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RE: Shattered Dreams ~ the end of IJN production as you know it

 
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RE: Shattered Dreams ~ the end of IJN production as you... - 5/10/2012 9:31:51 PM   
mdiehl

 

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quote:

production WAS hampered by an aluminum shortage


Quite so. Interesting that Stormwolf seems to have come up with both a historically accurate observation and a way of working it into WitP. Probably that is what bothers his local detractors the most. He's invented a better mousetrap. It scares the mice.

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Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

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Post #: 31
RE: Shattered Dreams ~ the end of IJN production as you... - 5/10/2012 11:42:08 PM   
SqzMyLemon


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

quote:

production WAS hampered by an aluminum shortage


Quite so. Interesting that Stormwolf seems to have come up with both a historically accurate observation and a way of working it into WitP. Probably that is what bothers his local detractors the most. He's invented a better mousetrap. It scares the mice.


I don't think it's quite this cut and dry mdiehl. I also say power to CS for his thoughts and if he wants to make a better mousetrap then so be it. However, much of what he clutters up other threads with really belongs in the modding forum. Other players that are asking questions about the game as it now stands are often subjected to his posts that have no bearing on the subject discussed and derails their intent. That's when people start in on him, myself included, and for good reason. What he constantly bombards us with has no bearing on the current iteration of WitPAE, except what may be possible in a mod format. I'd like to see him take his ideas and create the mod that best reflects his interpretation of things, THEN open up his own thread for discussion. Right now his posts are pure fantasy and they don't belong in posts by others concerning the REALITY of current gameplay.

In this case he did start his own thread and those of us that simply don't care shouldn't be posting anything in it. In fact, we've derailed his own thread.

I just wish he'd realize that the majority of his own posts accomplish the same thing. If it's intentional, he's trolling, if not and he's simply caught up in his own enthusiasm for his ideas, then he has to start having some self-awarenss that not everyone agrees with his viewpoint. People don't appreciate his posts in other threads anymore that serve nothing other than to push his own agenda.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to mdiehl)
Post #: 32
RE: Shattered Dreams ~ the end of IJN production as you... - 5/11/2012 2:57:48 AM   
MBF

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 3/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

quote:

production WAS hampered by an aluminum shortage


Quite so. Interesting that Stormwolf seems to have come up with both a historically accurate observation and a way of working it into WitP. Probably that is what bothers his local detractors the most. He's invented a better mousetrap. It scares the mice.


I don't think it's quite this cut and dry mdiehl. I also say power to CS for his thoughts and if he wants to make a better mousetrap then so be it. However, much of what he clutters up other threads with really belongs in the modding forum. Other players that are asking questions about the game as it now stands are often subjected to his posts that have no bearing on the subject discussed and derails their intent. That's when people start in on him, myself included, and for good reason. What he constantly bombards us with has no bearing on the current iteration of WitPAE, except what may be possible in a mod format. I'd like to see him take his ideas and create the mod that best reflects his interpretation of things, THEN open up his own thread for discussion. Right now his posts are pure fantasy and they don't belong in posts by others concerning the REALITY of current gameplay.

In this case he did start his own thread and those of us that simply don't care shouldn't be posting anything in it. In fact, we've derailed his own thread.

I just wish he'd realize that the majority of his own posts accomplish the same thing. If it's intentional, he's trolling, if not and he's simply caught up in his own enthusiasm for his ideas, then he has to start having some self-awarenss that not everyone agrees with his viewpoint. People don't appreciate his posts in other threads anymore that serve nothing other than to push his own agenda.


++1

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 33
RE: Shattered Dreams ~ the end of IJN production as you... - 5/11/2012 6:48:12 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 3845
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
Other players that are asking questions about the game as it now stands are often subjected to his posts that have no bearing on the subject discussed and derails their intent. That's when people start in on him, myself included, and for good reason. What he constantly bombards us with has no bearing on the current iteration of WitPAE, except what may be possible in a mod format. I'd like to see him take his ideas and create the mod that best reflects his interpretation of things, THEN open up his own thread for discussion. Right now his posts are pure fantasy and they don't belong in posts by others concerning the REALITY of current gameplay.

In this case he did start his own thread and those of us that simply don't care shouldn't be posting anything in it. In fact, we've derailed his own thread.

I just wish he'd realize that the majority of his own posts accomplish the same thing. If it's intentional, he's trolling, if not and he's simply caught up in his own enthusiasm for his ideas, then he has to start having some self-awarenss that not everyone agrees with his viewpoint. People don't appreciate his posts in other threads anymore that serve nothing other than to push his own agenda.


You hit the nail.

It is a bit like entering an astrophysics´ forum and continuousely and aggressively selling modifications to currently accepted theories by including the signs
of the zodiac.

Some might find this funny, others ignore it, and many will get annoyed pretty soon and start flaming, more so if above is presented as universal remedy for questions posted
by other forum members. This general reaction would be obvious and predictable.

