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RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/2/2012 11:42:51 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 924
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Again let me STRESS the fact NOone is asking for the cost of the unit. What we are asking for is the number of units sold.


Doesn't matter, Matrixgames said NO.

agreed and enough said.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 31
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/3/2012 1:29:01 AM   
PizzaMan


Posts: 205
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Erik,
Why is it so double secret to release the number of units sold?


For all you would be pretend retailers who questioned my comments above. This is never going to be disclosed.

Revenue (but not by item) do have to be reported for corporations via 10k form. Item sales are the exclusive property of the owners/management team.

(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 32
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/3/2012 1:57:33 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Maybe what would be better but just as informative is if Matrix say roughly what the average wargame in units would shift over two or three years, or what they'd expect. That solves any games being made. Just an average expectation of a typical wargame.

I know I kno we wont get this, but I can't see a problem with this with regards to confidentiality.

< Message edited by wodin -- 5/3/2012 1:58:28 AM >

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Post #: 33
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/3/2012 2:34:06 AM   
rogo727


Posts: 924
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PizzaMan


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Erik,
Why is it so double secret to release the number of units sold?


For all you would be pretend retailers who questioned my comments above. This is never going to be disclosed.

Revenue (but not by item) do have to be reported for corporations via 10k form. Item sales are the exclusive property of the owners/management team.

I'm guessing that is directed towards me. I have worked in the grocery industry for well over 25 years. You posted something that was false. I corrected you. Again I never asked for how much money matrix makes off a game. I only wanted to know how many units they sold, why is that so hard to understand? Erik said no. Let's drop this please.

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to PizzaMan)
Post #: 34
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/3/2012 2:41:10 AM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 1430
Joined: 2/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Maybe what would be better but just as informative is if Matrix say roughly what the average wargame in units would shift over two or three years, or what they'd expect. That solves any games being made. Just an average expectation of a typical wargame.
.


That is covered by Erik's earlier statement. Where they think the "average wargame", (what is that anyway.), in units will shift over the next month, year, whatever, is not our business.

It doesn't matter in whatever creative way it's asked, the answer is the same.

< Message edited by Aurelian -- 5/3/2012 2:50:42 AM >

_____________________________



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Post #: 35
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/3/2012 9:37:46 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4468
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Maybe what would be better but just as informative is if Matrix say roughly what the average wargame in units would shift over two or three years, or what they'd expect. That solves any games being made. Just an average expectation of a typical wargame.
.


That is covered by Erik's earlier statement. Where they think the "average wargame", (what is that anyway.), in units will shift over the next month, year, whatever, is not our business.

It doesn't matter in whatever creative way it's asked, the answer is the same.


AMEN. It is NO ONE'S business. I really don't give two double damns, with a trip around the damned corner with extra damn left over for the weekend about the issue. Except, that is, to say it is nobody's business but Matrixs'!

_____________________________

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(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 36
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/3/2012 10:07:12 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		WHOAH, alot of hostility here, blimey you all need to chill out abit. If you don't care then what are you posting in this thread for for starters.

It was a simple question and we got an answer. What I find odd is why some people who aren't even Matrix employees are getting so uptight over this. Odd.

I was only asking on behalf of those who may jack in their job thinking they are going to make a living out of wargame development and I thought sales figures maybe a sobering thought so people don't take any financial risks. Now sit back down for god sake and take some deep breaths. Matrix can explain and answer the question (which they did) without some kind of fanboy guard stepping in and get all uptight over it to the point of hostility and smartarse replies, which we all can do, lol.

< Message edited by wodin -- 5/3/2012 10:13:22 PM >

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My FB page, see I'm not that bad.

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Post #: 37
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/3/2012 10:18:03 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4468
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Wyoming, Even Liberals Welcome
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

WHOAH, alot of hostility here, blimey you all need to chill out abit. If you don't care then what are you posting in this thread for for starters.

It was a simple question and we got an answer. What I find odd is why some people who aren't even Matrix employees are getting so uptight over this. Odd.

I was only asking on behalf of those who may jack in their job thinking they are going to make a living out of wargame development and I thought sales figures maybe a sobering thought so people don't take any financial risks. Now sit back down for god sake and take some deep breaths lol.


I do care about the growing implication by some that Matrix should tell them what they want to know. Most businesses are required by law(oh so many laws) to report even the shirt size of their executives in the U.S. I tire of people and government thinking they have a right to know things that are none of their business.

