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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

 
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/13/2019 7:06:54 PM   
Lowpe


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It has happened to me before. It has happened to Obvert before, albeit to a lesser extent than what I took.





< Message edited by Lowpe -- 6/13/2019 7:07:26 PM >

(in reply to uncivil_servant)
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/13/2019 7:32:48 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

It has happened to me before. It has happened to Obvert before, albeit to a lesser extent than what I took.



Well, it all feels the same when you can't field your CAP or add replacement airframes due to lack of supply.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/13/2019 7:49:30 PM   
Chickenboy


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Obvert,

As one of only a handful of PBEM players that have made it past July 1945, would you say that you see a difference in the effectiveness of nighttime bombing post ground-attack radar implementation? In other words, absent the questionable code inherent with night bombing uber-accuracy of ports and airfields, have you noticed even greater ability of the B-29s to hit tactical targets at night?

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/13/2019 8:42:39 PM   
HansBolter


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In my scenario 40 Ironman Nasty Ported to Babes, the AI has a huge air force guarding all strategic assets.

In mid '44 I started a night bombing campaign. By late '45 I have somewhere around 2000 B29s operational flying from three bases.

I have around 1200 B29-25s on Tinian, 400 or so B29B on Guam amd a mixture of about 400 B29-1s and B29Bs at Shanghai.

When I assign them a target I typically send every last one of them against it, rarely splitting targets.

On any given night about 60% stray due to night and I get ONE coordinated strike of about 100-120 bombers. The remainder trickle in in groups of 2-6.

Over the course of 16 months of strategic bombing I have run up a total of 39k victory points.

On any given night MAYBE about 400-500 bombers out of 2000 assigned actually fly a mission.

The point I am making here is that the game engine already severely limits the efficacy of night bombing.

_____________________________

Hans


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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/13/2019 8:55:58 PM   
Wuffer

 

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Excuse me please, but do we talk about night bombing in general (e.g. area bombing) or precision strikes against air fields and/or ports?

(in reply to HansBolter)
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/13/2019 11:10:20 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wuffer

Excuse me please, but do we talk about night bombing in general (e.g. area bombing) or precision strikes against air fields and/or ports?


Important clarification. Few doubt the efficacy of nighttime strategic bombing (e.g., targeting manpower and starting fires that coincidentally damage other fixtures in the hex), whether high or low altitude. The argument / HRs are based upon the efficacy and realism of nighttime precision strikes against airfields, ports and the like tactical targets and whether the game's rendition of them is reflected in reality or needs to be tempered with HRs.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 10:28:22 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

In my scenario 40 Ironman Nasty Ported to Babes, the AI has a huge air force guarding all strategic assets.

In mid '44 I started a night bombing campaign. By late '45 I have somewhere around 2000 B29s operational flying from three bases.

I have around 1200 B29-25s on Tinian, 400 or so B29B on Guam amd a mixture of about 400 B29-1s and B29Bs at Shanghai.

When I assign them a target I typically send every last one of them against it, rarely splitting targets.

On any given night about 60% stray due to night and I get ONE coordinated strike of about 100-120 bombers. The remainder trickle in in groups of 2-6.

Over the course of 16 months of strategic bombing I have run up a total of 39k victory points.

On any given night MAYBE about 400-500 bombers out of 2000 assigned actually fly a mission.

The point I am making here is that the game engine already severely limits the efficacy of night bombing.


As Andre mentioned, the only HR restriction is on airfield/port strikes. All Strat bombing is open game!! And you're totals are almost four times those of the Allied totals for the same period in this game. He's used the B-29s for a variety of tactical strikes and many vulnerable daylight strikes. I think Lowpe is basically saying that numbers like yours justify a sustained and persistent night bombing Strat campaign to thwart a tough daylight CAP concentrated in big industrial centers.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 10:30:17 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Obvert,

As one of only a handful of PBEM players that have made it past July 1945, would you say that you see a difference in the effectiveness of nighttime bombing post ground-attack radar implementation? In other words, absent the questionable code inherent with night bombing uber-accuracy of ports and airfields, have you noticed even greater ability of the B-29s to hit tactical targets at night?


Well, his recent tactical strikes have been very effective, but I've not noticed a demonstrable difference as far as I can recall. I'd have to look back a bit. Hard to measure as recent strikes are against little opposition a well on the fringes.

Something to be aware of though and watch for.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 3308
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 11:47:01 AM   
HansBolter


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Guess I haven't been paying close enough attention.

