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RE: Operation Barbarossa

 
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RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 4:04:36 AM   
SLAAKMAN


Posts: 2808
Joined: 7/24/2002
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quote:

My Lord parusski

THERE IS BUT ONE & ONLY ONE MEANS TO PROVE YOUR NAIVE & INEBRIATED ASSERTIONS;

HOSTED BY THE ILLUSTRIOUS;
http://www.vassalengine.org/

ONE MINOR STIPULATION WILL BE ADDED.....(DRUMROLL)...THE US WILL REMAIN NEUTRAL THE WHOLE WAR!! DO U DARE TO ACCEPT THIS HIDEOUS & GLORIOUS CHALLENGE? (MUSES THE SPINNER TO THE FLY).


_____________________________

Germany's unforgivable crime before the Second World War was her attempt to extricate her economy from the world's trading system and to create her own exchange mechanism which would deny world finance its opportunity to profit.
— Winston Churchill

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 121
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 4:13:53 AM   
SLAAKMAN


Posts: 2808
Joined: 7/24/2002
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quote:

Ohhhh come on! The Marxist historians know too well that the German army was already in deeeeep sh*t in December 1941. Not a single british bomb had been dropped on oil fields yet and USA was not even at war.

I believe the war wouldve been a stalemate for 20 years had the US remained neutral and Japan only attack British, French & Dutch colonies in Asia. Maybe even Elvis wouldve been performing USO shows for Russia, Britain, Germany, Italy & Japan in 1959!

_____________________________

Germany's unforgivable crime before the Second World War was her attempt to extricate her economy from the world's trading system and to create her own exchange mechanism which would deny world finance its opportunity to profit.
— Winston Churchill

(in reply to SLAAKMAN)
Post #: 122
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 4:34:50 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 17204
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

70th Infantry Division
Nicknamed the "white Bread Division" because most of its 7500 soldiers had stomach problems and required special diets, this static division was mustered in on Walcheren Island Holland, on July 17.1944. Cadres of the 165th Reserve Division were also transferred to the division, along with the division were also transferred to the divison, along with the divisional staff, 5th reserve Artillery Regiment. The grenadier battalionss of the 70th were former security battalions. In November 1944 it was attacked by the 1st Canadian Army. The ailing soldiers fought well as it took Montgomery's vetern forces nine days to defeat them.
Warspite1

Okay - thank-you.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 123
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 4:35:58 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 17204
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


Edit: can't spell



Nate will never let you live this down.

And Steiner, at my age I ALWAYS need a nap!


I could not care less about the discussion. I MUST know what warspite1 mistyped. Does anyone have proof of a mistake he made??? There will be a great reward for such information.
Warspite1

Er..post 99


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to parusski)
Post #: 124
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 11:00:24 AM   
HanBarca


Posts: 481
Joined: 8/6/2002
From: Italy
Status: offline
quote:

THERE IS BUT ONE & ONLY ONE MEANS TO PROVE YOUR NAIVE & INEBRIATED ASSERTIONS;

HOSTED BY THE ILLUSTRIOUS;
http://www.vassalengine.org/

ONE MINOR STIPULATION WILL BE ADDED.....(DRUMROLL)...THE US WILL REMAIN NEUTRAL THE WHOLE WAR!! DO U DARE TO ACCEPT THIS HIDEOUS & GLORIOUS CHALLENGE? (MUSES THE SPINNER TO THE FLY).


Well, that would be tempting if I had 3 -4 years to spend.....the last game I had was pacific only, without vassal, and it took 18 months.

_____________________________

H. Barca,
Surplus Consuls Dispatcher

(in reply to SLAAKMAN)
Post #: 125
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 1:32:43 PM   
SLAAKMAN


Posts: 2808
Joined: 7/24/2002
Status: offline
quote:

Well, that would be tempting if I had 3 -4 years to spend.....the last game I had was pacific only, without vassal, and it took 18 months.

Aint life too short? Make the time for it you maggot!! I dont wanna hear all these lame excuses for shirking your duty!! Get your bongos onto the battlefield right now. Capiche?!

_____________________________

Germany's unforgivable crime before the Second World War was her attempt to extricate her economy from the world's trading system and to create her own exchange mechanism which would deny world finance its opportunity to profit.
— Winston Churchill

(in reply to HanBarca)
Post #: 126
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 2:21:48 PM   
Treale


Posts: 1254
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I see that you were just playing with me nd that's just fine. Your opinion is just that an opinion that almost defies all logic. And if logic dictates reason then the only conclusion can be without the west, Germany wouldn't have been defeated. Take US and the Uk out and you have a statement . Back and forth. You post I post. Let's find some common ground,
Exit stage............right


Logic! Did Spock enter this discussion?

