. Opinions?


KMT corps around Wenchow are strong ones (around 300AV) and the chinese begin the game with quite a few units scattered between Zhejiang and Fujian.

The Allies have two possible lines in this area : fall back on Nanchang (or Kanhsien), leaving a token force in Wenchow, or form a defensive line between Wenchow and Chuhsien, and perhaps, even, march on Hangchow or Wuhu. If your opponent chooses the former, the landings in Wenchow will be a walk in the park, else... you'll probably win in the end, but your two divisions will be stuck there for a long while and probably depleted in the end.

I'd land in Hangchow or Shaohing, to avoid detection, and either march on Wenchow or Chuhsien (you have major roads to both) depending on where enemy units are detected.

Francois

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 133
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/3/2012 11:01:04 PM   
obvert


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This is my difficulty with it. I feel it could happen quickly, but if he brings it all to Wenchow I could get stuck. Singapore is more important, obviously. This would need to be done in under a month. A few more days will tell whether its a right or wrong choice.

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 134
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/4/2012 12:49:32 AM   
fcharton

 

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Then, maybe you could send one unit along the road from Shaohing, to open the hexside into Wenchow. This would provide a path for retreat if things go wrong... Also, could a diversionary move on Changsha (or just around Nanchang) force your opponent to move back? Landing in Wenchow is uncommon (to say the least), if you present the Allies with a target (or a threat) in the interior, chances are the coast will be left with a token garrison.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 135
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/4/2012 1:52:56 AM   
obvert


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All good thoughts. The fact is that he is the one presenting me with a threat in the interior. Two units are moving to a hex between Kiukiang and Wuchang. I spotted the move early and I'm sending 2 divisions. If at they both arrive before he gets both of his units there, it could be a good thing for me. It would be nice to trash a good Corps to start things off. I'm bombing to slow progress now.

I am positioning behind the scenes to extricate the division from Hangchow and the Rgt from Shaohing to move them toward Wenchow. I should be able to beat his unit moving that direction by continuing to bomb it and getting the new garrisons there fast. A few days and my units will be able to move out. His unit is moving across from one road system to another, so might take two weeks or more.

He looks to be surrounding Nanchang as well. Not sure if he is actually thinking of attacking it. It starts with two brigades and level 4 forts, plus a division in Kiukiang one hex away. There is no way he can take that base once there is 1000AV in it at this stage of the game. Especially once the bombing begins, as it's a clear hex.

I'll also send the Anking based 114th division toward Chusien. Clearing the South is a big priority and could mean a much more smooth campaign here.

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 136
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/4/2012 8:02:07 AM   
Ddog

 

Posts: 206
Joined: 2/17/2005
From: Cincinnati, OH
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

All good thoughts. The fact is that he is the one presenting me with a threat in the interior. Two units are moving to a hex between Kiukiang and Wuchang. I spotted the move early and I'm sending 2 divisions. If at they both arrive before he gets both of his units there, it could be a good thing for me. It would be nice to trash a good Corps to start things off. I'm bombing to slow progress now.

I am positioning behind the scenes to extricate the division from Hangchow and the Rgt from Shaohing to move them toward Wenchow. I should be able to beat his unit moving that direction by continuing to bomb it and getting the new garrisons there fast. A few days and my units will be able to move out. His unit is moving across from one road system to another, so might take two weeks or more.

He looks to be surrounding Nanchang as well. Not sure if he is actually thinking of attacking it. It starts with two brigades and level 4 forts, plus a division in Kiukiang one hex away. There is no way he can take that base once there is 1000AV in it at this stage of the game. Especially once the bombing begins, as it's a clear hex.

I'll also send the Anking based 114th division toward Chusien. Clearing the South is a big priority and could mean a much more smooth campaign here.



Hey Obvert!

I'm enjoying this AAR greatly!

Just one piece of advice from a mid-grade player, it seems like your opponent is reading you like a book. Now he's being aggressive in China and you are reacting to him. This only strengthens his ability to read you. My advice is play YOUR game. Focus on the things that matter, i.e. industry, resources, Changsha. One of my opponents likens China to the game Othello. I refer to China as hearding cats. It can get messy, so focus on keeping your supply lines open and stick to the objectives. In other areas of the Pacific you are going to have to pull some suprises and throw him off his game. Personally I wouldn't do any historical landings lol

My 2 cents!

