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Comments on '42 or '43 Start?

 
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Comments on '42 or '43 Start? - 5/2/2012 1:43:48 AM   
dukewacoan

 

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I'd like to get recommendation on a PBEM game using either the '42 or '43 starts of the campaign from anyone who has attempted them.

I guess the bottom line is do they turn into pretty much static games or not? Overall balance, etc?

I'm not wild about starting another in '41 because of the tendency that the game gets skewed to the point that by early '42 the outcome is inevitable either way.
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RE: Comments on '42 or '43 Start? - 5/2/2012 9:44:51 AM   
janh

 

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I don't think either of them will turn entirely static, but both probably will show an idle phase or a phase with only limited action as the Red Army will be build up between 43 and 44. Just natural.

If you want a real challenge, even against AI, play the 1942 start. In a PBEM GC the Axis player probably would have bailed the game with the Wehrmacht in that shape. Imagine if this would be the typical state an Axis player would go into July 42... Almost all divisions in the AGN sector are around 50% ToE, Panzers included. Towards AGS things look up, but the majority of the units is still around or below 80% ToE. AGS is poised to spring the trap and can go forward for at least a couple of turns, and Svevastopol is enclosed, too.

Numerous Panzer and Mot. Divs. are shells of their former self (40-50% ToE), a "living" account of how desperate and attriting the autumn offensives and the blizzard fighting must have been. The Russians are also rather weak, but at least the are numerically much superior in contrast to most 41 GC games. There is the Demyansk pocket (German), which looks particularly scary -- I don't think with the present blizzard rules such a pocket is likely to be formed and held by the Axis (but since playing in modern times is different, i.e. more conservative and casualty-avoiding, than fighting desperately with your land and career on the line, I understand the need for some blizzard rules else the Axis wouldn't fight itself to frazzles and overextend to be ripe for the Russian counterstrike).
There is another pocket N of Smolensk (Russian), which is ripe for harvesting, but you'll find the Germans need good dice rolls to get that done with the weakened units they have in AGC.

I only played the 43 GC start once for a few turns, but I will return there later. Against AI, you can pull off another limited offensive, but just not against the Kursk salient itself. Wehrmacht is in much better shape, but the Red Army disproportionately stronger as well it felt. The anchors N and S of the salient appear to be much weaker, but my Panzer's and Landers lacked the power to break through and gain operational freedom in the depth -- plus Soviet AI decided to go on the offensive as well. In a PBEM game, I would probably not go on the offensive on a strategic scale anymore. The Panzers are just more valuable for blunting Soviet attacks, and I would retire in some areas to shorten front lines, look for better terrain and start fortifying for the next years. This will likely lead to short passive phase until the Red Army can really start large-scale offensives of its own. I would say that the 43 start has a temptation of its own.

< Message edited by janh -- 5/2/2012 9:47:41 AM >

(in reply to dukewacoan)
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RE: Comments on '42 or '43 Start? - 5/2/2012 10:48:55 AM   
delatbabel


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PBEM?

The 1942 game is completely unplayable against a human opponent. Don't attempt it as the Soviets especially, despite the apparent frailty of the German units you'll get wiped off the map. The fact that a large portion of your army is in static mode, and you don't have the APs to pull it out, simply means it will get surrounded and wiped before you get to move it.

The 1943 game is a pretty good challenge, I have played it 4 times F2F and twice by PBEM. I haven't got bored with it yet but it's a bit easy against the AI so I usually reserve it as my F2F campaign of choice. The choice for the Germans is to go on the attack at Kursk, it's possible to break through the Russian lines and pocket the entire Kursk salient on the first turn, but you'll find that winning that battle costs you the game. The Russian counter-offensive is strong enough, with heaps of mech corps and arty corps that your pocketing troops will get counter-pocketed and you won't have the strength to break out (my previous opponents have had to commit 3 SS divisions to create the pocket). When those high strength divisions get crunched in the counter-pocket, they don't come back and it's game over for you. Best option for the Germans appears to be a limited offensive north of Kursk, followed by a fighting withdrawal. The Russian forces aren't yet strong enough to really crush you if you stay in a fortified line with strong rear defenses, and you'll probably end up with a minor victory or a draw by 1945 if you play right.

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RE: Comments on '42 or '43 Start? - 5/2/2012 12:00:54 PM   
Flaviusx


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Yeah, 42 is bad for the Sovs due to having half or more of your army on static mode, something which is just plain suicide. The Red Army dies due to immobility and AP starvation.

If somebody went in and edited out all the static modes it might be an interesting scenario, though. As it presently stands, it's not fit for PBEM.

The 43 scenario is my favorite.

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RE: Comments on '42 or '43 Start? - 5/2/2012 1:52:59 PM   
Klydon

 

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If you want a brutal start as the Germans in 42, set the Russian admin up to 110. (Unlimited admin points). You will immediately be faced with a pile of rifle corps all across the front. This in conjunction with a lot of your army in static mode is going to make it rough.

Flav, I am afraid even if someone went through and made changes to the 42 scenario, it would probably be a waste of time as the community has repeatedly shown they are not interested in player mods.

(in reply to Flaviusx)
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RE: Comments on '42 or '43 Start? - 5/2/2012 3:13:09 PM   
dukewacoan

 

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I played some against the computer and noticed a fair number of Germans in static mode as well.

I was thinking of trying some edits that rearranged the German Panzer reserves to allow more options in terms of offensive direction from the start.

(in reply to Klydon)
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