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Does CD gun fire slow down unloading an invasion?

 
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Does CD gun fire slow down unloading an invasion? - 4/30/2012 5:32:46 PM   
cavalry

 

Posts: 1868
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Blackboys East Sussex UK
Status: online
That is my question.

Allies in scn2 I am Japs tried to Land at Wake in June 42 and got wiped out by the shock attack- there was quite a lot of CD fire?

Could that have slowed unloading - I would expect it would IRL.
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RE: Does CD gun fire slow down unloading an invasion? - 4/30/2012 5:37:30 PM   
Cannonfodder


Posts: 1909
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
Im not sure if it slows down unloading.. It does have an effect on disruption! If you shock attack with heavily disrupted troops against a fortified position (I imagine it is fortified in june 1942) they could get hit badly and could get destroyed..

What kind of resistance are you facing? (defense battalion, a regiment of Marines?) How many troops were still in the boats after first day of unloading? When did you start unloading (night turn?)

_____________________________


"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor


(in reply to cavalry)
Post #: 2
RE: Does CD gun fire slow down unloading an invasion? - 4/30/2012 8:59:54 PM   
inqistor


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Most probable explanation is that CD guns hit your loaded transports, and killed troops onboard.

You should also watch out for time, when your invasion fleet arrives. It is better to arrive at night, and get two turns of unloading, before automatic assault will trigger.

(in reply to Cannonfodder)
Post #: 3
RE: Does CD gun fire slow down unloading an invasion? - 4/30/2012 9:32:07 PM   
cavalry

 

Posts: 1868
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Blackboys East Sussex UK
Status: online
I am Japs

fort level is 4 , a regt is there plus the CD unit.
The allies tried a quick one I think because the KB was off Burma
We are playing two day turns.


Results attched for interest - note I still losta lot of troops


Naval bombardment of Wake Island at 136,98 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

36 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
CA Minneapolis
CA Indianapolis, Shell hits 3

Japanese ground losses:
161 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled



SOC-1 Seagull acting as spotter for CA Minneapolis
CA Minneapolis firing at 4th/A Division
SOC-1 Seagull acting as spotter for CA Indianapolis
CA Indianapolis firing at Wake Coastal Gun Battalion
Wake Coastal Gun Battalion firing at CA Indianapolis


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre-Invasion action off Wake Island (136,98) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

132 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
BB Colorado, Shell hits 4
CL Raleigh, Shell hits 2
DD King, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Fox
DD Allen, Shell hits 1
xAKL Hirondelle
xAK Hoegh Merchant
KV New Westminster

Japanese ground losses:
78 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 10 (1 destroyed, 9 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
11 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


BB Colorado firing at Wake Coastal Gun Battalion
Wake Coastal Gun Battalion firing at BB Colorado
Wake Coastal Gun Battalion firing at CL Raleigh
CL Raleigh firing at Wake Coastal Gun Battalion
DD King firing at Wake Coastal Gun Battalion
Wake Coastal Gun Battalion firing at DD King
DD Fox firing at 4th/A Division
DD Allen firing at Wake Coastal Gun Battalion
Wake Coastal Gun Battalion firing at DD Allen
12cm 10YT DP Gun Battery engaging xAKL Hirondelle at 17,000 yards
CL Raleigh firing to suppress enemy battery at 17,000 yards
DD Allen fired at enemy troops
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 6,000 yards
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 1,000 yards


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Wake Island (136,98)

TF 140 troops unloading over beach at Wake Island, 136,98


Allied ground losses:
300 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 44 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)


Ground combat at Wake Island (136,98)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 918 troops, 0 guns, 3 vehicles, Assault Value = 35

Defending force 5441 troops, 82 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 159

Assault collapses, attacking force wiped out

Japanese ground losses:
1259 casualties reported
Squads: 88 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 22 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 3 (3 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 1



Assaulting units:
9th Marine Rgt /9

Defending units:
4th/A Division
37th JNAF AF Unit
Wake Coastal Gun Battalion
49th Fld AA Bn /8



(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 4
RE: Does CD gun fire slow down unloading an invasion? - 4/30/2012 9:40:32 PM   
Cannonfodder


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From: the Netherlands
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Looks like he tried to land the marines in a couple of AKs? In any case, there is a huge risk in attacking atols with less or equal assault value. If the attack stalls it gets wiped out..