Thought your 50 plane restriction applied to all night bombing.

Can't understand why he isn't sending 2,000 B29s against a single strategic target at night, in the hope that 500-600 actually arrive on target.

Is your night CAP truly so effective as to make this an impossibly lopsided affair, or is that just CRs perception, which has caused him to not pursue the tactic?

Leaves one to wonder.

_____________________________

Hans


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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 12:48:51 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Guess I haven't been paying close enough attention.

Thought your 50 plane restriction applied to all night bombing.

Can't understand why he isn't sending 2,000 B29s against a single strategic target at night, in the hope that 500-600 actually arrive on target.

Is your night CAP truly so effective as to make this an impossibly lopsided affair, or is that just CRs perception, which has caused him to not pursue the tactic?

Leaves one to wonder.


Hans,

My opinion is that CR has been attracted to the use of his B-17/24/29s in non-strategic roles much more frequently than using them in a strategic role. How often has he used them to hit troops in cities or in the field versus a concerted effort to raze cities in a planned strategic bombing campaign? Based on Obvert's AAR (which I exclusively follow), I think I can count the number of nighttime strategic city attacks on one or two hands in the last 10 months of game time.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 1:10:13 PM   
HansBolter


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Well, I would guess some of the appeal in using them tactically is a result of an inability to use them strategically in the daytime, or at least a perception of an inability.

If an asset of that magnitude is sitting unused it plays on the mind of the player leading one to look for some effective use.

Given how critical strategically degrading Japan is to an Allied victory I'm surprised he hasn't put more effort into it.



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Hans


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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 1:14:20 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Given how critical strategically degrading Japan is to an Allied victory I'm surprised he hasn't put more effort into it.




I don't think a lot of PBEMs go that way...I think Japan is crushed militarily and seldom economically unless it is Japans own fault...i.e. they run the economy into the ground themselves. Of course there are exceptions.



(in reply to HansBolter)
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 1:15:06 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
I think Lowpe is basically saying that numbers like yours justify a sustained and persistent night bombing Strat campaign to thwart a tough daylight CAP concentrated in big industrial centers.


+1. Thanks.


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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 1:56:09 PM   
Mike Solli


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This is all very interesting stuff. I read only this AAR, so I really have no idea what CR is thinking or doing. Given the difficulty he is having in this game (thanks to you), some of the reasons for the seemingly inefficient use of the B-29s may be in his mind. If he believes he can't use the B-29s in a historical way, then he may be grasping at straws as Hans said. Using them in penny packets may be what he thinks is his only way to use them effectively. I'd have to agree that massive daylight B-29 raids on industry would be difficult for you to counter over time. How many B-29s are in the Allied inventory by this point in the war anyway?

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Post #: 3314
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 2:48:52 PM   
Lowpe


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Mike,

Once upon a time I had a spreadsheet of all Allied plane reinforcements and production by month. Haven't looked at it in years...A quick look and I can't find it.

Perhaps I got it from Koniu or from his AAR?



< Message edited by Lowpe -- 6/14/2019 2:53:09 PM >

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 3:04:44 PM   
Wuffer

 

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This was all obvious since the invasion of Sakhalin. Imagine D-Day without the strategic campaign first. Perhaps the Allies' previous experience was that the Empire's economy will crash by it's own anyway? :-(

The forced analogies of the civil war probably did not allways help so much, too (keep them, please, don't get me wrong, know your history, but have a look at the Prussian campaigns too). And read Sun Tsu again.
You will never ever solve a strategic problem with only tactical measures.

Your strategical target in this game (it's never a simulation, but allways an abstraction) is to kill the war machine, you could do so by burning the oil wells, conquering them, disrupt the shipping lanes or even by creating another bottleneck in the Home Islands, e.g. a concentrated effort against engines or a/c factories. Palembeng is the most important hex, not Tokyo.

But let us keep in mind that this's a picked up one. And that I'm talking too much. :-))

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 3:38:15 PM   
HansBolter


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I'm at November 24th, 1945 in my AI game.

My B29 losses have been mostly to AA, with a small number falling to interceptors.

My strategic campaign started in September of '44, so it has run for 14 months.

I have bombed only at night except for one very disappointing daytime atomic bomb attack on Tokyo.

I have well over 2,000 operational B29s.

Squadrons are STILL arriving from Europe.

Checked last night and strategic bombing victory points are at 42k.