_____________________________

Tony

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 127
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 2:45:30 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4608
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: SLAAKMAN

quote:

My Lord parusski

THERE IS BUT ONE & ONLY ONE MEANS TO PROVE YOUR NAIVE & INEBRIATED ASSERTIONS;

HOSTED BY THE ILLUSTRIOUS;
http://www.vassalengine.org/

ONE MINOR STIPULATION WILL BE ADDED.....(DRUMROLL)...THE US WILL REMAIN NEUTRAL THE WHOLE WAR!! DO U DARE TO ACCEPT THIS HIDEOUS & GLORIOUS CHALLENGE? (MUSES THE SPINNER TO THE FLY).



SLAAKMAN, you throw down a gauntlet. You should know that I, a hero for Germany, want to think my country could win against the red horde. But we can't.


_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to SLAAKMAN)
Post #: 128
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 2:46:32 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4608
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Treale


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I see that you were just playing with me nd that's just fine. Your opinion is just that an opinion that almost defies all logic. And if logic dictates reason then the only conclusion can be without the west, Germany wouldn't have been defeated. Take US and the Uk out and you have a statement . Back and forth. You post I post. Let's find some common ground,
Exit stage............right


Logic! Did Spock enter this discussion?


LOL, rogo727 may be Spock.

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to Treale)
Post #: 129
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 3:03:38 PM   
SLAAKMAN


Posts: 2808
Joined: 7/24/2002
Status: offline
quote:


SLAAKMAN, you throw down a gauntlet. You should know that I, a hero for Germany, want to think my country could win against the red horde. But we can't.

WHAT YOU MEAN "WE" PALEFACE? THE MIGHTY SLAAKATTAK ALLIANCE OF ITALY, GERMANY & JAPAN (& FINLAND, RUMANIA, HUNGARY, BOHEMIA, SPAIN & YUGOSLAVIA) WILL CRUSH YOUR EVIL SOVIET-ANGLO-SINO-FRANCO-HINDU ABOMINATION INTO THE GUTTER!! NIM DEINE WAFFE SOLDAT!





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Germany's unforgivable crime before the Second World War was her attempt to extricate her economy from the world's trading system and to create her own exchange mechanism which would deny world finance its opportunity to profit.
— Winston Churchill

(in reply to parusski)
Post #: 130
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 3:06:06 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4608
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: SLAAKMAN

quote:


SLAAKMAN, you throw down a gauntlet. You should know that I, a hero for Germany, want to think my country could win against the red horde. But we can't.

WHAT YOU MEAN "WE" PALEFACE? THE MIGHTY SLAAKATTAK ALLIANCE OF ITALY, GERMANY & JAPAN (& FINLAND, RUMANIA, HUNGARY, BOHEMIA, SPAIN & YUGOSLAVIA) WILL CRUSH YOUR EVIL SOVIET-ANGLO-SINO-FRANCO-HINDU ABOMINATION INTO THE GUTTER!! NIM DEINE WAFFE SOLDAT!






Are you crazy today??? I want to win too, but the red menace beat me once. You think you can do better????

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to SLAAKMAN)
Post #: 131
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 3:28:51 PM   
HanBarca


Posts: 481
Joined: 8/6/2002
From: Italy
Status: offline
quote:

WHAT YOU MEAN "WE" PALEFACE? THE MIGHTY SLAAKATTAK ALLIANCE OF ITALY, GERMANY & JAPAN (& FINLAND, RUMANIA, HUNGARY, BOHEMIA, SPAIN & YUGOSLAVIA) WILL CRUSH YOUR EVIL SOVIET-ANGLO-SINO-FRANCO-HINDU ABOMINATION INTO THE GUTTER!! NIM DEINE WAFFE SOLDAT!


I like the idea of the soviet-franco-hindu abomination

_____________________________

H. Barca,
Surplus Consuls Dispatcher

(in reply to SLAAKMAN)
Post #: 132
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 3:33:35 PM   
nate25


Posts: 1378
Joined: 9/20/2011
From: Fishers Indiana
Status: offline
OT - But is World In Flames available as a computer wargame?

_____________________________

I have a subtle and cunning plan.