Personally I do not think CS is too stupid to realize this, so this leaves intentional trolling as another explanation.

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S**t happens in war.

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(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 34
RE: Shattered Dreams ~ the end of IJN production as you... - 5/11/2012 7:46:02 AM   
JocMeister

 

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The solution as always is to never write anything in the threads and they will soon stop appearing. But some people just have to write something to let the OP know he is a troll/idiot/whatever. And so they will keep appearing...

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 35
RE: Shattered Dreams ~ the end of IJN production as you... - 5/11/2012 7:48:17 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 4432
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

The solution as always is to never write anything in the threads and they will soon stop appearing. But some people just have to write something to let the OP know he is a troll/idiot/whatever. And so they will keep appearing...

+1

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Pax

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 36
RE: Shattered Dreams ~ the end of IJN production as you... - 5/11/2012 5:11:11 PM   
Commander Stormwolf

 

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Joined: 2/19/2008
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PTO IV is "arcade in the pacific"

it's no more a game about the pacific, than pearl harbor is a movie about pearl harbor
it's just an arcade game with a pacwar theme

but it does allow separate steel and aluminum
and that makes a lot of sense..

in the japanese warplan

oil was #1
bauxite was #2


WITP is pretty excellent,
putting that feature would make it close to perfect


_____________________________

"No Enemy Survives Contact with the Plan" - Commander Stormwolf

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 37
RE: Shattered Dreams ~ the end of IJN production as you... - 5/11/2012 5:19:57 PM   
Commander Stormwolf

 

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and as to my suggestion of getting rid of the AC research system ~

player has hindsight and knows what designs work and what designs didn't

at least the engines need to arrive on the historical dates no matter what

Ha-60-11 on 7/42
Ha-32-21 on 1/43
Ha-33-62 on 1/43
Ha-45-12 on 11/43
Ha-60-23 on 4/44
Ha-45-21 on 1/45

etc..

remember japanese designed lots of airframes for those new engines

(B7A Grace was ready by mid 1942 , B6N Jill was ready mid 1941 )

but the engines were not developed...

.. also i am convinced no matter what yamamoto did could make the engineers invent
better engines faster (and that yamamoto magically knew what engines would work and what didn't)
R&D is a long process of trial and error

remember the Nakajima Mamoru?

but I think it is realistic to allow the player to re-configure the designs already available,
like my B6N Jill or Ki-44-IIc examples


< Message edited by Commander Stormwolf -- 5/11/2012 5:20:59 PM >


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"No Enemy Survives Contact with the Plan" - Commander Stormwolf

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Post #: 38
RE: Shattered Dreams ~ the end of IJN production as you... - 5/11/2012 5:25:02 PM   
mdiehl

 

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
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quote:

I just wish he'd realize that the majority of his own posts accomplish the same thing. If it's intentional, he's trolling, if not and he's simply caught up in his own enthusiasm for his ideas, then he has to start having some self-awarenss that not everyone agrees with his viewpoint. People don't appreciate his posts in other threads anymore that serve nothing other than to push his own agenda.


Some of what you say is fair. But I disagree that having a conversation that so offends the Thought Police that they MUST come in and start insulting people means that you blame the OP. I have seen those particular people who, in this thread, have immediately sprung to the clarion call of their own stupidity and accused CS of "trolling" destroy MANY good discussions MERELY because they disliked the future developmental implications of the discussion.

CS "offense" in this thread was that he implied that the Japanese production model could be tweaked to be made better with respect to historically plausible production outcomes for Japan. That was the only "offense" required to set off The Mob. The Mob are known serial offenders. Many of them have had their posting privileges at Matrix suspended multiple times. The guys in this thread who called CS a "troll" are the very last people on Earth who ought to ever open their mouths about "trolling." They are the prime, repeat offenders. Every flame war starts with one of 'em wading in to a discussion that they could have left alone and skipping completely over reasoned discourse and proceeding directly to insults.

< Message edited by mdiehl -- 5/11/2012 5:26:23 PM >


_____________________________

Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

(in reply to mdiehl)
Post #: 39
RE: Shattered Dreams ~ the end of IJN production as you... - 5/11/2012 5:31:08 PM   
mdiehl

 

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline
quote:

player has hindsight and knows what designs work and what designs didn't


One way to take some of the certainty out of that in future development is to make the R&D outcomes less "knowable." That is, if you invest in a design, you don't make it clear that that design will necessarily work out as well as the historical one. Or, alternatively, you get real about the actual design limitations. Japanese late war high-HP engines were notoriously unreliable, not merely because of logistical constraints but also because the designs themselves were complex and the problems insufficiently resolved. Necessity drove the Japanese to put into service engine designs that required further refinement. One way to reflect that problem within the parameters of the game as presently constituted would be to increase the service and supply requirements for advanced Japanese a.c. designs.

_____________________________

Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

(in reply to mdiehl)
Post #: 40
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