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Soviet Massive Manpower/OB Swing

 
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Soviet Massive Manpower/OB Swing - 4/14/2012 4:21:20 AM   
AFV


Posts: 371
Joined: 12/24/2011
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline
Soviet Numbers:
Turn 36 Manpower Pool 206,989, Soviet OB 6,831,073
Turn 37 Manpower Pool 225,667, Soviet OB 6,898,441
Turn 38 Manpower Pool 519,577 (gain 293,910), Soviet OB 6,675,806 (loss of 222,635)

What would cause such a huge swing on turn 38 for Manpower and OB? I believe that 3 SAD airbases disbanded, thats maybe 15K men, but this is over 10x that. I do not think anything else of note happened. Casualties for the turn (Snow) were 90,000 men.
My OB had gained anywhere from 28K to 151K over the past 10 turns. Manpower pool had been on a steady decline, loosing about 25K per turn. I merged about 6 divisions into 3 divisions- but that shouldn't affect the numbers at all. There were a lot of Soviet TOE changes, but again, shouldn't affect these numbers. I did not disband 300,000 men worth of divisions (I did not disband anything besides the computer dictated SAD airbase disbands).

Any ideas?

Note: I do realize that this issue, most likely, is not going to affect my army at all. I'm not missing a boatload of divisions, etc. I just want to know what could have caused it.



< Message edited by AFV -- 4/14/2012 4:22:18 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Soviet Massive Manpower/OB Swing - 4/14/2012 11:32:41 AM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 2196
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline
Please upload turn 37 and 38 saves.
Are your manpower figures from active pool?
TOE changes may result in component TOE oversize reduction function kicking in and these squads are shown in the transfer pool for at least one turn.


_____________________________

WitE Beta-tester - aircraft data modifications

(in reply to AFV)
Post #: 2
RE: Soviet Massive Manpower/OB Swing - 4/14/2012 12:42:28 PM   
Walloc

 

Posts: 3032
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AFV

Soviet Numbers:
Turn 36 Manpower Pool 206,989, Soviet OB 6,831,073
Turn 37 Manpower Pool 225,667, Soviet OB 6,898,441
Turn 38 Manpower Pool 519,577 (gain 293,910), Soviet OB 6,675,806 (loss of 222,635)

What would cause such a huge swing on turn 38 for Manpower and OB? I believe that 3 SAD airbases disbanded, thats maybe 15K men, but this is over 10x that. I do not think anything else of note happened. Casualties for the turn (Snow) were 90,000 men.
My OB had gained anywhere from 28K to 151K over the past 10 turns. Manpower pool had been on a steady decline, loosing about 25K per turn. I merged about 6 divisions into 3 divisions- but that shouldn't affect the numbers at all. There were a lot of Soviet TOE changes, but again, shouldn't affect these numbers. I did not disband 300,000 men worth of divisions (I did not disband anything besides the computer dictated SAD airbase disbands).

Any ideas?

Note: I do realize that this issue, most likely, is not going to affect my army at all. I'm not missing a boatload of divisions, etc. I just want to know what could have caused it.




Hi AFV,

U will see this happening lots to the soviet side during the game if u follow it, closely.

Examples.

When the pre war inf divs '41 swicthes from 14k man divs to 10k man divs u will get back all those surpluse troops back in a few turns, if not most during one.
Then the OOB for russian inf div slow rises during next evolutions, to around 12k, only to go back to 10k again.
Also u have the swicthes in squad types, related to the OOB evolutions. If u have a turn with lots of units on refit and not in the front line u can see this bigs swings manpower/oob changes in a turn.

IIRC, turn 38 is around the march '42 OOB inf div change. Ur inf divs will start to shed its rifle (-) squad, which now is used for nada, so u will have a huge pool of those. They cant be drawn into any thing but divs that hasnt changed its OOB yet.

U should easily be able to check this using show event log, lots of divs swichting OOBs and the production screen, u prolly have a huge pool of useless rifle (-) squads now.

Hope it helps,

Rasmus

(in reply to AFV)
Post #: 3
RE: Soviet Massive Manpower/OB Swing - 4/14/2012 2:03:44 PM   
AFV


Posts: 371
Joined: 12/24/2011
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline
My saves as follows- I did not zip these, just renamed, so just rename them to .sav and you should be able to load them.
Beginning of turn 37

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Walloc)
Post #: 4
RE: Soviet Massive Manpower/OB Swing - 4/14/2012 2:04:38 PM   
AFV


Posts: 371
Joined: 12/24/2011
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline
Beginning of turn 38

Attachment (1)

(in reply to AFV)
Post #: 5
RE: Soviet Massive Manpower/OB Swing - 4/14/2012 2:05:26 PM   
AFV


Posts: 371
Joined: 12/24/2011
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline
Beginning of turn 39

Attachment (1)

(in reply to AFV)
Post #: 6
RE: Soviet Massive Manpower/OB Swing - 4/14/2012 2:17:04 PM   
AFV


Posts: 371
Joined: 12/24/2011
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline
Thanks Rasmus and Denniss

Rifle squad (-) pool
Beginning turn 37  2038
Beginning turn 38  27,902
Beginining turn 39 25,339

So, certainly that explains it. There were a lot of TOE changes. So, rifle division TOE changes, the rifle squads (-) get stripped from the divisions, and go into the manpower pool (increasing it), while the OB decreases because of all the rifle squads (-) that were stripped from the divisions. Meanwhile, FYI, my TOE % for those divisions decreased, even for units that were away from front, on refit, on a rail (assume thats a function of rifle squads (-) being stripped away and the new TOE/OB to calculate the TOE % by).

