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RE: Operation Natalie

 
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RE: Operation Natalie - 6/30/2012 1:57:29 PM   
desicat

 

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I think landing at Chittagong is a good idea, I'm just curious to see where you plan on drawing the line for the defensive perimeter.

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RE: OPERATION NATALIE is on! - 6/30/2012 4:27:07 PM   
Olorin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

This is just a fake post, in case Canoe spots the thread subject. I want him to think there is something huge in the making, but I dont want to talk about it or drop hints in emails. Thats just too obvious. Sigint, recon reports and other means are much better to create the impression something big is going on.


Great name for an operation I suspect it has something to do with the lovely lady in your avatar.

Regarding a landing in Chittagong, I've pulled it off in October '42 against an allied player that had a large army in forward deployment, thus trapping some 2500 allied AV in the jungle. I could have marched to Calcutta and claimed its industry but I didn't.
Since, in this game it's only early '42, such a landing has a good chance to succeed, imho.
The only problem I can see is Port Blair remaining in allied hands. You must be in control of the Andaman Sea in order to feed the Indian industry with fuel with relative safety.


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Post #: 332
RE: Operation Natalie - 6/30/2012 4:31:20 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: desicat

I think landing at Chittagong is a good idea, I'm just curious to see where you plan on drawing the line for the defensive perimeter.


I'm thinking the strategy is that no defensive line is needed if the IJ achieves an auto-victory

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Post #: 333
RE: Operation Natalie - 6/30/2012 4:34:04 PM   
Historiker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: desicat

I think landing at Chittagong is a good idea, I'm just curious to see where you plan on drawing the line for the defensive perimeter.


I'm thinking the strategy is that no defensive line is needed if the IJ achieves an auto-victory

auto-victory stinks and is only for playing the AI

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(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 334
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 6/30/2012 5:48:51 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: desicat

Having actually sailed through the straits on a Carrier they are not very wide and there is little to no room for maneuver in the navigable channels.

The fact that the British guns were not targeting the strait was not a known fact at the time and not even the craziest Admiral would chance running a Battle Group through that gauntlet with the airfields in and around Singapore in enemy hands and operational.

The harbor defense guns could possibly have been discarded but any infantry artillery would have been able to be positioned to pound passing ships. Old fashioned fire ships or channel blockers COULD have been employed to create serious havoc.

Just because something was possible with the perfect knowledge of hindsight doesn't make it something that could be casually done without considering the risk and the unknowns in the present (game time).


Not trying to hijack, so last one on this for me. I just haven't ever seen a discussion of the sailing-past-Singers issue in the forum before and it tweaked my interest.

I have not consulted nav charts of the passage, but atlas maps seem to show a strait about 7-8 miles wide for most of its length. I don't know how wide the dredged channel would have been in 1941, pre-supertanker, but less.

As I thought about the FC issue I also thought about a tactical topic which I've never seen discussed re WITP or AE at all, and that is the absence of smoke as a screen in the game engine. DDs had smoke generators as far back as WWI or earlier, and smoke was used quite a bit in the PTO, at least as late as Leyte Gulf (Taffy 3 action.) Also, in sum, the 15in batteries constituted less than one BB's-worth of tubes, and there were widely separated in known, fixed positions. Smoke rounds and/or harrassment fire from escorts could have helped a passage. And the 6in and any army artillery which could be brought up would not trouble BBs or CAs. Mobile arty would have been fully exposed to counter-fire from the ships as well. At flank a passing force would have been in range for about 90 minutes, give or take. I don't know the rate of fire for the 15in batteries, or the amount of ready ammo, but five tubes would have been an acceptable risk IMO. Admirals in many wars, from the ACW to the RN in the Napoleonic era, challenged shore batteries when necessary. It could be done.

