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U.S. ARD not working

 
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U.S. ARD not working - 4/30/2012 12:34:48 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 7117
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		I am in the main #1 scenerio, playing as Allies..I moved the first ARD from the U.S. west coast clear to Noumea and was able to repair a Washington class BB and an Enterprise class CV..Later, Itried to repair another BB(ARD was now empty, plenty of supply and Noumea was size 7 port..ARD would not repair the ship, days to fix in ship repair now sez something like "X127"(meaning it will not repair.)

Loads of supply, twice the needed support on hand, the BB is not larger than the 55,000 ton lift capacity..

What gives??

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RE: U.S. ARD not working - 4/30/2012 2:14:48 PM   
michaelm


Posts: 8198
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From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		The BB has float damage??

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RE: U.S. ARD not working - 4/30/2012 6:21:59 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 7117
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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		Yes Michael

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RE: U.S. ARD not working - 4/30/2012 8:44:19 PM   
inqistor


Posts: 1210
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline 		"X" means, that SOME damages can not be repaired. I am guessing main guns are destroyed, and lvl 7 port is too small for 16 in.

See 14.2.4

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RE: U.S. ARD not working - 4/30/2012 9:13:38 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 4427
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		The 127 means that it can repair some of the damage and will take 127 days.  I suspect inquisitor is spot on regarding what isn't getting repaired.  Main Guns go to Seattle.

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RE: U.S. ARD not working - 4/30/2012 11:25:30 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 7117
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		No guys, it is now happening with every level of damaged ship I am bringing into this port..

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RE: U.S. ARD not working - 4/30/2012 11:26:56 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 7117
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		NOTE:It worked fine for the first 2 ships, but I suspect it lost reapir capability when I removed the MAIN support uit, the SOPAC commander??

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RE: U.S. ARD not working - 5/1/2012 12:55:40 AM   
Don Bowen


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Post a screenshot of the original damaged ship.

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RE: U.S. ARD not working - 5/1/2012 6:46:17 AM   
PaxMondo


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Status: offline 		gotta have an AR in port with the ARD.

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RE: U.S. ARD not working - 5/2/2012 8:24:21 AM   
inqistor


Posts: 1210
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quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

No guys, it is now happening with every level of damaged ship I am bringing into this port..

No, seriously. "X127" means, that ship will repair in 127 days, but SOME of damages can not be repaired. In most cases destroyed weapon, or maybe you have serious engine damages?

quote:

NOTE:It worked fine for the first 2 ships, but I suspect it lost reapir capability when I removed the MAIN support uit, the SOPAC commander??

That could mean, that most of your repair capabilities was from Naval Support in that unit. Also, at least in original WITP, presence of Naval HQ increased level of port (in checking for repair rates). I am not sure it is still in WITP AE.

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RE: U.S. ARD not working - 5/2/2012 10:47:39 AM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

gotta have an AR in port with the ARD.



wasn't that fixed in some patch?

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RE: U.S. ARD not working - 5/2/2012 11:17:57 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

gotta have an AR in port with the ARD.



wasn't that fixed in some patch?

Not sure ... isn't it WAD?

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RE: U.S. ARD not working - 5/2/2012 1:18:30 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

gotta have an AR in port with the ARD.



wasn't that fixed in some patch?

Not sure ... isn't it WAD?


An ARD can only repair float damge and should not need an AR present to do that. I think it might have been the case very early in the game's patch history, but not now.

Is the ARD itself damaged? If it is there will be a per-turn reduction in repair points generated. I believe that past a certain point of damage an ARD will stop repairing guest ships and try to repair itself. I don't know what this damage amount is, and I don't think the manual says. Perhaps Don could comment.

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RE: U.S. ARD not working - 5/2/2012 3:47:09 PM   
witpqs

 

Posts: 12400
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

gotta have an AR in port with the ARD.


wasn't that fixed in some patch?

Not sure ... isn't it WAD?


An ARD can only repair float damge and should not need an AR present to do that. I think it might have been the case very early in the game's patch history, but not now.

Is the ARD itself damaged? If it is there will be a per-turn reduction in repair points generated. I believe that past a certain point of damage an ARD will stop repairing guest ships and try to repair itself. I don't know what this damage amount is, and I don't think the manual says. Perhaps Don could comment.