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Hans


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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 3:46:23 PM   
Bif1961


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In Europe as in the Pacific strategic bombing was best used against fuel/oil production targets. Both the Germans and Japanese were able to produce weapons of war almost until the end but couldn't fuel them to employ them. The Axis had more planes than pilots and couldn't train the new pilots they did have for lack of fuel. The Yamato was sent on a one way journey, partly because of lack of fuel and many other combat vessels were left in port for lack of fuel. Subs were important in the Pacific as a critical strategic weapon and not in Europe by the Allies. Hence the mention that Palembang is more important than Tokyo when it comes to strategic value. However, there are a lot of VPs to be harvested via strategic bombing of Japanese cities.

< Message edited by Bif1961 -- 6/14/2019 3:49:34 PM >

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 5:39:08 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I'm at November 24th, 1945 in my AI game.

My B29 losses have been mostly to AA, with a small number falling to interceptors.

My strategic campaign started in September of '44, so it has run for 14 months.

I have bombed only at night except for one very disappointing daytime atomic bomb attack on Tokyo.

I have well over 2,000 operational B29s.

Squadrons are STILL arriving from Europe.

Checked last night and strategic bombing victory points are at 42k.


Even though it is Ironman Nasty, I don't think the night fighters have been beefed up any.

Does the AI have stiff NF CAP over Tokyo and Osaka? My guess is not, or you would of lost more planes.

(in reply to HansBolter)
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 6:21:27 PM   
HansBolter


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The AIs night cap is substantial, but obviously not overwhelming.
Since it is an Ironman game I have faced all kinds of advanced air frames.

My B29s down nearly as many interceptors as they take losses.

I stayed away from the huge concentration at Tokyo, starting my campaign against Nagasaki, moving on to Hiroshima and then Osaka.
I have since taken Nagasaki, have reduced forts in Hiroshima to 3 and am almost at the gates of Osaka, so the night strategic bombing campaign will be moving to Tokyo soon.

Flak has taken more than interceptors and I also obviously haven't suffered the kind of losses CR has so his total number of usable air frames must be lower than mine.

This game is also a few months behind mine, so I would venture to guess he likely has somewhere around 1300-1500 B29s available.



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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 6:59:16 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Well, I would guess some of the appeal in using them tactically is a result of an inability to use them strategically in the daytime, or at least a perception of an inability.


Really? I honestly don't think so. I think he is enamored with tactical use of these airframes and has 'forgotten' or been dissuaded from a meaningful strategic bombing campaign because of this competing application, not due to daylight resistance to strategic bombing.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 7:08:14 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wuffer
Palembeng is the most important hex, not Tokyo.

But let us keep in mind that this's a picked up one. And that I'm talking too much. :-))



I understand the spirit of your note, but find fault with this analogy. Palembang is the most important hex...until it's not. If a Japanese player is still in the act of pulling fuel and oil from Palembang, then it is useful-perhaps ultimately useful. If they cannot import fuel and oil from Palembang, then it ceases to be the most important hex in the game thereafter.

Which is it? It depends on the gameplay and the timing of the game. Currently, it's probably a very important hex-because Obvert is still-almost inexplicably-able to import fuel and oil from it. But when the Allied cordon is complete-perhaps soon, then there will be limited to no value for the Japanese any longer. And then Tokyo / Osaka will reclaim the throne.

Also, with all the engine and airframe production factories, HI, LI and so forth in Tokyo, it's conclusive destruction would be catastrophic to the Japanese war effort at this stage. Maybe moreso than Palembang's relevance as we go into late 1945-early 1946.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 8:17:44 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wuffer
Palembeng is the most important hex, not Tokyo.

But let us keep in mind that this's a picked up one. And that I'm talking too much. :-))



I understand the spirit of your note, but find fault with this analogy. Palembang is the most important hex...until it's not. If a Japanese player is still in the act of pulling fuel and oil from Palembang, then it is useful-perhaps ultimately useful. If they cannot import fuel and oil from Palembang, then it ceases to be the most important hex in the game thereafter.

Which is it? It depends on the gameplay and the timing of the game. Currently, it's probably a very important hex-because Obvert is still-almost inexplicably-able to import fuel and oil from it. But when the Allied cordon is complete-perhaps soon, then there will be limited to no value for the Japanese any longer. And then Tokyo / Osaka will reclaim the throne.

Also, with all the engine and airframe production factories, HI, LI and so forth in Tokyo, it's conclusive destruction would be catastrophic to the Japanese war effort at this stage. Maybe moreso than Palembang's relevance as we go into late 1945-early 1946.