Of course, the IJN didn't need to do it, so it wasn't done. But in game terms I think an HR forbidding it being tried is unwise. As I believe GJ said, the routing rolls sometimes blunder ships into Singer's hex even when told not to; I've had that happen with subs I've sent past which fell to mines. And the air threat is also a factor. But a Japanese player willing to take the risk, and to be cut off from fuel as he goes north up the Burmese coast, ought to be allowed to try. And the narrow strait rules are there to let him. Or, in this case, aren't there.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 6/30/2012 5:55:41 PM >


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RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 6/30/2012 6:32:24 PM   
desicat

 

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You are correct that the BB's and the CA's would have little to fear from shore based artillery but the CV's would be the main targets and with that in mind the risk would be too high (IMHO).

High speed runs of navigable channels are tricky things to pull off safely. If you were in charge of a Torpedo Squadron could you imagine anything better than your targets transiting in a channel passage with limited maneuvering room?

A few sacrificial British DD's (under the cover of smoke screens?) with air support would really slow the transit down and possibly force passing ships out of the charted navigation channels as they are forced to dodge DD torpedo attacks.

Could the Japanese force their way through? Sure. If the Scharnhorst an the Prince Eugen could survive the Channel Dash anything is possible. The question to ask is; Is the risk worth the reward? For the German's the Channel Dash was worth the risk, would the loss or damage to IJN CV's trying to force the strait (when other options were available) meet the same criteria?

As far as the house rule goes I could see any combat ships other than the CV's making the run. With the British airfields unsuppressed I probably would not try it myself.

"I have not consulted nav charts of the passage, but atlas maps seem to show a strait about 7-8 miles wide for most of its length. I don't know how wide the dredged channel would have been in 1941, pre-supertanker, but less."

From Wiki: At Phillips Channel close to the south of Singapore, the Strait of Malacca narrows to 2.8 km (1.5 nautical miles) wide, creating one of the world's most significant traffic choke points.[6]

< Message edited by desicat -- 6/30/2012 6:44:11 PM >

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Post #: 336
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 6/30/2012 6:35:49 PM   
Q-Ball


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I don't think the Buona Vista Battery guns could actually reach the Malayan shore. What I don't know is how deep the channel is over there, and how close a large ship could actually SAIL toward shore.

Here is an article about that particular battery, which is now a housing development:

http://www.fortsiloso.com/batteries/bv/bv.htm

On Google Maps, if you look for "Ulu Pandan Road Singapore", it will take you right to the location

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 6/30/2012 6:38:21 PM >

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Post #: 337
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 6/30/2012 6:52:38 PM   
Historiker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: desicat

Having actually sailed through the straits on a Carrier they are not very wide and there is little to no room for maneuver in the navigable channels.

The fact that the British guns were not targeting the strait was not a known fact at the time and not even the craziest Admiral would chance running a Battle Group through that gauntlet with the airfields in and around Singapore in enemy hands and operational.

The harbor defense guns could possibly have been discarded but any infantry artillery would have been able to be positioned to pound passing ships. Old fashioned fire ships or channel blockers COULD have been employed to create serious havoc.

Just because something was possible with the perfect knowledge of hindsight doesn't make it something that could be casually done without considering the risk and the unknowns in the present (game time).


Not trying to hijack, so last one on this for me. I just haven't ever seen a discussion of the sailing-past-Singers issue in the forum before and it tweaked my interest.

I have not consulted nav charts of the passage, but atlas maps seem to show a strait about 7-8 miles wide for most of its length. I don't know how wide the dredged channel would have been in 1941, pre-supertanker, but less.

As I thought about the FC issue I also thought about a tactical topic which I've never seen discussed re WITP or AE at all, and that is the absence of smoke as a screen in the game engine. DDs had smoke generators as far back as WWI or earlier, and smoke was used quite a bit in the PTO, at least as late as Leyte Gulf (Taffy 3 action.) Also, in sum, the 15in batteries constituted less than one BB's-worth of tubes, and there were widely separated in known, fixed positions. Smoke rounds and/or harrassment fire from escorts could have helped a passage. And the 6in and any army artillery which could be brought up would not trouble BBs or CAs. Mobile arty would have been fully exposed to counter-fire from the ships as well. At flank a passing force would have been in range for about 90 minutes, give or take. I don't know the rate of fire for the 15in batteries, or the amount of ready ammo, but five tubes would have been an acceptable risk IMO. Admirals in many wars, from the ACW to the RN in the Napoleonic era, challenged shore batteries when necessary. It could be done.