One reason that any company does not release just any information asked for is for competitive advantage. Hey Coca Cola, I demand you tell me just how you make Coke.



Oh yeah wodin, nothing directed at YOU.

< Message edited by parusski -- 5/3/2012 10:33:10 PM >

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 38
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/3/2012 10:52:27 PM   
doomtrader


Posts: 5237
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Being a fulltime wargame developer is a 50% hard work and a 50% luck.
And in this particular case fulltime means 24/7

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Post #: 39
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/3/2012 11:18:26 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 1430
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

WHOAH, alot of hostility here, blimey you all need to chill out abit. If you don't care then what are you posting in this thread for for starters.

It was a simple question and we got an answer. What I find odd is why some people who aren't even Matrix employees are getting so uptight over this. Odd.

I was only asking on behalf of those who may jack in their job thinking they are going to make a living out of wargame development and I thought sales figures maybe a sobering thought so people don't take any financial risks. Now sit back down for god sake and take some deep breaths lol.


I do care about the growing implication by some that Matrix should tell them what they want to know. Most businesses are required by law(oh so many laws) to report even the shirt size of their executives in the U.S. I tire of people and government thinking they have a right to know things that are none of their business.

One reason that any company does not release just any information asked for is for competitive advantage. Hey Coca Cola, I demand you tell me just how you make Coke.



Oh yeah wodin, nothing directed at YOU.


They might release the formula for New Coke :)



_____________________________



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Post #: 40
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/3/2012 11:52:58 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2000
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quote:

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

Being a fulltime wargame developer is a 50% hard work and a 50% luck.
And in this particular case fulltime means 24/7

24/7 is biologically impossible.

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Wonderland - my AB mod in progress:
www.armoredbrigade.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=14

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Post #: 41
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/4/2012 12:23:20 AM   
rogo727


Posts: 924
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

WHOAH, alot of hostility here, blimey you all need to chill out abit. If you don't care then what are you posting in this thread for for starters.

It was a simple question and we got an answer. What I find odd is why some people who aren't even Matrix employees are getting so uptight over this. Odd.

I was only asking on behalf of those who may jack in their job thinking they are going to make a living out of wargame development and I thought sales figures maybe a sobering thought so people don't take any financial risks. Now sit back down for god sake and take some deep breaths lol.


I do care about the growing implication by some that Matrix should tell them what they want to know. Most businesses are required by law(oh so many laws) to report even the shirt size of their executives in the U.S. I tire of people and government thinking they have a right to know things that are none of their business.

One reason that any company does not release just any information asked for is for competitive advantage. Hey Coca Cola, I demand you tell me just how you make Coke.



Oh yeah wodin, nothing directed at YOU.


They might release the formula for New Coke :)
*****************************************************************************
I have the formula for Pepsi one anyone want to trade?



< Message edited by rogo727 -- 5/4/2012 12:25:21 AM >

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 42
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/4/2012 12:23:38 AM   
doomtrader


Posts: 5237
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Poland
Status: offline 		so try it

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Post #: 43
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/4/2012 1:19:27 AM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 1430
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

WHOAH, alot of hostility here, blimey you all need to chill out abit. If you don't care then what are you posting in this thread for for starters.

It was a simple question and we got an answer. What I find odd is why some people who aren't even Matrix employees are getting so uptight over this. Odd.

I was only asking on behalf of those who may jack in their job thinking they are going to make a living out of wargame development and I thought sales figures maybe a sobering thought so people don't take any financial risks. Now sit back down for god sake and take some deep breaths lol.


I do care about the growing implication by some that Matrix should tell them what they want to know. Most businesses are required by law(oh so many laws) to report even the shirt size of their executives in the U.S. I tire of people and government thinking they have a right to know things that are none of their business.

One reason that any company does not release just any information asked for is for competitive advantage. Hey Coca Cola, I demand you tell me just how you make Coke.



Oh yeah wodin, nothing directed at YOU.


They might release the formula for New Coke :)
*****************************************************************************
I have the formula for Pepsi one anyone want to trade?




Pepsi Kona.

_____________________________



(in reply to rogo727)
Post #: 44
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/4/2012 1:35:17 AM   
rogo727


Posts: 924
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

WHOAH, alot of hostility here, blimey you all need to chill out abit. If you don't care then what are you posting in this thread for for starters.

It was a simple question and we got an answer. What I find odd is why some people who aren't even Matrix employees are getting so uptight over this. Odd.

