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Operation Swiss Navy - Downfall

 
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Operation Swiss Navy - Downfall - 4/27/2012 12:54:49 AM   
GI Jive

 

Posts: 79
Joined: 10/30/2005
Status: offline 		I had previously seen on-line that the U.S. was planning to convert old cargo ships into decoy flakships to lure out the kamikazes before the actual Downfall landings. This link http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10013299 is the first I've seen the phrase "Operation Swiss Navy" used. Does anyone have more info on this project (what types of ships, how many, what would the armament have been, etc.). The site includes a link on navsource with a picture of a 110' SC modified to look like an escort carrier.
Post #: 1
RE: Operation Swiss Navy - Downfall - 4/27/2012 1:31:10 AM   
Knavey

 

Posts: 2962
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Valrico, Florida
Status: offline 		Some really good photos if you just sort of free surf some of their links.



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RE: Operation Swiss Navy - Downfall - 4/27/2012 7:23:19 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 11994
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		Wonder who would want to crew those kamikaze baits.

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RE: Operation Swiss Navy - Downfall - 4/27/2012 8:15:58 AM   
Smeulders

 

Posts: 1871
Joined: 8/9/2009
Status: offline 		"Converting" old cargo ships to CVEs would be dead to all aboard, but this seems to be a sub chaser. Of course they'd go down if hit once, but hitting one would be rather hard, especially if crammed full of AA. I'm wondering how they'd have to play their decoy role though, wouldn't the size difference be very obvious as soon as they were anywhere near other ships ?

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RE: Operation Swiss Navy - Downfall - 4/27/2012 9:21:51 AM   
YankeeAirRat


Posts: 623
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		I read about this when I read, Hell to Pay: Operation Downfall and the Invasion of Japan, the idea was that these ships would be placed near the planned invasion beaches and near the planned artifical anchroages the US was going to create out of sunken cargo ships. These "flak-bait" ships were going to look like the invasion fleet and instead be loaded to bear in a fixed postion with all manner fo 40mm, 3in/70's, 5in/38's, 20mm and all other types of guns. The idea based on how the Japanese reacted while the US fleet was off Okinawa and to a lesser extent off the Philippines; the poorly trained pilots were diving on DE's, DDR's, DD's and other smaller ships thinking they were the CA's, BBs, CV's of the main battle fleet. So to exploit that and hopefully save the real ships these have sunked, older ships would be sacrificed in an attempt to save the main fleet since on a whole the invasion planning was running into issues with finding merchant tonnage to carry all the supplies to sustain the fleet and land operations.

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RE: Operation Swiss Navy - Downfall - 4/27/2012 12:30:05 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 2579
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Didn't DD and DE operated as picket ships already? They were a sort of kamikaze magnet.

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RE: Operation Swiss Navy - Downfall - 4/27/2012 12:56:58 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 39886
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		And the radar pickey destroyers at Okinawa thought they had ****ty jobs...

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RE: Operation Swiss Navy - Downfall - 4/27/2012 12:58:10 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 39886
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

"Converting" old cargo ships to CVEs would be dead to all aboard, but this seems to be a sub chaser. Of course they'd go down if hit once, but hitting one would be rather hard, especially if crammed full of AA. I'm wondering how they'd have to play their decoy role though, wouldn't the size difference be very obvious as soon as they were anywhere near other ships ?


Think that would be the point, namely that they wouldn't be near other ships. Also, the quality of the kamikaze pilots was so lousy, it'd probably work.

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RE: Operation Swiss Navy - Downfall - 4/27/2012 2:01:04 PM   
Smeulders

 

Posts: 1871
Joined: 8/9/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

"Converting" old cargo ships to CVEs would be dead to all aboard, but this seems to be a sub chaser. Of course they'd go down if hit once, but hitting one would be rather hard, especially if crammed full of AA. I'm wondering how they'd have to play their decoy role though, wouldn't the size difference be very obvious as soon as they were anywhere near other ships ?


Think that would be the point, namely that they wouldn't be near other ships. Also, the quality of the kamikaze pilots was so lousy, it'd probably work.


Good point, though then you'd also need other ships dressed up to look like BB/CA/DD, a true midget fleet. Just had another look at the photo, the scale is great, notice the guy on the "flightdeck" who's almost as tall as the island. The aerial picture does look convincing though, should be enough to fool a scared trainee who doesn't know how big ships are supposed to look from up in the air.

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RE: Operation Swiss Navy - Downfall - 4/27/2012 3:28:26 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 1362
Joined: 6/3/2006
Status: offline 		I agree, unless you had a yard stick alongside the ship, from the air it would be VERY difficult to tell it was a decoy. Reminds me of Q-Ships, not a fun assignment....

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Post #: 10
RE: Operation Swiss Navy - Downfall - 4/27/2012 3:58:56 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 14820
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

"Converting" old cargo ships to CVEs would be dead to all aboard, but this seems to be a sub chaser. Of course they'd go down if hit once, but hitting one would be rather hard, especially if crammed full of AA. I'm wondering how they'd have to play their decoy role though, wouldn't the size difference be very obvious as soon as they were anywhere near other ships ?


Think that would be the point, namely that they wouldn't be near other ships. Also, the quality of the kamikaze pilots was so lousy, it'd probably work.


Furthermore, with a little bit of creative pre-positioning, the Allies could position the ships offshore near where they wanted to make a breakwater or artificial harbor. Anchor them in place, evacuate the crew and let the kamikazes do the sinking for you.

ETA: I would bet that it would be difficult to hit what with the odd perspective / size distortion.

Great pictures, good find. Thanks for sharing.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 4/27/2012 4:03:28 PM >

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