Cheers!!!

PS Long Live The Queen!

_____________________________

"If you can't take a joke, don't start a war."
Tail gunner, Enola Gay


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 137
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/4/2012 8:57:38 AM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


Posts: 2699
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline
Never reinforce China with unrestricted units in the opening stages of the game unless you think you can achieve something magical. China is a black hole that will suck in those AVs for no apparent gain. 2 divisions would bring 800 AV to some battlefield in China where a normal Chinese defensive stack consists of anything between 1-2k AV. So you bring your divisions to Wenchow and capture the place in two weeks instead of in two months. What have you gained? What have you lost? Removing 2 divisions from the SRA means delays at Singapore, Java, Clark. For what exactly? An earlier capture of a rather insignificant base in China?

This game is about oil. That means Palembang and after that the sea-lanes between Palembang and Japan. AFTER that, you can consider other targets. Like China or India.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Ddog)
Post #: 138
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/4/2012 10:32:09 AM   
obvert


Posts: 6957
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ddog

Hey Obvert!

I'm enjoying this AAR greatly!

Just one piece of advice from a mid-grade player, it seems like your opponent is reading you like a book. Now he's being aggressive in China and you are reacting to him. This only strengthens his ability to read you. My advice is play YOUR game. Focus on the things that matter, i.e. industry, resources, Changsha. One of my opponents likens China to the game Othello. I refer to China as hearding cats. It can get messy, so focus on keeping your supply lines open and stick to the objectives. In other areas of the Pacific you are going to have to pull some suprises and throw him off his game. Personally I wouldn't do any historical landings lol

My 2 cents!

Cheers!!!

PS Long Live The Queen!


Welcome Ddog. Thanks for dropping in.

Yes, this is an adventure that began with Torsten reading my version of the story. I'll have to live with that. As a few others have pointed out, it might be interesting to get him more confident in his ability to do just that. This doesn't necessarily strengthen his ability to read future moves, but it does make him believe more that he can.

I'll post a screen shot later of China and update to the current turn. I do have a long term plan there. In the short term I'm not interested in Chinese units stepping on an important supply line and attempting to completely surround a vital base. So I will react to that particular move. Especially where I think I can get an advantage early but where I'll be in trouble later if that unit sits and builds 2-3 forts in the next few months in a wooded hex. They are good roads so I should have the advantage early.

This is all an experiment and a blend of what I want to do as a player vs what he'd like to do. We'll both have to react to each other. If he wants to be aggressive in China, I can't stop him from doing that, but I can make that a poor strategic choice by exposing the flaws in such a strategy. To do that, I have to react, but with a larger, more strategic picture still in mind.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

Never reinforce China with unrestricted units in the opening stages of the game unless you think you can achieve something magical. China is a black hole that will suck in those AVs for no apparent gain. 2 divisions would bring 800 AV to some battlefield in China where a normal Chinese defensive stack consists of anything between 1-2k AV. So you bring your divisions to Wenchow and capture the place in two weeks instead of in two months. What have you gained? What have you lost? Removing 2 divisions from the SRA means delays at Singapore, Java, Clark. For what exactly? An earlier capture of a rather insignificant base in China?

This game is about oil. That means Palembang and after that the sea-lanes between Palembang and Japan. AFTER that, you can consider other targets. Like China or India.


This is where the creative risk is being taking for a larger strategic gain right now. It may backfire, but it may be just fine. It depends on what I can get in the next few weeks. Looking at the opening units in Wenchow, there is only one Corps plus a base force and an engineer unit. Torsten is trying to reinforce, but his troops are a full two weeks away, maybe more if I bomb heavily. I will have another division and a Rgt on the way in the next few days.

So if I can pick this up quickly, it's a huge boon to the Chinese campaign for not much (if any) loss of speed in the SRA. I still have to herd the British into Singers and then get those divisions put together and rested, and I can't invade Java just yet!

So this is a 3 weeks max experiment based on a thought from SqzMyLemon. If the base doesn't go down quickly, the Chinese units will be ready and waiting to continue the attack and capture the base as the unrestricted units are brought to Malaya.

