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Question for Matrix.. - 5/1/2012 8:45:57 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		With all the talk recently about game design and some of us who are either dreaming about or actually developing I'm sure what would be interesting would be what has been your best selling game?

Obviously old ones may have sold more so taking everything into account what has been the best selling and most popular title so far. We don't need to know the figures just the name.

Another question you may not want to answer is what games have been well received and considered top titles in your stable but sale figures alone would be unlikely to keep some one in full time employment? I doubt this one can be answered, however it would show which genres or type of games know matter how great they are wouldn't be a good choice to develop if thats all you where going to make, This question stems form a comment from Arjuna who obviously makes a series very highly praised indeed but has by the sound of it suffered financial hardship.

All in all the first question I feel will be of help to us, and any other advice would be appreciated.

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Post #: 1
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/1/2012 12:03:15 PM   
Iain McNeil


Posts: 1494
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline 		Obviously we cant give details but here are some of our most current popular games in no particular order:

Panzer Corps
War in the East
Battle Academy
Close Combat
Distant Worlds
Harpoon

Probably no surprises here.


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Post #: 2
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/1/2012 12:14:57 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Thanks Ian.

I had a feeling DW would probably outsell most other games here, purely down to is being a 4x space game which is a more mainstream genre. War in the East is a surprise. With the talk of monster games being a risky venture and all that. Harpoon is a surprise aswell. What with WITE being in the list I'd have imagined WitP to have overtaken Harpoon. Close Combat is a surprise aswell more due to the fact they are remakes than anything else. I do think the next CC game and then the new one will be pretty big hits though.

What about a top 5 in no particular order of best sellers all around that aren't just popular at the moment. Or will it be more or less the same as above?

< Message edited by wodin -- 5/1/2012 12:16:12 PM >

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Post #: 3
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/1/2012 12:17:12 PM   
cpdeyoung


Posts: 2790
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: South Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		I am surprised.

I would not have thought "Harpoon", a very big favorite of mine for many years, was a current hot seller.

So, you have at least one surprised customer.

Chuck

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Post #: 4
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/1/2012 4:41:48 PM   
Vincenzo Beretta


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/13/2001
From: Milan, Italy
Status: offline 		Harpoon - stray childishness aside - enjoys an excellent support by the community, which can be one of the reasons. I'm surprised not to see War in the Pacific AE in the list, though.

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Post #: 5
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/1/2012 6:48:45 PM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6146
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Obviously we cant give details but here are some of our most current popular games in no particular order:



Bolded for emphasis. Iain's not claiming these are the top-sellers of all time, but only some of the most current popular games.

As a shameless plug, I'll note that TOAW 3 is still selling well after more than five years...

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Post #: 6
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/1/2012 6:54:03 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		yeah really I wanted to know what the smash hits have been from the start or say over the last 7 years or so.

< Message edited by wodin -- 5/1/2012 8:24:58 PM >

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Post #: 7
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/1/2012 7:29:12 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 31193
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: online 		Iain's list was neither comprehensive nor exclusive, nor in any particular order and he only focused on the more recent releases. Drawing conclusions from it is frankly somewhat pointless.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 8
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/1/2012 8:06:37 PM   
shunwick


Posts: 1245
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline 		Edited by me because the post was negative, off topic, and certainly no fault of Matrix. Sorry about that.

Best wishes,
Steve

< Message edited by shunwick -- 5/1/2012 9:18:22 PM >

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Post #: 9
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/1/2012 8:11:56 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 915
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline 		Erik,
Why is it so double secret to release the number of units sold? I think most of us would like to know which games are most succesful for Matrix games. I realize that Matrix is a private owned company and not public owned and it would be different if I was asking what your yearly salary is. In a way I think of myself as a share holder in Matrix as I have spent Hundreds to invest in your company. If it's Matrix's policy not to do so just say so. A top ten or top twenty list would be nice.

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Post #: 10
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/1/2012 8:24:09 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		+1 what he says....it is very useful info for would be developers. Not sure what the issue is in why the info isn't released. I can't see people not buying a game because it hasn't sold many copies, you buy what you like and soemtimes what you like isn't popular. It's also not to the detriment of the developers either as I'm sure we all realise that the hardcore wargames are going to be lucky in some cases to hit a 1000 sales. We also I'm sure know that any game thats sold in excess of 2000 units has done really well. Were not expecting huge sales figures.

