Matrix Games Forums

To End All Wars: Mountain InfantryPandora: Eclipse of Nashira Announced! Deal of the Week: Command Ops goes half price!New Fronts are opening up for Commander: The Great WarCharacters of World War 1Sign of for the Pike and Shot Beta!More Games are Coming to Steam! Return to the Moon on October 31st! Commander: The Great War iPad Wallpapers Generals of the Great War
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Problems with classic APS

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Conflict of Heroes Series >> Problems with classic APS Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Problems with classic APS - 5/9/2012 6:59:55 AM   
oivind22

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 5/9/2012
Status: offline
When playing with the option "classic APS" I am not able to activate more than one squad during a turn. Even after it has 0 AP left, I can't select another squad.

Also, I have the impression that even though you can turn on classic AP, there is no opportunity action or CAP action like in the board game. It seems you can only give CAPs to the squad that is activated. Is this correct? That kinda beats the purpose of having classic APS in the first place, since the only ones who are going to use it are the ones who want the same rules as in the board game. Opportunity action isn't necessary when playing with persistent APS of course, but it is an absolute necessity when playing with classic APS. Opportunity actions and CAP actions are what makes classic APS work in the board game. Yes, you can only activate one squad at a time, but there are three ways of activating other squads, although at a cost: Opportunity action, CAP action or card action. Of these three it seems to me that the computer game only has implemented card actions. So if you want to react with another squad than the one that is activated, you need to have a card available. Or am I missing something?
Post #: 1
RE: Problems with classic APS - 5/9/2012 7:25:22 AM   
ioticus

 

Posts: 169
Joined: 6/13/2004
Status: offline
You need to hit escape to deselect your unit so you can activate another unit. This is to prevent you from accidentally spending your unit. I agree with you that they should implement opportunity and command actions. I only play in classic AP mode because I feel it makes my decisions more tense and interesting. Because they left out the other 2 actions, the game is not as interesting or engaging as the board game because there are less meaningful decisions to make. It feels like 1 step forward and 3 steps back. My other problem with the game is the AI is very weak. I've yet to lose against it and I usually win by large margins. I'm not surprised by this but it's always disappointing when it happens to a game you were looking forward to. Other than those problems I like the game and think it will be fun in multiplayer.


< Message edited by ioticus -- 5/9/2012 7:30:08 AM >

(in reply to oivind22)
Post #: 2
RE: Problems with classic APS - 5/9/2012 7:37:55 AM   
Bison36

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ioticus

I only play in classic AP mode because I feel it makes my decisions more tense and interesting. Because they left out the other 2 actions, the game is not as interesting or engaging as the board game because there are less meaningful decisions to make.


What are the 2 actions?

(in reply to ioticus)
Post #: 3
RE: Problems with classic APS - 5/9/2012 7:39:53 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 32881
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
Hi Oivind22,

quote:

ORIGINAL: oivind22
When playing with the option "classic APS" I am not able to activate more than one squad during a turn. Even after it has 0 AP left, I can't select another squad.


This option was a late addition, so the readme explains that when in this mode you need to use the Escape key to deselect units. This is to avoid accidentally deselecting a unit.

quote:

Also, I have the impression that even though you can turn on classic AP, there is no opportunity action or CAP action like in the board game. It seems you can only give CAPs to the squad that is activated. Is this correct?


That's correct, we weren't able to implement those at the last minute, but we plan to have the full system in place in time for the first expansion (and apply it to this release in an update at that time).

quote:

That kinda beats the purpose of having classic APS in the first place, since the only ones who are going to use it are the ones who want the same rules as in the board game.


Unfortunately this is the best solution we could come up with once we received the feedback pre-release that customers wanted a non-persistent AP option. I realize there's more to do, but we though it would be better to have this option than to not have it at all until the full system is implemented.

quote:

Opportunity action isn't necessary when playing with persistent APS of course, but it is an absolute necessity when playing with classic APS. Opportunity actions and CAP actions are what makes classic APS work in the board game. Yes, you can only activate one squad at a time, but there are three ways of activating other squads, although at a cost: Opportunity action, CAP action or card action. Of these three it seems to me that the computer game only has implemented card actions. So if you want to react with another squad than the one that is activated, you need to have a card available. Or am I missing something?


We've played the board game quite a lot as well and agree that the full system needs to be there as an option, but that was not possible for release. The Persistent AP system was created for the PC game after many discussions with Uwe in which we all thought it made for a better game given the capabilities of the computer. Since the AP system connects to so many parts of the game, changing it late in development by trying to implement all aspects of the "Classic" AP system could have broken most of the game and resulted in months of additional development time. We could not do that, but we have committed to implementing the non-persistent "Classic" AP system with all actions in full in time for the first expansion.