During my other current game I brought all available troops to Singapore and got the base on February 1. The 3 weeks here, then a move to Malaya, getting these troops there by mid-January, should be on schedule.

< Message edited by obvert -- 6/4/2012 11:12:03 AM >

(in reply to Panzerjaeger Hortlund)
Post #: 139
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/4/2012 11:11:18 AM   
obvert


Posts: 6957
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
12 December 1941
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

A lot more small ships slaughtered, some questions answered at Wake, and one BIG miss.

subs: I-123 camping near the entrance to the Sulu Sea hits xAK Fatshan.

I knew I heard a BOOM somewhere during the replay!

SS KXV, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

I-157 makes me very unhappy today. This is what popped up in her periscope near Soerabaja!

Still very good intel and all, but a torp hitting there would have made a lot of things a lot more simple.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Soerabaja at 57,103

Japanese Ships
SS I-157

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales
DD Thracian

SS I-157 launches 6 torpedoes at BB Prince of Wales
I-157 bottoming out ....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The second prize trophy wasn't nearly as big and shiny.

xAP Rochambeau, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

PI: B-17s hit Pescadores. Dropped a 500 pounder on an AKL. Lost a bomber to flak.

Thinking of paradropping Malabalay on Mindanao. I have to see if anything starts there. I hate that mountain hex. Takes so much time to get to and reduce. Two para units could take out a small PA battalion if that is all that is there. Anyone know off hand?

DEI: Near Porto Princessa a lone TB is gunned down by a large cruiser force. It takes 4 engagements to actually hit the ship though. Plucky little guy.

The same force then met one of the small fast transport TFs moving now just North of Borneo.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Balabac at 69,81, Range 22,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Tsuta
DD Yomogi, Shell hits 1, on fire
TB Otori
TB Hiyodori, Shell hits 2
TB Hayabusa

Allied Ships
CA Houston, Shell hits 3
CL Java
CL De Ruyter
CL Tromp
DD Alden
DD Barker
DD Bulmer
DD Edsall

Japanese ground losses:
42 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled


Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 28,000 yards

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Later in the day the IJN met up with this Allied group, but neither side shot well in spite of good daylight conditions.

There are now BBs to the East of the Macassar strait, and depending on where this force retreats to resupply, it could be in for a difficult day. If it heads to the PI, I will have to scramble to further support the landings at Vigan and Appari.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Balabac at 69,81, Range 19,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Haguro
CA Nachi, Shell hits 2
DD Kuroshio
DD Oyashio
DD Hatsukaze, Shell hits 1
DD Natsushio

Allied Ships
CA Houston, Shell hits 1
CL Java
CL De Ruyter
CL Tromp
DD Alden, Shell hits 2
DD Barker, Shell hits 1
DD Bulmer, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Edsall


Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 28,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 21,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 21,000 yards
Range closes to 19,000 yards...
CA Houston engages CA Nachi at 19,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Pacific: The xAKLs heading to Yokohama to refit didn't make it. Vindicator's flying from somewhere, most likely Wake itself, hit the ships. If the CV s out here it's hanging back and these were the only planes that could get in range, but they are using 1000lb bombers, so they must be flying within normal attack range. Makes me think they're on the island. Two ships were sighted here as well, but gone after the replay.

The invasion is off for now. I'll recon (as best I can with Nells) and see what is on the base, then decide how to proceed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Wake Island at 136,96

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 12 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes


Allied aircraft
SB2U-3 Vindicator x 11


Allied aircraft losses
SB2U-3 Vindicator: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
xAKL Shonan Maru #8, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Uji Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire


Aircraft Attacking:
1 x SB2U-3 Vindicator releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
6 x SB2U-3 Vindicator releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SB2U-3 Vindicator releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


China: Hong Kong looks about to go. The forts dropped again, and our units aren't too fatigued yet. Same again tomorrow.

