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Base Screen Supply, Fuel, Oil Storage, Resource Storage Yes/No option

 
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Base Screen Supply, Fuel, Oil Storage, Resource Storage... - 5/8/2012 2:06:34 AM   
jecunningham

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 3/13/2006
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[somewhat of a rant, but also a request for game information]

Ok, I'm a new WitPAE player, more than a bit frustrated with the outdated manual that came with my $80 purchase. Guess I expected a completed product for that type of investment. Shortly after installing the game, I proceeded to read the manual, imagine that. Several pages into it the manual advises/strongly recommends I should not jump right into a game, but to play through the tutorial that was installed on the hard drive as part of the installation. So, I searched the game folders, click, click, click, can't find the tutorial PDF anywhere. Spend an hour searching this forum to discover the manual lied to me, there is no tutorial. Not a great way to make a good initial impression on a customer. So I start a short campaign, Guadalcanal. Begin looking around at everything, very impressed with the depth of the simulation. I'm reviewing the Base display and see Supply, Fuel, Oil Storage and Resource Storage quantity, consumption, etc. levels. Next to each is a Yes/No toggle. Hmmm... I think, wonder what that does. Go back to the manual, go to the Base screem information page. Only, lo and behold, the screen shot doesn't show the Yes/No toggle and the text doesn't mention the feature at all. So I spend another hour searching this forum and am not successful in finding anything about this feature. At this point, I'm not a happy camper, feel like I've been taken for $80 for a very unfinished product. To be honest I'd expect to see many more posts like mine, but strangely I don't.

So anyways, two questions please.

1) can someone please tell me the purpose of the Yes/No toggle.

2) as I continue to work my way through WitPAE am I going to find a lot more missing information/incorrect manual references issues like this?

Thanks,

Jim Cunningham
Long-time Matrix customer
Post #: 1
RE: Base Screen Supply, Fuel, Oil Storage, Resource Sto... - 5/8/2012 2:55:55 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

Posts: 21111
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
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Hey Jim: That particular screen is malformed in my opinion and needs to be redesigned. The No's refer to whether or not stockpiling is on or off for the item on that line ( horizontal rows ).




And to answer your second question: Yes, I'm afraid there's a ton of things not covered in the manual or covered only slightly and even buttonology isn't explained very well. BUT...there's lots of people on the forum ( me included ) who will take the time to try to answer ANY question you might have. Lots of these questions are answered in the AAR's or in the War Room section of the forum etc.

Good luck with your adventure learning the game and please be patient, after a while it will become second nature and you'll learn to love this fabulous game like the rest of us do.

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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 5/8/2012 2:58:59 AM >

(in reply to jecunningham)
Post #: 2
RE: Base Screen Supply, Fuel, Oil Storage, Resource Sto... - 5/8/2012 3:07:52 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 8163
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
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One of the problems you're facing is that the game engine has been updated a fair bit since the initial release. It has both an upside and a downside. The upside is that this game is getting much better software support over the long term than just about any other game out there. However, the documentation has gotten out of date.

The tutorial is an unfortunate issue that is an exception to the above. The original WitP game had a tutorial and the manual update left that information in there, but the tutorial never quite for finished. I believe there was a tutorial thread posted to the forum. There have been a number of AARs for beginners.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 3
RE: Base Screen Supply, Fuel, Oil Storage, Resource Sto... - 5/8/2012 4:43:23 AM   
Hanzberger


Posts: 771
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: SE Pennsylvania
Status: offline
That little stockpile button is a HUGE improvement once you get the hang of it.
And remember, the first button to the right of "Supplies Required" goes in increments of 1000. BUT it is times 3
example, click once it will say 1000 but the game engine will try to get 3x that amount (3000)
Stockpiling is key for moving or keeping, fuel, resources, oil and supplies.



< Message edited by Hanzberger -- 5/8/2012 4:44:05 AM >


_____________________________


Japan AC wire chart here
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2769286&mpage=1&key=?

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 4
RE: Base Screen Supply, Fuel, Oil Storage, Resource Sto... - 5/8/2012 5:56:27 AM   
jmalter

 

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the stockpile button gives you some flexibility/control, if set to 'yes', the base will 'hoard' the selected resources - it will expend them for use by in-hex units & industry, but won't allow them to be shared out anywhere else, this can result in resource starvation so it's best to leave them set to 'no' unless you've got a specific goal in mind. the game will attempt to distribute resources to where they're needed, if it can trace an overland route. you will need to use transport / cargo / tanker TFs to distribute resources by sea transport to where they're needed.

additionally, the device pool screen has a stockpiling option for each device, setting any of these to 'yes' can have unwanted side-effects (such as preventing TOE upgrades of the stockpiled device. again, best left set to 'no' w/o a specific reason.

wrt tutorials (or lack thereof), try starting w/ a short scenario such as Coral Sea vs. the AI. then move on to longer scenarios.