Regards,

- Erik


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to oivind22)
Post #: 4
RE: Problems with classic APS - 5/9/2012 7:43:35 AM   
ioticus

 

Posts: 169
Joined: 6/13/2004
Status: offline
That's great to hear you will be implementing the full classic AP system, Erik.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 5
RE: Problems with classic APS - 5/9/2012 7:44:00 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 32881
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ioticus
My other problem with the game is the AI is very weak. I've yet to lose against it and I usually win by large margins. I'm not surprised by this but it's always disappointing when it happens to a game you were looking forward to. Other than those problems I like the game and think it will be fun in multiplayer.


I should note that the AI is designed and balanced for the Persistent AP option. It is a bit less capable when using the Non-Persistent AP option. We'll address that once the rest of the "Classic" AP system is implemented.

In addition, it's worth noting that a veteran COH gamer who can beat other COH players will have a much easier time against the AI than a new player. We found this during testing as well, where the AI could easily beat players who had not yet mastered COH, but had a much harder time against COH veterans. The multiplayer system is ready for you as well! Once you've played through the firefights and are regularly beating the AI, be sure to give multiplayer a try, it's very easy to use.

Regards,

- Erik


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to ioticus)
Post #: 6
RE: Problems with classic APS - 5/9/2012 7:44:39 AM   
ioticus

 

Posts: 169
Joined: 6/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bison36


quote:

ORIGINAL: ioticus

I only play in classic AP mode because I feel it makes my decisions more tense and interesting. Because they left out the other 2 actions, the game is not as interesting or engaging as the board game because there are less meaningful decisions to make.


What are the 2 actions?


I'm referring to opportunity and command actions.

(in reply to Bison36)
Post #: 7
RE: Problems with classic APS - 5/9/2012 7:58:46 AM   
oivind22

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 5/9/2012
Status: offline
I deleted this post, so as not to sound so negative when my question has been answered.

< Message edited by oivind22 -- 5/9/2012 8:05:00 AM >

(in reply to ioticus)
Post #: 8
RE: Problems with classic APS - 5/9/2012 8:01:49 AM   
oivind22

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 5/9/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

Also, I have the impression that even though you can turn on classic AP, there is no opportunity action or CAP action like in the board game. It seems you can only give CAPs to the squad that is activated. Is this correct?


That's correct, we weren't able to implement those at the last minute, but we plan to have the full system in place in time for the first expansion (and apply it to this release in an update at that time).



Ok, forget my last post, it was written before I read this. I'm happy with this answer, so I'll stop being negative.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 9
RE: Problems with classic APS - 5/9/2012 8:07:46 AM   
oivind22

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 5/9/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ioticus

You need to hit escape to deselect your unit so you can activate another unit. This is to prevent you from accidentally spending your unit.



Thanks for the tip.

(in reply to ioticus)
Post #: 10
RE: Problems with classic APS - 2/17/2014 1:15:57 PM   
chemkid

 

Posts: 363
Joined: 12/15/2012
Status: offline
quote:

I should note that the AI is designed and balanced for the Persistent AP option. It is a bit less capable when using the Non-Persistent AP option. We'll address that once the rest of the "Classic" AP system is implemented.


playing CoH-AtB with classic aps and it feels way to easy to win (hard settings)...
when will the ai get it's upgrade for the classic ap system?

cheers!
chem!

_____________________________


(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 11
RE: Problems with classic APS - 2/19/2014 4:11:00 PM   
Crender

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 6/29/2012
Status: offline
Yes, I have just come back to this game having previously played all scenarios with Persistent APS. Now playing Classic APS and the AI does not seem to know what to do. Is the AI still programmed for Persistent APS? Is there any point at all playing in Classic APS mode against the AI or is only multiplayer possible?

(in reply to chemkid)
Post #: 12
RE: Problems with classic APS - 2/22/2014 10:16:33 AM   
Crender

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 6/29/2012
Status: offline
OK so I tried The Gap with Classic APS and Expert difficulty and got hammered by the AI. Just ramping up the difficulty level gives a good game against the AI in Classic mode.

(in reply to Crender)
Post #: 13
RE: Problems with classic APS - 2/22/2014 2:40:02 PM   
chemkid

 

Posts: 363
Joined: 12/15/2012
Status: offline
@Crender - thanks for the info. will try!

chem!

(in reply to Crender)
Post #: 14
RE: Problems with classic APS - 3/7/2014 9:24:28 PM   
Chris Merchant


Posts: 1118
Joined: 4/18/2000
From: Adelaide, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

Is there any point at all playing in Classic APS mode against the AI or is only multiplayer possible?


The ai has no programming of the classic AP system built in, so it's going to be a very poor opponent if you want to play it that way.

Suggest you play multiplayer with Classic APs if you want to start getting closer to the experience of COH as the original developer of the game intended (and wrote the scenarios for).

(in reply to chemkid)
Post #: 15
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Conflict of Heroes Series >> Problems with classic APS Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.118