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Battleships at Start of War

 
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Battleships at Start of War - 4/29/2012 6:12:09 AM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 14610
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		I once was told (by Mifune I think) that US ships tend to start the war with
guns not yet in service, such as 40 mm and 20 mm - and no mg. In
preparing to release Revision 4 of RHS files (still in development)
I decided to look at the US Battleships, just in case. Sure enough,
not one had the right suite of light AA guns. Further, the distribution
of the guns sometimes had them pointing "all sides" - which is not
easy to do on a big ship! All mods based on stock for ships (as RHS was)
should check this if you care about the light AAA being correct.

Remember the famous scenes in various movies with the black sailor,
who wins a medal, manning a .50? In order to do that, the ship needs
to have .50s!

< Message edited by el cid again -- 4/30/2012 4:21:18 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: US Battleships at Start of War - 4/29/2012 2:17:39 PM   
ckammp

 

Posts: 746
Joined: 5/30/2009
From: Rear Area training facility
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I once was told (by Mifune I think) that US ships tend to start the war with
guns not yet in service, such as 40 mm and 20 mm - and no mg. In
preparing to release Revision 4 of RHS files (still in development)
I decided to look at the US Battleships, just in case. Sure enough,
not one had the right suite of light AA guns. Further, the distribution
of the guns sometimes had them pointing "all sides" - which is not
easy to do on a big ship! All mods based on stock for ships (as RHS was)
should check this if you care about the light AAA being correct.

Remember the famous scenes in various movies with the black sailor,
who wins a medal, manning a .50? In order to do that, the ship needs
to have .50s!


Which US battleships at start have 40mm or 20mm guns?
Which US battleships at start don't have .50s?

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 2
RE: US Battleships at Start of War - 4/29/2012 3:20:34 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 14610
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		Stock data to current release standards:

Colorado starts with 20 mm but also has 50 cals

Mississippi starts with both 40 mm and 20 mm and no .50s

It appears the current release data has .50s on the rest.
While my data began with scenario 1 data, it was long ago,
and revised by someone else before I began RHS work in AE -
and so there isn't as much a problem as I assumed there was.


(in reply to ckammp)
Post #: 3
RE: US Battleships at Start of War - 4/29/2012 8:10:41 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 14610
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		HMS Repulse at the time of her loss had

9 4 inch QFG in triple mountings (not 12 like Renown had)
3 right side
3 left side
3 rear

8 4 inch AA guns
4 mounted in two twins aft
4 mounted in singles, 2 right side, 2 left side

24 2 pounders in octuple mountings
8 right side
8 left side
8 rear

16 mg
possibly 8 on a side - but disposition not shown in line drawings available

current stock data is 12 4 inch QFG in triples - half on each side
8 4 inch AA - all in twins - half on each side - instead of half in singles and half in twins superfiring to rear
9 20 mm bearing all sides - which is impossible on a large ship and which she never mounted

HMS Renown is also shown with 20mm - and no MG - but in fact she had 16 mg and no 20 mm at the time
the Pacific war began - although eventually she mounted 62 20mm (1945 count) - not the 10 shown in 1941
nor the 64 shown in the 1943 upgrade
These 20 mm do NOT replace the 16 mg but are "in addition" (Breyer, Schlachtshiffe und Schalftkreutzer)

She is correctly shown with 20 4.5 inch AFG in 1941
but does not retain them all as shown in the upgrade - reducing the count to only 8 - in all cases twins
half on each side

The two pounders are correct at 24 in octuples in 1941,
but again go wrong in the upgrade - which retains them - just like the MG were retained -
not reduced and changed in disposition as listed in current stock data

< Message edited by el cid again -- 4/29/2012 8:21:01 PM >

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 4
RE: US Battleships at Start of War - 4/29/2012 8:24:48 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 14610
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		Queen Elisabeth is improperly listed with 4 inch AA
she had been rearmed with 4.5 inch - 20 in twins, half on a side

