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RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page.

 
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RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/2/2012 1:42:05 AM   
notenome

 

Posts: 598
Joined: 12/28/2009
Status: offline 		Here's Rostov. Axis are about 20-25 hexes from the railhead. No way they can do a build up right? Defenses aren't great but there's thing happenig in Moscow right now, or so I hear.




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Post #: 121
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/2/2012 2:03:45 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 5748
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: offline 		Heh, he's going to have to decide between trapping Bryansk Front or pushing past the Oka, I don't believe he can do both at once now.

You keep springing Bryansk Front out of his traps, and with mud thrown in, that's like 3 wasted turns for him, which has kind of neutered his southern pincer. (The cavalry raid also helped.) I'm liking your chances by Moscow more now.

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Post #: 122
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/2/2012 5:47:10 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
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From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		In my experience, when you have Guards divisions before mud, that is a pretty good indicator you are winning!

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Post #: 123
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/3/2012 6:23:15 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 1926
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		It's o.k. to use a few APs before the period of building cav/tank corps, as long as you are near 500 in the pool; each turn adds 50 to the pool but you max out at 500 filled up. There is no overflow that builds up.

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Post #: 124
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/4/2012 7:03:41 PM   
notenome

 

Posts: 598
Joined: 12/28/2009
Status: offline 		Moscow held, Rostov too. Picture of the entire front coming. It was a tense weekend waiting for 821's turn.

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Post #: 125
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/4/2012 8:07:09 PM   
notenome

 

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Status: offline 		Turn 17th.

We survived. Moscow and Rostov held and now (hopefully) a much needed spell of mud will cover the front. I don't plan on sending reinforcements to the Moscow area for the first time in... ever? We need to start patching up the lines and resolving the small scale crisis in Voronezh, where a panzer division has lodged up besides the city, making evacuation impossible. Good news is I can isolate the panzers, and hopefully break the Bryansk pocket. Again.

We've reached two casualty milestones: 3 million soviet casualties (boo) and less than 1000 operational Axis tanks (yay). I had predicted 3.5 million Soviet casualties by mud, so I guess that's good. Sort of.

EDIT: The brave defenders of Sevastopol also held against strong Axis attacks. I think I can hold that city. Or at least I hope so.




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< Message edited by notenome -- 6/4/2012 8:09:15 PM >

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Post #: 126
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/4/2012 8:42:48 PM   
notenome

 

Posts: 598
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Status: offline 		From Russia with love, the Bryansk pocket is cracked open. 7 air bombardments and 3 preliminary assaults before the main attack. Downsize is I wrecked one of my few remaining tank divisions. With mud incoming, I have no clue what's going to be the fate of these troops.




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Post #: 127
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/4/2012 10:44:50 PM   
notenome

 

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Status: offline 		Any suggestions on what my priorities should be for the Moscow evac? I evacuated the Li-2 transports last turn, wondering what I should evac this turn.

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Post #: 128
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/4/2012 11:00:34 PM   
Flaviusx


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Status: offline 		Plane factories first, then armaments. Don't be afraid to lowball the aircraft evacuations if your railcap is stretched, as long as a single factory gets out, that's good enough. Ignore the Mig factories, those cease to operate at the end of the year. Get the bombers out (and you got the Li2 out already.) Something like half your bomber production is tied up in Moscow.

I would consider in this case also getting some HI out of there, but that's a last priority item.

You did a great job with Bryansk Front. That should have been locked down several turns ago, and you somehow made him waste an entire month (granted one of those turns was mud) and he still hasn't gotten it under control. With mud arriving and it sitting astride his supply lines, he's got serious problems. His southern pincer will not be fully operational going into snow. I doubt that his single pincer in the north can finish the job by itself. You may well have saved Moscow in these last few turns. I think the Axis got greedy here and tried to do too much at once with inadequate forces. That panzer corps by Voronezh would have been better used in pocketing Bryansk Front proper.



< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 6/4/2012 11:13:35 PM >

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Post #: 129
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/4/2012 11:05:04 PM   
notenome

 

Posts: 598
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Status: offline 		From your mouth to God, err.. I mean Lenin's ears comrade Flaviusx. Here's an assortment of big picture screens all glued into one.