< Message edited by jmalter -- 5/8/2012 6:01:43 AM >

(in reply to Hanzberger)
Post #: 5
RE: Base Screen Supply, Fuel, Oil Storage, Resource Sto... - 5/8/2012 7:32:33 AM   
VSWG


Posts: 3432
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Here are some tutorial videos made by a forum member:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2353946

Some (most?) of them were made before the latest and greatest patch (the one which added the stockpiling yes/no buttons, for instance), but there's lots of useful information in there. It also shows the level of dedication this community has for for WitP. So if you have more questions about the interface, game mechanics, strategy, WWII trivia or the meaning of life (to play WitP, of course! ), just fire away - this forum is better than any manual, you'll get answers within hours.

< Message edited by VSWG -- 5/8/2012 7:34:19 AM >


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Post #: 6
RE: Base Screen Supply, Fuel, Oil Storage, Resource Sto... - 5/8/2012 10:23:39 AM   
obvert


Posts: 7228
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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The best way to learn the game is by playing it and asking in a detailed and succinct way (preferably with screenshots or combat reports) for help in these forums, exactly as you've done above.

This game is massive. If everything about playing it was written in a manual it would be 2-3 times the size of the manual as it is. There is a lot of good information in there. The learning sections on the main forum page for the airwar, economy, etc are good as well.

Each player inevitably makes a lot of cheat-sheets with useful information on them. Unfortunately they are spread out over many of the forum pages. Post questions though and you will find a lot of good responses.

For the supply toggles, they work best in situations where you can draw supply from nearby areas and keep it in base. These are places where there are roads or rails generally. This is important for the economy as Japan and for airbases or naval bases for both sides to maintain supply for upgrades and replenishments. Be aware that each base dependent on size has a storage limit capacity above which supply and fuel will spoil.

After more than 2 years of playing this game in addition to a year playing WITP I'm still learning things every day. Mostly from members of this forum. The best thing I did was to become a fairly active participant and to ask a lot of questions in AARs.

Another good place is Sardaukar's Newbie tutorial AAR. He's a vet and explains the why of each decision very well, as well as going through some strategic concerns for the beginning of a grand campaign as the Allies.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2564541

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/8/2012 10:25:48 AM >

(in reply to VSWG)
Post #: 7
RE: Base Screen Supply, Fuel, Oil Storage, Resource Sto... - 5/8/2012 3:06:29 PM   
nate25


Posts: 1388
Joined: 9/20/2011
From: Fishers Indiana
Status: offline
I sort of just "dived in" and explored different features. As I learned I started over what seems like 10,000 times.

I'm a newb too, but I can tell you, just be patient, save your game, and log in to the forum and ask your question. I have never failed to get an answer, usually multiple answers that give you multiple perspectives. Not only that, there are those that will take the time to explain things in depth in PMs.

There is a wealth of not only game knowledge here but historical and technical know-how.

So be patient, you're playing the greatest game ever made. It won't be learned in an afternoon. (Or a year, for that matter.)

Nate

_____________________________

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(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 8
RE: Base Screen Supply, Fuel, Oil Storage, Resource Sto... - 5/8/2012 7:45:47 PM   
jecunningham

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 3/13/2006
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Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your responses and your obvious committment to the simulation gaming experience provided by WitPAE. I'm a very long-time computer wargamer, anyone remember Midway Campaign for the Apple II? I love to immerse myself in whatever campagin/conflict I'm playing. So I'll read books and magazines (Armchair General is great) and watch movies to fill-in my historical context while also playing the "game". Thanks to your enthusiasm and offers of support I'll keep working my way through WitPAE, heck woudln't want to waste the small stack of Pacific Theater books I've already purchased. However, Matrix or 2by3, I'm still dissapointed in you and I still think you owe your customers a more "finished" product; it takes hours and hours to dig through these forums to answer basic questions that should have been included in some form of documentation. A comprehensive addendum to the original manual is not that difficult to produce. I'm recently retired from an IT career and have lots of experience writing technical documentation. Perhaps we could work out a deal!

Thanks again everyone; I'm sure I'll be back posting more questions.

