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The best su for the soviet?

 
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The best su for the soviet? - 4/17/2012 10:08:54 AM   
schascha


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What are the best SU for the soviets in 1941?
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RE: The best su for the soviet? - 4/17/2012 1:29:17 PM   
Klydon


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Sapper regiments

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RE: The best su for the soviet? - 4/17/2012 6:25:48 PM   
Disciple

 

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Plus anything you can build for "free" (excepting the AP cost). If you go through the process of creating a new SU you can check the TOE of each SU you can build. From that you can quickly see what armaments it uses and how many of them you have sitting in the pool not being used. You will sometimes find you have thousands of something gathering dust in the pool - for the Soviets in 41 howitzers springs to mind.

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RE: The best su for the soviet? - 4/17/2012 7:22:45 PM   
Klydon


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Thing is, I would not use those units in 1941 simply because 1941 is the season of butt kicking for the Russians. Why lose support units you don't have to?

IMO, the Russians should try to funnel all their support units up to Stavka as soon as the game starts. Save the artillery and other units. You can disband some units like motorcycle regiments and keep others intact for later use. I don't typically start filtering artillery units back in until sometime in October after mud gets going and while I will lose some if the Germans decide to launch a frost offensive, I want as many support units in place to be ready to roll for the winter offensive.

Sapper regiments are typically the only ones I would build anymore along with perhaps some rail repair units. (I used to do a fair number of rail repair units because of their construction abilities, but with the changes, they are not as effective/important, but more are needed to actually repair rail hexes that you get during the winter offensive). Russian sappers are generally fairly cheap to build, add good punch offensively/defensively, and also help with construction of forts if they happen to be just sitting around.

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RE: The best su for the soviet? - 4/17/2012 7:51:37 PM   
Disciple

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Thing is, I would not use those units in 1941 simply because 1941 is the season of butt kicking for the Russians. Why lose support units you don't have to?

IMO, the Russians should try to funnel all their support units up to Stavka as soon as the game starts. Save the artillery and other units. You can disband some units like motorcycle regiments and keep others intact for later use. I don't typically start filtering artillery units back in until sometime in October after mud gets going and while I will lose some if the Germans decide to launch a frost offensive, I want as many support units in place to be ready to roll for the winter offensive.

Sapper regiments are typically the only ones I would build anymore along with perhaps some rail repair units. (I used to do a fair number of rail repair units because of their construction abilities, but with the changes, they are not as effective/important, but more are needed to actually repair rail hexes that you get during the winter offensive). Russian sappers are generally fairly cheap to build, add good punch offensively/defensively, and also help with construction of forts if they happen to be just sitting around.


Fair comment. I don't agree with the strategy, but that doesn't invalidate it or the logic behind it. Personally though, I prefer to be more pro-active in my Soviet 41 defense. But then again I only play against the AI, my approach might cost me dear against a canny human opponent.

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RE: The best su for the soviet? - 4/17/2012 9:30:40 PM   
AFV


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What would be a good mix of SU for a typical Soviet Army? It sounds like I am way overbuilding support units. I generally go with 2 each of seperate tank battalions, ski battalions, a couple of different artillery units, construction battalions, MG-Artillery Battalion (to use up stuff in the pool), and Sapper Regiments. Generally add in 1 RR construction brigade. And I set my support level at 2.  And yes, I am out of armament points before the first mud. 

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RE: The best su for the soviet? - 4/17/2012 10:12:49 PM   
Aurelian

 

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The only battalions I build are the tank ones, as they upgrade to regiments. Artillery, usually the ones that become RGVK. (In 1941 anyway.)

I think the "don't build batts when you can build regiments" rule of thumb still holds true.

When you get the artillery choices of abc, I go for b as it has the most guns IIRC. (AT though I build the heavy one.)

A good mix, IMHO you can't go wrong with a mortar/light/heavy artillery combo in the HQ. (each fires at a different range.)

Not saying it's the best. Maybe it's the worst. It's just what I do.

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RE: The best su for the soviet? - 4/17/2012 10:28:05 PM   
AFV


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I like what you said, and agree- a good mix of stuff, tending to build regiments (when possible, there are no construction regiments, although I guess you can not build those at all and just build RR contruction brigades, which seems like a good idea).
But how many of each is the best amount?  How many total support groups for a typical Army? 6? 12? 18? even more? At a point, its a waste of APs, I just don't know where that point is.

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RE: The best su for the soviet? - 4/18/2012 2:48:08 AM   
Farfarer

 

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Experiment with a few games. I followed posted recommendations and then went "Hey!" after I had played several games. Your 'style' counts as much as Arm pools, range attacks etc. It is one of the big fun differences playing Sov. Boy would I like to craft SU's as Axis... ( ducks for cover).

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RE: The best su for the soviet? - 4/18/2012 3:55:32 AM   
Klydon


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I don't build extra tank battalions and instead wait for tank regiments. I am a regiment > battalion type, so I don't build battalion combat SU's.

I will also take a look at the ToE of various artillery regiments to see what the mix is because not all are created equal. Some have 24 barrels and some have 36. I try to avoid the 24 barrel SU's. I will pay attention to what is available in the pool artillery wise and build to suit to a point, but I am not going to go crazy with it, because I want my armaments points in the regular units.

Mortar units you have to be careful with as well. Some regiments have fewer barrels or the same but smaller barrels as some of the other units. I think one of the first ones you can build is the one you want to stick with and yes, mortars are nasty in this game.

I have been messing with rocket units, but don't have a real firm feel for them yet.

Army wise, I usually set up 3 sappers, 3-5 artillery regiments, 1-2 mortar, and that is about it. Rail repair units go in fronts. Shock army will get a bit more along with Guards including a rocket unit if I have them.

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RE: The best su for the soviet? - 4/18/2012 9:27:56 AM   
randallw

 

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The type of tank battalion that does not upgrade is the flame tank, which is available in 1942; it uses a version of the T-34 that builds about 12 per turn. Can't order too many without burning out the pool.

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RE: The best su for the soviet? - 4/18/2012 10:09:22 AM   
ComradeP

 

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The flame tank itself does upgrade at a certain point, however, and in theory the game might also use the OT-130's that are likely to be in the pool.

A couple of months ago, I decided on a minimalistic approach for SU's in armies as every SU you add makes it less likely that ground elements fire above a certain number of units involved in a battle. As the performance per individual artillery SU is less than stellar for both sides, I've more or less stopped using artillery regiments in large numbers. I'd much rather give my Rifle units a greater chance to fire than 4x24 or so guns.

The problem is lessened over time as Soviet individual unit quality increases (fewer units necessary for a successful attack, in 1941 you're likely to use most if not all of an army)/through corps consolidation, although the corps consolidation can lead to shifting of the cause of the problem as you put the SU's in the corps instead of the armies. I still maximize SU placement in corps-sized combat units, however.

Also keep in mind that the 41b Rifle division loses most of the artillery compared to the 41a division, and some of it will come back with the 41c and 42a Rifle division TOE's. Having lots of artillery regiments AND having to give all the Rifle divisions their artillery back again at the same time sucks the armaments pool dry like a vacuum cleaner.

Klydon: as to the Tank battalions, keep in mind that the SU's also need some time to get to a reasonable experience/morale level, which is why I normally build SU's and park them in STAVKA until the first winter or until 1942. I don't build many Tank battalions before spring 1942, however, because the only unit that gets them is the cavalry corps and the SU's you build at the end of the winter will be in good shape at the start of the summer offensive (provided you have enough armament points and production covers the TOE needs).

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 4/18/2012 10:12:36 AM >


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