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What if scenario

 
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What if scenario - 4/21/2012 1:02:46 AM   
Buck Beach

 

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From: Upland,CA,USA
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Has anybody ran a scenario or mod (AI Japan) where the Japanese catch the 3 US carriers flatfooted at Pearl to see how long it takes (and if) the Allied forces to recover without those assets.

Just curious.

Buck
Post #: 1
RE: What if scenario - 4/21/2012 1:12:38 AM   
dr.hal


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Good question, now that would be an interesting "what if"...Hal

(in reply to Buck Beach)
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RE: What if scenario - 4/21/2012 2:04:21 AM   
drw61


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Buck
That should be fairly easy to set up. Would the carriers be in port or in TFs just outside of Pearl? Either way it would be a bad day for the USN.
Daryl


Side note: dr.hal your eye is following me across the room, its creeping me out dude.

(in reply to dr.hal)
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RE: What if scenario - 4/21/2012 2:08:02 AM   
Terminus


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Well, just ask any Allied player who's managed to lose two CV's and have two more damaged in the first month of the war how long it takes...

Like me.

Hint: it's a while.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Buck Beach)
Post #: 4
RE: What if scenario - 4/21/2012 4:18:40 AM   
sandman455


Posts: 203
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From: 20 yrs ago - SDO -> med down, w/BC glasses on
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Funny you ask.

I've been running the same mod over and over again with my father as my guinea pig. He's normally great in the role but he's been irratating me no end by getting pot shots at my CV's on 12/7 and 12/8 and putting a month's damage or more on one or two of them before I dispatch them to davey jones' locker. Just can't have that on my time table.

Well on the last restart (its a heavily modded RA so its gone through a lot of edits) I decided to end the nonsense and told the old man that his flat tops are starting in Pearl just like we used to do with the SPI game. He just says "Whatever you need son."

He doesn't care. He's played the allies so much in the last 40 years that by 43-44 he can pretty much walk to Japan without even using his carriers. Then again so can any really competent player using the old SPI game. Here, in this game, maybe not but I just don't know yet since R&D and production can be heavy modified at least in stock scenarios. Honestly, the only factor is the time it takes and that is usually a lot less than 3 years if your are willing to accept greater than historical losses. It is so much easier when you know what the IJN is capable of. Most players just can't grasp the significance of 20/20 hindsight on strategic and even tactical planning.

Anyway, so I stick the disbanded TF's in Pearl and on our most recent restart I hit PH with all 6 CV's instead of my usual 4. Normally I have the other two taking out the Lexington on 12/7.


RESULTS:

Not sure if my 1 real turn and 4 subsequent tests on the save game are indicative of what others will get but. . .

Out of 5 runs, I managed to sink 1 BB and 1 CV - total. There's simply too much in Pearl to sponge your available ordnance. My 75yr old father almost died laughing when he saw the real turn and I had not sunk a thing.

I can only be thankful that a new mod to RA has come out so I can force another restart and put them back out at sea.

And oh yeah. . . . the China OOB in RA was a big laugh. I was getting pushed around in China and my father was gloating it was all from his incredible skill in handling the ops there. He really had me thinking I'd never get this ground model figured out since everyone else seemed to be having little issues in running the table there. Dang must be early dementia or something, because I was using everything but the kitchen sink out of Manchuria and it still looked bad for cleaning up the place. Pops was just having a grand old time planning B-29 bases up and down the Yellow River. With each restart he wanted me to rename some Chinese AF to Saipan 2, Tinian 2, Saipan 3 . . .


My recommendation is that if you are looking to set up allied CV disaster you simply put them in their historical spot and strike them from the start. You can usually bag both with little issues and still hit PH with 4 carriers. Always go for Lexington first and from the south. That way Enterprise doesn't have a clear escape route. Otherwise, if you are going to put them in Pearl, be sure to pull out the heavy cruisers and maybe even some BB's. Otherwise you can't expect to achieve much other than a big repair bill for the allies. A 2nd and 3rd strike is a possibility in stock games, but if you are going to use RA/DBB values, some of which have even gotten better after my own edits, you will lose too many pilots to make it the really devastating blow to the allies that you were hoping for. Again 2 carriers isn't much of a speed bump on the road to Japan if the allied player knows what he's doing.

_____________________________

Gary S (USN 1320, 1985-1993)
AOCS 1985, VT10 1985-86, VT86 1986, VS41 1986-87
VS32 1987-90 (NSO/NWTO, deployed w/CV-66, CVN-71)
VS27 1990-91 (NATOPS/Safety)
SFWSLANT 1991-93 (AGM-84 All platforms, S-3 A/B systems)

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 5
RE: What if scenario - 4/21/2012 7:48:52 AM   
inqistor


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Joined: 5/12/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sandman455

Anyway, so I stick the disbanded TF's in Pearl and on our most recent restart I hit PH with all 6 CV's instead of my usual 4. Normally I have the other two taking out the Lexington on 12/7.


RESULTS:

Not sure if my 1 real turn and 4 subsequent tests on the save game are indicative of what others will get but. . .

Out of 5 runs, I managed to sink 1 BB and 1 CV - total. There's simply too much in Pearl to sponge your available ordnance. My 75yr old father almost died laughing when he saw the real turn and I had not sunk a thing.

I have made some testing with original Scenarios, and it seems there is something wrong with Historical 7th December set, and strikes from CV. When you set airgroups as Naval Attack primary, and PH secondary, results are very poor (and frequently fragmented). While if you set PH as primary target, you will get good results.

So although setting possibility for CV hunting seems logical, it will skew PH attack.

(in reply to sandman455)
Post #: 6
RE: What if scenario - 4/21/2012 9:32:09 PM   
topeverest

 

Posts: 2427
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline
The allies are so strong compared to the empire. It is a great mod to play where the empire player is inexperienced or the allied player wants more challenge. IMHO in SC1 The allies will still win baring a spectacular empire achievement, though it will take 9-12 months longer, and teh empire gets to be on the offensive for longer. So My 2 cents is that scenario of placing the carriers the Empire expected to be in pearl...well in pearl...should be a stock scenario.

A whole stack of fun for both sides!

_____________________________

Andy M

(in reply to inqistor)
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RE: What if scenario - 4/27/2012 8:33:35 PM   
dr.hal


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Joined: 6/3/2006
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Sorry Daryl, I'll try to blink in the future. But it's a space oddity! Hal

(in reply to drw61)
Post #: 8
RE: What if scenario - 4/28/2012 2:07:48 PM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1921
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

quote:

ORIGINAL: sandman455

Anyway, so I stick the disbanded TF's in Pearl and on our most recent restart I hit PH with all 6 CV's instead of my usual 4. Normally I have the other two taking out the Lexington on 12/7.


RESULTS:

Not sure if my 1 real turn and 4 subsequent tests on the save game are indicative of what others will get but. . .

Out of 5 runs, I managed to sink 1 BB and 1 CV - total. There's simply too much in Pearl to sponge your available ordnance. My 75yr old father almost died laughing when he saw the real turn and I had not sunk a thing.

I have made some testing with original Scenarios, and it seems there is something wrong with Historical 7th December set, and strikes from CV. When you set airgroups as Naval Attack primary, and PH secondary, results are very poor (and frequently fragmented). While if you set PH as primary target, you will get good results.

So although setting possibility for CV hunting seems logical, it will skew PH attack.



If one were so inclined, they could take the December 8th scenario (stock, DaBabes or whatever) and modify it as to have sunk the CVs.

Buck

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 9
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