RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page.

Matrix Games Forums

A look through the keyhole #10!

The Age of Shadows on Distant Worlds starts now!

Paypal System Update

Distant Worlds: Shadows Final Teaser!

Distant Worlds: Legends gets Updated!

Recruiting Testers for Commander: the Great War on Mac!

Armageddon invasion starts in 2014

Command Rommels Panzers in Battle Academy!

Servers Update

The Deal goes Fourth!

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page.

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page.

Page: << < prev 11 12 [13] 14 15 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/26/2012 10:16:46 PM

notenome

Posts: 598
Joined: 12/28/2009
Status: offline

Flav, I can't exactly reinforce my brigades as that would divert reinforcements from the frontlines. What can I really use my brigades for until I'm allowed to merge them into corps/divisions? It seems that even a mediocre amount of digging is better than nothing, no?

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 361

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/26/2012 10:21:37 PM

Flaviusx

Posts: 5752
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: offline

If your stuff is on the front lines, it won't be getting much in the way of reinforcements anyways. Refits are very sketchy on the front.

All I'm saying is plan on having to reinforce these fronts come March. Yes, even with brigades if that's all you have that's fresh. You're not familiar with March madness, I take it. (It's been toned down, but the transition to snow can still be ugly in 42.)

A lot of Soviet players used to the old style fort rules have a tendency of tying down too much of the Red Army in the deep rear in 1942 digging, and this doesn't work anymore, can indeed be disastrous.

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to notenome)

Post #: 362

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/26/2012 10:53:34 PM

Pelton

Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

This is a good 1942 defencsive line. From 1942-45 as Russian you better have everything up front. Strong front line with reserves near by. If you have lines of defences you make pocketing units easy.

xzr8421 defence in 1942 was perfect other then his breakthroughs, which vs lesser Germans broke there backs and he won.

I am sure Flaviusx 1942 defence is a little different, but vs good shc players they stack the front. If the front is broken your toast, game set match you will not recover.

The few games I lost I was uable to crack the lines in 1942, sure I got pockets but never broke out.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2962633&mpage=4&key=

< Message edited by Pelton -- 6/26/2012 10:54:11 PM >

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 363

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/26/2012 11:25:37 PM

notenome

Posts: 598
Joined: 12/28/2009
Status: offline

821 had some time on his hands so today apparently is going to be a daily double.

Here is the situation after recon:

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Pelton)

Post #: 364

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/26/2012 11:32:31 PM

notenome

Posts: 598
Joined: 12/28/2009
Status: offline

And here we have the Shock breakthrough. There are clearly three options: swing left towards Kaluga and beyond, swing right towards Orel and Kursk, or forge ahead and risk an elongated flank on both sides. What would you do?

EDIT: I should mention that those gaps are really there, 821 doesn't have enough units to plug the holes at the moment.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by notenome -- 6/26/2012 11:33:36 PM >

(in reply to notenome)

Post #: 365

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/27/2012 1:12:47 AM

Flaviusx

Posts: 5752
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: offline

I would go west and north. South leads nowhere, no clear stopline, and you don't have an anvil to your hammer. North allows you to work in conjunction with your strongest and best Fronts and keep the pressure up in that area. It also diverts reinforcements there rather than south. He'll be counterattacking down south, or will want to, but if you can create a mess up north, that will complicate things.

The reason I say west and north is because Bryansk is a nice place to anchor your line come spring. It also denies him a major rail nexus. I wouldn't push past Bryansk though. Your present location is not a good place to stop.

You have enough cavalry there, I think, to threaten both areas. You'll need to insert some rifle armies as flank protection, though, south of this. Those tank brigades aren't going to cut it when snow arrives.

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to notenome)

Post #: 366

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/27/2012 1:53:40 AM

Pelton

Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

Hes in trouble. If you have allot of cav in breakout area you can have some fun. Cav for the win.

_____________________________

GHC
15 - 3 - 7

10 games ended in 41 (10-0-0)
4 games ended in 42 (4-0-2)
3 games ended in 43 (1-2-3)
1 game ended in 44 (0-1-2)

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 367

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/27/2012 10:30:12 AM

timmyab

Posts: 617
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline

Yes, North West is probably the way to go if you can.Trouble is that if your opponent knows what he's doing then you'll find very strong enemy forces in the light woods around there.
Also push as hard as you can just North of Kaluga.
I'd be looking to reclaim the arc of good defensive terrain from North of Kaluga down to Bryansk.
To protect the Southern flank of this salient it's vital to take Orel and the surrounding light woods hexes before the Spring.This Southern flank will have to be held in great strength when the thaw comes.

