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RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community...

 
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RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 4/25/2012 10:59:06 PM   
Raap

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76
The game has been out for years and even with superficial modding I count two complete gameplay mods that were one man shows..People like to talk about modding this and that but generally **** off when they see the workload.You need BIG AAA strategy game communitys like CIV or TotalWar or forget about it..

Here I'd strongly disagree. Space Empires, Mount&Blade, Dominions, etc., none of these would be the same if not for the mod support. And there are no real gameplay mods for DW, since components and tech tree can't be modded.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cauldyth
Yeah, to be honest, modding doesn't even register on the list for me. I never played mods, ever, not even the big ones like Fall From Heaven. As far as I'm concerned, dev time spend on improving moddability is lost time.

Obviously not everyone feels the same way, but I'm guessing even with Civ4's massive community, fanbase, and mods, the majority of players have never even installed one.

You're losing out, I'd say. The reason to mod is to improve upon the game, and very often mods do that. The Half-Life series likely wouldn't be even half as popular today if not for Counter-strike and the other great mods made for it when they released the mod tools. For a game like Distant Worlds, where some minutes/hours spent editing a few components can make huge changes to the balance and fun of the game, it's even more important I think. What's more, it lets players easily fix smaller stuff like balance issues that the developers might not consider patch-worthy.

Now, if making it moddable would end up taking like half the development time of the expansion, I might see your point. But since it's more likely to be just a week or two of effort to have the game get components and tech from files instead of code, I think it's more than worth it. Mods keep a game fresh, and that's something DW is in great need of.

(in reply to Cauldyth)
Post #: 31
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 4/26/2012 3:39:00 AM   
adecoy95


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not enjoying mods is not exactly unusual, i know more than a few people IRL that don't use mods because they feel that because its not created by professional game developers it does not usually retain the same level of quality.

i 100% disagree with this sentiment, but i can sorta understand their point of view.

(in reply to Raap)
Post #: 32
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 4/26/2012 7:01:40 AM   
onomastikon

 

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I belong to the small minority who is not throwing money at the screen and breaking out in a pink pony prerelease party. I'm happy that the rest of the community is happy, and I am happy that Matrix will be giving Elliott money to do more stuff, but I am feeling a bit cautious about paying a premium price for another expansion to this game when I think there are 2 or 3 issues that need working on first; I don't want all of the things that need to be done only done in expansions, especially considering the idiosyncratic pricing Matrix has for this series.

(in reply to adecoy95)
Post #: 33
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 4/26/2012 12:24:17 PM   
Cauldyth

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raap

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cauldyth
Yeah, to be honest, modding doesn't even register on the list for me. I never played mods, ever, not even the big ones like Fall From Heaven. As far as I'm concerned, dev time spend on improving moddability is lost time.

Obviously not everyone feels the same way, but I'm guessing even with Civ4's massive community, fanbase, and mods, the majority of players have never even installed one.

You're losing out, I'd say.


Yeah, I won't claim my aversion to mods is defensible, it's just a quirk of mine. It's also not due to any perception that mods aren't of sufficient quality. I think it has to do with the sporadic nature of my game playing. I never feel I've squeezed enough out of the base game to want to then try out some mods.

(in reply to Raap)
Post #: 34
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 4/26/2012 12:51:31 PM   
tjhkkr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76
The game has been out for years and even with superficial modding I count two complete gameplay mods that were one man shows..People like to talk about modding this and that but generally [shy away] when they see the workload.You need BIG AAA strategy game communitys like CIV or TotalWar or forget about it.


For me it is not so much shy away, but it is difficult to push out the door doing a (more than) full time job and this is your hobby. Having said that, there is a lot of work involved, just as you say.
To me that is most of the fun... something for my mind to tinker with... :)

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(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 35
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 4/26/2012 1:12:41 PM   
mbar


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Maybe the new expansion will add multi-player?

(in reply to tjhkkr)
Post #: 36
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 4/26/2012 2:42:08 PM   
WiZz

 

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This may resolve a lot problem with AI

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Post #: 37
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 4/26/2012 3:15:52 PM   
Blueberry

 

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I... I don't know what to say. New expansion... we all knew it was coming. However, hearing the news is something else, man. I haven't been this happy since I lost me virginity all those years ago...