Of course, the IJN didn't need to do it, so it wasn't done. But in game terms I think an HR forbidding it being tried is unwise. As I believe GJ said, the routing rolls sometimes blunder ships into Singer's hex even when told not to; I've had that happen with subs I've sent past which fell to mines. And the air threat is also a factor. But a Japanese player willing to take the risk, and to be cut off from fuel as he goes north up the Burmese coast, ought to be allowed to try. And the narrow strait rules are there to let him. Or, in this case, aren't there.

If they are able to fire into the straight, the risk is too high. A single gun in a fixed position usually can aim more easy than a moving target, right? 6in are more than enough to seriously damage a CA, and the Japanese knew very well that damage above the armour can be sufficiant to sink any ship by damage and fire - they did so themselves in 1895 and 1905.
Would you really risk ships in a small shipping channel that might even be mined while getting under fire from various guns between 6 and 15in? What gains justify such a gamble?

One 15in hit in the right spot against a possible well trained battery that can easy measure fireing distances by former training - no matter that is true or not, you have to anticipate it...

Well, good luck and let's hope you aren't an admiral for Carthago which crucifies you when you loose a battle...

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RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 6/30/2012 10:44:03 PM   
PaxMondo


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Spent a fair amount of time in Singers back when.  Shipping channel is crowded, narrow, and runs fairly close to Singers.  It is maintained.  From the top of Pearl Hill (I think that is what it is called, its the big hill just a bit behind Raffles.  5 minute run from Raffles) in Singers, on a clear day (rare), you can easily see the shipping moving.  Generally, haze limits your visibility to maybe 5 miles, prolly less.  So the channel is more than 5 miles off the coast of Singers, but less than 10.  At least, that is where it was in the 60/70/80's.  I would not expect them to have shifted it.

The cd guns pointed out towards the harbor and the channel, there is or at least used to be, several monuments where those were. My opinion, based purely on talking with people back there at that time, is that the guns may or may not have been able to close the channel. Prolly closer to may not. BUT, that was not information widely known at all. Instead Singers was widely believed in the day to be impregnable fortress. I beleive that the IJ thought they could not transit and have always played with that assumption even though the reality is that they may very well have been able to.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 6/30/2012 10:48:47 PM >


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RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 7/10/2012 2:48:06 PM   
witpqs


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Is the Eastern Wind still blowing?

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Post #: 340
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 7/10/2012 8:16:50 PM   
CaptDave

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Is the Eastern Wind still blowing?


Per his esteemed opponent, PH was away for a week and is now away for another week on vacation at a remote spot with unreliable Internet. He did get one turn sent, but probably hasn't been able to update the AAR.

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Post #: 341
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 7/10/2012 8:26:59 PM   
witpqs


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Thanks! I only read one side of this contest so that I may comment freely.

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RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 7/13/2012 8:49:38 PM   
CaptDave

 

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And I say nothing because I do read both sides! Apparently he got a turn or two off this week, but no posts here.

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RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 7/17/2012 12:26:34 PM   
Galahad78

 

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First time I read both sides of an AAR and it is tremendously entertaining. In fact, I'm learning a lot with this side of the AAR. Keep it coming!

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RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 7/18/2012 2:07:11 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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Hey guys. Sorry about the slow postings here. First I had a business trip, and after that 10 days with sporadic internet. Things should be back to normal now though.

Dont have too much to report, the game is right now in a shuffeling-around-forces-stage.

Another attack failed at Anchorage. The Gds Mixed Bde has been bled down to 20% troop strength, and will go back to Tokyo for R&R when the base falls. 4th Brigade is on the way from Korea (it is one of those 80 exp-units I love). 2nd Div will attack again tomorrow to wear down the defenders, and in about 4 days, the 4th will arrive.