It's just some here have considered dropping everything to become a wargame developer and I think seeing sales figures would be things into perspective, even if you don't mention the games but give us what you consider a reasonable amount of units sold.

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Post #: 11
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/1/2012 8:51:04 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 31193
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: online 		Hi guys,

It is our policy to consider such information confidential, sorry. I'm happy to help with advice to anyone who is thinking of making games, but I can't release specific sales data.

Regards,

- Erik


_____________________________

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Director of Product Development and Business Relations


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

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Post #: 12
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/2/2012 7:02:35 AM   
PizzaMan


Posts: 205
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi guys,

It is our policy to consider such information confidential, sorry. I'm happy to help with advice to anyone who is thinking of making games, but I can't release specific sales data.

Regards,

- Erik



You have my full support. I was actually surprised there was even a response at all.

Try walking into any for profit retailer, and request their numbers. They will laugh in your face. Those numbers are property of the company. Not even the shareholders of a corporation would see those numbers, not to mention a customer. Having spent 25+ years in retail, every company I worked for would go to great lengths to discover/uncover intel on the competition, and sales data is closely guarded. It is the life blood of any company.

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Post #: 13
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/2/2012 8:32:16 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Erm..so how come big business have to release there profit over the year?

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Post #: 14
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/2/2012 1:43:29 PM   
doomtrader


Posts: 5231
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Poland
Status: online 		Actually the car manufacturers are sharing the data.

Also if you are a stockholder, most often you have got the rights to take a look into the books.

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Post #: 15
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/2/2012 2:04:22 PM   
invernomuto


Posts: 914
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Turin, Italy
Status: offline 		It could be useful to have not specific data but a "most popular" (based on sales) game list, maybe divided into "New releases" and "all time" or divided into categories (grognards, intermediate, novice).
It could be a useful buying guide for newcomers.
If I remember correctly, there's something similar in STEAM.

Bye.

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Post #: 16
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/2/2012 2:13:15 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 915
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline 		Doom,
I was applying that I felt like a stock holder because I have truly spent hundres at matrix games. Erik's statement that matrix games does not share or even list it's top selling games defies almost all logic. If logic determins reason why wouldn't matrix say what it's most successful games are.

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Post #: 17
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/2/2012 3:52:01 PM   
Lieste

 

Posts: 1608
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline 		I think you might be confusing owning a license, with owning the software, and extending that to owning a share in a company because of the license to use the product...

Kind of like Ass-uming you own (part-of) the company Kimberly Clark because you use Andrex - except there you do actually own the right to use the paper for any (legal) purpose.

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Post #: 18
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/2/2012 3:52:56 PM   
Lieste

 

Posts: 1608
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline 		I do think that there could be more transparency ~ but it doesn't bother me either way.

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Post #: 19
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/2/2012 4:00:35 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: invernomuto

It could be useful to have not specific data but a "most popular" (based on sales) game list, maybe divided into "New releases" and "all time" or divided into categories (grognards, intermediate, novice).
It could be a useful buying guide for newcomers.
If I remember correctly, there's something similar in STEAM.

Bye.



It's not as a pointer for what to buy but more what sort of game does well if your thinking of becoming a developer. I>E you may want to make a certain wargame and stake lots of funds and time on it and then it turns out your estimation of sales was way to high. I want to make a game not for money but I want this certain game made. However if I was looking at it from a money or job perspective I probably would make something totally different.

As someone said figures didn't need to be discussed but a top 3 of recent and an all time top 3 would be a good pointer on what type of wargames may make you a living.

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Post #: 20
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/2/2012 4:04:48 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

Actually the car manufacturers are sharing the data.

Also if you are a stockholder, most often you have got the rights to take a look into the books.



yeah I was thinking or privatised companies. Also big companies have to release their profit details etc I think probably something to do with fair trade and not taking up the whole market place. Also when it's a service then value for money is important especially when it comes to Gas and Electric companies. Who in the UK are robbing gits (I would use a far stronger term). Global warming I'm starting to believe is a scam to make more tax and pile on profits in certain industries. Not saying it isn't happening, however climate change has happened throughout the worlds lifespan. Though this is now going right off topic.