More on the rest of China in another post, with a map.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Hong Kong (77,61)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 24035 troops, 337 guns, 218 vehicles, Assault Value = 697

Defending force 6158 troops, 123 guns, 80 vehicles, Assault Value = 172

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 481

Allied adjusted defense: 233

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
428 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 44 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled


Allied ground losses:
603 casualties reported
Squads: 42 destroyed, 29 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 18 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Guns lost 12 (5 destroyed, 7 disabled)
Vehicles lost 6 (1 destroyed, 5 disabled)


Assaulting units:
1st Ind.Inf.Group
66th Infantry Regiment
38th Division
19th Ind. Engineer Regiment
20th Ind. Engineer Regiment
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
5th RF Gun Battalion
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd RF Gun Battalion
2nd Mortar Battalion
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion

Defending units:
Winnipeg Grenadiers Battalion
Rifles of Canada Battalion
1st Middlesex Battalion
Kowloon Brigade
102nd RN Base Force
Hong Kong Fortress

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Kasasagi, lost today to Allied cruisers.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 6/4/2012 11:14:50 AM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 140
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/4/2012 11:58:00 AM   
obvert


Posts: 6957
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
13 December 1941
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Whether this day turns out lucky or not will be decided much later.

subs: The British DDs are still hunting near Toboali. I-154 took one non-direct hit from Jupiter today.

Pacific: Kaveing was invaded by fast transport today. The 4 CA 4 DD are there as well. Trying to get a bit in before the CVs show up.

There is a serious possibility that he could shut me out of Rabaul in this game. I want Mavis here or as far South as possible to see if something is coming so I at least have a chance to get historical territory.

Either my Nells suck or there are no planes at Wake. The DL is only 3 today. I hate not having eyes. One more day of it to see for sure.

DEI: A very inconclusive battle to start the night phase with some of the Allied cruisers meeting our inept SCTF that doesn't seem to want to fight. They are going back to the barn.

Interesting this group split. I wonder if some of the DDs were injured or just out of ammo?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Balabac at 69,84, Range 9,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Maya
CA Ashigara
CL Kuma, Shell hits 1
DD Asakaze
DD Matsukaze

Allied Ships
CL Java, Shell hits 1
CL De Ruyter
CL Tromp
DD Edsall


Reduced sighting due to 28% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 28% moonlight: 10,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 9,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 9,000 yards
de Meester, J.B. crosses the 'T'
CL Tromp engages CL Kuma at 9,000 yards
CA Maya engages CL Tromp at 9,000 yards
CL Kuma engages CL Java at 9,000 yards
DD Edsall engages DD Matsukaze at 9,000 yards
DD Asakaze engages DD Edsall at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 10,000 yards
CA Maya engages CL Tromp at 10,000 yards
CL De Ruyter engages CL Kuma at 10,000 yards
CL Kuma engages CL Java at 10,000 yards
DD Edsall engages DD Matsukaze at 10,000 yards
DD Edsall engages DD Asakaze at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CL Tromp at 9,000 yards
CA Maya engages CL De Ruyter at 9,000 yards
CL Kuma engages CL Tromp at 9,000 yards
DD Edsall engages DD Matsukaze at 9,000 yards
CL Tromp engages CA Ashigara at 9,000 yards
CL Kuma engages CL De Ruyter at 9,000 yards
CL Java engages CA Maya at 9,000 yards
DD Matsukaze engages DD Edsall at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CL Tromp at 11,000 yards
CA Maya engages CL De Ruyter at 11,000 yards
CL Java engages CL Kuma at 11,000 yards
DD Edsall engages DD Matsukaze at 11,000 yards
DD Asakaze engages DD Edsall at 11,000 yards
Task forces break off...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Talaud-eilanden was invaded with a AF Coy. It will provide more search. After a few Mindanao and Eastern Luzon invasions go, then I'll move into the Clelebes most likely.

China: Hong Kong falls! That was nice and fast. Now he's got two subs posted to hunt my minesweepers no doubt. I'll send two AMc over to get it started. ASW TFs will post just outside Hong Kong in case his subs are on 1 hex react.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Hong Kong (77,61)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 23892 troops, 337 guns, 218 vehicles, Assault Value = 673

Defending force 5571 troops, 116 guns, 78 vehicles, Assault Value = 128

Japanese adjusted assault: 502

Allied adjusted defense: 153

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Hong Kong !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
349 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 16 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled


Allied ground losses:
6052 casualties reported
Squads: 277 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 437 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 21 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 154 (154 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 92 (92 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 6


Assaulting units:
38th Division
66th Infantry Regiment
19th Ind. Engineer Regiment
1st Ind.Inf.Group
20th Ind. Engineer Regiment
5th RF Gun Battalion
2nd RF Gun Battalion
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
2nd Mortar Battalion
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion

Defending units:
Rifles of Canada Battalion
1st Middlesex Battalion
Winnipeg Grenadiers Battalion
Kowloon Brigade
102nd RN Base Force
Hong Kong Fortress

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I was wrong about the units at Wenchow. It's a base force, one biggish Corps, and an HQ. The 33rd division landed there today in what will be an interesting experiment. Another division is on the way. A screen shot will come to show what's happening here later.