What you witnessed was maybe 1000 marines assaulting 5000 dug in angry Japs with good supply.....

The attacker got what he was asking for. Even one of the smaller units the Japanese get (60 AV SNLF) could have stopped this assault.

He should have landed the entire 1st marine division to have a chance...

_____________________________


"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor


(in reply to cavalry)
Post #: 5
RE: Does CD gun fire slow down unloading an invasion? - 4/30/2012 10:27:55 PM   
inqistor


Posts: 1332
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cavalry

I am Japs

Oh, missed that.

quote:

Results attched for interest - note I still losta lot of troops


Naval bombardment of Wake Island at 136,98 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

36 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Do not believe those numbers. Every gun with enough range tends to shot (and they rarely hit, because of low accuracy of ground artillery). So not ALL shots were by "coastal guns".
Your loses were mostly from heavy ships bombarding

quote:

Allied Ships
BB Colorado, Shell hits 4
CL Raleigh, Shell hits 2
DD King, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Fox
DD Allen, Shell hits 1
xAKL Hirondelle
xAK Hoegh Merchant
KV New Westminster

2 civilian transports, are hardly ships for quick unload.

quote:

Allied ground losses:
300 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 44 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)

1/3rd of forces were disabled during unloading

quote:

Ground combat at Wake Island (136,98)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 918 troops, 0 guns, 3 vehicles, Assault Value = 35

Defending force 5441 troops, 82 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 159

Assault collapses, attacking force wiped out

Japanese ground losses:
1259 casualties reported
Squads: 88 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 22 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 3 (3 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

There is something missing here. Either Allied line, or whole Japanese loses.

quote:

Assaulting units:
9th Marine Rgt /9


Number at the end indicates, that not whole unit was able to unload. So probably bad commander, lack of supply, and not enough troops.

(in reply to cavalry)
Post #: 6
RE: Does CD gun fire slow down unloading an invasion? - 5/1/2012 1:08:01 AM   
Icedawg


Posts: 1576
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline
I'm very confused.

You are the Japanese, yet the combat report shows an allied amphibious TF unloading and getting fired at. What's going on here?

(in reply to cavalry)
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RE: Does CD gun fire slow down unloading an invasion? - 5/1/2012 11:02:59 AM   
cavalry

 

Posts: 1868
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Blackboys East Sussex UK
Status: online
Yes I am Japs and that is all there is...

(in reply to Icedawg)
Post #: 8
RE: Does CD gun fire slow down unloading an invasion? - 5/1/2012 12:37:56 PM   
Icedawg


Posts: 1576
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline
How did you lose 1300 troops as the defender to an attacking force of 900 troops (which were entirely wiped out)? Something just doesn't add up here.

(in reply to cavalry)
Post #: 9
RE: Does CD gun fire slow down unloading an invasion? - 5/1/2012 1:28:19 PM   
Crackaces


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Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

How did you lose 1300 troops as the defender to an attacking force of 900 troops (which were entirely wiped out)? Something just doesn't add up here.


Here is my sophmoric observations ..

In the combat report as the defender it seems to me that all troops are accounted for including support forces, but the attacker only accounts for squads on the attack: engineer;, armor; and, inf sqauds; I have CR's in which I had 16,000 defenders against the bombardment attack and only 10,000 attackers on the return shock attack ...the oposing forces also increased in size .. so I surmise this is what is going on here?

(in reply to Icedawg)
Post #: 10
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