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RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Canoerebel

 
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RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 8/9/2012 6:04:42 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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Joined: 10/13/2000
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
That does bring in another factor-- agression. The current deployment, with I assume some vertical movement to sweep the area like a "boy scout search", will test only Naval skill and a random die roll if the two objects meet in a 46 mile hex. The suggested configuration does brings into play a 'or' equation meaning if 'a' reacts or 'b' reacts we get a contact ... It has been my antidotal experince playing agasint the scripts to learn the game that the checkerbaord configuration does rely on Glens since the IJ subs do not have RADAR like the Allies after April 42 to get the naval reaction algorithum in play ... . ... Just my .02 ...

It has been a very exciting and unique game so far!


Yeah, Canoe is a great opponent and this game has been very fun so far.

I think I can take this on points now if I want to. I have 18k, he has around 7k. When Singapore falls he will lose 1800 points. On top of that Im building up alot of 10-1 bases so my points will keep on growing. I think this is the factor that will push Canoe to attack in the north.

His easiest way to score points will be in India, or in Alaska. I will make it prohibitively hard to recapture bases in India, which will force him to attack in North Pac.

KB is swinging by Ceylon now to show the flag and make Canoe think I might attack in southern India, after that, everyone heads to Tokyo, and after that, the defensive battles of Alaska.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 451
OPERATION KIERA - 8/9/2012 6:18:15 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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Here is the idea:

Operation Kiera - the defence of the Aleutians.


I will build up several bases to appear strong, and house large airunits, but small land units. These will be "strongpoints" in apperance, and with plenty of airunits.

Then there will be bases that are not build up at all. These will be the bait. They will appear empty, or lightly defended. And hopefully they should attract a US player with loads of engineers and strong airunits.

The three dot-bases just south of Kodiak should be considered the most likely target. Three bases in close vincinity, each possible to build up to a lvl 7 airfield (they are all 0(4) for airfield).

Umnak Island is also a likely target with its 0(5) airfield.

Each of these dot-bases will have at least 200 AV, and they will have fort levels around 4-5 hopefully.

Adak will be the defensive center. Here the counterattack force will be located. North of everything, hovering invisibly in the Bering Sea, the KB will wait patiently for any foolish attack.

To the east of Kodiak, only airunits and naval guards will defend. East of Kodiak, everything is expendable.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Panzerjaeger Hortlund)
Post #: 452
OPERATION KIERA - 8/9/2012 6:20:49 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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Oh, and most of my Battleship line will be in this area aswell.

My idea to trigger this invasion is to have a fake KB do a raid in the Indian Ocean. If Canoe thinks the CVs are in the Indian Ocean, he might think he has a window of opportunity.

Now, all that remains is to convince Canoe that he cannot pull off successful counterattacks in the south or central pacific.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Panzerjaeger Hortlund)
Post #: 453
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 8/9/2012 6:22:16 PM   
witpqs


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Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

Regarding your picket line:

Have you considered placing then every other hex with reaction @ one? and maybe every other sub with a Glen?

I think you could cover roughly the same area 2 deep like a checkerboard and get better results...


Good idea, and it would make it almost watertight. But I have almost all my Glen subs in the pacific.


That does bring in another factor-- agression. The current deployment, with I assume some vertical movement to sweep the area like a "boy scout search", will test only Naval skill and a random die roll if the two objects meet in a 46 mile hex. The suggested configuration does brings into play a 'or' equation meaning if 'a' reacts or 'b' reacts we get a contact ... It has been my antidotal experince playing agasint the scripts to learn the game that the checkerbaord configuration does rely on Glens since the IJ subs do not have RADAR like the Allies after April 42 to get the naval reaction algorithum in play ... . ... Just my .02 ...

It has been a very exciting and unique game so far!

One thing that was confirmed a long time ago by the developers and I've never seen contradicted by experience:

Setting a TF to "Remain on Station" also wipes out any "React" setting. In other words it makes React = 0 because you are telling the TF to stay in the hex it is ordered to.

If you want React to work then you must use either "Retirement Allowed" or give ti a "Patrol" setting. Even a Patrol area of a single hex works fine (I mean technically works fine, I am not recommending any specific patrol setting).

You didn't specify if they are set to Remain on Station or on Patrol so I thought I would point out that issue.


I'm away from home right now but I thought reaction played off of detection level. If an enemy TF tries to push through the checkerboard the Glens or other subs have a chance of detecting the enemy TF. As detection levels increase and based on some roll(s) of the dice, ships in the area can "react" to the enemy presence and attempt an intercept.



Apples and concrete. AFAIK what you wrote is correct. What I wrote is that setting "Remain on Station" orders the TF not to react (confirmed by developers more than once and borne out in practice).

