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Request to Any Developers.. - 4/25/2012 11:39:29 PM   
wodin


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Please does anyone want to develop a grog style cross between grand strategy and 4x fantasy game with the kind of hardcoreness of WITE\WITP i.e a monster game.

I for one would pounce on it. Make it dark and grim with as much realism as you can do taking into account it's a fantasy game. A sort of twisted middle ages, but make it a real big deep grog style game. Through in loads of chrome\lore\management\diplomacy\disasters (including angry gods)\massive battles (not RTS nonesense though, but every individual soldier\creature accounted for in the combat mechanics, you set the formations, choose the commanders\give them SOP's and overall orders\give your magic users a role in battle that suits their training etc etc). Research new tactics and weapons and formations etc. Research magic and train wizards\mages\priests.

What I want is a "monster" fantasy game. No rock paper scissors mechanics, but using an in depth ancient operational wargame mechanic for the combat, and throw in the grand strategy side and kingdom management.

Think Dom 3 with proper operational\grand tactical style combat and oodles of chrome.

I have a really great idea on how the combat will play out. Think top down view. Troops will be in blocks, colour will depend on unit type, shape will change depending on formation, size will also change depending on how many troops are in the unit. Also each will have a coat of arms next to it of it's commander. If you set a formation for the whole army (that you've already learnt and practiced in)then the blocks will arrange themselves into that formation (think those old Napoleonic wooden block games or drawings of sketched out by commanders on maps. Now your fromation will be as effective as the amount of training your troops have ha din it and also commander stats will come into play aswell both for the whole army (Top commander stats) down to each unit (say pikemen commander stats). Obviously there will be army formations and if you want you can set individual unit formations (handy in smaller battles or say if a unit gets isolated etc. You then set all the orders you want to your its as I mentioned further up. Then you let the battle play out (I think Histwar les Grignards does something similar). What you will see is the blcoks moving following your overall initial orders and also taking into account how good the commander is and how much experience the untis have etc etc. During the battle you will have three chances to issue new commands. Again the whole thing will play out and the results will all be down to the battlefield terrian\your formations\your training\your commanders\moral and your overall attack plans. or you can auto resolve.

< Message edited by wodin -- 4/27/2012 1:37:28 PM >


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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/26/2012 12:03:12 AM   
nate25


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I don't like fantasy/magic type stuff (but to each their own).

However I think a game about The Lord of The Rings like what you're talking about would be cool.

Those books got detailed about maps, weapons, etc. at times.

Just a thought. I don't know what getting permission to use those ideas would be like, probably expensive.

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/26/2012 12:05:22 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Please does anyone want to develop a grog style fantasy game sort of the WITP or WITE fantasy game.

I for one would pounce on it. Make it dark and grim with as much realism as you can do taking into account it's a fantasy game. A sort of twisted middle ages, but make it a real big deep grog style game. Through in loads of chrome\lore\management\diplomacy\disasters (including angry gods)\massive battles (not RTS nonesense though, but every individual soldier\creature accounted for in the combat mechanics, you set the formations, choose the commanders\give them SOP's and overall orders\give your magic users a role in battle that suits their training etc etc). Research new tactics and weapons and formations etc. Research magic and train wizards\mages\priests.

What I want is a "monster" fantasy game. No rock paper scissors mechanics, but using an in depth ancient operational wargame mechanic for the combat, and throw in the grand strategy side and kingdom management.

Think Dom 3 with proper operational\grand tactical style combat and oodles of chrome.

I have a really great idea on how the combat will play out. Think top down view. Troops will be in blocks, colour will depend on unit type, shape will change depending on formation, size will also change depending on how many troops are in the unit. Also each will have a coat of arms next to it of it's commander. If you set a formation for the whole army (that you've already learnt and practiced in)then the blocks will arrange themselves into that formation (think those old Napoleonic wooden block games or drawings of sketched out by commanders on maps. Now your fromation will be as effective as the amount of training your troops have ha din it and also commander stats will come into play aswell both for the whole army (Top commander stats) down to each unit (say pikemen commander stats). Obviously there will be army formations and if you want you can set individual unit formations (handy in smaller battles or say if a unit gets isolated etc. You then set all the orders you want to your its as I mentioned further up. Then you let the battle play out (I think Histwar les Grignards does something similar). What you will see is the blcoks moving following your overall initial orders and also taking into account how good the commander is and how much experience the untis have etc etc. During the battle you will have three chances to issue new commands. Again the whole thing will play out and the results will all be down to the battlefield terrian\your formations\your training\your commanders\moral and your overall attack plans. or you can auto resolve.
Warspite1

No. Personally, I do not want any fantasy games; I want wargames; and specifcally MWIF PLEASE

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/26/2012 1:18:19 AM   
wodin


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I'm talking about a wargame in a fantasy setting. I wouldn't want magic to be a major aspect. Think a mix of Norse\Roman\High Fantasy\Classical creatures i.e minotaurs etc.