< Message edited by timmyab -- 6/27/2012 10:35:34 AM >

(in reply to Pelton)

Post #: 368

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/27/2012 9:10:30 PM

juret

Posts: 175
Joined: 10/17/2011
Status: offline

i think bryansk to

(in reply to timmyab)

Post #: 369

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/28/2012 3:18:04 PM

notenome

Posts: 598
Joined: 12/28/2009
Status: offline

End of turn screenshot. 32 retreats this time around but some incredibly costly holds. It simply is impossible to hit two stacked German division. And reserve activations from even mediocre minor units can have a devastating impact. Irritating.

Performance in the Shock breakthrough is alright, but not great. Looking at the morale indicators, I think 821 brought up some armor that was resting in Germany to contain the breakthrough. I tried to hit one of them but I think its going to take deliberate attacks from cav corps to dislocate them. We need to encircle some more Axis units, 3 surrendered divisions is just not enough. I have 3 more armies coming up, but its going to take them a while to get there.

We're up to 18 guards divisions (not including 3 guard cavalry divisions inside regular cav corps). There are 10 more guard candidates by W/L records waiting.

I also included the squad production vs losses, our production outstrips our losses considerably. German OOB is pretty much static, I guess that at this point in the Blizzards you have to try to keep the Axis where they are instead of wearing them down further.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to juret)

Post #: 370

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/28/2012 4:29:04 PM

Flaviusx

Posts: 5752
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: offline

He withdrew with alacrity, it was never going to be easy, nor was your army in brilliant shape. If he's using reserves now, that means his line is stabilizing; I'm doubting you'll get many units pocketed. You may have to settle for simple grinding.

You don't seem to be creating many zoc locks with your ordinary rifle attacks.

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to notenome)

Post #: 371

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/28/2012 5:00:14 PM

Seminole

Posts: 491
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: offline

I would advise getting out of that scary bulge while you can. It looks right now like he could pocket all your cavalry corps as soon as the snow comes.
Don't underestimate the German rebound in CV (and reduction in your CV) that comes with the snows.

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 372

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/28/2012 5:12:06 PM

Flaviusx

Posts: 5752
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: offline

He's got a couple more guaranteed blizzard turns left I think. But I'm leaning towards withdrawal myself, tbh. He's got the penetration contained and even backstopped with reserves. And the lack of flank security is most worrying, that screen of tank brigades is not going to cut it.

The key decision here for the Axis was leaving Moscow. That freed up 2 (maybe 3) entire panzer corps, shortened his line, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of that stuff got redeployed into this area to stop the cavalry. The presence of reserve activations in the battles is a bad sign, too.

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to Seminole)

Post #: 373

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/28/2012 5:55:35 PM

gingerbread

Posts: 1167
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Lund, Sweden
Status: offline

Your RR repair is not keeping up - are you leaving room for the RR Brigades in the hexes they should work on? I can see that some rail hexes behind the front are stuffed with other units...

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 374

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/28/2012 6:03:18 PM

notenome

Posts: 598
Joined: 12/28/2009
Status: offline

He's getting reserves in the South, just to be clear Flav, all his units are set to reserve mode. As for the Orel bulge, he doesn't have reserves there. So much so that he brought up a sec regiment to try and fill in the line. He pulled what he could scrap and send it there. I thought about evacuating the bulge but I'm confident that it will actually even out as it comes into contact with the armies attacking south of Moscow. In the two blizzard turns I have left in January I think the northern flank will be straightened out.

ginger- yes, RR repair keeps up at the 1 hex per turn rate, but our advance during the Axis retreat was about 2-3 hexes per turn, so we ran into supply dificulties. That's one of the benefits of the shock bulge, as its angle of attack moves perpendicular to our supply lines.

(in reply to gingerbread)

Post #: 375

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/28/2012 6:40:52 PM

Flaviusx

Posts: 5752
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: offline

Well, you can evaluate the situation at the end of Jan.

Where did he send that Moscow garrison to?

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to notenome)

Post #: 376

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/28/2012 7:19:10 PM

notenome

Posts: 598
Joined: 12/28/2009
Status: offline

He spread them around. One is in Kaluga, some went back to Germany, I think, most are still behind the main line n front of Moscow, acting as reserves but without much success. Pretty sure some of the troops he sent to Bryansk are from there as well. Also its important to note that most of the infantry near Bryansk are regiments, and the two divisions are at about 7k men or less.

