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How to stop nightly SC TF or BB TF (NO Indy 58!!)

 
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How to stop nightly SC TF or BB TF (NO Indy 58!!) - 4/25/2012 1:52:00 PM   
ny59giants


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OK, Here is the situation. I'm Japan at the end of July 43. The game has been slow paced for the most part since my opponent, Indy 58, lost a few CVs earlier in 43. He will not launch any aircraft for days (or weeks) and then some either here in India/Burma (mainly 4e bombers) or when I re-supply Port Hedland. I have the Frank just coming out in numbers (180/month) this month along with George and Tojo all over the place.

For the last month or so, any attempt to re-supply Cox's Bazar and/or Akyab with a Fast Transport of Ansyu PBs is met with his SC TF sortie from Calcutta. They seem to come out at Full Speed and are safely back in port by the next day. I had used my 2 CA, CL, and 8 DDs stationed at Rangoon to escort a large convoy bringing in some RF Guns and pulling out a shattered division without getting attack.

I have A6M3a Zero, Judy, Kate, Tojo, George, and Frank at Akyab and Cox's Bazar. I have plenty of Helens and some Nell further in Burma highly trained. The second generation Jill will be available in a few days with its lower Service Rating and longer range. My fighters more than hold their own against whatever he sends for fighters.

The BIG question is how to slow down and/or stop his 4 CA, CL, 6 DD SC TF or BB TF missions that can hit anything at Akyab as his naval search sees it coming?? I have placed a sub there (just got DC last turn) and a minefield. A Fast TF got hit last turn, then the base was bombarded (no damage!!), sub attacked, and he still ended movement phase back at Calcutta.

A side issue is how to keep those bases well supplied and then feed the army in the field to the east of them?? We are using the modified Pwhex files so stacking limits are in effect.

Thanks!!




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< Message edited by ny59giants -- 4/25/2012 1:54:33 PM >

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RE: How to stop nightly SC TF or BB TF (NO Indy 58!!) - 4/25/2012 2:57:43 PM   
witpqs

 

Posts: 12400
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		AFAIK Calcutta has a size limit on ships due to being upriver a bit. So, I'm surprised to hear about BB (or CA?) there. Could they be different ships at Calcutta?

Having said that, I've been on the opposite side of consistently receiving IJN bombardments that get in and out without being in range of air attacks. A couple of times I calculated it and the average speed was well over 50 knots to be outside of air attack range before subset and then outside it again before air attacks could get there the next morning! Often that included at least two combats along the way. It's just an artifact of the game engine that we all deal with, so while it might annoy you don't let it frustrate you.

How to deal with it? No sure fire solution. Things to try (some you already are):

- Mines (try also mining any shallow suspected approach hexes, but might not be wise depending on use of your own forces in those waters).
- PT-type boats (if you can muster 12 ten try 2 x 6-boat squadrons).
- Subs (try multiple layers along the suspected approach path).
- Station a patrol of your own surface forces at the base. Two is better if you can from a chance-of-intercept perspective.
- Try a few blockade runners (one at a time, a single small xAK or one with an ASW escort).
- Try having a surface force patrol into the enemy surface force's approach path (then patrolling back out before morning enemy air attacks) in the hope of catching them on the way in or out.

One of the objectives is to slow down the force enough that your air guys get to take shots at it. Personally I have had only limited success doing that.

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 2
RE: How to stop nightly SC TF or BB TF (NO Indy 58!!) - 4/25/2012 3:06:01 PM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5517
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		Take Calcutta

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 3
RE: How to stop nightly SC TF or BB TF (NO Indy 58!!) - 4/25/2012 3:12:28 PM   
Puhis


Posts: 1627
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline 		I had a similar situation not long ago. I tried to supply Akyab with small xAKLs, enemy saw them coming and sunk them with alone destroyer.

I suggest that you send your SCTF to intercept enemy ships. Do not use patrol setting, just schedule your ships to arrive same night as enemy.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 4
RE: How to stop nightly SC TF or BB TF (NO Indy 58!!) - 4/28/2012 4:37:36 AM   
bigred


Posts: 2610
Joined: 12/27/2007
Status: offline 		go to 2 day turns

(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 5
RE: How to stop nightly SC TF or BB TF (NO Indy 58!!) - 4/28/2012 5:11:34 AM   
CRations


Posts: 75
Joined: 2/21/2012
Status: offline 		Do you have any mines as witpqs asks?

