ideal amphibious tf?

[msudrala8]

I am playing allied campaign and not having a lot of luck taking back islands in the south pacific. What units are needed for the ideal attack amphibious tf? What are the minimums needed to have a successful mission?

[bush]

Much depends on when you are talking about. As the war progresses the Allies get many more toys that assist AMPH attacks tremendously. So where are you at currently?

[bradfordkay]

First off, no matter what year in the game it is you will want two to three times as many ships as are necessary to carry the number of troops desired. This will guarantee that they will all be unloaded in the first day so that your mandatory shock attack on the atoll will have a better chance of succeeding. I do hope that your troops are 100% prepared for the target.

[msudrala8]

April 1942.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: msudrala8

April 1942.

Not a good time to do it unless you have overwhelming force and the Japanese garrison is weak and beat down.

In addition it is a very good idea to have a TF (LSTs) that is unloading supply at the same time. It seems that troops land first and then supply and it is not pretty to have your fine units shock attack an entrenched enemy with no supply....

[msudrala8]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: msudrala8

April 1942.

Not a good time to do it unless you have overwhelming force and the Japanese garrison is weak and beat down.

In addition it is a very good idea to have a TF (LSTs) that is unloading supply at the same time. It seems that troops land first and then supply and it is not pretty to have your fine units shock attack an entrenched enemy with no supply....

Probably not good time but I'm impatient and it is killing to watch Japan capture-capture-capture-capture and not do anything.
Other than INF's and an HQ. What other units and ship types are necessary for a good mission?

[msudrala8]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

First off, no matter what year in the game it is you will want two to three times as many ships as are necessary to carry the number of troops desired. This will guarantee that they will all be unloaded in the first day so that your mandatory shock attack on the atoll will have a better chance of succeeding. I do hope that your troops are 100% prepared for the target.

Thats good info about the extra ships, been using minimum (my bad). How do you know if troops are prepared?

[bradfordkay]

In the lower right of the unit information screen there is a "Prep for" button. It should be set to the target destination and will gain 1% per day - so it takes 100 days of training for that unit to be 100% prepped for the target.

And don't forget CRSutton's advice about the supply TF. Be sure to have one along with the troop TFs (but make it an amphibious TF as well, just load it with supplies only).

[msudrala8]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

In the lower right of the unit information screen there is a "Prep for" button. It should be set to the target destination and will gain 1% per day - so it takes 100 days of training for that unit to be 100% prepped for the target.

And don't forget CRSutton's advice about the supply TF. Be sure to have one along with the troop TFs (but make it an amphibious TF as well, just load it with supplies only).

So if I spend 100 days preparing for target "a" and accomplish, will it take them another 100 days to prepare for target "b"? I don't know if I can be that patient!!

[Sardaukar]

You don't have to prepare all the way necessarily, except if you are attacking an atoll. With atolls, less than 100 is trouble, since atoll combat is bit different and more bloody.

You can imagine how my Amph invasions are in later war:

1. Bombardment TF
2. Surface Combat TF (vs. possible IJN surface raiders)
3. main Amph TF
4. supply TF
5. CVE Escort TF (CVEs do not suffer reduction in CAP in coastal hexes)
6. floating reserve TF (for example, if I am invading with division, I may have Regimental Combat Team and Tank Bn in it)
7. covering CV air combat TF
8. follow up TF with base forces & engineers

So, it can get quite complicated.

But I second some advice given. April 1942 is very bad time to start counter-invasions unless you really have to. You do not yet have specialized ships and if IJN main CV force visits you, your troops are in bottom.

[Gridley380]

ORIGINAL: msudrala8

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

In the lower right of the unit information screen there is a "Prep for" button. It should be set to the target destination and will gain 1% per day - so it takes 100 days of training for that unit to be 100% prepped for the target.

And don't forget CRSutton's advice about the supply TF. Be sure to have one along with the troop TFs (but make it an amphibious TF as well, just load it with supplies only).

So if I spend 100 days preparing for target "a" and accomplish, will it take them another 100 days to prepare for target "b"? I don't know if I can be that patient!!

Good news: overall you will accumulate points at a little better than 1 per day, so 90 days or so will usually get you to 100 prep.

Bad news: yes, any given unit can only prep for one target at a time.

Good news: as the Allies, by late 1942 you will have enough units that you can prep several waves at once for different objectives: say, 1st Marines for Tarawa, 2nd for Rabaul, 3rd for Guadalcanal, etc.. You can thus be launching an invasion every 30 days. In theory.

Bad news: you probably don't have enough ships to attack in division strength every 30 days.

For amphibious assaults, APA are superior to AP which are superior to xAP. Most of your troops will be on AP ships in 1942 and well into 1943. APD are good, but small and short ranged. You shouldn't use xAP for opposed amphibious assaults, but they are useful for ferrying troops around between friendly bases and for bringing in follow-on echelons (SeaBees, aviation support, etc.).

Put a few 'heavy' ships in your amphibious TFs - old BBs, CAs, etc. These will help suppress coast defense guns at the target.

In addition to INF, you should bring along a bunch of ENG units - Marine Pioneer and Army Combat Engineer units, for example, will help unload your troops and destroy fortifications. The USMC also has some ART and ARM units which I tend to permanently mate with the division of the same number - so 1st USMC Tank Battalion goes wherever the 1st Marine Division goes.

Use the balance of your old BBs to bombard objectives just before the troops go ashore.

Hope some of that helps.

[inqistor]

ORIGINAL: msudrala8

I am playing allied campaign and not having a lot of luck taking back islands in the south pacific. What units are needed for the ideal attack amphibious tf? What are the minimums needed to have a successful mission?

The better prepared your units, the less damage they take during invasion (although ship type also have influence).