(in reply to nate25)
Post #: 9
RE: Base Screen Supply, Fuel, Oil Storage, Resource Sto... - 5/8/2012 8:34:21 PM   
USS America


Posts: 16187
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Apex, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jecunningham

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your responses and your obvious committment to the simulation gaming experience provided by WitPAE. I'm a very long-time computer wargamer, anyone remember Midway Campaign for the Apple II? I love to immerse myself in whatever campagin/conflict I'm playing. So I'll read books and magazines (Armchair General is great) and watch movies to fill-in my historical context while also playing the "game". Thanks to your enthusiasm and offers of support I'll keep working my way through WitPAE, heck woudln't want to waste the small stack of Pacific Theater books I've already purchased. However, Matrix or 2by3, I'm still dissapointed in you and I still think you owe your customers a more "finished" product; it takes hours and hours to dig through these forums to answer basic questions that should have been included in some form of documentation. A comprehensive addendum to the original manual is not that difficult to produce. I'm recently retired from an IT career and have lots of experience writing technical documentation. Perhaps we could work out a deal!

Thanks again everyone; I'm sure I'll be back posting more questions.



Welcome aboard!

I would just like to clarify one of your observations that AE is not "finished" enough. When the game was released, it was missing a tutorial, true, but that was an oversight in editing the manual, and was not an intended part of the original release. The manual did a fantastic job of describing the millions of things in the game to at least a basic level of detail.

Since then, volunteers (mainly only one guy) have made many, many, many bug fixes and enhancements to the game. These volunteers barely have enough time away from their full time jobs and families to accomplish that much. Even though you believe "A comprehensive addendum to the original manual is not that difficult to produce", I believe it will be a harder job than you think, even with your experience as a technical writer. Don't hold the lack of an updated manual against Matrix, since they are really just the distributors, Henderson Field Designs, since they are all volunteers who don't have extra full time hours to volunteer to produce an update manual, or 2x3 Games, since they have had almost zero involvement in the entire AE project.

Now, as you have the technical writing skills, the time (retired), and an interest in the topic, maybe you would be willing to step up and volunteer to get the job done. I'm sure it would be very easy to work out a (volunteer) deal!

All kidding aside, if you do feel like you want to tackle this job down the road, please speak up! I'm sure I'm not the only player who would love to see an updated manual.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to jecunningham)
Post #: 10
RE: Base Screen Supply, Fuel, Oil Storage, Resource Sto... - 5/9/2012 1:30:16 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 8163
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From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline
The best manual for this game is the forum. We're the most active forum on Matrix's site for a reason.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to USS America)
Post #: 11
RE: Base Screen Supply, Fuel, Oil Storage, Resource Sto... - 5/9/2012 1:59:24 AM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3648
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline
Yes, although it costs money this game is in fact a 100% voluntary effort. Therefore the customer can have no expectations, and despite being in wargame terms a huge hit there will be no further development.

This is all fairly strange from a business perspective, but I'm not complaining since I have vast fun with the beast and it was very cheap.

< Message edited by Captain Cruft -- 5/9/2012 2:02:27 AM >

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 12
RE: Base Screen Supply, Fuel, Oil Storage, Resource Sto... - 5/9/2012 8:03:10 PM   
PizzaMan


Posts: 206
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
I am one of those game players that enjoys playing games without reading the manual. Hundreds of different games played and hundreds of crap User Guides have tarnished me. However, I hit a wall when I purchased UV so many years ago, and have a new found respect for the importance of a good clean manual. However, for all the changes made to the engine over the years, the manual still holds up pretty darn well. A high five for all those who developed this game and produced the orginal manual. Note to self: wipe the brown stuff off your nose before leaving home today.

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 13
RE: Base Screen Supply, Fuel, Oil Storage, Resource Sto... - 5/10/2012 7:43:47 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4717
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG

Here are some tutorial videos made by a forum member:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2353946

Some (most?) of them were made before the latest and greatest patch (the one which added the stockpiling yes/no buttons, for instance), but there's lots of useful information in there. It also shows the level of dedication this community has for for WitP. So if you have more questions about the interface, game mechanics, strategy, WWII trivia or the meaning of life (to play WitP, of course! ), just fire away - this forum is better than any manual, you'll get answers within hours.

Yes, and as the guy responsible for these ... please drop by that thread and post a suggestion ... I'll get to it eventually

_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

(in reply to VSWG)
Post #: 14
RE: Base Screen Supply, Fuel, Oil Storage, Resource Sto... - 5/10/2012 10:54:20 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 14045
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: online
Damian, I don't think you get paid enough to produce those tutorials. I recommend you ask for, no, demand a raise.

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Created by the amazing Dixie

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RE: Base Screen Supply, Fuel, Oil Storage, Resource Sto... - 5/10/2012 12:08:19 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Damian, I don't think you get paid enough to produce those tutorials. I recommend you ask for, no, demand a raise.

+1

I am now raising my glass in toast to Damian! Cheers!!!



_____________________________

Pax

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Post #: 16
RE: Base Screen Supply, Fuel, Oil Storage, Resource Sto... - 5/10/2012 12:27:33 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9786
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From: Edgewater, MD
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I raised several glasses last night...so I'll raise a a cup of coffee this morning.





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