(in reply to HanBarca)
Post #: 133
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 3:39:25 PM   
HanBarca


Posts: 481
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From: Italy
Status: offline
I think it's still a beta, but in any case it will probably be so buggy to be unplayable

_____________________________

H. Barca,
Surplus Consuls Dispatcher

(in reply to nate25)
Post #: 134
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 3:44:20 PM   
nate25


Posts: 1378
Joined: 9/20/2011
From: Fishers Indiana
Status: offline
Thanks HB.

I knew Matrix was developing a variant, but was not sure if there was a predecessor ( ex. WitP - WitpAE).

I see guys talking about it, so it must be played some other way than the board game?

_____________________________

I have a subtle and cunning plan.

(in reply to HanBarca)
Post #: 135
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 4:28:31 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4608
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25

OT - But is World In Flames available as a computer wargame?


Where the hell have you been???

Oh yeah, living on the general discussion thread.

Get around nate. Do some exploring. Matrix even has games, one is free.

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to nate25)
Post #: 136
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 4:55:59 PM   
nate25


Posts: 1378
Joined: 9/20/2011
From: Fishers Indiana
Status: offline
Thanks, geek.

You're about as helpful as a screendoor on a submarine.

_____________________________

I have a subtle and cunning plan.

(in reply to parusski)
Post #: 137
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 5:34:28 PM   
sulla05

 

Posts: 1095
Joined: 1/11/2005
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Glantz is hardly an author to use to back up many things. Most people consider his books " written from the Soviet point of view ".

They are good reads and full of information but their slant is obvious.

_____________________________

Windows 7 home premium 64
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Di! Ecce hora! Uxor mea me necabit!

(in reply to nate25)
Post #: 138
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 5:35:53 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 1401
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski


quote:

ORIGINAL: Treale


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I see that you were just playing with me nd that's just fine. Your opinion is just that an opinion that almost defies all logic. And if logic dictates reason then the only conclusion can be without the west, Germany wouldn't have been defeated. Take US and the Uk out and you have a statement . Back and forth. You post I post. Let's find some common ground,
Exit stage............right


Logic! Did Spock enter this discussion?


LOL, rogo727 may be Spock.

Illogical .....

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to parusski)
Post #: 139
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 6:59:54 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 17204
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25

Thanks HB.

I knew Matrix was developing a variant, but was not sure if there was a predecessor ( ex. WitP - WitpAE).

I see guys talking about it, so it must be played some other way than the board game?
Warspite1

natester - there was a forerunner. It was not done by Matrix and was frankly a bit...er...rubbish, although some people on the MWIF forum have played it. Its MWIF we need as this is pretty much a faithful reproduction of the ADG game - with lots of hot gypsies thrown in.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to nate25)
Post #: 140
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 7:02:06 PM   
SLAAKMAN


Posts: 2808
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Status: offline
My Lord Parruski,
quote:

Are you crazy today??? I want to win too, but the red menace beat me once. You think you can do better????

DID YOU NOT HEAR ME SOLDAT??! NO MORE LAME, HOGWASH, MISTACHICKEN EXCUSES. I SAID PICK UP THAT WEAPON & CHAAAAAAAARGE!! GO TO VASSAL AT ONCE & PREPARE THE EVIL ALLIED ABOMINATION FOR OCCUPATION! MAYBE ILL EVEN LET THE US SEND U LEND-LEASE, ON OCCASION. AAAAAHH, THE SMELL OF VICTORY IS ALMOST BITTERSWEET!

_____________________________

Germany's unforgivable crime before the Second World War was her attempt to extricate her economy from the world's trading system and to create her own exchange mechanism which would deny world finance its opportunity to profit.
— Winston Churchill

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 141
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 7:17:11 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4608
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: SLAAKMAN

My Lord Parruski,
quote:

Are you crazy today??? I want to win too, but the red menace beat me once. You think you can do better????

DID YOU NOT HEAR ME SOLDAT??! NO MORE LAME, HOGWASH, MISTACHICKEN EXCUSES. I SAID PICK UP THAT WEAPON & CHAAAAAAAARGE!! GO TO VASSAL AT ONCE & PREPARE THE EVIL ALLIED ABOMINATION FOR OCCUPATION! MAYBE ILL EVEN LET THE US SEND U LEND-LEASE, ON OCCASION. AAAAAHH, THE SMELL OF VICTORY IS ALMOST BITTERSWEET!


UUUUUHHHH. I think I will back down. I have no time to get into another game.

But someday I am going to kick your ass.

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to SLAAKMAN)
Post #: 142
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 7:21:18 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 17204
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski


quote:

ORIGINAL: SLAAKMAN

My Lord Parruski,
quote:

Are you crazy today??? I want to win too, but the red menace beat me once. You think you can do better????