6th Guards Division just formed at Cam Rahn Bay, and they will go to Johore Bahru to keep the Singapore-containment. This will enable me to move the 56th Div out from there, they will go to Java to kill off Soerebaja, in case the units there need help.

One of the divisions from Clark is heading to Timor to take out the Koepang defences.

Darwin is about to fall, my tank units have been roaming free in the fields south of Darwin, killing off most of the fleeing defenders.

China is China. Not much to report.

A CS raider is all the way on the map-edge south of San Diego, trying to hunt down convoys. Problem is that the Jakes on the CS cant seem to hit anything. I have a CV-unit in the area steaming south. These units are all part of the maskirovka to make Canoe think there is a real threat to the West Coast.

And I just did a sweep over Vancouver. Naturally, this is not something that I can sustain, since it means fighting at 12 hexes range, over a huge enemy base. But I want to keep Canoe on his toes. I will send the occasional sweep like this, and perhaps some bombers aswell in the near future.




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The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

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RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 7/18/2012 5:24:39 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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Im not sure how to react to this. So any opinions are appreciated.

I had alot of high-value US ships cornered. Several APs, AOs, TKs, AEs, etc. I had a CS a couple of hexes away, and the enemy ships were without anywhere to run. From the north came 4 of my CVs, to the west, my CS with escorts, to the east, the map-edge. The only way was south, and I was "herding" the US ships with my CS while I was waiting for the CVs to arrive.

Then, the next turn, all the US ships were gone. Completely vanished from the face of the ocean. I spent another turn looking around, in case they had made an unexpected full-speed run, or broken up the convoy...nothing.

Then I spotted them in the Panama in-box. So, he saved his 10-15 high-value ships by moving them off the map, while I had ships not two hexes away.

Fair?

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

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RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 7/18/2012 5:49:01 PM   
Lecivius


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I see nothing gamey, but I am a n00b at such things.  You are conquering the northern area, and have a viable threat operating east of PH.  In the opening moves of a way, keeping high value equipment out of harm’s way until such time as there are sufficient resources available to defend them, and to use them properly, is only prudent.  In fact, there is an Alternate history fiction book (and of course, I forget the name & title) that describes just this happening when PH was taken by the Japanese..

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RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 7/18/2012 6:35:56 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

Im not sure how to react to this. So any opinions are appreciated.

I had alot of high-value US ships cornered. Several APs, AOs, TKs, AEs, etc. I had a CS a couple of hexes away, and the enemy ships were without anywhere to run. From the north came 4 of my CVs, to the west, my CS with escorts, to the east, the map-edge. The only way was south, and I was "herding" the US ships with my CS while I was waiting for the CVs to arrive.

Then, the next turn, all the US ships were gone. Completely vanished from the face of the ocean. I spent another turn looking around, in case they had made an unexpected full-speed run, or broken up the convoy...nothing.

Then I spotted them in the Panama in-box. So, he saved his 10-15 high-value ships by moving them off the map, while I had ships not two hexes away.

Fair?


Hmmmmm, probably deserves an email. If they were headed to the worm hole anyway, not so gamy, if they came out, saw you and ducked back in perhaps a little gamy. Probably a little FOW as there are no AE's that arrive on the east coast, and there would little reason to send one through. I believe you guys are playing with no house rules and this is the first time I ever heard of the Canal Zone wormhole being an issue. I'd drop CR a note.

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RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 7/18/2012 6:37:57 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

Then I spotted them in the Panama in-box. So, he saved his 10-15 high-value ships by moving them off the map, while I had ships not two hexes away.

Fair?

It's a limitation of the game. I've had ships cornered against the southern map edge where IRL ships would have lots of ocean to flee into (and IJN CVs would not have enough fuel to catch them).

I don't know exactly where the ships were when they were ordered to Panama, maybe a better course of action (from a friendly competition standpoint) would have been to have them go full-speed to San Diego or LA and seek shelter under land based AA. You might be the first guy with IJN carriers cruising around that area!

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RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 7/18/2012 6:40:25 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

Im not sure how to react to this. So any opinions are appreciated.