I liked the response from 2ndACR.

What happens if you bomb Calcutta port to 100%? Can they still run ships back and forth to the base?


CR

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RE: How to stop nightly SC TF or BB TF (NO Indy 58!!) - 4/28/2012 6:34:12 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 4427
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

- PT-type boats (if you can muster 12 ten try 2 x 6-boat squadrons).
- Station a patrol of your own surface forces at the base. Two is better if you can from a chance-of-intercept perspective.
- Try having a surface force patrol into the enemy surface force's approach path (then patrolling back out before morning enemy air attacks) in the hope of catching them on the way in or out.


These 3 are essentially the same idea to me; get some cheap surface units to clutter up his approach and force him to use points to interact with them. PT's are perfect. Cheap DD's work well too. That will leave him vulnerable the next day to your attack aircraft.

There are solutions to this as well, of course, but take that on if and when that happens.

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Pax

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RE: How to stop nightly SC TF or BB TF (NO Indy 58!!) - 4/28/2012 3:01:01 PM   
Cannonfodder


Posts: 1325
Joined: 10/22/2008
Status: offline 		If you got air supremacy consider posting a BB taskforce if the port is very important.. All you need is one lucky shell to slow down a capital ship and sink it with air power the next day..

Doing these raids is very risky.. As a defender you just need a bit of luck. In my game with Arnhem I recall attacking one of his bases with a cruiser force. It was 9 hexes in, 9 out and home safe I thought... Turned out that two of the cruisers collided resulting in some flotation damage.

It was enough to slow the taskforce down, but not enough to drop the cruiser out of the taskforce.. Result was me sitting 2 hexes outside an airbase with 40+ angry bombers... at dawn..

It doesn't keep me from doing these runs.. They are exiting!

< Message edited by Cannonfodder -- 4/28/2012 3:13:38 PM >

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RE: How to stop nightly SC TF or BB TF (NO Indy 58!!) - 4/28/2012 3:10:48 PM   
Cannonfodder


Posts: 1325
Joined: 10/22/2008
Status: offline 		Here the operations report from 1-10-1942 (this was more then a year ago real life)

OPERATIONAL REPORT FOR Oct 01, 42

Coastwatcher Report: 3 ships in port at Pakhoi
DD Tokitsukaze collides with CL Kiso at 127 , 161

It was actually a destroyer colliding with CL Kiso..

And the resulting air combat sinking another CL actually... but was due to slow speed of TF

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Nadi at 130,161

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 26 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes


Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 6
A-20A Havoc x 6
A-24 Banshee x 4
B-26 Marauder x 26
P-40E Warhawk x 24


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
CL Tenryu, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Nachi
DD Tokitsukaze
CL Kiso
DD Urakaze

Both ships in the collision survived. DD Tokitsukaze was sunk a few days ago (14-12-1943) by a navy attack bomber.. CL Kiso is still going strong!

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Post #: 9
RE: How to stop nightly SC TF or BB TF (NO Indy 58!!) - 4/28/2012 9:33:19 PM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1017
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline 		The Pros have spoken (and I saved this thread for future reference!).

Clearly you opponent is an Imperialist Exploiter of the Toiling Masses... <grin>

Mac

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RE: How to stop nightly SC TF or BB TF (NO Indy 58!!) - 4/29/2012 1:39:45 AM   
Icedawg


Posts: 1319
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

I had a similar situation not long ago. I tried to supply Akyab with small xAKLs, enemy saw them coming and sunk them with alone destroyer.

I suggest that you send your SCTF to intercept enemy ships. Do not use patrol setting, just schedule your ships to arrive same night as enemy.


I thought you had to have SCTFs set to patrol in order to get an intercept. Just setting them to arrive at a destination serves to get them to where you want them to be, but they don't go looking for a fight.

(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 11
RE: How to stop nightly SC TF or BB TF (NO Indy 58!!) - 4/29/2012 6:13:23 AM   
Puhis


Posts: 1627
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg


quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

I had a similar situation not long ago. I tried to supply Akyab with small xAKLs, enemy saw them coming and sunk them with alone destroyer.

I suggest that you send your SCTF to intercept enemy ships. Do not use patrol setting, just schedule your ships to arrive same night as enemy.


I thought you had to have SCTFs set to patrol in order to get an intercept. Just setting them to arrive at a destination serves to get them to where you want them to be, but they don't go looking for a fight.


They do intercept fine without patrol zones.