Lucky 13th? We'll see.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Wenchow (89,58)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 9732 troops, 38 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 430

Defending force 12316 troops, 120 guns, 31 vehicles, Assault Value = 434

Assaulting units:
100th Chinese Corps
25th Group Army
14th Chinese Base Force

Defending units:
33rd Div /3

---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Malaya: Just South of Alor Star the stack of Rgts and tanks will take on what appears to be a rear guard action. Victoria Point will fall tomorrow. The ships there were indeed taking out the base force.

No other news.

PI: Sweeps were intended to go over Clark today, but weather shut us out. Maybe tomorrow. 67 fighters are listed there. I'm trying for one big sweep with LR CAP over Manila. We'll see if it goes.

Mindanao invasions loading at Babeldaob and supported by a BB SCTF.

B-17s today went for a city strike on Taihoku today, hitting Manpower!?! I wonder if he meant to hit oil? One bomber down to ops and this:
Manpower hits 3
Fires 2145

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 6/4/2012 12:02:08 PM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 141
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/4/2012 2:58:17 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 4773
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: online
Cool pictures! Where do you get them?

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 142
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/4/2012 3:11:48 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6957
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Cool pictures! Where do you get them?


I've been getting together a bit of a collection, just from the internet. I learn lot by finding out what the actual things looked like of pixel versions that I'm moving around. Photography is my job but also my main interest, so it all kind of spills over into everything else. The only tough part playing the Japanese side is that there are many fewer pics floating around. And almost none of cute 40's Japanese pin-up models, which is a real shame.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 143
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/4/2012 3:59:22 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 2862
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

This is where the creative risk is being taking for a larger strategic gain right now. It may backfire, but it may be just fine. It depends on what I can get in the next few weeks. Looking at the opening units in Wenchow, there is only one Corps plus a base force and an engineer unit. Torsten is trying to reinforce, but his troops are a full two weeks away, maybe more if I bomb heavily. I will have another division and a Rgt on the way in the next few days.

So if I can pick this up quickly, it's a huge boon to the Chinese campaign for not much (if any) loss of speed in the SRA. I still have to herd the British into Singers and then get those divisions put together and rested, and I can't invade Java just yet!

So this is a 3 weeks max experiment based on a thought from SqzMyLemon. If the base doesn't go down quickly, the Chinese units will be ready and waiting to continue the attack and capture the base as the unrestricted units are brought to Malaya.

During my other current game I brought all available troops to Singapore and got the base on February 1. The 3 weeks here, then a move to Malaya, getting these troops there by mid-January, should be on schedule.


Hi obvert,

I see you're getting some Flak for the Wenchow idea. Have you moved the BB's from the Home Islands yet? If you want to take Wenchow even faster, form a two BB and whatever other surface ships you like and base them at Takao. Then bombard Wenchow as often as you can. The disruption caused from two to three bombardments by battleships will be decisive. Launch a deliberate attack in conjuction with a final bombardment and I think Wenchow won't be a problem for long.

I also disagree that the two divisions will not be available for Singapore in time. By the time your troops have marched down the peninsula you'll have taken Mersing and you can land the divisions that much closer to Singapore. In the meantime, rather than schlepping it down to Singapore, they will deny a supply producing base to the Chinese. With Torsten's aggressive stance in China, denying any supply production and preventing him bogging you down seems worth the use of these two divisions in the short term to me.

Use a strong bombardment TF to hammer Wenchow a few times and see how long it holds. Not long I trust.

Again, just my thoughts.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 6/4/2012 4:22:30 PM >


_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 144
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/4/2012 4:37:50 PM   
Gräfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1143
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Cool pictures! Where do you get them?