So if the TF is close by and there is a good D/L on a target TF, you get the TF commander sitting there as the target goes by thinking "I hope Admiral Dumbbell knows what he is doing!"


Ahhh - I C what U're saying - thanx 4 explaining. Can you get by this problem by setting a patrol of the same hex for either two or all three patrol locations?


No, works fine with Patrol. BTW you only have to set one hex for a Patrol, the second and third hexes are optional.

(in reply to 1EyedJacks)
Post #: 454
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 8/9/2012 6:26:14 PM   
1EyedJacks


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From: The Eastern Sierras
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

Regarding your picket line:

Have you considered placing then every other hex with reaction @ one? and maybe every other sub with a Glen?

I think you could cover roughly the same area 2 deep like a checkerboard and get better results...


Good idea, and it would make it almost watertight. But I have almost all my Glen subs in the pacific.


That does bring in another factor-- agression. The current deployment, with I assume some vertical movement to sweep the area like a "boy scout search", will test only Naval skill and a random die roll if the two objects meet in a 46 mile hex. The suggested configuration does brings into play a 'or' equation meaning if 'a' reacts or 'b' reacts we get a contact ... It has been my antidotal experince playing agasint the scripts to learn the game that the checkerbaord configuration does rely on Glens since the IJ subs do not have RADAR like the Allies after April 42 to get the naval reaction algorithum in play ... . ... Just my .02 ...

It has been a very exciting and unique game so far!

One thing that was confirmed a long time ago by the developers and I've never seen contradicted by experience:

Setting a TF to "Remain on Station" also wipes out any "React" setting. In other words it makes React = 0 because you are telling the TF to stay in the hex it is ordered to.

If you want React to work then you must use either "Retirement Allowed" or give ti a "Patrol" setting. Even a Patrol area of a single hex works fine (I mean technically works fine, I am not recommending any specific patrol setting).

You didn't specify if they are set to Remain on Station or on Patrol so I thought I would point out that issue.


I'm away from home right now but I thought reaction played off of detection level. If an enemy TF tries to push through the checkerboard the Glens or other subs have a chance of detecting the enemy TF. As detection levels increase and based on some roll(s) of the dice, ships in the area can "react" to the enemy presence and attempt an intercept.



Apples and concrete. AFAIK what you wrote is correct. What I wrote is that setting "Remain on Station" orders the TF not to react (confirmed by developers more than once and borne out in practice).

So if the TF is close by and there is a good D/L on a target TF, you get the TF commander sitting there as the target goes by thinking "I hope Admiral Dumbbell knows what he is doing!"


Ahhh - I C what U're saying - thanx 4 explaining. Can you get by this problem by setting a patrol of the same hex for either two or all three patrol locations?


No, works fine with Patrol. BTW you only have to set one hex for a Patrol, the second and third hexes are optional.


Thanx for the education <grin>


_____________________________

TTFN,

Mike

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Post #: 455
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 8/9/2012 8:23:13 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

CL Boise is sunk off Port Hedland. After a night engagement against CA Haguro, Boise was retreating west when Kates from Zuiho caught her.


The much-dreaded Boise is gone? Well, at least you can claim one significant accomplishment.

_____________________________

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--Victor Hugo

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Post #: 456
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 8/9/2012 9:31:17 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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quote:


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Bataan (78,77)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2574 troops, 162 guns, 196 vehicles, Assault Value = 976

Defending force 24348 troops, 354 guns, 297 vehicles, Assault Value = 95


Allied ground losses:
184 casualties reported
Squads: 29 destroyed, 7 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 3 (3 destroyed, 0 disabled)


Assaulting units:
21st/B Division
10th Garrison Unit
33rd Division
11th Garrison Unit
20th Ind. Engineer Regiment
16th Division
21st/C Division
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
2nd Mortar Battalion
16th Army
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
19th Ind. Engineer Regiment
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Ind. Engineer Regiment

Defending units:
31st PA Infantry Division
11th PA Infantry Division
1st PA Infantry Division
45th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
2nd PA Constblry HW Regiment
Manila Bay Defenses
4th PA Constabulary Regiment
Provisional GMC Grp
Asiatic Fleet
91st PA Infantry Division
USAFFE
41st PA Infantry Division
88th PS Field Artillery Regiment
301st Construction Battalion
1st PA Constabulary Regiment
57th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
Far East USAAF
26th PS Cavalry Regiment
201st PA Construction Battalion
194th Tank Battalion
2nd PA Constabulary Regiment
200th & 515th Coast AA Regiment
31st Infantry Regiment
803rd Engineer Aviation Battalion
51st PA Infantry Division
21st PA Infantry Division
202nd PA Construction Battalion
Cavite USN Base Force
Bataan USN Base Force
4th Marine Regiment
Clark Field USAAF Base Force
301st PA Field Artillery Regiment


Im ordering another shock attack tomorrow. If it fails again I dont know what I'll do..