DID YOU NOT HEAR ME SOLDAT??! NO MORE LAME, HOGWASH, MISTACHICKEN EXCUSES. I SAID PICK UP THAT WEAPON & CHAAAAAAAARGE!! GO TO VASSAL AT ONCE & PREPARE THE EVIL ALLIED ABOMINATION FOR OCCUPATION! MAYBE ILL EVEN LET THE US SEND U LEND-LEASE, ON OCCASION. AAAAAHH, THE SMELL OF VICTORY IS ALMOST BITTERSWEET!


UUUUUHHHH. I think I will back down. I have no time to get into another game.

But someday I am going to lick your ass.
Warspite1

Steiner! - there's no room for that on the forum

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to parusski)
Post #: 143
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 7:32:25 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4608
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: sulla05

Glantz is hardly an author to use to back up many things. Most people consider his books " written from the Soviet point of view ".

They are good reads and full of information but their slant is obvious.


I am not sure that "most people" do consider the books slanted. The west, for decades, had a "slant". And that was all about, well, the west. It has not been that long ago that Soviet archives were opened to western writers. Much has been learned, especially in the areas of operations and strategy. One big discovery has been that the Soviets did not constantly use human waves. The Russians did use those tactics, especially early in the war, but it did not take long until more sophisticated battle plans were being used. The west only knew of a war in Russia in an abstract sense. There was no real understanding of the space or numbers involved. But there was constant cheer-leading(and rightfully so) of what "our boys" are doing to win against the "Nazis". And when the war ended all the books about the war in Russia were written from the German point of view. And that point of view was slanted. The Germans wanted to prove to the world that the Russians were clumsy, stupid, wasteful...and Germany lost because of Mr. Frost or that "corporal".

The point is the West really had no idea that Russia was as much a sleeping giant as America was. And until recently, I too always thought in terms of "America won the war". America did win; totally against Japan. Against Germany, we won in France and Western Germany. And yes we helped speed up the Russian advance, but...

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to sulla05)
Post #: 144
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 8:36:43 PM   
SLAAKMAN


Posts: 2808
Joined: 7/24/2002
Status: offline
quote:

But there was constant cheer-leading(and rightfully so) of what "our boys" are doing to win against the "Nazis". And when the war ended all the books about the war in Russia were written from the German point of view. And that point of view was slanted. The Germans wanted to prove to the world that the Russians were clumsy, stupid, wasteful...and Germany lost because of Mr. Frost or that "corporal".

I BLAME YOU FOR THIS DISCREPANCY. YOU WILL NOW OBEY MY EDICTS AS A DISCIPLE. LOAD UP THE CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY!! YOU WILL NOW LEARN WHY YOU FEAR THE NIGHT O BRAVE PARUSSKI, FOR I AM THE WELLSPRING FROM WHICH U FLOW!!

http://www.russiancampaign.com/Site/Welcome.html





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Germany's unforgivable crime before the Second World War was her attempt to extricate her economy from the world's trading system and to create her own exchange mechanism which would deny world finance its opportunity to profit.
— Winston Churchill

(in reply to parusski)
Post #: 145
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 10:19:22 PM   
sulla05

 

Posts: 1095
Joined: 1/11/2005
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I wasn't talking about Soviet vs western slant. I was talking about German vs. Soviet.

The German army did some horrible things on the Russian front, other places as well. But that does not mean that having a anti-nazi way of thinking should cloud your judgement of the capabilities of the German army.

Glantz,especially in his Kursk book, denigrates the German forces and commanders. At least in my reading of that book and a few others it seems that he takes for granted that the Soviet archives are unbiased while he always questions any German sources. Especially when he talks about German commanders recollections. I am not saying that they are completely truthful by any means. I just think he should doubt both written records, to a degree.

There is no doubt in my mind that the German army if allowed to fight a war of manuever would have bled Russia dry.

_____________________________

Windows 7 home premium 64
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Di! Ecce hora! Uxor mea me necabit!

(in reply to SLAAKMAN)
Post #: 146
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 10:41:35 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4608
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: sulla05

I wasn't talking about Soviet vs western slant. I was talking about German vs. Soviet.

The German army did some horrible things on the Russian front, other places as well. But that does not mean that having a anti-nazi way of thinking should cloud your judgement of the capabilities of the German army.