But your best bet, is current US tactic - first bombard the target into stoneage (first from air, then send bombarding TFs).

Probably not good time but I'm impatient and it is killing to watch Japan capture-capture-capture-capture and not do anything.

Now it is a time for partisan strikes.
Japan invade without heavy support? Send there your ships, and sink loaded transport.
Japan put lots of planes on island/coast? Bombard base with heavy ships.
You see transport convoy of supply/fuel? Sink it with your Carriers.

[Canoerebel]

As always, there are many caveats to every rule stated here.
 
As a general rule, the Allies can only rarely engage in contested invasions in the first half of 1942.  Patience is a virtue and also a historical reality.  So get some. 
 
There are times when you can invade with low prep including atolls.  You may have to bring overwhelming force, but as long as you know what you're doing, it can be done.
 
You won't get the sexy, amazing landing ships until 1943.  APA, AKA and LST will amaze you at their speed compared to using xAK and xAP.  The AP are good, but be careful with them.  Many of them convert to APA in March 1943, so don't lose them.  Show some patience.  Save them for when they become truly powerful.
 
For the Allies in 1942, contested invasions are generally a waste of time and effort (at least for atolls; sometimes you can invade non-atoll bases in a big way and do some good stuff).  For the Allies in '42 it's all about stealth and speed and surgical strikes and patience.  The weighted blows usually come later.

[jeffk3510]

I would protect your fleet from enemy bombers with CAP.. as seen below.

[jeffk3510]

...and then.. get them ashore!!

[msudrala8]

ORIGINAL: Gridley380

ORIGINAL: msudrala8

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

In the lower right of the unit information screen there is a "Prep for" button. It should be set to the target destination and will gain 1% per day - so it takes 100 days of training for that unit to be 100% prepped for the target.

And don't forget CRSutton's advice about the supply TF. Be sure to have one along with the troop TFs (but make it an amphibious TF as well, just load it with supplies only).

So if I spend 100 days preparing for target "a" and accomplish, will it take them another 100 days to prepare for target "b"? I don't know if I can be that patient!!

Good news: overall you will accumulate points at a little better than 1 per day, so 90 days or so will usually get you to 100 prep.

Bad news: yes, any given unit can only prep for one target at a time.

Good news: as the Allies, by late 1942 you will have enough units that you can prep several waves at once for different objectives: say, 1st Marines for Tarawa, 2nd for Rabaul, 3rd for Guadalcanal, etc.. You can thus be launching an invasion every 30 days. In theory.

Bad news: you probably don't have enough ships to attack in division strength every 30 days.

For amphibious assaults, APA are superior to AP which are superior to xAP. Most of your troops will be on AP ships in 1942 and well into 1943. APD are good, but small and short ranged. You shouldn't use xAP for opposed amphibious assaults, but they are useful for ferrying troops around between friendly bases and for bringing in follow-on echelons (SeaBees, aviation support, etc.).

Put a few 'heavy' ships in your amphibious TFs - old BBs, CAs, etc. These will help suppress coast defense guns at the target.

In addition to INF, you should bring along a bunch of ENG units - Marine Pioneer and Army Combat Engineer units, for example, will help unload your troops and destroy fortifications. The USMC also has some ART and ARM units which I tend to permanently mate with the division of the same number - so 1st USMC Tank Battalion goes wherever the 1st Marine Division goes.

Use the balance of your old BBs to bombard objectives just before the troops go ashore.

Hope some of that helps.

Thank you, this is great info., exactly what I needed. Now I have some fragmented land units left over from assaults. Can these be disbanded and merged with other units?

[msudrala8]

[/quote]
You see transport convoy of supply/fuel? Sink it with your Carriers.
[/quote]
Started doing some of this. Would like to expand out with US TF carriers and Surface combat TF's. Can these be rearmed and sorties rearmed from all allied bases?

[mike scholl 1]

ORIGINAL: msudrala8
Probably not good time but I'm impatient and it is killing to watch Japan capture-capture-capture-capture and not do anything.
Other than INF's and an HQ. What other units and ship types are necessary for a good mission?

Is KB still afloat and active? If so you are asking to get your teeth kicked in. It IS possible to mount some counterstrikes this early, but only when you know KB isn't around, and the Japs are weak on the target. How is your scouting?

[msudrala8]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

As always, there are many caveats to every rule stated here.

As a general rule, the Allies can only rarely engage in contested invasions in the first half of 1942.  Patience is a virtue and also a historical reality.  So get some. 

There are times when you can invade with low prep including atolls.  You may have to bring overwhelming force, but as long as you know what you're doing, it can be done.

You won't get the sexy, amazing landing ships until 1943.  APA, AKA and LST will amaze you at their speed compared to using xAK and xAP.  The AP are good, but be careful with them.  Many of them convert to APA in March 1943, so don't lose them.  Show some patience.  Save them for when they become truly powerful.

For the Allies in 1942, contested invasions are generally a waste of time and effort (at least for atolls; sometimes you can invade non-atoll bases in a big way and do some good stuff).  For the Allies in '42 it's all about stealth and speed and surgical strikes and patience.  The weighted blows usually come later.

I will practice patience. I have been a war gamer since the Apple II era (just dated myself). Used to just diving into the heat of the battle. I hope I have not damaged myself too early in the game. Don't really want to start over again (on 3rd time), too many hours invested!

[bradfordkay]

ORIGINAL: msudrala8

You see transport convoy of supply/fuel? Sink it with your Carriers.
[/quote]
Started doing some of this. Would like to expand out with US TF carriers and Surface combat TF's. Can these be rearmed and sorties rearmed from all allied bases?

[/quote]


An emphatic NO! You should review the rules and charts in the manual at 20.1.2.2 which tells you what size port is required for each specific weapon. As you will see from the chart, adding naval support at a port can help significantly.