You say they are useless, I hope that means they get crunched into normal rifle squads over time?

< Message edited by AFV -- 4/14/2012 2:18:28 PM >

(in reply to AFV)
Post #: 7
RE: Soviet Massive Manpower/OB Swing - 4/14/2012 3:28:26 PM   
Walloc

 

Posts: 3032
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline
Hi AFV,

Prolly, but in one game in later '42 i have some 78.000 rifle (-) squads in my pools, thats around 600.000 men "stuck" in the pool for at leased half+ a year. Could be they in '43 or later, never made it that far as soviets, are converted.

/rant on /sarcasme on

But hey we all know OOB changes are the evil the devs are keeping the axis side tied to history with, while the soviets are free to do any thing the like. Totally unaffected by OOB related issues.

/rant off /sarcasme off

Kind regards,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 4/14/2012 4:06:35 PM >

(in reply to AFV)
Post #: 8
RE: Soviet Massive Manpower/OB Swing - 4/14/2012 3:58:03 PM   
AFV


Posts: 371
Joined: 12/24/2011
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline
I will just hope it continues to drop as it did from turn 38 to 39.

Maybe one of the devs can comment on your scenario- it can't be WAD if you get 600,000 men stuck in your pool. Maybe it was patch related or something. After a few more turns I will post back here and show if mine steadily went down, or if they just got stuck.

And thanks for your input, you are always so helpful and knowledgible. Even with the short rants :)


(in reply to Walloc)
Post #: 9
RE: Soviet Massive Manpower/OB Swing - 4/14/2012 4:06:20 PM   
Walloc

 

Posts: 3032
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AFV

I will just hope it continues to drop as it did from turn 38 to 39.


I hope so too.


quote:


And thanks for your input, you are always so helpful and knowledgible. Even with the short rants :)


Thx, and well i know i have that charecter flaw. Some times it gets an out let, some times not

Kind regards,

Rasmus

(in reply to AFV)
Post #: 10
RE: Soviet Massive Manpower/OB Swing - 4/14/2012 8:15:40 PM   
pompack


Posts: 2519
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From: University Park, Texas
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Remember that there are zero men (as in manpower) in the "rifle squads" in the pool; there are only their rifles, water bottles, bed rolls and assorted stuff. When they are stripped from the division, the equipment goes to the "rifle squad" item in the pool and the people go to the manpower pool.

(in reply to Walloc)
Post #: 11
RE: Soviet Massive Manpower/OB Swing - 4/14/2012 9:18:19 PM   
Walloc

 

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From: Denmark
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Ok thx Pompack, i learned some thing new then.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

(in reply to pompack)
Post #: 12
RE: Soviet Massive Manpower/OB Swing - 4/14/2012 10:24:16 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 2196
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From: Germany, Hannover (region)
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The rifle squad (-) stay in pool but will be scrapped from 1944 on.
What also comes into effect is the (-) variant consists of 11 men whike the other squads of this ere are 9-men squads. You'll see some manpower shortages in late 1943 upon upgrading to the 11-men 1943 type.
The (-) variant is still in use by some units like airborne bdes until 1943.

_____________________________

WitE Beta-tester - aircraft data modifications

(in reply to Walloc)
Post #: 13
RE: Soviet Massive Manpower/OB Swing - 4/14/2012 10:29:25 PM   
Walloc

 

Posts: 3032
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline
Thx, for the information Denniss.

Kind regards,

Rasmus





< Message edited by Walloc -- 4/14/2012 10:30:41 PM >

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 14
RE: Soviet Massive Manpower/OB Swing - 4/16/2012 10:31:14 PM   
AFV


Posts: 371
Joined: 12/24/2011
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline
 

Turn... Rifle(-)

37 ... 2,038
38 ... 27,902
39 ... 25,339
40 ... 23,046
41 ... 21,395

Looks like the Rifle squad (-) will slowly be crunched up into, something else.

< Message edited by AFV -- 4/16/2012 11:09:01 PM >

(in reply to Walloc)
Post #: 15
RE: Soviet Massive Manpower/OB Swing - 4/17/2012 12:54:12 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 2196
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline
Sucked-up by other units?
You may load up older saves and compare the squads in units with the current turn.


_____________________________

WitE Beta-tester - aircraft data modifications

(in reply to AFV)
Post #: 16
RE: Soviet Massive Manpower/OB Swing - 4/19/2012 2:51:04 AM   
AFV


Posts: 371
Joined: 12/24/2011
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline
Denniss- yes- I assume that the water bottles, bed rolls and assorted stuff (per pompack in above post) in the rifle(-) are now being used in normal rifle squads as they are made.
From what I understand in the above posts, the initial bump (from 2,038 to 27,902) was due to TOE changes that got rid of the rifle(-).
It also caused my TOE % to drop on infantry divisions (even ones on refit, on a rail).


This is a slight annoyance- but since the units TOE % recover, its not horrible. And it seems to be WAD- it just took a geek putting numbers into a spreadsheet every turn to catch it.

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 17
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