I was only asking on behalf of those who may jack in their job thinking they are going to make a living out of wargame development and I thought sales figures maybe a sobering thought so people don't take any financial risks. Now sit back down for god sake and take some deep breaths lol.


I do care about the growing implication by some that Matrix should tell them what they want to know. Most businesses are required by law(oh so many laws) to report even the shirt size of their executives in the U.S. I tire of people and government thinking they have a right to know things that are none of their business.

One reason that any company does not release just any information asked for is for competitive advantage. Hey Coca Cola, I demand you tell me just how you make Coke.



Oh yeah wodin, nothing directed at YOU.


They might release the formula for New Coke :)
*****************************************************************************
I have the formula for Pepsi one anyone want to trade?




Pepsi Kona.

Jäger Pepsi sounds better

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 45
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/4/2012 8:03:41 AM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3628
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Again let me STRESS the fact NOone is asking for the cost of the unit. What we are asking for is the number of units sold.


Doesn't matter, Matrixgames said NO.



Exactly this right here. Whether we like it or not, this is their house and they have the final word.

_____________________________

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Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

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Post #: 46
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 11/26/2012 3:51:11 AM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 5714
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		I know I'm a little late to the thread here, but I thought a little inductive reasoning might suffice: Assume that sales are proportionate to posts on the board.

The attachment shows all titles with more than 50,000 posts (as of the date of this post). That doesn't tell you what the actual sales are, but gives you an idea which titles have been the most popular. If you sum WitP with WitP-AE, it clobbers everybody.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to ilovestrategy)
Post #: 47
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 11/26/2012 7:34:59 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Curtis..I think Panzer Corps and Battlefield Academy have been big sellers..but their fans are mainly at the Slitherine forum..I imagine they have sold in their thousands..

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My FB page, see I'm not that bad.

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Post #: 48
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 11/26/2012 10:50:54 AM   
Iain McNeil


Posts: 1496
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline 		Unfortunately we cannot reveal any sales information. Posts are a reasonable indicator but you have to view across both sites as Wodin says. You can get an idea if a game is a hit or not from the forum but you don't get an idea of the scale of the hit. Some games just encourage more online discussion. E.g. Games with a strong multiplayer component have a much higher post to sales ratio. Single player games tend to have a lot lower post ratios. Games with strong modding communities have higher post ratios. Huge games tend to have higher post ratios. etc etc.

_____________________________

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Post #: 49
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 11/26/2012 12:52:42 PM   
SapperAstro

 

Posts: 121
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Penrith, Australia
Status: offline 		After reading this I am now doubly curious...about why it is secret.

And just before some retail mogul leaps in...no, don't know a thing about retail. Army my whole life, and still in. Haven't sold a bag of chips let alone sales figures.

So, what are the issues surrounding these figures? Why do they need to be kept secret? What can a competitor do with these figures? Anything else I missed?

(in reply to Iain McNeil)
Post #: 50
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 11/26/2012 4:04:38 PM   
Saint Ruth

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 12/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin
I was only asking on behalf of those who may jack in their job thinking they are going to make a living out of wargame development and I thought sales figures maybe a sobering thought so people don't take any financial risks. Now sit back down for god sake and take some deep breaths. Matrix can explain and answer the question (which they did) without some kind of fanboy guard stepping in and get all uptight over it to the point of hostility and smartarse replies, which we all can do, lol.

What you want to know isn't really about number of sales etc and it's only indirectly related to Matrix.

It's more, how difficult is it to make a full time living out of making wargames?
I'd wager the answer is "very difficult"... ;)

I guess John Tiller does it but then he gets military contracts...

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 51
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 11/26/2012 5:38:05 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		it's the military contracts where the money is..


quote:

ORIGINAL: Saint Ruth

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin
I was only asking on behalf of those who may jack in their job thinking they are going to make a living out of wargame development and I thought sales figures maybe a sobering thought so people don't take any financial risks. Now sit back down for god sake and take some deep breaths. Matrix can explain and answer the question (which they did) without some kind of fanboy guard stepping in and get all uptight over it to the point of hostility and smartarse replies, which we all can do, lol.

What you want to know isn't really about number of sales etc and it's only indirectly related to Matrix.

It's more, how difficult is it to make a full time living out of making wargames?
I'd wager the answer is "very difficult"... ;)

I guess John Tiller does it but then he gets military contracts...




_____________________________

My Tactical wargame facebook page.