(in reply to WiZz)
Post #: 38
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 4/26/2012 8:02:52 PM   
WiZz

 

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Maybe some people don't understand what is this new expansion in DW. I will tell you. Honestly, new expansions in DW are only NEW PATCHES FOR PAID, not less and no more...

(in reply to Blueberry)
Post #: 39
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 4/26/2012 9:17:15 PM   
Tophat1812

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WiZz

Maybe some people don't understand what is this new expansion in DW. I will tell you. Honestly, new expansions in DW are only NEW PATCHES FOR PAID, not less and no more...



This is just plain wrong.....sorry been here since before release and the number of patches/fixes and inclusion of player suggestions is far better than i've seen game designers entertain before. Elliot does a very good job of listening and attempting to include good ideas into the game.

(in reply to WiZz)
Post #: 40
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 4/26/2012 9:19:28 PM   
msnevil

 

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As a user from the original game through the expansions, I have seen the game from go from almost not manageable to manageable levels. The Ai for exp, always ran out of gas, and 1\2 to a 3rd of the fleet was always on empty. Now at least it can remember to “fill the tank” most of the time.

The AI has improved with legends, and while brain dead in a lot of ways, at least it provides a challenge now. There are times, I will admit. I just want to quit the game and never come back, especially when the AI “defaulting” control over my ships @ the most inappropriate times like a fleet going after a explorer, and ignoring a “invading system” fleet.

Yes, I know I’m a beta tester for a incomplete game. But at the same time I don’t expect a orchestra at a one man band show. Look at the lack of 4x space games on the market, and notice the lack of choice. And money is what makes the world go round, so here I am.

I’d be far happier for a MOO 2 clone, ala a turn based game, but I doubt it would be made in today’s instant gratification world.

(in reply to WiZz)
Post #: 41
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 4/27/2012 8:10:17 AM   
WiZz

 

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quote:

The AI has improved with legends, and while brain dead in a lot of ways, at least it provides a challenge now. There are times, I will admit. I just want to quit the game and never come back, especially when the AI “defaulting” control over my ships @ the most inappropriate times like a fleet going after a explorer, and ignoring a “invading system” fleet.


Challenge?! Are you kidding? In ROTS AI was look like a baby. In legends it looks like a baby, which can't walk...

< Message edited by WiZz -- 4/27/2012 8:11:23 AM >

(in reply to msnevil)
Post #: 42
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 4/27/2012 9:19:27 AM   
Tophat1812

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WiZz

quote:

The AI has improved with legends, and while brain dead in a lot of ways, at least it provides a challenge now. There are times, I will admit. I just want to quit the game and never come back, especially when the AI “defaulting” control over my ships @ the most inappropriate times like a fleet going after a explorer, and ignoring a “invading system” fleet.


Challenge?! Are you kidding? In ROTS AI was look like a baby. In legends it looks like a baby, which can't walk...


Nonsense..........I just spent 4 hours on a game with igard's mod as the romulan and I was back-stabbed and over-run by the ai. It had a nice fleet concentration and launched it's attack after I had been fighting another empire.

(in reply to WiZz)
Post #: 43
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 4/27/2012 2:21:53 PM   
Shark7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adecoy95

not enjoying mods is not exactly unusual, i know more than a few people IRL that don't use mods because they feel that because its not created by professional game developers it does not usually retain the same level of quality.

i 100% disagree with this sentiment, but i can sorta understand their point of view.


I've seen better work out of a lot of 'amateurs' than some of the big game developers out there. A lot of people would write off DW simply because its a small independent developer instead of one of the big game studios...and DW is by far way better than most of the 'cut-corners, hurry it out the door to keep it on budget' stuff you get from the big studios.

I have no trouble playing a mod, they can add a lot to the game, and make it replayable from a different angle.

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Post #: 44
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 5/1/2012 2:30:41 PM   
stewart.bragg


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This game just gets better and better!

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Post #: 45
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 5/1/2012 10:58:29 PM   
Kayoz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: msnevil

I’d be far happier for a MOO 2 clone, ala a turn based game, but I doubt it would be made in today’s instant gratification world.