Also 32 two pounders in octuples and 16 mg - half on a side
Stock correctly lists the two pounders, but shows lots of 20 mm vice the MG
for the 1941 outfit

The only ship in theater to use the configuration sans 20 mm is HMS
Valiant - but both ships had the 4.5 inch AA rather than the 4 inch shown
(and used by all other members of the former QE class, as well
as some or all Revenge class ships)

< Message edited by el cid again -- 4/29/2012 8:42:44 PM >

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 5
RE: US Battleships at Start of War - 4/29/2012 8:57:33 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 14610
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		Royal Sovereign Class - 4 units in the game -
uniformly fail to show the 8 naval mg -
and incorrectly list 20 mm

But these ships upgrade to 40 mm - shown incorrectly for
other classes - and not shown at all here!
Should be 8 to 12 40 mm in singles and quads plus 8 20 mm
presumably replacing the 8 mg

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 6
RE: Battleships at Start of War - 4/30/2012 9:34:23 PM   
inqistor


Posts: 1214
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Remember the famous scenes in various movies with the black sailor,
who wins a medal, manning a .50? In order to do that, the ship needs
to have .50s!

Scene seems to be too smart, to be idea of average war-flick screenwriter, so it have to be historical.

I know of at least TWO such occurrences in Pearl Harbor.

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 7
RE: Battleships at Start of War - 5/1/2012 5:21:46 AM   
dwg

 

Posts: 265
Joined: 1/22/2008
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Remember the famous scenes in various movies with the black sailor,
who wins a medal, manning a .50? In order to do that, the ship needs
to have .50s!

Scene seems to be too smart, to be idea of average war-flick screenwriter, so it have to be historical.

I know of at least TWO such occurrences in Pearl Harbor.


Dorie Miller on the West Virginia being the one that shows up in the movies.

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 8
RE: Battleships at Start of War - 5/2/2012 8:46:45 AM   
inqistor


Posts: 1214
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dwg

quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Remember the famous scenes in various movies with the black sailor,
who wins a medal, manning a .50? In order to do that, the ship needs
to have .50s!

Scene seems to be too smart, to be idea of average war-flick screenwriter, so it have to be historical.

I know of at least TWO such occurrences in Pearl Harbor.


Dorie Miller on the West Virginia being the one that shows up in the movies.

Yup, seems to be most common.

I have also read about other black sailor, who was not trained in operating AAMGs, and began shooting on its own initiative. Problem is, he did not know to turn on cooling, and MG melted quickly. He could probably face court, but I think he died during attack, or soon after.

(in reply to dwg)
Post #: 9
RE: Battleships at Start of War - 5/3/2012 12:46:16 AM   
bigred


Posts: 2611
Joined: 12/27/2007
Status: offline 		Interesting: Doris Miller
Nickname "Dorie"
Born October 12, 1919
Waco, Texas
Died November 24, 1943 (aged 24)
Gilbert Islands, Gilbert and Ellice Islands
Allegiance United States of America
Service/branch United States Navy
Years of service 1939-1943
Rank Cook 3rd Class
Battles/wars World War II
*Attack on Pearl Harbor
*Battle of Tarawa
*Operation Galvanic
Awards Navy Cross
Purple Heart

I would bet the navy used this to help break the color barrier.







Attachment (1)

< Message edited by bigred -- 5/3/2012 12:49:35 AM >

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 10
RE: Battleships at Start of War - 5/3/2012 9:44:01 AM   
YankeeAirRat


Posts: 623
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline
One of the recuriting posters that the US Navy generated. Althought Miller was pushed up to the front and rather it took a few others to help to break the barrier. Such as Ens. Jesse L. Brown and the USS Mason, DE-529. If you want to read about the USS Mason, then check out this book: "Proudly We Serve: The men of the USS Mason"

_____________________________

Take my word for it. You never want to be involved in an “International Incident”.

(in reply to bigred)
Post #: 11
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