Matrix Games

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My Lord parusski

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Ohhhh come on! The Marxist historians know too well that the German army was already in deeeeep sh*t in December 1941. Not a single british bomb had been dropped on oil fields yet and USA was not even at war.

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ORIGINAL: rogo727

70th Infantry Division
Nicknamed the "white Bread Division" because most of its 7500 soldiers had stomach problems and required special diets, this static division was mustered in on Walcheren Island Holland, on July 17.1944. Cadres of the 165th Reserve Division were also transferred to the division, along with the division were also transferred to the divison, along with the divisional staff, 5th reserve Artillery Regiment. The grenadier battalionss of the 70th were former security battalions. In November 1944 it was attacked by the 1st Canadian Army. The ailing soldiers fought well as it took Montgomery's vetern forces nine days to defeat them.

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ORIGINAL: parusski

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ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

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ORIGINAL: warspite1


Edit: can't spell

Nate will never let you live this down.

And Steiner, at my age I ALWAYS need a nap!

I could not care less about the discussion. I MUST know what warspite1 mistyped. Does anyone have proof of a mistake he made??? There will be a great reward for such information.

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THERE IS BUT ONE & ONLY ONE MEANS TO PROVE YOUR NAIVE & INEBRIATED ASSERTIONS;

HOSTED BY THE ILLUSTRIOUS;
http://www.vassalengine.org/

ONE MINOR STIPULATION WILL BE ADDED.....(DRUMROLL)...THE US WILL REMAIN NEUTRAL THE WHOLE WAR!! DO U DARE TO ACCEPT THIS HIDEOUS & GLORIOUS CHALLENGE? (MUSES THE SPINNER TO THE FLY).

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Well, that would be tempting if I had 3 -4 years to spend.....the last game I had was pacific only, without vassal, and it took 18 months.

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ORIGINAL: rogo727

I see that you were just playing with me nd that's just fine. Your opinion is just that an opinion that almost defies all logic. And if logic dictates reason then the only conclusion can be without the west, Germany wouldn't have been defeated. Take US and the Uk out and you have a statement . Back and forth. You post I post. Let's find some common ground,
Exit stage............right

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ORIGINAL: SLAAKMAN

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My Lord parusski

THERE IS BUT ONE & ONLY ONE MEANS TO PROVE YOUR NAIVE & INEBRIATED ASSERTIONS;

HOSTED BY THE ILLUSTRIOUS;
http://www.vassalengine.org/

ONE MINOR STIPULATION WILL BE ADDED.....(DRUMROLL)...THE US WILL REMAIN NEUTRAL THE WHOLE WAR!! DO U DARE TO ACCEPT THIS HIDEOUS & GLORIOUS CHALLENGE? (MUSES THE SPINNER TO THE FLY).

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ORIGINAL: Treale

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ORIGINAL: rogo727

I see that you were just playing with me nd that's just fine. Your opinion is just that an opinion that almost defies all logic. And if logic dictates reason then the only conclusion can be without the west, Germany wouldn't have been defeated. Take US and the Uk out and you have a statement . Back and forth. You post I post. Let's find some common ground,
Exit stage............right

Logic! Did Spock enter this discussion?

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SLAAKMAN, you throw down a gauntlet. You should know that I, a hero for Germany, want to think my country could win against the red horde. But we can't.

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ORIGINAL: SLAAKMAN

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SLAAKMAN, you throw down a gauntlet. You should know that I, a hero for Germany, want to think my country could win against the red horde. But we can't.

WHAT YOU MEAN "WE" PALEFACE? THE MIGHTY SLAAKATTAK ALLIANCE OF ITALY, GERMANY & JAPAN (& FINLAND, RUMANIA, HUNGARY, BOHEMIA, SPAIN & YUGOSLAVIA) WILL CRUSH YOUR EVIL SOVIET-ANGLO-SINO-FRANCO-HINDU ABOMINATION INTO THE GUTTER!! NIM DEINE WAFFE SOLDAT!

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WHAT YOU MEAN "WE" PALEFACE? THE MIGHTY SLAAKATTAK ALLIANCE OF ITALY, GERMANY & JAPAN (& FINLAND, RUMANIA, HUNGARY, BOHEMIA, SPAIN & YUGOSLAVIA) WILL CRUSH YOUR EVIL SOVIET-ANGLO-SINO-FRANCO-HINDU ABOMINATION INTO THE GUTTER!! NIM DEINE WAFFE SOLDAT!

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ORIGINAL: nate25

OT - But is World In Flames available as a computer wargame?

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ORIGINAL: parusski

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ORIGINAL: Treale

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ORIGINAL: rogo727

I see that you were just playing with me nd that's just fine. Your opinion is just that an opinion that almost defies all logic. And if logic dictates reason then the only conclusion can be without the west, Germany wouldn't have been defeated. Take US and the Uk out and you have a statement . Back and forth. You post I post. Let's find some common ground,
Exit stage............right

Logic! Did Spock enter this discussion?

LOL, rogo727 may be Spock.

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ORIGINAL: nate25

Thanks HB.

I knew Matrix was developing a variant, but was not sure if there was a predecessor ( ex. WitP - WitpAE).