We have plenty of wargames here. We don't have a fantasy wargame and we certainly have never had what I envision here. Which is a major wargame in a fantasy\mythical\classical setting.

Sometimes it feels like people enjoy pissing on others cornflakes on forums. I wasn't after a debate or a poll. I was reaching out to a developer and to those who would enjoy this sort of game. Can't we have a thread about something original without everyone chiming in asking for a another WW2 or or atypical wargame.

If you want a game made make a thread for it.

If you read my post and see where I'm coming from you will see what I'm asking for is a WARGAME, though not one you'd have seen before.

< Message edited by wodin -- 4/26/2012 1:22:54 AM >


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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/26/2012 9:52:54 AM   
Perturabo


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Sounds nice.

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/26/2012 1:10:54 PM   
wodin


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Thanks mate. I can picture it in my head and I know it will be something that would appeal to not just fantasy gamers but wargamers aswell.

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/26/2012 3:38:52 PM   
doomtrader


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So looks like you have been heard

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/26/2012 6:17:57 PM   
wodin


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All I want is someone to listen to me Doomtrader, it's all I've ever wanted.

Actually while your here, how about it? I will fill you on on the overall plan and your crew can develop and expand it;) You've got the Time of Fury engine, thats a basis to work on.

< Message edited by wodin -- 4/26/2012 6:19:55 PM >


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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/26/2012 9:44:12 PM   
Platoon Crusher


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Please does anyone want to develop a grog style fantasy game sort of the WITP or WITE fantasy game.

I for one would pounce on it. Make it dark and grim with as much realism as you can do taking into account it's a fantasy game. A sort of twisted middle ages, but make it a real big deep grog style game. Through in loads of chrome\lore\management\diplomacy\disasters (including angry gods)\massive battles (not RTS nonesense though, but every individual soldier\creature accounted for in the combat mechanics, you set the formations, choose the commanders\give them SOP's and overall orders\give your magic users a role in battle that suits their training etc etc). Research new tactics and weapons and formations etc. Research magic and train wizards\mages\priests.

What I want is a "monster" fantasy game. No rock paper scissors mechanics, but using an in depth ancient operational wargame mechanic for the combat, and throw in the grand strategy side and kingdom management.

Think Dom 3 with proper operational\grand tactical style combat and oodles of chrome.

I have a really great idea on how the combat will play out. Think top down view. Troops will be in blocks, colour will depend on unit type, shape will change depending on formation, size will also change depending on how many troops are in the unit. Also each will have a coat of arms next to it of it's commander. If you set a formation for the whole army (that you've already learnt and practiced in)then the blocks will arrange themselves into that formation (think those old Napoleonic wooden block games or drawings of sketched out by commanders on maps. Now your fromation will be as effective as the amount of training your troops have ha din it and also commander stats will come into play aswell both for the whole army (Top commander stats) down to each unit (say pikemen commander stats). Obviously there will be army formations and if you want you can set individual unit formations (handy in smaller battles or say if a unit gets isolated etc. You then set all the orders you want to your its as I mentioned further up. Then you let the battle play out (I think Histwar les Grignards does something similar). What you will see is the blcoks moving following your overall initial orders and also taking into account how good the commander is and how much experience the untis have etc etc. During the battle you will have three chances to issue new commands. Again the whole thing will play out and the results will all be down to the battlefield terrian\your formations\your training\your commanders\moral and your overall attack plans. or you can auto resolve.



I can be very interested a game such as this if it would play like a Total War game with a strategic layer over a tactical battle layer.

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/26/2012 11:59:26 PM   
wodin


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No, no RTS 3D battles here. The two images show how I'd like the fighting to look like roughly, but the shapes will change depending on formation and the maoun of troops I.e Wedge formation the shape will become a wedge. Also different colours for different races\unit types. A cpat of arms next to each unit. All animated. Lets say a formation gets broken up then the shape will start to split up etc etc.