Agreed.

(in reply to msnevil)
Post #: 46
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 5/1/2012 11:06:40 PM   
Kayoz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WiZz

Challenge?! Are you kidding? In ROTS AI was look like a baby. In legends it looks like a baby, which can't walk...


I'm not sure I understand the statement - is the AI getting better or worse, in your opinion?

I haven't noticed any real AI changes, in terms of it handling its military. My ships still split up to chase after explorers. All my explorers mob warring systems and generate 500 messages to bury the occasional warnings of planets/ships coming under attack. AI casus belli decision making is as incomprehensible as ever.

(in reply to WiZz)
Post #: 47
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 5/2/2012 3:04:20 AM   
adecoy95


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz


quote:

ORIGINAL: WiZz

Challenge?! Are you kidding? In ROTS AI was look like a baby. In legends it looks like a baby, which can't walk...


I'm not sure I understand the statement - is the AI getting better or worse, in your opinion?

I haven't noticed any real AI changes, in terms of it handling its military. My ships still split up to chase after explorers. All my explorers mob warring systems and generate 500 messages to bury the occasional warnings of planets/ships coming under attack. AI casus belli decision making is as incomprehensible as ever.


oh believe me, the ai for your personal empire is really pretty decent, you give it the right stance commands and you can watch escorts have entire pirate fleets running circles for years. its the other ai empires as a whole that suffer from a poor midgame/nonexistant end game

i have touched on the reasons why i think this is happening in the past, you can look for them if your so inclined, i dont really want to go into detail about it here, but it basically boils down to either automated tax rates need tweaking or growth rates need adjusting

< Message edited by adecoy95 -- 5/2/2012 3:05:39 AM >

(in reply to Kayoz)
Post #: 48
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 5/2/2012 4:32:52 AM   
Texashawk

 

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Starbase Orion. For all iOS systems. The last word in MOO2 clones.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz


quote:

ORIGINAL: msnevil

I’d be far happier for a MOO 2 clone, ala a turn based game, but I doubt it would be made in today’s instant gratification world.


Agreed.



_____________________________

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(in reply to Kayoz)
Post #: 49
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 5/2/2012 8:09:15 AM   
WiZz

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
I'm not sure I understand the statement - is the AI getting better or worse, in your opinion?


Clarification: ENEMY AI is getting worse.
No doubt, your personal AI got some improvements during creating Legends. I use almost full manual control, and I can see all enemy weaknesses clearly. Some of them appeared in Legends only.

(in reply to Kayoz)
Post #: 50
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 5/2/2012 11:51:07 AM   
Vincenzo Beretta


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quote:

ORIGINAL: msnevil
I’d be far happier for a MOO 2 clone, ala a turn based game, but I doubt it would be made in today’s instant gratification world.


This is a classic example of "find something else to blame, anything"

Games like Civilization 4 (dunno about 5) and Galactic Civilizations 2 do sell... and then sell... and then go on selling, far beyond the "instant success" for the "instant gratification crowd".

I agree that some genres attract more crowd than others, but the development costs are proportional too. I don't feel that the best way to help games like DW is to fall back on the trite (whine)"People don't read books because nowadays they play videogames!!!11(/whine)

< Message edited by Vincenzo Beretta -- 5/2/2012 11:53:42 AM >

(in reply to msnevil)
Post #: 51
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 5/2/2012 12:10:42 PM   
WoodMan


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A new expansion, wooohooo!

My dream expansion features:

1. AI Improvement (without losing racial individuality)
2. New 4th tech Tree: Racial (one for each race, cloaking devices for Ketarov, Jump Gates for Quameno, Scavanger Ships for Teekan etc)
3. Crew (a new "resource"), that dies when Life Support taken out, so ships can be reclaimed (or scavenged!!!)
4. More interesting diplomacy

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Post #: 52
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 5/2/2012 2:20:20 PM   
Tophat1812

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

A new expansion, wooohooo!