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Post #: 21
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/2/2012 4:14:54 PM   
Lieste

 

Posts: 1608
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline 		All companies have to publish their accounts - & only very small ones get away with a four line account, most have to publish fuller profit and loss and balance sheets. Shareholder meetings and finance reports/portfolios etc are the next level, but it should be possible if you were really interested, to see what Matrix take, and what the approximate breakdown in expenditure is... I doubt that they are small enough to not require this level of reporting.

It won't give units sold, or a breakdown by product though.

< Message edited by Lieste -- 5/2/2012 4:15:19 PM >

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Post #: 22
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/2/2012 4:49:10 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 915
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lieste

I think you might be confusing owning a license, with owning the software, and extending that to owning a share in a company because of the license to use the product...

Kind of like Ass-uming you own (part-of) the company Kimberly Clark because you use Andrex - except there you do actually own the right to use the paper for any (legal) purpose.

I don't think I was assuming anything mr. Lieste. Nor do I feel like an ass for inquiring why matrix has this policy as you tried so rashly to point out.

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Post #: 23
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/2/2012 5:20:04 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		rogo I think leiste ass remark was with regards to toilet paper rather than you.

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Post #: 24
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/2/2012 5:43:35 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 915
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PizzaMan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi guys,

It is our policy to consider such information confidential, sorry. I'm happy to help with advice to anyone who is thinking of making games, but I can't release specific sales data.

Regards,

- Erik



You have my full support. I was actually surprised there was even a response at all.

Try walking into any for profit retailer, and request their numbers. They will laugh in your face. Those numbers are property of the company. Not even the shareholders of a corporation would see those numbers, not to mention a customer. Having spent 25+ years in retail, every company I worked for would go to great lengths to discover/uncover intel on the competition, and sales data is closely guarded. It is the life blood of any company.

Having worked as many years in the grocery industry the statement above is false. Every month a magazine called the grocer reports the sales of each grocery chain in America. I think the original poster was asking how many of units where sold not how much they made.

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Post #: 25
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/2/2012 6:34:32 PM   
Lieste

 

Posts: 1608
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline 		Yes, profit and turnover (and the balance sheet and general expenditure classes) are generally in the public domain (though you might have to pay to access them). A break-down of income sources, units sold, and of what @ what unit price is generally considered sensitive and no-one's business but the company itself, any statutory/voluntary auditor, and possibly IRS/HMRC etc if it seems there is a major discrepancy between reported takings and the size of the operation (see current investigations into Amazon due to allegations of tax evasion on both sides of the Atlantic).

Steam might publish some results (I get that impression) but it is in their interests to generate 'volume' which they do by advertising 'volume' and being the 'biggest'.

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Post #: 26
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/2/2012 6:41:09 PM   
rogo727


Posts: 915
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline 		Again let me STRESS the fact NOone is asking for the cost of the unit. What we are asking for is the number of units sold.

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Post #: 27
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/2/2012 7:42:55 PM   
flipperwasirish


Posts: 1552
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: The Nutmeg State
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

As someone said figures didn't need to be discussed but a top 3 of recent and an all time top 3 would be a good pointer on what type of wargames may make you a living.


Without more detailed info, just going on "sales figures" would lead you down a path you might not expect. Profit per unit is (IMO) a more valuabe number to know.

Anyway, maybe someday when Matrix becomes a public company perhaps you will get more info. But even, I doubt it will be what you need to make your choice.

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Post #: 28
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/2/2012 8:10:45 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		It's not for me, it was for those who I see post on here who are thinking about starting a career in it. I certainly wouldn't make wargames as a way to live. I'd do it as a hobby and possibly making some spare cash.

I thin it was Perturabo who asked about it as a job. I personally wouldn't tell anyone to do it full time. I thought maybe if the info about sales was put out it would make people really think hard before risking anything especially if they have a family.

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Post #: 29
RE: Question for Matrix.. - 5/2/2012 11:37:29 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 1428
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Again let me STRESS the fact NOone is asking for the cost of the unit. What we are asking for is the number of units sold.


Doesn't matter, Matrixgames said NO.

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Post #: 30
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