Attachment (3)

< Message edited by wodin -- 4/27/2012 12:08:20 AM >


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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/27/2012 12:41:16 AM   
Platoon Crusher


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I see. That is nothing like what I pictured. I never played anything like that before. Could be interesting. but if it is supposed to be fantasy based then what are the graphics to be like? You say no to 3d and I assume any battles would be turn based tactical? How would the units look? If they are shapes according to formations then fantasy base could really be anything without the units actually looking like what they represent? Curious.

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/27/2012 7:14:56 AM   
doomtrader


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wodin,

Such a game would require too many changes, so it is better to develop a new one.
Anyway developing the new game is an issue of market demand. If you think that people want something and will buy something, then you are creating a game. For an indie developer first unsuccessful project means also the last one.

Unfortunately I'm not a US citizen, so I can't start Kickstarter project so be sure there is an enough demand for such game.

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/27/2012 12:07:04 PM   
wodin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoon Crusher

I see. That is nothing like what I pictured. I never played anything like that before. Could be interesting. but if it is supposed to be fantasy based then what are the graphics to be like? You say no to 3d and I assume any battles would be turn based tactical? How would the units look? If they are shapes according to formations then fantasy base could really be anything without the units actually looking like what they represent? Curious.



The images above are how I imagine the battles to look. If you read my post you will see you have no actual direct control of units as such. Similar to Dom 3. However you do set orders and formations and SOP's at the start of the battle to your unit commanders and overall plan to your Amry commander. You could also I suppose say have the chance lets say three times to give out urgent orders during the battle. The battle boils down to training\experience\moral\unit type\commander stats\initial orders and SOP's\pre battle intel even i.e if you know the land your fighting on or lets say your main army commander fought the enemy commander a few times before and beat him you could get a combat modifier which works both ways so it makes you think alot about your army commander and their abilities. Lets say you've been training this particular army in certain formations your effectiveness in percentage would go up with each unit to show that they are improving in that particular formation, new formations and tactics will come available over time through tech advancements and even captured enemy intel. Another coo, idea is that you may be able to make up your own formations and then train in them and then the time will come to see if your ideas work on the battelfield and if all the training was worth it, this would add alot of interest to the combat and give endless different combat styles and battlefield tactics.What your doing in sense is not rely on how good you are at a real time combat game but how good your kingdom is doing and how good your commanders are and tech and training etc all of which depend on how well your doing on the grand strategy part.

Each block will be colour coded to say what type they are. Also each unit will have a caot of arms which will distinguish the commander and race. Or even each block could have written on it the race and type of unit, or tooltips and pop ups could be used to give you more info i.e state of moral\troops remainig\effectievness etc. Also different races will be better at different types of combat. The combat will be sort of based on ancient to middle ages warfare. Some races may field lots of soldiers in one formation but not be disciplined whereas others may prefer fighting in smaller formations but be highly disciplined and more effective fighters. Lots to think about and endless possibilities all to make the combat exciting\interesting and very strategy\tactical based even though during the actual combat you have little actual hands on input as it gets underway.

The main game is grand strategy an would obviously look different to the pics above. Those are how I imagine you'd see the battle play out.

< Message edited by wodin -- 4/27/2012 12:19:20 PM >


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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/27/2012 3:11:42 PM   
Mobius


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So is each small block a Division? They seemed too few to be battalions. As that was a large battle with several corps on each side.

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/27/2012 3:29:15 PM   
Iain McNeil


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It sounds really interesting but my concern with this idea is that it seems to be one persons perfect game (which is what it is!) and that often means its pushed in to a very specific niche. The number of people who want to play a mega game is relatively small, and of those what percentage want a fantasy setting? My guess is that most people who want a mega game want a historical one. E.g. for me I'd like a fantasy strategy game but not one on this scale. It's just too much to handle and I'd never find the time to play turns. I think it targets a niche within a niche so would struggle to sell and be very hard to make its money back. Also the cost of developing a mega game is significantly higher than other games so you have to make more money so the combination of smaller audience and more development costs make this a game that is only likely to be made by a fan as a labour of love in my opinion, but I've been wrong before!

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/27/2012 3:34:31 PM   
2ndACR


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I would like to see the old Battles of Napoleon by SSI get new life breathed into it.