My dream expansion features:

1. AI Improvement (without losing racial individuality)
2. New 4th tech Tree: Racial (one for each race, cloaking devices for Ketarov, Jump Gates for Quameno, Scavanger Ships for Teekan etc)
3. Crew (a new "resource"), that dies when Life Support taken out, so ships can be reclaimed (or scavenged!!!)
4. More interesting diplomacy



I like your points woodman. I have wanted crew represented as well,experience that modifies performance of ships. Also boarding actions and ship capture would be possible.

Racial/Religious tech is also a good 4th tree.

(in reply to WoodMan)
Post #: 53
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 5/2/2012 6:45:12 PM   
Cauldyth

 

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Sounds good to me too!

(in reply to WoodMan)
Post #: 54
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 5/3/2012 3:49:31 AM   
msnevil

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vincenzo Beretta

This is a classic example of "find something else to blame, anything"

Games like Civilization 4 (dunno about 5) and Galactic Civilizations 2 do sell... and then sell... and then go on selling, far beyond the "instant success" for the "instant gratification crowd".




Hmm, Don't understand your find something else to blame comment, other then what you are attacking is a comment I made based on a generalization? ie "twitch gamers" Mostly focused on my "fellow" American friends, I might add.

The games you listed btw were about 5 years ago when released. (Which I own both.) And by today's standards they are considered ancient. I doubt you would see many of those games being made today by a "American" company. Hence why I mostly buy games from foreign countries, like this game. Though I will admit, the new x-box\PC?? turn based version of x-com I'm looking forward too. We'll see how well that sells in the near future. I hate to see "turn based" games go the route of adventure games of yester year. anyway, sorry for the soap box rant.

(in reply to Vincenzo Beretta)
Post #: 55
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 5/3/2012 1:36:57 PM   
Modest

 

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Maybe not a big stuff but I would like to see that planet quality depends a little on race You play. It is really hard to find a good quality volcanic planet, while it is easy to find good quality continental one. But don't get me wrong - planet quality should be not fixed depending on the race You are playing. I say that each race should get some bonuses to planet quality depending on it's type. Simple example - Hummans get + 15 to continental planet quality, + 10 to swamp planet quality, + 10 to ocean planet quality, - 10 for desert planet quality, - 10 for ice planet quality, - 15 for volcanic planet quality. They are colonising a planet which has 72% quality. If this planet is a desert planet that for player it will be just 62% planet quality (desert - 10), but if this planet will be continental that it will be 87% (continentals + 15). Of course those numbers are only for example. They are irrelevant beond that. Idea is what is important here, not specific numbers.

(in reply to msnevil)
Post #: 56
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 5/3/2012 8:13:12 PM   
Niaru


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This is just genius!
I strongly support the last statement, I imagine it to be easily implemented too!

(in reply to Modest)
Post #: 57
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 5/4/2012 3:23:20 AM   
Fascist Dog


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Agreed. This seems like a good idea. Couple it with making Terraforming much more expensive to do and it might help reduce the amount of cash a player has at his disposal.

(in reply to Modest)
Post #: 58
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 5/4/2012 4:04:45 AM   
Kayoz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Modest
I say that each race should get some bonuses to planet quality depending on it's type.


Sounds like a fine idea, but there are potential pitfalls.

1. micromanaging colonies by race and type will soon become tedious unless automation tools and interfaces are added to streamline shuffling of populations.
2. AI control of populations will have to be reasonably efficient
3. balance testing will need to be performed, so that the "evil" races which enslave others are not unduly penalized
4. finally, any step in this direction should be only be considered once DW's AI has been brought up so that it is significantly less pathetic in mid to end game.

Perhaps worth considering for DW v.2, but given the state of DW, not something I'd like to see prioritized.

(in reply to Modest)
Post #: 59
RE: An update for the Distant Worlds community... - 5/4/2012 3:49:42 PM   
Niaru


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Actually, it would be quite easy to avoid micromanagement in that regard:
Let the AI resettle the population with the highest development bonus and the highest population increase bonus for any given type of planet to any colony. You would need to check for two tables: developental bonus and population increase. The rest (e.g. how you resettle: slavery, assimilation etc) is already implemented as far as I got it.
It could even involve the othervise rather useless "tourist transports". Win-win.

Concerning the AI, well I'm not that concerned. It works fine for me as long as I don't exploit certain things and spoil my game.

(in reply to Kayoz)
Post #: 60
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