I thought they said it was WAD to need an AR with an ARD?? And from my experience you should repair your ARD if it has damage although I don't know what is the cut-off amount of damage.

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RE: U.S. ARD not working - 5/2/2012 4:12:51 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

gotta have an AR in port with the ARD.


wasn't that fixed in some patch?

Not sure ... isn't it WAD?


An ARD can only repair float damge and should not need an AR present to do that. I think it might have been the case very early in the game's patch history, but not now.

Is the ARD itself damaged? If it is there will be a per-turn reduction in repair points generated. I believe that past a certain point of damage an ARD will stop repairing guest ships and try to repair itself. I don't know what this damage amount is, and I don't think the manual says. Perhaps Don could comment.

I thought they said it was WAD to need an AR with an ARD?? And from my experience you should repair your ARD if it has damage although I don't know what is the cut-off amount of damage.


I was going by this very old thread/post:

"quote:

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

Is it WAD that an ARD needs either a shipyard or AR in the same port to be able to function ? I made a test with an ARD in a small scenario and I never got the option to use a repair ship if I there wasn't a shipyard or AR present in the port. Once one of those two was available, it was obvious that the ARD was functioning (80 major float on an AKV could be repaired when an ARD an AR were present)



No, that is not how it is designed. Please post your test in the Tech Support thread.

OK, I set up a little test myself and have found a display issue in Manage Damage ships. Looks like the issue is display only. Will address ASAP.

< Message edited by Don Bowen -- 12/4/2009 8:53:09 AM > "

I know the ARD/AR issue has been discussed since. I myself often get confused since I know in RL how little organic capacity ARDs have (no shops), and they'd normally be paired up with an AR/AD/AS to provide foundry and machine tool services and spare part stowage, but I think I've been told in the past to forget RL in this case.

I think what gets some folks bolluxed up is that ARDs can only address float damage, while ARs can address engine and system as well as (sometimes) float. Alfred's guide provides details.

But I dimmly recall a discussion of ARD own-ship damage long ago. I want to say it was 5% damage to the ARD makes it try to self-repair, but that's so dim I would never rely on it. I am fairly certain that an ARD does not rely on any level of local HQ help, or naval suport squads, or port size, etc. I just sits there and works away.

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RE: U.S. ARD not working - 5/2/2012 4:28:09 PM   
witpqs

 

Posts: 12400
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online 		Yeah, (on the ARD being-damaged point) I just know that when I got one somewhere it didn't work until I fixed it but I never played around to find the threshold.

On the main point, I thought that later on the final answer was basically "OK, they need an AR present." But then again those neurons might have been over-written when I heard a re-election campaign ad that didn't get muted quickly enough. Those things are downright toxic and will rot your brain!

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RE: U.S. ARD not working - 5/2/2012 4:48:42 PM   
Don Bowen


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In AE, an ARD should be able to repair float damage on its own. The ARD is considered to include enough repair capability to accomplish this, without any additional assets of any kind. This is part of the AE extension to separate "civilian" port size from military assets that can be added to any size port. Those assets are generalized, such that an ARD includes not only lifting capability, but repair as well.

No AR is required for an ARD to accomplish repairs. There was a bug at one time that did not allow ARDs to Function unless an AR was present. This was due to a simple order of checks issue and has long since been corrected.

The fact that the damage estimate is 127X indicates that the ARD can repair some but not all of the damage. This probably means there is engine, weapons, or system damage as well.

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RE: U.S. ARD not working - 5/2/2012 7:40:12 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


In AE, an ARD should be able to repair float damage on its own. The ARD is considered to include enough repair capability to accomplish this, without any additional assets of any kind. This is part of the AE extension to separate "civilian" port size from military assets that can be added to any size port. Those assets are generalized, such that an ARD includes not only lifting capability, but repair as well.

No AR is required for an ARD to accomplish repairs. There was a bug at one time that did not allow ARDs to Function unless an AR was present. This was due to a simple order of checks issue and has long since been corrected.

The fact that the damage estimate is 127X indicates that the ARD can repair some but not all of the damage. This probably means there is engine, weapons, or system damage as well.


That answers that.

But can you confirm or deny that there is some level of own-ship damage to an ARD which causes it to ignore hosted ship repairs? Or even eject the lifted ship? If an ARD with a BB inside were hit by a massive air raid, would both ships be sunk per the code?