I've been getting together a bit of a collection, just from the internet. I learn lot by finding out what the actual things looked like of pixel versions that I'm moving around. Photography is my job but also my main interest, so it all kind of spills over into everything else. The only tough part playing the Japanese side is that there are many fewer pics floating around. And almost none of cute 40's Japanese pin-up models, which is a real shame.





_____________________________



(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 145
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/4/2012 5:17:50 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6957
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
14 December 1941
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

At least one CV located the hard way and a further risk.

subs: I-123 hits xAK Bengalen, one of the last to leave the PI, and it burns. So fuel was the cargo.

I-162 hits xAK Silverbeech with two.

Pacific: CA Portland shows up and takes out another xAKL moving to the West of Wake toward the HI. The fast transport is sighted, and will move off to the North toward Marcus. Mostly because of another threat just pinpointed though.

The two AMCs from the Southern Pacific made their way to their deaths by moving between Johnston Island and the Marshalls.

This looks like one CV. It's close enough to get to Wake in time, and in fact nearly close enough to sprint toward the fast transport TF. I have no fighters in the area, but most of the ships have moved back to Truk. Both IJN fighter groups are on fast ships to Tokyo to upgrade. Claudes wouldn't ave helped anyway.

So no Wake invasion for now. Probably not for a while. But I'll keep my forces ready.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Wake Island at 145,96

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes


Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 4
F4F-3 Wildcat x 2
SBD-2 Dauntless x 15
SBD-3 Dauntless x 15


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AMC Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
AMC Hokoku Maru, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage


Aircraft Attacking:
15 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
7 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring AMC Aikoku Maru
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring AMC Hokoku Maru

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Shortlands was invaded by the 4 CA 4 DD TF used as a fast transport after it supported the Kaveign landing. I had the units pre-loaded from Truk. This makes me breathe a bit down here. At least I can get search in deep and see what is coming now.

Finschafen is also invaded on New Guinea.

DEI: Both Kuching and Singkawang were invaded by today. BBs are supporting Singkawang. Looks like there may be some PTs coming up to harass, but no Force Z yet. Tomorrow both bases should fall and search will move in plus some Zeros and Tojos.

Miri and Jesselton invasions are loading.

I also did find out that the captain of Ashigara is terrible, and had an aggression rating of 49! No wonder they were avoiding combat.

PI: PTs came to visit Vigan, but were repulsed this time.

China: Just seeing all of those transports sail past I thought, well, if I'm going to do it I may as well really do it.

Three and elements of a fourth division will al land and hope to take Wenchow. The other Corps got to the road much faster than it seems it should have, especially since it was bombed for 30 disabled infantry units last turn. My forces will catch it, but just before it arrives in Wenchow most likely. So I'm going all in for a few weeks here. See what happens. 1500 AV should be enough against 1 Corps of 400 AV, even in good terrain.

Elsewhere in China, the Central area is getting interesting. Torsten is surely not sitting back. I like that. Not sure what he's up to yet, but I have some ideas. At Kweilin 22 fighters moved in. AVG? I have to be careful and escort everything tomorrow, as well as sweeping Wenchow with Zeros from the passing mini-KB moving toward the DEI.

A screenshot if below.


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 6/4/2012 5:18:06 PM >

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 146
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/4/2012 6:10:18 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 4773
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: online
How long before you can sort out your airforce in China?

I think he is making a mistake by being agressive in China. There are not supply enough for it and all the Chinese forces are paper tigers. Lots of AV and no punch. Really looking forward to seeing this side of China!

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 147
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/4/2012 6:25:42 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 2862
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
Looks like the Chinese are attempting to isolate your entire position from Sinyang to Nanchang. I'd focus on keeping the Hankow to Anking route open as well as clearing the railway to Shanghai to allow reinforcements to Hankow via Anking. Don't neglect to use the river to get supply to Hankow and Wuchang. You can also reinforce Hankow with units bought out for use in China via the river if need be. I'd also move along the main road to Sinyang to reopen the eastern hexside behind that Chinese LCU. The Japanese, as you know, are vulnerable to a Chinese attack early, since you are not massed and have to get garrison requirements sorted out to free up more force for offensive operations. Don't panic. Keep your LOC's open and moving troops forward. Don't be afraid to abandon Nanchang or the base to the N.E. if you have to. I'd deny the Chinese any chance to maul you in detail, if it means a temporary withdrawal, so be it. Remember, everything the Chinese can take now is only temporary, once you get sorted out it's a different story.