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 457
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 8/9/2012 9:36:28 PM   
ny59giants


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How much flak are your bombing attacks over Bataan getting?? You can usually tell how bad the supply situation is by how little flak.

_____________________________


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Post #: 458
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 8/9/2012 9:38:05 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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No flak at all for the past month

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 459
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 8/9/2012 11:03:43 PM   
Hanzberger


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I'm liking your overall plan~! BANZAI


_____________________________


Japan AC wire chart here
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2769286&mpage=1&key=?

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Post #: 460
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 8/10/2012 10:07:39 AM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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Bataan has fallen. Finally.

My troops crossed into Singapore, but I made a simple misstake, that cost alot. I had to rush the turn to get it out before I had to leave the computer, and as a result, I accidentally moved a command hq into Singapore, and I forgot to do several things that would have caused less losses in the crossing. As a result, two divisions are completely trashed, and a command hq is in a combat hex. I asked Canoe not to attack while I get my command hq out of the way. Annoying misstake, I had set all units to follow, then cancelled the move orders for the command hq, but then I changed to let a hvy art unit lead the march, and forgot to reset the movement orders for the hq. On top of that I forgot to order several hundred bombers to attack, and paras to jump.

In China, Canoe is pulling back to Sian. Amazingly he is leaving his easy to defend positions in WR-hexes.. I dont know where he is pulling back to..








Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Hanzberger)
Post #: 461
RE: OPERATION KIERA - 8/10/2012 3:53:28 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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Scene at the Imperial HQ.

Chief of Staff:
Sir, there seems to be a massive counterattack mounting south of Changsa. As much as 36 units might be about to attack our 4 divisions cutting the Changsa railline. Intelligence estimates are sketchy but there are as many as 300 000 Chinese soldiers reported in that area.

Hortlund:
Those troops are in terrain that prevents a retreat in time to avoid the threat, they must stand and fight.
[turns to IJAAF and IJNAF commanders]
You two, all airunits are to be committed to this defensive battle. Bring everyone.

Chief of IJAAF:
Everyone?

Hortlund:



_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Panzerjaeger Hortlund)
Post #: 462
RE: OPERATION KIERA - 8/10/2012 4:06:25 PM   
Cribtop


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_____________________________


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Post #: 463
RE: OPERATION KIERA - 8/10/2012 4:08:58 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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..




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_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 464
RE: OPERATION KIERA - 8/10/2012 7:57:04 PM   
zuluhour


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After watching Dan's last game, I konw he like the "super sized" Chinese stack. It would leave me to believe its two reinforced Army Groups. He has got to have a very "tender" spot somewhere. Reco by fire, ac, anything. Find it. It's there.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 465
RE: OPERATION KIERA - 8/10/2012 8:25:41 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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Two days have passed. The stacks should arrive soon. My airforce is causing a little over 1100 casualties per day. I hope it is enough. Waiting for them are about 1800 AV in open ground, with perhaps fort lvl 1.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to zuluhour)
Post #: 466
RE: OPERATION KIERA - 8/10/2012 8:36:31 PM   
zuluhour


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What kind of combat power do you have? guns? tanks?

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Post #: 467
RE: OPERATION KIERA - 8/10/2012 10:04:05 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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Just 4 infantry divisions

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to zuluhour)
Post #: 468
RE: OPERATION KIERA - 8/11/2012 12:06:35 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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Still no crossing. Im setting up an air-bridge to make sure the supplies stay in the white. I have roughly 300 bombers and 100 transports flying support for these troops now.

In India we are about to close the trap around Calcutta. It seems there will be a battle for the city. After Singapore I might have to move in more troops.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Panzerjaeger Hortlund)
Post #: 469
RE: OPERATION KIERA - 8/11/2012 1:28:06 PM   
zuluhour


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If Dan thinks he may lose "big" on the Yangtze he will not cross and of course he may be trying to make you commit to one area so he can.....If he is still coming, I asked Alfred about river crossings last night because I am looking at several in Burma, and heres what he shared with me ( this does not include some degree of disruption also):

If both the hexes that the attacker is moving from and to, are controlled by the attacker, and the river hexside is also controlled by the attacker, then wouldn't the attacker be free to move into the hex.

Or stepping thru the process.
1. Attacker crosses river hexside into the enemy controled hex - shock attack
2. Hex control stays with defender as he was not forced out of hex. River hexside controled by attacker.
3. Attacker moves more units into hex over river hexside - possible shock attack based on AV comparison (1/3)
4. Defender forced out of hex - hex control goes to attacker.
5. Defender moves back into hex.
6. Attacker moves units into hex across river hexside - no attack forced as attacker controls both hexes and river hexsides (NEW).