One question, should I treat mobile divisions any different than infantry when I attack them? Or is the 3-6 to 1 ratio good enough in a deliberate attack?

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 377

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/28/2012 8:18:00 PM

Flaviusx

Posts: 5752
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: offline

If they are low on AFVs, they're basically just motorized infantry. Perhaps with higher morale than the average landser.

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to notenome)

Post #: 378

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/29/2012 12:49:36 AM

Fishbed

Posts: 1620
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline

No plan at all to switch the penetration to the south and try to surround Orel with some fresh troops? That PzDiv could be a nice prize to end the blizzard...

_____________________________

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 379

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/29/2012 5:45:48 AM

Seminole

Posts: 491
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: offline

quote:

He's got a couple more guaranteed blizzard turns left I think.

I wasn't sure what turn he was on, just saw that the 'shoulders' of his breech are manned by extremely weak units, and the March recovery of CV by a panzer/motorized unit in winter quarters would be more than he could expect to break through in the event they pounced in snow. The 'deeper' he goes, the more tenuous that situation gets. If I was the German I'd have that bulge reduction as my primary March objective.

I still maintain focused attacks to raise Guards eligibility needs to be the priority. Not just to hit the limit available now, but to instantly hit the limit available in the summer (when he can expect to have fewer opportunities to build wins). You also want to get every cavalry unit Guards status so they can have higher morale and therefore even greater enemy ZOC penetration abilities.

ZOC locks and encirclements are nice, but to a degree require a compliant (and stubborn) opponent.

Focusing attacks also helps reduce those murderous holds.

(in reply to Fishbed)

Post #: 380

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/29/2012 9:38:18 AM

notenome

Posts: 598
Joined: 12/28/2009
Status: offline

Fishebed, it is a distinct possibility I'm toying with. Orel is very weakly held, the divisions around it are mostly 1-1 in lvl 1 forts. One of the three rifle armies being sent there is 4th shock army comprised of guards divisions that I pulled from the front. Seriously contemplating having them attack southwards towards the city, but its going to take a while to get there.

Seminole, we are in mid-January right now, so I have 6 (?) blizzard turns I think. Hopefully it will be enough to turn the Axis flank and then there won't be a bulge. If it looks like I won't be able to turn the flank, I will be pulling out. As for Guards, I see your point but here's the thing: many of my divisions pick up multiple wins a turn, because after I force an Axis division from its fort I send fresh divisions that didn't participate in the attack forwards. They then perform 2-3 hasty attacks on the divisions that retreated, picking up 2-3 wins in the process. On average 5-8 divisions become eligible every turn, which is far outstripping the Guards cap.

(in reply to Seminole)

Post #: 381

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/29/2012 5:23:28 PM

Flaviusx

Posts: 5752
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: offline

Snow is possible in February, bear in mind. It is even possible in January, outside the Soviet North zone (which is guaranteed blizzard), but most of the action going on is in the north zone, so you are basically safe until February.

Sending the shock army to Orel is a good idea. Frankly, you need more rifles in this area, period. This tank brigade screen thing you've got going on is a disaster waiting to happen, you've got to cover the gap between Bryansk and SW Fronts with something real.

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to notenome)

Post #: 382

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/29/2012 7:17:30 PM

notenome

Posts: 598
Joined: 12/28/2009
Status: offline

Before Soviet moves:

A few steps back taken in some places by 821. Axis strength seems to be stabilizing around the 2,800,000 mark. My guess is that 821 disbanded a ton of fort regions after I reached the lvl 2 fort line and that provided a short term surge of reinforcements. The northern side of the Orel bulge is packed with 2 or 3 division stacks, but they don't have forts. What is the recommendation for attacking those?

In other news, a new wave of Guards promotions, including two guards cav corps. We're up to 24 guards rifle divisions. Soviet strength continues to rise moderately. I'm guessing we'll be at around the 5 million mark by the end of the blizzard, depending on how many snow turns we get etc.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 383

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/29/2012 7:18:58 PM

notenome

Posts: 598
Joined: 12/28/2009
Status: offline

Close up of the Orel-Bryansk bulge, suggestions are always welcome.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by notenome -- 6/29/2012 7:19:17 PM >

(in reply to notenome)

Post #: 384

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/29/2012 7:46:12 PM

Flaviusx

Posts: 5752
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: offline

That's going to be difficult to punch through with just cav. Hate seeing you stop just short of Bryansk, and he's holding the rail lines, but turning south may be the better way to go now. But not much better, you're lacking any kind of strong infantry punch there as well.