I think a Chinese offensive against a good Japanese opponent is a mistake. Don't let reacting to Torsten's moves make you think you've lost control, you haven't. Japan's position at start in China isn't ideal and this is simply an early exploitation of that fact. Guard your LOC's, don't get LCU's trashed and move combat troops forward as you free them from garrison duty. Once you get your ducks in order, kick his butt! I think you know what you are doing and have the right idea how to counter, as you stated earlier.

With losing the three CV's, what is the limit of your expansion to be?

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 148
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/4/2012 6:42:55 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6957
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

How long before you can sort out your airforce in China?

I think he is making a mistake by being agressive in China. There are not supply enough for it and all the Chinese forces are paper tigers. Lots of AV and no punch. Really looking forward to seeing this side of China!


Three groups have Sally Ic now and are operational in China, as of last turn. There is another Sally unit operating from Formosa that will be needed in the PI soon. I will move over a few from Malaya to China, leaving about 100 bombers there to deal with Singapore. Gradually, as I have PPs, I will buy out 1E groups and upgrade to Sallys. It'll be about 2 weeks before I'm really set up to kick ass. For now I can pinpoint attack, but nothing wide ranging simultaneously.

I will focus on his threats now, then expand.

The fighters will need to be upgraded as well. Oscar Ic are coming on line quickly. One 12 plane groups is upgrading currently. Once all of the starting groups upgrade, I'll get some in from the Malaya side and use them in China as well.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 149
RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs Historiker (A) - 6/4/2012 7:07:06 PM   
obvert


Posts: 6957
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Looks like the Chinese are attempting to isolate your entire position from Sinyang to Nanchang. I'd focus on keeping the Hankow to Anking route open as well as clearing the railway to Shanghai to allow reinforcements to Hankow via Anking. Don't neglect to use the river to get supply to Hankow and Wuchang. You can also reinforce Hankow with units bought out for use in China via the river if need be. I'd also move along the main road to Sinyang to reopen the eastern hexside behind that Chinese LCU. The Japanese, as you know, are vulnerable to a Chinese attack early, since you are not massed and have to get garrison requirements sorted out to free up more force for offensive operations. Don't panic. Keep your LOC's open and moving troops forward. Don't be afraid to abandon Nanchang or the base to the N.E. if you have to. I'd deny the Chinese any chance to maul you in detail, if it means a temporary withdrawal, so be it. Remember, everything the Chinese can take now is only temporary, once you get sorted out it's a different story.

I think a Chinese offensive against a good Japanese opponent is a mistake. Don't let reacting to Torsten's moves make you think you've lost control, you haven't. Japan's position at start in China isn't ideal and this is simply an early exploitation of that fact. Guard your LOC's, don't get LCU's trashed and move combat troops forward as you free them from garrison duty. Once you get your ducks in order, kick his butt! I think you know what you are doing and have the right idea how to counter, as you stated earlier.

With losing the three CV's, what is the limit of your expansion to be?


Thanks Joseph. I agree. Lots of great advice. You can be my China guru if this Wenchow thing works out!

I think it's not best strategic play to attack for the Chinese right now, and I will try to take advantage of it if not sooner, then definitely later. I won't abandon bases though. If he really means to attack I'm all for that. Nanchang is in the clear, meaning I can bomb him to dust, and it's got level 4 forts. With 1000 AV sitting there, he's not getting it, period.

I do use the river a lot. Hankow is a great port in the interior. I've got supply destined to land there leaving the HI now.

As for maneuvering and getting garrisons sorted, it's coming along. It helps I did this fairly recently. He's also trying to contest the North. I'll post something on that in a bit. I'm dealing with that roughly, and he'll be knocked back soon with losses. That's the great advantage of the IJA in China. The forces have staying power even when they are in tough combat. The Chinese do not.

It looks like he's going for Sinyang too, which IS a vulnerable spot, but it's also good terrain. I have yet to see a successful Chinese attack in good terrain. We'll see how this one goes. If I get a few units torn up, I still feel the Chinese will get worse, plus use a lot of supply doing it.

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 150
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