I had alot of high-value US ships cornered. Several APs, AOs, TKs, AEs, etc. I had a CS a couple of hexes away, and the enemy ships were without anywhere to run. From the north came 4 of my CVs, to the west, my CS with escorts, to the east, the map-edge. The only way was south, and I was "herding" the US ships with my CS while I was waiting for the CVs to arrive.

Then, the next turn, all the US ships were gone. Completely vanished from the face of the ocean. I spent another turn looking around, in case they had made an unexpected full-speed run, or broken up the convoy...nothing.

Then I spotted them in the Panama in-box. So, he saved his 10-15 high-value ships by moving them off the map, while I had ships not two hexes away.

Fair?


Hmmmmm, probably deserves an email. If they were headed to the worm hole anyway, not so gamy, if they came out, saw you and ducked back in perhaps a little gamy. Probably a little FOW as there are no AE's that arrive on the east coast, and there would little reason to send one through. I believe you guys are playing with no house rules and this is the first time I ever heard of the Canal Zone wormhole being an issue. I'd drop CR a note.


IMO a test could/should be if he tries to turn them around and comes back out in less than the time it should take to get them to the Canal Zone and flip them. The devs have long said the code is not designed to turn ships around in off-map areas, and can cause bugs and other DB horribles. CR has turned ships around in off-map areas in other games, I believe with no visible ill effects. But the off-map shouldn't be a get out of jail free card when being chased unless the Alied player is prepared to incur the time cost of a round trip.

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RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 7/18/2012 7:02:45 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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They were not heading to the canal, if they were, they would have gone right at the off-map-box just off San Diego. They went south for 20-something hexes from San Diego, and then went into the box...

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In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

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Post #: 351
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 7/18/2012 7:07:36 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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The brits have gotten themselves into a mess at Port Blair. For some reason, he is reinforcing here. Including with aircraft...precious, rare, RAF fighters.

An airfield attack damaged a couple of Hurricane IIb:s on the ground. The next turn I stood down the bombers and swept with several Oscars and Zeros, meeting two RAF fighter units on CAP. Hurricane IIa:s and IIb:s, about two fighter wings it seems.

Problem for Canoe is that there is nowhere to run now. Im alternating between sweeps and airfield attacks, and by now I estimate the fighter units to be down to 30% strenght. I'll continue to bomb the base until I torch them all on the ground. Silly misstake really. He made the same error with a part of the AVG in China. Using them in a base without railroads...once they are grounded due to fighter sweeps, there is no saving them from the bombers....




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Panzerjaeger Hortlund)
Post #: 352
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 7/18/2012 7:09:06 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

They were not heading to the canal, if they were, they would have gone right at the off-map-box just off San Diego. They went south for 20-something hexes from San Diego, and then went into the box...


The gut feeling I get is that they were going south along the map-edge, that is a pretty common convoy route for the allies, and when the CVs came closing in, he just warped away into the canal zone...

Odd thing is that the APs were empty. I wonder where they were heading and why.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

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Post #: 353
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 7/18/2012 7:16:02 PM   
Walloc

 

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Im also on the this is not gamey in an unfair sense at all band wagon. Its a result of a map edge. Opposite opinion would have the effect that, it would be fair to trap ships vs a map edge, just cuz there is an arbitrary map edge. This is a known feature. So i see no problem what so ever.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

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RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 7/18/2012 7:21:21 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

They were not heading to the canal, if they were, they would have gone right at the off-map-box just off San Diego. They went south for 20-something hexes from San Diego, and then went into the box...


Hard to comment intelligently without seeing the map. I just did test to verify, ordering five different at-sea TFs to change homeport to Balboa and head there. All were SW of San Diego, some a little, some a lot.

TFs at SD itself will enter at the extreme northern end of the shaded portion of the transit route at 226, 83. Anything south of that and they shift to a course of 090 true and head along the X-axis for the shaded portion in a straight line. If his were 20-hexes south of SD they would have headed due east from that hex. Depending how far west they were they might make it in a turn, or not.

Given FOW, how do you know that whatever you're seeing in the transit route is what you were chasing?