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My FB page, see I'm not that bad.

https://www.facebook.com/jason.costa.rimmer

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Post #: 52
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 11/26/2012 7:21:36 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 2502
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

It's not for me, it was for those who I see post on here who are thinking about starting a career in it. I certainly wouldn't make wargames as a way to live. I'd do it as a hobby and possibly making some spare cash.

I thin it was Perturabo who asked about it as a job. I personally wouldn't tell anyone to do it full time. I thought maybe if the info about sales was put out it would make people really think hard before risking anything especially if they have a family.


Somehow, I was struck with amazing wisdom even at the young age of 15 or so back in 1977 to decide once and for all that gaming was a hobby and not a living. I am so glad I stuck to it.



_____________________________

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Post #: 53
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 11/26/2012 8:21:53 PM   
Iain McNeil


Posts: 1496
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline 		One of the main reasons is the information is all confidential and we'd be breaching various agreements by telling you. The data is also very valuable to the marketing team and for the same reason you don't see sales data from anyone else. The only real sales data is from places like NPD who collect data from stores and extrapolate it rather than the publishers.

_____________________________

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Director
Slitherine Software
Website http://www.slitherine.com

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 54
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 11/27/2012 2:37:40 AM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 5714
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Curtis..I think Panzer Corps and Battlefield Academy have been big sellers..but their fans are mainly at the Slitherine forum..I imagine they have sold in their thousands..


Well, that shows how out of touch I am - I didn't even know what Slitherine was. Yes, many games have more than one forum to discuss on, and that, along with Iain's comments will skew the results. Nevertheless, I think the data still have utility. They make it a safe bet that WitP was a huge hit, for example. It's kind of like geologic strata - the thickness doesn't necessarily tell you how long the period lasted, but it's not irrelevant either.

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 55
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 11/27/2012 2:55:03 AM   
radic202

 

Posts: 211
Joined: 6/7/2012
Status: offline
Wow! This is one of the most interesting reads I have had here in a long time.

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Post #: 56
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 11/27/2012 11:21:34 AM   
flanyboy

 

Posts: 1091
Joined: 11/30/2006
Status: offline 		While it's true for profit and public companies have to show their books details are often not required.

I own stock in two cell phone companies and both companies release financial figures but that doesn't mean they release specific sales data. They will for example say how many new customers they added or lost, but they don't release figures for specific numbers of phone models sold.

Same thing goes for companies like Samsung, Google, and HTC. They release financials but don't HAVE to say how many phones they sold.

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 57
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 11/27/2012 11:27:35 AM   
flanyboy

 

Posts: 1091
Joined: 11/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Curtis..I think Panzer Corps and Battlefield Academy have been big sellers..but their fans are mainly at the Slitherine forum..I imagine they have sold in their thousands..


Well, that shows how out of touch I am - I didn't even know what Slitherine was. Yes, many games have more than one forum to discuss on, and that, along with Iain's comments will skew the results. Nevertheless, I think the data still have utility. They make it a safe bet that WitP was a huge hit, for example. It's kind of like geologic strata - the thickness doesn't necessarily tell you how long the period lasted, but it's not irrelevant either.

I also think a fair judge of the success of the game is sequals. More proof WITP did well is that WiTP AE and War Plan Orange were made. Also the fact WiTE was made indicates the WiTP community or the community that supports games that large and epic is at least successful enough to support further development and not a financial black hole.

Same goes for Panzer Corps which I heard rumors was so popular it crashed some servers when it came out but either way has an expansion and half a dozen minor DLCs.

< Message edited by flanyboy -- 11/27/2012 11:28:37 AM >

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 58
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 11/27/2012 12:19:17 PM   
SapperAstro

 

Posts: 121
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Penrith, Australia
Status: offline 		I wouldn't ignore the 'Gary Grigsby' part though.

In spite of the fact that I know I don't have enough time to play them, I still um'd and ah'd about buying WitP and WiR, mainly because it was made by a bunch of guys (his team mates are no less veterans, with a brilliant track record, than Grigsby) who know how to make computer wargames. I would guess that the amount of auto buys due to who the creators are should also be factored in. On top of that, they seem to realise what is needed in todays wargaming market; quality AND quantity of content.

I daresay these giant games wouldn't have faired quite as well if it had been done by someone without the street cred, even given the same quality.

Oh, and thank you Iain for indulging my curiosity.

(in reply to flanyboy)
Post #: 59
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