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 5/2/2012 7:41:20 PM >

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RE: U.S. ARD not working - 5/2/2012 8:32:18 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8013
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From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
...

But can you confirm or deny that there is some level of own-ship damage to an ARD which causes it to ignore hosted ship repairs? Or even eject the lifted ship?


Yes. There is a damage level to an ARD (also AR, AS, AD, etc) that renders it inoperable and incapable of performing its mission. The toleance for floatation and engine damage is high (around 50% float and 75% engine, but these numbers are from memory and are not exact). System damage tolerance is lower - around 25% (also from memory.


quote:

If an ARD with a BB inside were hit by a massive air raid, would both ships be sunk per the code?


No. The level of detail in the repair process does NOT include assigning a specific damaged ship to a specific ARD (or AR, etc, for that matter). ARDs (and other repair ship types) are pooled assets that are used by the Repair Manager. Therefore damage to the damaged ship and the ARD are independent.

While it might be argued that such an assignment might be assumed (especially if there were only one damaged ship and one ARD), there is no code present for this function. I can tell you that it was looked into during development. It was too much trouble for too little benefit at two levels (code and player interaction). Code would have to make and record the assingment and the player would have to manually move ships in and out of the ARD as repairs progressed. The decision was to let the Repair Manager handle it as a pool.

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Post #: 19
RE: U.S. ARD not working - 5/2/2012 10:34:35 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 6186
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
...

But can you confirm or deny that there is some level of own-ship damage to an ARD which causes it to ignore hosted ship repairs? Or even eject the lifted ship?


Yes. There is a damage level to an ARD (also AR, AS, AD, etc) that renders it inoperable and incapable of performing its mission. The toleance for floatation and engine damage is high (around 50% float and 75% engine, but these numbers are from memory and are not exact). System damage tolerance is lower - around 25% (also from memory.

That's a range and good enough for me. It's far above the 5% I had remembered. But there are fives in yours, so maybe I'm not senile yet.

quote:

If an ARD with a BB inside were hit by a massive air raid, would both ships be sunk per the code?


No. The level of detail in the repair process does NOT include assigning a specific damaged ship to a specific ARD (or AR, etc, for that matter). ARDs (and other repair ship types) are pooled assets that are used by the Repair Manager. Therefore damage to the damaged ship and the ARD are independent.

While it might be argued that such an assignment might be assumed (especially if there were only one damaged ship and one ARD), there is no code present for this function. I can tell you that it was looked into during development. It was too much trouble for too little benefit at two levels (code and player interaction). Code would have to make and record the assingment and the player would have to manually move ships in and out of the ARD as repairs progressed. The decision was to let the Repair Manager handle it as a pool.



Also good to know and I agree that the code time wouldn't be worth the off chance. I guess the BB would just reappear in the port, disbanded, with its damage as it was before the turn the ARD was sunk.

This might be a corollary to the old question about USS Pennsylvania taking torpedoes on Dec. 7th while in the PH shipyard. Thanks for the quick answers.

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RE: U.S. ARD not working - 5/3/2012 9:00:12 AM   
m10bob


Posts: 7117
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		I have 2 AR's with the ARD, SOPAC CO is there several engineer units, loads of supply, port size 7..Perhaps it is fixing float damage and I was not watching for that exclusively?..

Maybe a future patch will light up in red which area will not be fixed,(float,systems,arms,etc.)?

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RE: U.S. ARD not working - 5/3/2012 1:27:38 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

I have 2 AR's with the ARD, SOPAC CO is there several engineer units, loads of supply, port size 7..Perhaps it is fixing float damage and I was not watching for that exclusively?..

Maybe a future patch will light up in red which area will not be fixed,(float,systems,arms,etc.)?


Personally I find the current system of X, #, etc. to alert me that things will not fix 100% to be sufficient if I pay attention. The order of repairs I leave to the Repair Manager. My personal blind spot is in weapon repairs, especially to CAs and bigger. I seem to often miss the damage (I don't examine each ship, but use the summary screens) and am left with a fully-repaired ship which can't shoot unless I send her back to CONUS.

If you haven't, read Alfred's Repair Guide. It made a lot of things clearer to me regarding all the types of tenders as well as the order in which types of damage will be addressed.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 5/3/2012 1:28:12 PM >

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