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35 different? - 4/29/2012 3:40:30 PM   
wodin


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Is it 35 different factions or 35 different races?

Seems alot whatever it is. Wouldn't having so many dilute the differences some what? Wouldn't it be better cutting that down by half and doubling the amount of different units or weapons or something. 35 just seems like overkill. People are asking about 35 human players, anyone really think they can get 35 people all to play at the same time? Even if it was PBEM imagine how long you'd be waiting for all the turns to come together and being turn based you could be waiting 35 weeks!

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RE: 35 different? - 4/29/2012 5:23:06 PM   
Xerkis


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Agreed on the 35 with PBEM. Unless, one player would control multiple races. But even then if you were controlling 5 each; that would still take a long time before you could get to have your turn again. I wouldn’t think it would be that enjoyable. But you never know until you try it. . . . . . And I would certainly be will to do that (at least once).

But with just single player – I say the more the better. 35 or more would be awesome. I imagine (or “assume” might be the better word) that the differences might be “diluted” as you say in some areas. Like for instances the differences between a Wood Elf is to a High Elf 9as I remember back to my old Dungeon and Dragon days) would seem to fall under this definition. And as such, I would then offer that 35 is actually not quite enough but only a good starting point.

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RE: 35 different? - 4/29/2012 8:04:01 PM   
wodin


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Thing is 35 is great with unlimited resources and time to put into them all. However the game industry isn't like that. I'd rather have less factions and more unit types to choose from whilst playing my faction and more weapons and events etc etc, rather than a choice of 35 and less of everything else. Lets remember you'll only be playing one of those factions most likely so you want loads of choices and things to do. I'd rather the developing time be spent on making a smaller amount of factions but with alot more content than loads of factions and less content.

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RE: 35 different? - 4/29/2012 11:08:24 PM   
Xerkis


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You’ll only be playing as one – yes. But against one – not likely. So that is where you want the mass numbers.

But I certainly see your point – and it is well taken. Yeah you’re right, I do want to see huge depth in the race I pick to have as mine and the races I play against. As opposed to as you say, have a wide variety of races but with no depth.
I know ignorance will be showing through in my next statement here but. . . . . other than artwork, I don’t see what differences there would be between in creating races other than data in a file. They attack at a 6 or at a 8 – things like that. You can knock out 100s of races in a day with that. Then you just need the artwork to catch up to the data.

Like I said – I know there is ignorance in my last statement there – but my point being; actual “depth” shouldn’t be all that hard once that game is programmed properly, it is just in the data file to make the races at that point.

And this is the same people that has made Panzer Corps and Commander, so I would imagine – and expect – to have that kind of mass quantity of units (with depth) that are easily punched in to a data file. So hopefully we can be optimistic and have the quantity and quality that both you and I would like to see.

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RE: 35 different? - 4/30/2012 1:31:15 AM   
wodin


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Well each race will have different types of units I expect and different modifiers in combat and diplomacy and resources and magic etc etc. What your saying would mean the races factions would hardly have any differences in which would then make them pretty pointless. You need to make each race and faction different and make it so you have to play the game differently or deal with different issues\challenges due to them being good at things maybe others aren't good at..i.e elves are great with combat in forests and bows however don't have lots of say mining resources.

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RE: 35 different? - 4/30/2012 3:26:18 AM   
Xerkis


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I mean all those difference – including those you mean as well. And those differences that you speak of can be (or should be able to be) handled by simple data in file. And that would be quick and easy set up of the races.

. . . . . . But it is all conjecture on both our parts – we will have to wait and see. . . . . . . .  Or if a Dev would jump in here and help shed some light on the subject.


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RE: 35 different? - 4/30/2012 7:29:18 AM   
martok


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I'm very much okay with 35 factions, especially in SP!  Makes for a more epic-feeling campaign.  If the game has more breadth than depth in this area, I can live with it. 



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RE: 35 different? - 4/30/2012 9:31:18 AM   
wodin


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It's not a massive issue. Just seems an awful lot of work to make them feel different enough and also as I said I want the faction I play with to have loads of content, aslong as it doesn't take away to much development time from making individual factions be as fully fledged as they could be I'm cool with it.

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RE: 35 different? - 4/30/2012 9:33:19 AM   
wodin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xerkis

I mean all those difference – including those you mean as well. And those differences that you speak of can be (or should be able to be) handled by simple data in file. And that would be quick and easy set up of the races.

. . . . . . But it is all conjecture on both our parts – we will have to wait and see. . . . . . . .  Or if a Dev would jump in here and help shed some light on the subject.





true but think of the balance testing issues, not only do you have to make them different from each other you also have to make sure it all more or less balances out. Plus artwork assets. I expect as with alot of things in game design what people think should easy is alot more complex than they imagine.

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RE: 35 different? - 4/30/2012 11:46:03 AM   
Xerkis


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Ah yes, and that is why I even openly stated above about the artwork having to catch up and that my statement was from my own admitted ignorance.

I’m a programmer by trade and have been for more years then I care to admit – so I don’t see that it would be hard at all to do what you ask. And I can think of tons of ways to do it easily enough. But that is just in that data area – how to pull it together with graphics that go along with that data; no idea on that. And without that part of it. . . . . the data is pointless. And that is where again I repeat; my ignorance in bringing it all together and what that takes to do that overlooks how difficult of a task it might be.

But let me also say again – these are the same people that did Panzer Corps and Commander, and back at this stage in those game’s creation we might have had this same chat. But they pull it off perfectly with those games – I can expect nothing less here.

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RE: 35 different? - 4/30/2012 12:30:39 PM   
wodin


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Xerkis..a programmer...hmm..it's a real long thread but if you can do please read my thread Calling all developers in the general discussion forum. Just read my posts, no need to bother with the others, and try and imagine the game design I have in mind.

The first post description though is abit off putting, it's isn't a monster wargame as such, it's a 4x grand strategy fantasy game but with a very unique combat engine, the combat engine feels like a eureka moment, so much so I'm thinking of giving it ago. It's's the combat engine I want to develop first then the grand strategy afterwards.

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