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/27/2012 3:36:01 PM   
pzgndr

 

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quote:

4x fantasy game with the kind of hardcoreness of WITE\WITP


It would have to be 100% historically accurate and realistic. I mean, red dragons that are supposed to be able to fly 30 mph and breathe fire up to 100m had better be able to do that, else the game totally falls apart and is unplayable. And then there's the play balance issues...

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/27/2012 4:21:26 PM   
M J R

 

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Wodin, a game that sprung to mind reading through your explanation was Hegemony Philip of Macedon, its obviously not a high fantasy themed game but has a lot of what you have discribed in your game although not as in depth and this plays out in pauseable realtime wher i think you prefered turn based.
I always wished someone would have modded a Lord Of The Rings version of it or a high fantasy type with a more open ended 4x style, anyway check it out.

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/27/2012 4:25:45 PM   
kafka

 

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quote:

Unfortunately I'm not a US citizen, so I can't start Kickstarter project so be sure there is an enough demand for such game.


actually there are quite a few projects by non-US developers on kickstarter, i.e.

Legends of Pegasus by a Aterdux, a Belorus indie developer

in any case, I would certainly support such a project, a TW kind of game with operational level battles would be a dream come true





< Message edited by kafka -- 4/27/2012 4:28:53 PM >

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/27/2012 4:28:33 PM   
kafka

 

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btw Hegemony Philip of Macedon by Longbow is indeed a great game though I prefer TB too, the sequel Hegemony Rome is in development and due this summer

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/27/2012 4:52:43 PM   
undercovergeek

 

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wodin, could you mod any preexisting game?

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/27/2012 5:50:01 PM   
Iain McNeil


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I think a mod is a great way to go with this idea.

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/27/2012 7:26:24 PM   
wodin


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@ Mobius, I'm not sure to be honest, those images where just trying to show people how the battle side of things would look rather than it beign a 3D or RTS game.

The game wouldn't really be super complex or huge in scale. You wouldn't have hundreds of units on the grand strat map, maybe 50 tops, each comprising of 10 to 15 formations. It would all be down to the UI to streamline the whole thing. Dominions 3 gets it to a point, just the abttle engine is poor. Thats what I'd change with the thoughts above.

I suppose saying it's a monster game is possibly going to far but it certainly would be a Fantasy wargame which I feel would bring in the Fantasy lovers and Wargamers, plus the 4x folks. Dominions managed, enough for them to make three game sin the series. I just feel it could be imporved, not so much the expand and conquer side but definitely the way the battles play and look.


As for modding, doubtful, automated combat where you give orders then watch the show set in a fantasy setting with 4X gameplay. Modding a game already is great if you have solid ideas of what you want todo i.e a LOTR total war mod. I haven't got an desire or particular subject i wnat to see in a game. It's more an idea on how I'd like to see a fantasy wargame made lore and canon being secondary.

I suppose you could take Distant Worlds, set in on land, change the whole setting to fantasy based and see how to work the combat...though you may aswell make it from scratch. I can't think of a single game that plays out combat how I've described expect maybe Les Grognards from what I've read. I've seen screenshots of the overall battlefield map in that game looking how I've described this, yet you have no Grand Strategy element to it.

I think what would have to happen is get the combat down and working properly even if it's just basic to start with and then playaround with it. Then go onto the 4X gameplay. You see I'd have to have help in doing the lore and all that side of things as I haven't thought about that only the tech aspect of the overall design. I'd like to see the Shape\Formation gameplay running though. That maybe be good enough to expand on it's own into a straight wargame without all the 4x side of things or make that side basic. Lets put it this way if you think of formations in ancient and middle age warfare they are all about shapes. So if you researched all the different formations and analysed the strength and weaknesses I expect you be able to apply mathematical formulas to them, so in effect as you change the shape the formulas will change for it's over all strength of it's sides, a circle obviously being average all round with no real weak side but no hard hitting side either so great if surrounded, a wedge would work ou as being great to cut and divide a formation. A rectangle will be great forward power but very weak sides so rubbish if flanked, in effect the smaller surface area the weaker the side. Then you'd have some odd shapes like the roman turtle for great protection from all sides and above from arrows (you'd have to work out a shape for that one!). You have to factor in armour and weapon type aswell once you've got the shape behaving properly.

I have to reiterate though again the battles would be played out once you've set he formations and given the commanders initial orders, after that you have no input, or maybe get say two chances to issue orders at a time of your choosing. So the grand strategy part of it could either be turn base or wego.