My guess about why he hasn't run strikes on Tokyo and Osaka is a perception that they'e very well defended. The lack of night strikes though I can't explain.

His recon would have shown the number guns there, and he would have probably concluded that all of those are AA. They are, actually.A lot of the fighter trainers are there in both as well, and that would look like a massive CAP. He hasn't even swept either to see what the CAP looks like in the 14 months he's been in range.

My thinking is he will hit them both with nukes.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 8:58:04 PM   
obvert


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August 6, 1945


On the 6th the Allies tried another (good) small tactical night strike on Palembang. Only 16 hit but they take out 20+ airframes on the ground (in thunderstorms).

During the day phase the sweeps are still thwarted yb the strong day CAP. I might get a small NF unit in here as this is still an important base, the only real defensive location in the DEI I might be able to maintain for a while longer.

The Allies also send a tank unit across into Singers. It's nearly obliterated, but in case he's coming with the rest tomorrow I won't strike back.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 6, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 72 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 2 destroyed on ground
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-102b Randy: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed on ground


Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 2 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 4 destroyed on ground
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-83: 4 destroyed on ground
H8K2-L Emily: 1 destroyed on ground


Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 damaged

Airbase hits 4
Runway hits 15

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 49 NM, estimated altitude 46,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 7
Ki-83 x 13
Ki-84r Frank x 18
Ki-102b Randy x 14

Allied aircraft
Thunderbolt II x 12

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Thunderbolt II: 5 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 30 NM, estimated altitude 46,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 7
Ki-83 x 13
Ki-84r Frank x 16
Ki-102b Randy x 14

Allied aircraft
Thunderbolt II x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Thunderbolt II: 3 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Palembang , at 48,91

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 47 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 7
Ki-83 x 13
Ki-84r Frank x 12
Ki-102b Randy x 12

Allied aircraft
Corsair IV x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-102b Randy: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
Corsair IV: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Singapore (50,84)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 1680 troops, 0 guns, 139 vehicles, Assault Value = 70

Defending force 111584 troops, 811 guns, 704 vehicles, Assault Value = 2366

Allied adjusted assault: 0

Japanese adjusted defense: 12947

Allied assault odds: 1 to 99 (fort level 6)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-), disruption(-), supply(-)

Japanese ground losses:
76 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled

Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 100 (74 destroyed, 26 disabled)

Assaulting units:
2nd USMC Tank Battalion

Defending units:
29th Ind.Mixed Brigade
4th Tank Regiment
49th Tank Battalion
Yokosuka 4th SNLF /2
3rd INA Azad Regiment
65th Naval Guard Unit
2nd INA Gandhi Regiment
44th Naval Guard Unit
27th Ind.Mixed Brigade
1st INA Subhas Regiment
4th Raiding Regiment
80th Garrison Battalion
4th INA Nehru Regiment
65th Brigade
Yokosuka 3rd SNLF
33rd Division
26th Tank Regiment
Sasebo 8th SNLF
7th Indpt SNLF Coy /1
21st Ind.Mixed Brigade
2nd Amphibious Brigade
120th Div /2
4th Ind.Mixed Regiment
2nd South Seas Det.
Kure 3rd SNLF
2nd Raiding Rgt /1
1st RF Gun Battalion
3rd Mortar Battalion
12th Base Force
17th JAAF AF Bn
87th JAAF AF Bn
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
4th Air Division
29th Army
89th JAAF AF Bn
9th Ind. Engineer Regiment
3rd Air Division
5th Field AF Construction Battalion
18th Area Army
25th Army
201st JAAF AF Bn
9th Air Division
40th JAAF AF Bn
5th INA Regiment
43rd Const Co
Southern Fleet
30th JAAF AF Bn
93rd JAAF AF Bn
13th Ind.Hvy.Art. Regiment
28th JAAF AF Bn
105th JAAF AF Bn
41st JAAF AF Bn
91st JAAF AF Bn
Maraisha JNAF Base Force
80th JAAF AF Bn
111th Naval Construction Battalion
94th JAAF AF Bn
23rd JAAF AF Bn /1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Attachment (1)

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3324
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 9:01:13 PM   
obvert


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August 7, 1945


This turn is pertinent to the night bombing discussion. The Allies launch a medium sized night strike on Kagoshima. It's without NF since it's a smaller industrial centre and my bleeding night CAP didn't make it over. The Allies only have 40 B-29s actually strike, but those get 50k+ fires going. A few resource points are taken off by day but more will go soon as fires burn.