I would be tempted to pull back the cav entirely at this point, tbh. Give up that bulge. Rest them and wait for the infantry to pull up.

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to notenome)

Post #: 385

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/29/2012 8:08:38 PM

gingerbread

Posts: 1167
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Lund, Sweden
Status: offline

The German OOB strength increase is due to the release of ~200k Hiwi's and the ~90k of reinforcements arriving in January (more in Feb).

Even with a hold result you will inflict a one point morale loss on the defender(s) if the final odds are at least 1:2.

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 386

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 6/29/2012 8:15:50 PM

notenome

Posts: 598
Joined: 12/28/2009
Status: offline

Flav he can keep Bryansk, I want to protect Moscow's southern flank, and for that I need Kaluga. Orel looks ripe. If the bulge accomplished one thing, is that its stretched the Germans fairly thin in various places.

(in reply to gingerbread)

Post #: 387

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 7/1/2012 3:53:42 AM

notenome

Posts: 598
Joined: 12/28/2009
Status: offline

Turn 32.

Offensive action ramped up this turn. Soviet forces scored 37 retreats and 8 holds, a decent if not great performance. Almost no Axis reserve activations this turn, which I attribute to the Axis line being stripped this turn to deal with the Orel bulge, which no longer is really a bulge (more on that on the next post).

A few more comments:

-Taking a look around, we have 24 guards divisions and 24 airborne brigades. That would equal to 32 guards rifles at the moment. Not only that, but there are 28 divisions who currently have a W/L record that would qualify them for guards status, with many more on the cusp. Good chance we're going to have a whole lot of guards come summer.

-I have excess labour squads but construction formations are at max TOEs. I have begun disbanding RR brigades as I built way too many (didn't know about the changes that had been made). Will those excess labor squads get converted? If not I'm going to have some 10k excess labor squads in the pool in a few months.

-German OOB is now at an all time low, and if present trends continue we should (a big if) see the Axis ready OOB fall to below the 2.5 mil mark next turn. Hopefully.

-Instead of just having brigades dig to their hearts content behind the lines, we are now spreading brigades around like crazy to hold forts that have been built during combat. They are, if you will pardon the pun, holding down the fort.

-Western, Northwestern, Bryansk and Leningrad Fronts are no longer constrained by enemy units, only by their own mps. As can be seen by the screenshot (supply soft factor), the Axis don't have much of anything lying to protect the northern approach to Moscow.

-I included a screenshot of our ten largest armies. Reiter's 44th is the largest, as it has many of the fresh Caucassian divisions. Surprisingly Rokossovky's 13th, with the best W/L record in the Red Army (2:1, 37 and 17 IIRC) is only the 8th largest. It also possesses one AFV that it probably captured from the fascists.

-Manpower pool grew slightly this turn. We gain about 70-100k men in total OOB strength per turn, and loose about 30-50k, for a net of about 30k every turn. I expect/hope to be at about 5 million by the mud.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to notenome)

Post #: 388

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 7/1/2012 4:17:50 AM

notenome

Posts: 598
Joined: 12/28/2009
Status: offline

And the Orel bulge in detail (supply soft factor)

To understand the importance of the Orel bulge simply consider that everything you see west of Orel bar some 8 odd infantry divisions had to be brought up from other sectors of the front. This has drastically reduced Axis reserves everywhere and created several crises along the front.

-Green outlines are the panzer/motorized divisions here that would have been elsewhere. Most came from Western and Southern Front's sector.

-Blue outline is a mountain division that has been railed in from the south. That could be trouble.

-Red Xs are where three Axis soft units got punked by a motorized raid. As a bonus I also clipped the rail line.

-4th Shock Army (all those Guards) is preparing for an attack on Orel's southern flank together with SW Front's 12th Army. 26th Army (STAVKA) will strike from the north.

-Black line is our target frontline by end of February. roughly 50 miles in 5 turns for Volkhov, Bryansk and 1st, 2nd, 3rd Shock Armies. 20-30 miles for 4th Shock, 26th, 12th Armies.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by notenome -- 7/1/2012 4:23:22 AM >

(in reply to notenome)

Post #: 389

RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 82... - 7/1/2012 7:51:38 AM

randallw

Posts: 1928
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline

Beware of February; the blizzard effects are wearing off and replacements seem to be getting back into the German units. Your frontline units worn down in fighting can get hit hard.

(in reply to notenome)

Post #: 390

Page: << < prev 11 12 [13] 14 15 next > >>

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page.

Page: << < prev 11 12 [13] 14 15 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

0.211