(in reply to Icedawg)
Post #: 12
RE: How to stop nightly SC TF or BB TF (NO Indy 58!!) - 4/29/2012 2:35:44 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 14865
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline 		I like the minefields and submarines ideas along the line Calcutta-Akyab.

What about the KB off of Calcutta awaiting the return of his fleet in the morning? Unless he's auto-disbanding every SCTF sortie (doubtful), his combatants will be on hand in the harbor. Could you arrange to get them within 7-8 hexes by the morning phase without detection?

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RE: How to stop nightly SC TF or BB TF (NO Indy 58!!) - 4/29/2012 6:12:14 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 6058
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: online 		BB Ise and Hyuga left Singapore last turn with 4 DDs. They will join the 2 CAs and 6 DDs at Rangoon. I will have a Fast Transport TF follow them up to Akyab with 4k in supplies.

I already have a sub at Akyab, a second one hex to the NW, and a third that will patrol his likely path. Recon flights over Calcutta show his TF is no longer there.

Question - I have ordered four C class I-boats to Singapore. Since they can carry midget subs, can I order the subs to Diamond Harbor and have the midgets go the one hex to Calcuuta or will they try to attack the single ship disbanded at DH??

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Post #: 14
RE: How to stop nightly SC TF or BB TF (NO Indy 58!!) - 4/29/2012 9:00:42 PM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1017
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

BB Ise and Hyuga left Singapore last turn with 4 DDs. They will join the 2 CAs and 6 DDs at Rangoon. I will have a Fast Transport TF follow them up to Akyab with 4k in supplies.

I already have a sub at Akyab, a second one hex to the NW, and a third that will patrol his likely path. Recon flights over Calcutta show his TF is no longer there.

Question - I have ordered four C class I-boats to Singapore. Since they can carry midget subs, can I order the subs to Diamond Harbor and have the midgets go the one hex to Calcuuta or will they try to attack the single ship disbanded at DH??


NY -

An excellent question to which I do not have an ansewer - but am very interested in finding out.

Mac

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RE: How to stop nightly SC TF or BB TF (NO Indy 58!!) - 4/30/2012 9:23:38 PM   
inqistor


Posts: 1210
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline 		Supply movement costs are pretty liberal in this game. 20 for jungle hex, 10 for clear, and 5 for secondary road. That means, that ALL your bases in picture can supply ALL your LCUs. So, you do not need to resupply those bases, just turn stockpiling on, so they do not try to resupply nearby units.

Second option:
You do not need to drop supply at bases, just put any LCU on coast, and unload supply onto it, it will distribute any extra to nearby units.


You can also wait until day turn, for your transports to arrive at base. Raiders show only at night.
quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Take Calcutta

Yup, seems to be best option. Also, depending how strong you are in the area. From most dangerous options:
1) Send your ships there, and bombard. Ships in port are also targeted. Mines, and forts can be a problem.
2) Send your planes there, and bombard port (disbanded ships are also targeted)
3) Keep some of your Combat TFs at ports, or set them to arrive in the same turn, as transports
4) Safest option - put lots of submarines on possible arrival routes, AND put lots of Midget Submarines in port (it seems this is the only use for them). Seriously, you can put there like 20 SSX. They actually attack pretty frequently, just rarely hit something, but you only need one good hit into engines, or some flood damage, which will slow down whole enemy TF.

And, since you can detect enemy TF at night (your submarines will detect it), put some planes on Night Naval Attack. This works only on short distance (IIRC 5 hexes?), so you have to chose nearby base

(in reply to 2ndACR)
Post #: 16
RE: How to stop nightly SC TF or BB TF (NO Indy 58!!) - 5/2/2012 8:55:52 PM   
Knavey

 

Posts: 2962
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Valrico, Florida
Status: offline 		Akyab sucks to hold for either player. Just took it back in my PBEM game and Kurt was probably happy to see it go.

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RE: How to stop nightly SC TF or BB TF (NO Indy 58!!) - 5/3/2012 5:38:13 AM   
Cannonfodder


Posts: 1325
Joined: 10/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants


Question - I have ordered four C class I-boats to Singapore. Since they can carry midget subs, can I order the subs to Diamond Harbor and have the midgets go the one hex to Calcuuta or will they try to attack the single ship disbanded at DH??


AFAIK the minisubs will attempt to unload at the target hex of the mother submarine, attack, and attempt to reboard.. No sneaking into Calcutta without the mothersub.,.

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