Can anyone see any flaw in this logic? All steps but (#6) is how it is now.


ps. (Zulu) I don't get #5.


Just changed 'ownership' to 'control'
< Message edited by michaelm -- 8/25/2011 3:21:18 AM >

The short answer is that a shock attack does not always ensue for subsequent crossings. But for the initial crossing a shock attack should ensue, provided the units in the initial crossing have some AV.


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Post #: 470
RE: OPERATION KIERA - 8/11/2012 1:36:17 PM   
zuluhour


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From: Maryland
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PH, I should mention that I followed Dans last game closely and have decided to view a game against him. I visited his AAR in the beginning but have no idea of his intentions or dispositions. I am only in my first PBEM so lack experience to help you in any meaningful fashion but if I can bring Alfreds or Michaelm's comments to bear when relevent to save your brain power for more important matters, so be it, if it's ok by you.

Supreme Allied Comander
TWIT Zuluhour CnC

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Post #: 471
RE: OPERATION KIERA - 8/11/2012 2:42:03 PM   
witpqs


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One clarification based on Micahel's past posts:

quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour


Or stepping thru the process.
1. Attacker crosses river hexside into the enemy controled hex - shock attack
2. Hex control stays with defender as he was not forced out of hex. River hexside controled by attacker.
3. Attacker moves more units into hex over river hexside - possible shock attack based on AV comparison (1/3) This AV comparison uses the Attacker AV ALREADY IN THE HEX (that is, not counting the Attacker troops that are crossing the river that same turn). The rationale is that the comparison determines if the attacker already has a sufficiently-sized bridgehead to avoid further mandatory shock attacks.
4. Defender forced out of hex - hex control goes to attacker.
5. Defender moves back into hex.



(in reply to zuluhour)
Post #: 472
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 8/11/2012 3:07:45 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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Canoe is moving into the hex now. In doing so, he has more or less abandoned Changsa. I really must risk a shock attack here, there are not many opportunities like this. I will be facing lvl 4 forts or higher. But still, we must attack.

If I fail to defend the river and lose at Changsa, I will have to move large parts of the Manchurian army into China. So, we might see a soviet activation...






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Panzerjaeger Hortlund)
Post #: 473
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 8/11/2012 3:10:39 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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This is what it looks like

Ground combat at Changsha (82,52)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4564 troops, 38 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1608

Defending force 31437 troops, 235 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 979

Japanese ground losses:
26 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



Assaulting units:
58th Division
12th Ind.Mixed Brigade
10th Division
19th Division
24th Division
13th Army

Defending units:
3rd New Chinese Corps
26th Chinese Corps
73rd Chinese Corps
53rd Chinese Corps
5th Construction Regiment
30th Group Army
17th Chinese Base Force
41st AA Regiment


_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Panzerjaeger Hortlund)
Post #: 474
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 8/11/2012 3:11:35 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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So, for tomorrow. Every avaliable bomber will sortie for Changsha, after that, our troops there will perform a shock attack.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Panzerjaeger Hortlund)
Post #: 475
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 8/11/2012 3:24:15 PM   
1EyedJacks


Posts: 1933
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From: The Eastern Sierras
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

So, for tomorrow. Every avaliable bomber will sortie for Changsha, after that, our troops there will perform a shock attack.


Just curious - no combat engineers or arty? Do you have any HQs available that might contribute positively to the die rolls? Can I also ask how the supplies are for the troops you'll be attacking with? Plenty of beans, bullets, and bandages seem to make a big difference in combat... <grin>


_____________________________

TTFN,

Mike

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Post #: 476
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 8/11/2012 3:26:56 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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No engineers or arty except organic. Supplies in the whites, support is green and a command HQ in range.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to 1EyedJacks)
Post #: 477
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 8/11/2012 3:38:47 PM   
1EyedJacks


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I think the combat modifiers are still against you on this... Cities R X3 - right? Plus level 4 forts... Even with good weather and multiple air groups hitting the target to pound in some disruption, I think your odds are still on the short end of the stick.

What's your GOTH plan?


_____________________________

TTFN,

Mike

(in reply to Panzerjaeger Hortlund)
Post #: 478
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 8/11/2012 3:56:50 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


Posts: 2699
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline
GOTH?

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to 1EyedJacks)
Post #: 479
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 8/11/2012 4:11:46 PM   
1EyedJacks


Posts: 1933
Joined: 3/12/2006
From: The Eastern Sierras
Status: offline
Ah - when things GO To Hell plan... :-)


_____________________________

TTFN,

Mike

(in reply to Panzerjaeger Hortlund)
Post #: 480
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