Regardless of whether they were headed to the Zone before being chased or after, I think in a game with no HRs that using off-map mechanics is valid. But as I said, what is not valid per game design parameters often stated by the dev team coders is turning around in the off-map transit routes. This was never intended to be done, it may break the game, and is risky at best to stability. michaelm has had to repair multiple saved games over the past years for people who did this type of move. It isn't a matter of being "gamey" but rather a matter of taking advantage of clicks which don't have error trapping to prevent them being recorded. The off-map math is not like on-map hex counting math. It has been described as a series of tables with pre-calculated quantities in the cells. Turning a TF around might work, it might break the save file, or it might do something else which isn't visible at the time. It's a match near gasoline.

That said, CR has done it in the past and reported it in AARs. At least once I pointed out to him that the devs say not to do it, but his comment, from memory, was it all looked fine and he wasn't worried. From memory this was concerning the Aden-to-IO wormhole.

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(in reply to Panzerjaeger Hortlund)
Post #: 355
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 7/18/2012 8:53:38 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Given FOW, how do you know that whatever you're seeing in the transit route is what you were chasing?


Cannot be 100% of cource. But I see alot of APs in the box, and the big convoy consisting of APs and other ships vanished somehow from right under our noses...

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The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
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Post #: 356
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 7/18/2012 9:03:21 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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So, the basic situation is this.

Im waiting for two CVs to return to Tokyo, right now they are ferrying some units of Zeros and Kates to the northern front. When they have dropped those units off, they will return to Tokyo and form up a 4 CV detachment of the KB. This unit will escort the Chittagong invasion together with the mini KB and most of my battleship line.

By that time, Im expecting to have 4 divisions from Clark in operational order. This force will sail the long way around, from Batavia on the outside of Sumatra, nort of Port Blair and then to Chittagong. Hopefully, this should take Canoe completely by surprise.

Meanwhile, I am moving in a menacing way with 3 CVs in the West Coast/North Pac-area. I will step up the fighter sweeps over WC-targets, and Im planning an industry attack in the Los Angeles-region in a couple of days.
I am also moving units towards Australia and Port Moresby. 38th Div will land on Timor in a couple of days, and the 56th Division will take Soerebaja in about two weeks.

My goal is to land at Chittagong around mid-March which is about one month from now.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Panzerjaeger Hortlund)
Post #: 357
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 7/18/2012 9:18:45 PM   
Historiker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

Im not sure how to react to this. So any opinions are appreciated.

I had alot of high-value US ships cornered. Several APs, AOs, TKs, AEs, etc. I had a CS a couple of hexes away, and the enemy ships were without anywhere to run. From the north came 4 of my CVs, to the west, my CS with escorts, to the east, the map-edge. The only way was south, and I was "herding" the US ships with my CS while I was waiting for the CVs to arrive.

Then, the next turn, all the US ships were gone. Completely vanished from the face of the ocean. I spent another turn looking around, in case they had made an unexpected full-speed run, or broken up the convoy...nothing.

Then I spotted them in the Panama in-box. So, he saved his 10-15 high-value ships by moving them off the map, while I had ships not two hexes away.

Fair?

It is the same with your second attack on PH in our game.

You can't expect your opponent to walk to the slaughterhouse. You exploited the fact that the map ends where there would be huge areas of oceans. He exploited the fact that there's the worm hole.

Bad luck, not enough conversation between the opponents to clarify the intended style of the game. But IMO: absolutly kosher! I would've done the same, as I see the only turn where I can expect anyone to deliberatly let himself get slaughtered is turn 1.

But once again: This different understanding ended our game, so I'd propose you chat with Canoe about how you want to play the game.

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(in reply to Panzerjaeger Hortlund)
Post #: 358
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 7/18/2012 10:14:51 PM   
Panzerjaeger Hortlund


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Well, Im not surprised you think its a good idea.

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The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

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Post #: 359
RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Ca... - 7/18/2012 11:36:50 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
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From: Deutschland
Status: offline
well, let's not start this over again...

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Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Panzerjaeger Hortlund)
Post #: 360
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