There are some smaller bases with no night CAP cover in the Home Islands. I do this for two reasons;

1. I don't like either the VP loss ratio in using day fighters on night CAP and I don't like the pilot exp gain for his bomber pilots if I do. They do shoot down loads of Nf as well, but a much smaller ratio to bombers shot down.

2.I do want to max Nf protection of bases with huge resource, HI, LI and airframe production centers.

I've decided to set more at Nagasaki and surrounding bases on a bleed and increased range for others around the HI now as well. I'll also be bringing back most of the fighters in China as I can't do much there with supply dwindling.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 6, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Air attack on Kagoshima , at 102,60

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 70 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 21 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 14

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 2 damaged

Manpower hits 21
Fires 10700


Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 8000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Kagoshima , at 102,60

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 46 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 6

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 2 damaged

Manpower hits 5
Fires 50825


Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 8000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Babeldaob at 91,96, Range 18,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
PB Chitose Maru, Shell hits 1, on fire
PB Eifuku Maru
PB Fukui Maru, Shell hits 2, heavy fires
PB Ikuta Maru, Shell hits 1
PB Shinko Maru, Shell hits 4
PB Shinkyo Maru, Shell hits 15, heavy fires, heavy damage
PB Sansei Maru, Shell hits 6, heavy fires
xAKL Amakasu Maru, Shell hits 1
xAKL Nittatsu Maru, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAKL Shinrei Maru, Shell hits 3, on fire
xAKL Hinode Maru, Shell hits 1, on fire
xAKL Kennichi Maru, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
TK Okuni Maru
xAKL Yanagigawa
xAKL Misaki Maru, Shell hits 4, on fire
TK Shinetsu Maru, Shell hits 21, and is sunk

xAKL Fukuyo Maru
SC Ch 63, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
DD Wizard, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Wrangler

Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 28,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Still hanging on with the industry. Supply is going down, but slowly.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3325
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 9:03:57 PM   
Wuffer

 

Posts: 370
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline
@ Andre

I agree! Completely. :-)

In other news, I still remember when my friend came back with a very special book from then Eastern Berlin, A. Suetin's 'Chess Strategy for Advanced' (translated, no clue if it's available in english). One of this books that really could change a life, written by a true soviet pro trainer in a no-nonsense style.
Our school teachers, allthough very excited about chess, were disregarding this as to complicated for us fourteen years old... What little did they know! It didn't take long however, and we found it harder and harder keeping respect for them, not only on the board, but in real life as well. (Allthough nowadays I think 'operational manoeuvre' is a better term instead of 'chess strategy')

< Message edited by Wuffer -- 6/14/2019 9:09:26 PM >

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 3326
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 9:17:33 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 25083
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
My thinking is he will hit them both with nukes.


I think the question came up here several months ago, but I don't recall if there was a finite answer. Does CAP / can CAP intercept a nuclear strike? That would be an unwelcome discovery if that's the case.

_____________________________


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3327
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/14/2019 9:21:16 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 25083
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
The Allies also send a tank unit across into Singers.


Obvert,

How have you found the various RF gun companies / battalions in the anti-armor defensive role? It seems to me that Singapore would benefit from such a defensive unit (or two or three...) with the imminent threat of an armor attack.

_____________________________


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3328
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/15/2019 6:11:00 AM   
obvert


Posts: 12737
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
The Allies also send a tank unit across into Singers.


Obvert,

How have you found the various RF gun companies / battalions in the anti-armor defensive role? It seems to me that Singapore would benefit from such a defensive unit (or two or three...) with the imminent threat of an armor attack.


They've been great so far in Burma and the recent battle at Nanning. At Singers though I just have the embedded 47m guns, and there is no hope of getting more in.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 3329
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 6/16/2019 12:53:41 AM   
Naskra

 

Posts: 327
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline
The A-bomber always gets through:

Morning Air attack on Tokyo , at 114,60

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 77 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7
A6M5 Zero x 11
A7M2 Sam x 19
A7M3-J Sam x 94
J2M5 Jack x 4
J7W1 Shinden x 5
N1K1 Rex x 57
N1K5-J George x 36
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 6
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 12
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 12
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 19
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 9
Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 21
Ki-79a Nate x 28
Ki-84a Frank x 11
Ki-84b Frank x 5
Ki-94-II x 48
Ki-95 x 12
Ki-100-II Tony x 13
Ki-119 x 74
Ki-201 Karyu x 4
BF109 T-2 x 24

Allied aircraft
B-29B Superfort x 1

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-29B Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak

ATOMIC BOMB hits 1

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3330
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