The biggest headache would be balance, however some great Fantasy games weren't balanced that well but offered so much in tinkering and content it didn't matter like Master of Magic. However obviously nit all games can get away with it.

Also it would live or die on how good it's TAC AI was. It would have to be good.

Anyway it's all pie in the sky.

< Message edited by wodin -- 4/27/2012 8:38:17 PM >


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Post #: 23
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/28/2012 12:10:34 AM   
Perturabo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

wodin,

Such a game would require too many changes, so it is better to develop a new one.
Anyway developing the new game is an issue of market demand. If you think that people want something and will buy something, then you are creating a game. For an indie developer first unsuccessful project means also the last one.

Unfortunately I'm not a US citizen, so I can't start Kickstarter project so be sure there is an enough demand for such game.

http://www.indiegogo.com

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Post #: 24
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/29/2012 11:57:17 PM   
wodin


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Anyone in the know and have read my ideas on the shape\formation combat (shapes can be moved and warped about and the stats will change depending on surface areas and weapons to give a player load sot experiment with etc etc) recommend a programming language or software that may be able to create this?

I seriously think I maybe onto something here and keep thinking about it all the time, the more I think the more it makes sense and feels like it could be something quite special. Even if it takes me a few years to get it working I'm fine with that.

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Post #: 25
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/30/2012 2:03:17 AM   
Hertston


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

It sounds really interesting but my concern with this idea is that it seems to be one persons perfect game (which is what it is!) and that often means its pushed in to a very specific niche. The number of people who want to play a mega game is relatively small, and of those what percentage want a fantasy setting? My guess is that most people who want a mega game want a historical one.


Absolutely. That niche would find an audience, but it would be a small one. Those games demand so much time and there is a sort of in-built resistance to those not 'real world'; maybe it's the historical element we use to justify spending that time, I don't know. The only thing likely to drum up a large enough audience by hauling in the gaming periphery (I can see the D&D folks being hooked) would be a LotR license, but the cost of that would be totally unaffordable, I suspect, even without some idiot suits being unable to distinguish between this sort of project's likely return and that of your typical hexbox licensed LotR clickfest.

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Post #: 26
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/30/2012 2:46:10 AM   
wodin


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Well I can see the game I have in mind appealing to all those Fantasy Strategy and HOMM type game players and general fantasy geeks aswell as the general 4x crowd and also anyone into ancient\middle ages warfare and mythology. Infact if this combat idea works (thats the focus of my design thoughts at the moment) it could well bring people into wargaming and the more serious historical stuff especially Ancient warfare.

It's really hard to get over what I mean on the net. I'd need to either draw it to show what I'm getting at or make some kind of quick demo of how it would work say using power point or something. It's a unique take yet something that also makes sense and gives the player endless hours of formation tweaking if they want to get the best out of their troops. Sort of a sandbox tactics tester in game. Plus it wont be graphically intensive which is the beauty of it being a indie development. Yet it will still look cool and show it's obvious wargame routes but also exciting to watch.

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(in reply to Hertston)
Post #: 27
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/30/2012 6:25:07 AM   
mgarnett

 

Posts: 237
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
Hi Wodin,

I suppose the question is, do you have any coding experience, as that could well determine the best tool for the task. I have experience with several game engines/coding libraries so I'll list a few of the better ones here:

- Unity, free for the indie version and is primarily designed for 3D games, but it handles 2D just as well and can be scripted with C#
- C4, a great engine but you'll really need some C++ experience here and it's not free but not too expensive either
- Truevision 3D, not really developed any more but still sold and is very easy to use, accessed via dotNET
- 3D Gamestudio, pretty easy to use but uses a version of C called Lite C, again not free but not that expensive either

I would seriously advise against designing your own engine from scratch if you can at all help it.

Cheers

Mark

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 28
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/30/2012 8:32:20 AM   
wodin


Posts: 7867
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: online
Well I was going to try and see if I could do a simple version using game maker. Then if it did work go and make it properly in Unity.

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(in reply to mgarnett)
Post #: 29
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/30/2012 8:39:43 AM   
wodin


Posts: 7867
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: online
Just thought on something. Gratuitous Space Battles has a sort of similar concept where all the decisions are made pre battle then you watch it pan out. Though you wont be watching space ships obviously but something similar to the screeshots further up.

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(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 30
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