Glantz,especially in his Kursk book, denigrates the German forces and commanders. At least in my reading of that book and a few others it seems that he takes for granted that the Soviet archives are unbiased while he always questions any German sources. Especially when he talks about German commanders recollections. I am not saying that they are completely truthful by any means. I just think he should doubt both written records, to a degree.

There is no doubt in my mind that the German army if allowed to fight a war of manuever would have bled Russia dry.


I think people who don't know me fail to understand that I am PRO-German(cool military stuff).[Not sure if you meant me].

Now as to the freedom to fight as wanted by Hoth, Guderian and Bock, then maybe, just maybe things would have turned out differently.

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to sulla05)
Post #: 147
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 11:29:42 PM   
E

 

Posts: 782
Joined: 9/20/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

I am currently reading Operation Barbarossa. One thing I am not clear on is why Hitler attacked Russia in the first place. If anyone can enlighten me I'd be grateful.



Ask Adolph! The following is an excerpt from his speech to the Reichstag on December 11, 1941 (in which he also declares war on the USA)...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adolph Hitler
My Deputies! Men of the Reichstag!

When I became aware of the possibility of a threat to the east of the Reich in 1940 through [secret] reports from the British House of Commons and by observations of Soviet Russian troop movements on our frontiers, I immediately ordered the formation of many new armored, motorized and infantry divisions. The human and material resources for them were abundantly available. [In this regard] I can make only one promise to you, my deputies, and to the entire German nation: while people in democratic countries understandably talk a lot about armaments, in National Socialist Germany all the more will actually be produced. It has been that way in the past, and it is not any different now. Whenever decisive action has to be taken, we will have, with each passing year, more and, above all, better quality weapons.

We realized very clearly that under no circumstances could we allow the enemy the opportunity to strike first into our heart. Nevertheless, in this case the decision [to attack Soviet Russia] was a very difficult one. When the writers for the democratic newspapers now declare that I would have thought twice before attacking if I had known the strength of the Bolshevik adversaries, they show that they do not understand either the situation or me.

I have not sought war. To the contrary, I have done everything to avoid conflict. But I would forget my duty and my conscience if I were to do nothing in spite of the realization that a conflict had become unavoidable. Because I regarded Soviet Russia as the gravest danger not only for the German Reich but for all of Europe, I decided, if possible, to give the order myself to attack a few days before the outbreak of this conflict.

A truly impressive amount of authentic material is now available which confirms that a Soviet Russian attack was intended. We are also sure about when this attack was to take place. In view of this danger, the extent of which we are perhaps only now truly aware, I can only thank the Lord God that He enlightened me in time, and has given me the strength to do what must be done. Millions of German soldiers may thank Him for their lives, and all of Europe for its existence.


To sum up... god told him to attack Russia.



_____________________________

("Looser" is the opposite of "tighter")

(in reply to ilovestrategy)
Post #: 148
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/8/2012 11:29:54 PM   
sulla05

 

Posts: 1095
Joined: 1/11/2005
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No, not you I meant specifically Glantz.

Since you brought up Hoth , here is one thing from Glantz.

He believes that it was the Soviets who forced the Germans to turn toward Prokhorovka. It is there in black and white that Hoth had always planned to turn to right toward there and take on the Russian tank army.

Like I said, do not get me wrong. His books are both enjoyable and fact filled. It is only when he is saying " this is what general so-and-so was thinking here " etc. that I have some issues with his books.

_____________________________

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(in reply to parusski)
Post #: 149
RE: Operation Barbarossa - 5/9/2012 12:29:03 AM   
parusski


Posts: 4608
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sulla05

No, not you I meant specifically Glantz.

Since you brought up Hoth , here is one thing from Glantz.

He believes that it was the Soviets who forced the Germans to turn toward Prokhorovka. It is there in black and white that Hoth had always planned to turn to right toward there and take on the Russian tank army.

Like I said, do not get me wrong. His books are both enjoyable and fact filled. It is only when he is saying " this is what general so-and-so was thinking here " etc. that I have some issues with his books.


My oh my. Now for the big guns.

As Ambrose wrote in THE seminal: WHO REALLY WON THE WAR IN EUROPE? "Because of the pitiful state of education in America and Britain, westerners have the retarded idea that had aid not been given to Russia, Germany would have rolled all the way to Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, a mere 8,600 kilometers from Berlin. But this was not possible. Sensible, intelligent people understand that Russia had the willpower and arms to stop the Nazi horde. The Soviet Union was so mighty that they only used 10% of their industrial capacity to build the machinery of war. Besides, less than 1% of all aid promised actually reached the Soviets".

There, no better authority than Ambrose.

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to sulla05)
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