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Post #: 130
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/4/2012 11:09:42 PM   
notenome

 

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Status: offline 		End of turn screenshots. This turn was a land grab, with mud incoming a pushed units forward to force the Axis to either attack in mud or attack or sit by and wait as I build forts for 4 turns.

Moscow Front




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Post #: 131
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/4/2012 11:12:27 PM   
gingerbread


Posts: 1167
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Lund, Sweden
Status: offline 		In order

All AC fact, exc Mig & U-2VS but including those not yet producing, e.g Li-2VP in Khimki
T-40 fact (at least 1 point if short on rail - this is also valid for the AC fact that will not be producing until much later)
ARM
HI
vehicles

(in reply to notenome)
Post #: 132
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/4/2012 11:16:04 PM   
notenome

 

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Status: offline 		The Tula-Orel pocket. A lot of reinforcements are being fed into the area. I'm determined to make a fight out of this, and with mud coming, hopefully some axis divisions will become isolated. That's the plan, keep the pocket open, protect Voronezh long enough to evacuate the factories.




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Post #: 133
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/4/2012 11:20:02 PM   
notenome

 

Posts: 598
Joined: 12/28/2009
Status: offline 		The South, Rostov held out against Axis attacks last turn. To the east we cross the river and hug the panzers, not giving terrain for free during the mud.




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Post #: 134
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/5/2012 6:46:59 AM   
Tarhunnas


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From: Hex X37, Y15
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

In order

All AC fact, exc Mig & U-2VS but including those not yet producing, e.g Li-2VP in Khimki
T-40 fact (at least 1 point if short on rail - this is also valid for the AC fact that will not be producing until much later)
ARM
HI
vehicles


I would put veichles before HI. Vechles are important for the counteroffensive in 42-43.

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Post #: 135
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/5/2012 6:49:47 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		I would say Moscow is not entirely safe. If the Axis really puts all he has into it, he could take it during snow. I would certainly try if I was playing Axis here. But then I am an inveterate offensive player... 

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 136
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/5/2012 10:35:32 AM   
gingerbread


Posts: 1167
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Lund, Sweden
Status: offline 		I also consider vehicles important - that's why I like to see that notenome is placing most of his airbases on rail hexes as this saves on damaged.

But the 20 (10+5+5) vehicle factories in Moscow will produce around 5000 vehicles in total during '42, roughly one '43 turn's worth of Lend Lease (4500), so I don't think it's cost effective to evacuate vehicle factories - I'd even leave the Kharkov one in favour of moving small ARM.

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Post #: 137
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/5/2012 12:02:30 PM   
Tarhunnas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gingerbread
But the 20 (10+5+5) vehicle factories in Moscow will produce around 5000 vehicles in total during '42, roughly one '43 turn's worth of Lend Lease (4500), so I don't think it's cost effective to evacuate vehicle factories - I'd even leave the Kharkov one in favour of moving small ARM.


That is a very good point!

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Post #: 138
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/5/2012 3:19:22 PM   
notenome

 

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Status: offline 		Just got a pm from 821, and in his words apparently all Axis units between Voroshlograd and Tula woke up isolated on Turn 18. Understandably 821 is quite frustrated and may resign. I have encouraged him to keep playing (I really want to get a game into 42...) but I'll respect his decision if he so chooses. I have invited him to post here, hopefully he will.

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Post #: 139
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/5/2012 3:34:15 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
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From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		But that is probably just the mud effects, that is nothing to worry about. In my experience, you can retreat a mud-isolated unit and it will not surrender.

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Post #: 140
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/5/2012 4:42:54 PM   
Flaviusx


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Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: offline 		It's due to both mud and the fact that Bryansk Front is all over his supply lines. I don't see him taking Moscow, either, he's going to need the snow turns just to clean up his logistical mess before the blizzard, and he won't be able to get a lot of digging done.

And he's got a couple of outright surrounded panzer divisions, too, by Voronezh. Those guys may be dead. All in all, it's fairly ugly. If he had cleaned up his rear before hitting mud, he'd be in decent shape, but the failure to do this has plainly blown up in his face.




< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 6/5/2012 4:43:26 PM >

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Post #: 141
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/5/2012 4:58:11 PM   
notenome

 

Posts: 598
Joined: 12/28/2009
Status: offline 		All true Flav, but I really want this game to continue, but as I told 821, I'll respect his decision either way.

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Post #: 142
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/5/2012 5:02:53 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 5748
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: offline 		I don't think it's a game killer, he's got a ton of real estate in 1941 and the Red Army is not in brilliant shape, but he's in for a rough winter. It's kind of amazing what happened here in the last 4 turns. You were in real trouble, but he threw away his advantage. A remarkable turn in events.





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Post #: 143
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/6/2012 2:14:47 PM   
notenome

 

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Joined: 12/28/2009
Status: offline 		Considering that the mud season's effects caught 821 well by surprise, I proposed a mud ceasefire. 821 agreed to this and said he'll move the panzers off Voronezh so I can evacuate the city. Whilst this means those isolated panzer puppies get to live, it also means the Tula-Orel pocket will stay alive until snow.

Krieg ohne Hass.

< Message edited by notenome -- 6/6/2012 2:16:54 PM >

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Post #: 144
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/6/2012 2:36:20 PM   
hfarrish

 

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A good way to go - just agreed to do this in a similar early war situation in one of my games; no sense in tossing a decent game b/c of something like this.

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Post #: 145
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/6/2012 3:29:40 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
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From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Well, yes, but 821 did put his own snout into the meat grinder so to speak. Is this the first time 821 encounters mud?

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Post #: 146
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/6/2012 7:23:24 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 5748
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: offline 		Truly, it isn't the mud by itself that's the problem here, Tarhunnas, although I admit that the turn 17 moves were extremely rash considering that mud was coming. He should have concentrated his forces on eliminating his problem spots in the rear and making absolutely sure the pocket couldn't be reopened -- sending off an entire panzer corps in the direction of Voronezh was a major error given the timing. Maybe he just forgot that turn 18 is guaranteed mud, even with random weather. Or perhaps this was a case of victory disease.

Anyways, a slight mulligan here for the Axis is a reasonable enough request. Nobody wants to see a premature ending to the game due to a momentary brain fart. The game was interesting and competitive right up to this point. But it does go to show you how a couple of poorly thought out turns at the wrong time can blow up on you. You have to be very careful going into weather changes and account for them, they are potential game changers.





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Post #: 147
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/6/2012 9:47:29 PM   
notenome

 

Posts: 598
Joined: 12/28/2009
Status: offline 		821 is an experienced and extremely competent player. He has given me hell the entire time and only in the few turns have I been able to threaten his initiative. The reason he sent his panzers was Voronezh wasn't evacuated, so he wanted to nudge it in an effort to hold my industry, which is something a lot of players do, industry raids. Unfortunately he did it before mud and it blew up in his face. That said, how many Axis players can really say they wouldn't risk it to destroy (or at least hold) industry, especially Voronezh? As for the pockets, well thats kind of my MO, using pockets too delay the advance by continuosly reopening them. By what I gather from the site and other AARs, most Soviet players (Tarhaunnas, Flav excluded) play a more passive defensive game, which isn't my style, so its easy for an Axis player to fall into bad habits (regiments, regiments, regiments I love me some regiments).

With that said I need to start preparing for the blizzard. What's the wise play here? Send low morale inf to the rear to refit? I really don't want to risk pulling my siberians or guards from the line, as they single handedly won the battle of Moscow.

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Post #: 148
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/6/2012 9:53:10 PM   
randallw

 

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Status: offline 		People like to take risks like Guderian.

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 149
RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/6/2012 10:17:40 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
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From: Hex X37, Y15
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quote:

ORIGINAL: notenome
That said, how many Axis players can really say they wouldn't risk it to destroy (or at least hold) industry, especially Voronezh?


Indeed, I have done exactly the same thing as Axis, twice, lost my best divisions surrendered. I learnt from it and continued the games.

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41Ger
41Sov
41Ger
42Ger
42Sov

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Post #: 150
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