I see guys talking about it, so it must be played some other way than the board game?

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Are you crazy today??? I want to win too, but the red menace beat me once. You think you can do better????

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ORIGINAL: SLAAKMAN

My Lord Parruski,

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Are you crazy today??? I want to win too, but the red menace beat me once. You think you can do better????

DID YOU NOT HEAR ME SOLDAT??! NO MORE LAME, HOGWASH, MISTACHICKEN EXCUSES. I SAID PICK UP THAT WEAPON & CHAAAAAAAARGE!! GO TO VASSAL AT ONCE & PREPARE THE EVIL ALLIED ABOMINATION FOR OCCUPATION! MAYBE ILL EVEN LET THE US SEND U LEND-LEASE, ON OCCASION. AAAAAHH, THE SMELL OF VICTORY IS ALMOST BITTERSWEET!

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ORIGINAL: parusski

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ORIGINAL: SLAAKMAN

My Lord Parruski,

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Are you crazy today??? I want to win too, but the red menace beat me once. You think you can do better????

DID YOU NOT HEAR ME SOLDAT??! NO MORE LAME, HOGWASH, MISTACHICKEN EXCUSES. I SAID PICK UP THAT WEAPON & CHAAAAAAAARGE!! GO TO VASSAL AT ONCE & PREPARE THE EVIL ALLIED ABOMINATION FOR OCCUPATION! MAYBE ILL EVEN LET THE US SEND U LEND-LEASE, ON OCCASION. AAAAAHH, THE SMELL OF VICTORY IS ALMOST BITTERSWEET!

UUUUUHHHH. I think I will back down. I have no time to get into another game.

But someday I am going to lick your ass.

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ORIGINAL: sulla05

Glantz is hardly an author to use to back up many things. Most people consider his books " written from the Soviet point of view ".

They are good reads and full of information but their slant is obvious.

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But there was constant cheer-leading(and rightfully so) of what "our boys" are doing to win against the "Nazis". And when the war ended all the books about the war in Russia were written from the German point of view. And that point of view was slanted. The Germans wanted to prove to the world that the Russians were clumsy, stupid, wasteful...and Germany lost because of Mr. Frost or that "corporal".

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ORIGINAL: sulla05

I wasn't talking about Soviet vs western slant. I was talking about German vs. Soviet.

The German army did some horrible things on the Russian front, other places as well. But that does not mean that having a anti-nazi way of thinking should cloud your judgement of the capabilities of the German army.

Glantz,especially in his Kursk book, denigrates the German forces and commanders. At least in my reading of that book and a few others it seems that he takes for granted that the Soviet archives are unbiased while he always questions any German sources. Especially when he talks about German commanders recollections. I am not saying that they are completely truthful by any means. I just think he should doubt both written records, to a degree.

There is no doubt in my mind that the German army if allowed to fight a war of manuever would have bled Russia dry.

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ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

I am currently reading Operation Barbarossa. One thing I am not clear on is why Hitler attacked Russia in the first place. If anyone can enlighten me I'd be grateful.

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ORIGINAL: Adolph Hitler
My Deputies! Men of the Reichstag!

When I became aware of the possibility of a threat to the east of the Reich in 1940 through [secret] reports from the British House of Commons and by observations of Soviet Russian troop movements on our frontiers, I immediately ordered the formation of many new armored, motorized and infantry divisions. The human and material resources for them were abundantly available. [In this regard] I can make only one promise to you, my deputies, and to the entire German nation: while people in democratic countries understandably talk a lot about armaments, in National Socialist Germany all the more will actually be produced. It has been that way in the past, and it is not any different now. Whenever decisive action has to be taken, we will have, with each passing year, more and, above all, better quality weapons.

We realized very clearly that under no circumstances could we allow the enemy the opportunity to strike first into our heart. Nevertheless, in this case the decision [to attack Soviet Russia] was a very difficult one. When the writers for the democratic newspapers now declare that I would have thought twice before attacking if I had known the strength of the Bolshevik adversaries, they show that they do not understand either the situation or me.

I have not sought war. To the contrary, I have done everything to avoid conflict. But I would forget my duty and my conscience if I were to do nothing in spite of the realization that a conflict had become unavoidable. Because I regarded Soviet Russia as the gravest danger not only for the German Reich but for all of Europe, I decided, if possible, to give the order myself to attack a few days before the outbreak of this conflict.

A truly impressive amount of authentic material is now available which confirms that a Soviet Russian attack was intended. We are also sure about when this attack was to take place. In view of this danger, the extent of which we are perhaps only now truly aware, I can only thank the Lord God that He enlightened me in time, and has given me the strength to do what must be done. Millions of German soldiers may thank Him for their lives, and all of Europe for its existence.

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ORIGINAL: sulla05

No, not you I meant specifically Glantz.

Since you brought up Hoth , here is one thing from Glantz.

He believes that it was the Soviets who forced the Germans to turn toward Prokhorovka. It is there in black and white that Hoth had always planned to turn to right toward there and take on the Russian tank army.

Like I said, do not get me wrong. His books are both enjoyable and fact filled. It is only when he is saying " this is what general so-and-so was thinking here " etc. that I have some issues with his books.