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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

 
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 10/28/2012 10:38:15 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8252
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From: Olympia, WA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Hehe, GO Gamecocks!!!



Yeah, right back to their mid-season dive... and the Bulldogs are back in the driver's seat for the SEC East title once again after taking out the hated Gators. Go Dawgs!!!

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 1321
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 10/28/2012 10:50:21 PM   
1EyedJacks


Posts: 1943
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

1) I don't think PzH had his dreams set on playing a strong defense. He is very aggressive. For some reason, he decided to stop his attack long before he should have/had to. At least, I think so. As with most aggressive players, he may not enjoy playing a drawn-out defensive game. I think that's the reason for his lack of interest in the game (not Real Life matters, though that may have contributed at an earlier point). Steve probably decided he didn't have a good shot at auto victory, so that he felt he had to go on the defensive. I think he had a shot, but I'm not positive.

2) I continue to believe that an experienced, gifted and aggressive IJ player in Scenario Two has a strong shot at auto victory. I can think of at least two players who, IMO, would have a very high probability of scoring an auto vic against me. That may be because of my style of play and the flaws included therein. The thing is, an IJ player would probably have to sacrifice long term health (IE, his prospects for a good defense should auto-vic fail so that the game went on into '44 and thereafter) in order to have a strong shot at it. Under the right conditions - IJ player with that mentality against an Allied player of my ability and typical "soft defense" strategy - auto vic is a distinct possibility. I think PzH had set things up very well to test out this theory, but decided to call it off. I wish he had gone for it. :)


In truth, the entire Japanese strategy in real-life was based on something very similar to an auto-victory. Hit the Americans so hard and scare them so bad that they'll just cede over any interest in their region of the world. Instead, as Adm. Yamato feared, they only succeeded in helping to awaken a slumbering giant.


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TTFN,

Mike

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 1322
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 10/28/2012 11:36:24 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 9788
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Georgia beating Florida makes the season. It really does. Tech? Who cares. Auburn? Who cares. Tennessee? Who cares. South Carolina? Right. Gators? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

(in reply to 1EyedJacks)
Post #: 1323
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 10/28/2012 11:40:20 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 9788
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Last weekend, Steve and I cordially exchanged emails about the status of the game. I invited Steve to resign. I encouraged him to resign. He declined to resign. He asked how often I needed turns. In a show of good sportsmanship, I told him - after thinking things through - that there were no expectations. He could send them whenever he wanted to.

And that's the last time I heard from him. No turn. No email saying no turns coming. No nothing.

Very soon now I will unilaterally declare this game over.

P.S. For those thinking, "Well, you said 'no expectations,'" it is implied therein some reasonable minimal courtesy and activity. Steve's conduct is beyond mystifying at this point.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 1324
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 10/28/2012 11:46:20 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6311
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Last weekend, Steve and I cordially exchanged emails about the status of the game. I invited Steve to resign. I encouraged him to resign. He declined to resign. He asked how often I needed turns. In a show of good sportsmanship, I told him - after thinking things through - that there were no expectations. He could send them whenever he wanted to.

And that's the last time I heard from him. No turn. No email saying no turns coming. No nothing.

Very soon now I will unilaterally declare this game over.

P.S. For those thinking, "Well, you said 'no expectations,'" it is implied therein some reasonable minimal courtesy and activity. Steve's conduct is beyond mystifying at this point.




And I miss Canoerebel...promise me that if this game ends you won't stop playing! Promise!!

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 1325
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 10/28/2012 11:46:37 PM   
denisonh


Posts: 2187
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From: Northern Virginia
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CR,if you expect a turn soon, say so. If you leave it open ended then your communicated expectations are met when nothing is forthcoming. Am I missing something?

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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 1326
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 10/28/2012 11:49:47 PM   
zuluhour


Posts: 3120
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
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another notch in the belt, albeit a cheapy....

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Post #: 1327
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 10/29/2012 12:58:07 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3799
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From: Lone Star Nation
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Oddly, we USC types had to pull for Georgia to retain any hope. Then Lattimore happened. Sigh.

As for the game, if it ends that's a shame, but is probably a de facto concession by PJH.

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Post #: 1328
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 10/29/2012 1:22:22 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 9788
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
...promise me that if this game ends you won't stop playing! Promise!!


I'm not going anywhere. This is the only game for me - at least for another decade or two. But I do think I'm going to take a sabbatical for awhile. I just can't imagine starting another game - all the patience, all the logistical work, all the planning and preparation that it takes to get the Allies ready to go later in '42 - wondering if my opponent will disappear for any of a variety of reasons. I'm temporarily burned out.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1329
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 10/29/2012 1:53:08 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
...promise me that if this game ends you won't stop playing! Promise!!


I'm not going anywhere. This is the only game for me - at least for another decade or two. But I do think I'm going to take a sabbatical for awhile. I just can't imagine starting another game - all the patience, all the logistical work, all the planning and preparation that it takes to get the Allies ready to go later in '42 - wondering if my opponent will disappear for any of a variety of reasons. I'm temporarily burned out.


Play the Japanese in AI. Get burned out in a whole new way!

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The Moose

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Post #: 1330
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 10/29/2012 2:22:09 AM   
princep01

 

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'Tis a shame; it really is.  This was a very interesting game given your opponent's early thrust to the North.  I'm sure it has been done in prior  games, but it is the first time I have seen it in an AAR.  I was really curious where it would go.  I hope that you will encourage your opponent to post in here and explain what his plan was if the game is cashed in.

CR, on a personal note, I am sorry this has happened to you in recent games.  It is a big time investment and a shame when your opponent just leaves you high and dry after months of play.

Oh, and one more thnig.  He is another potential opponent I will never play.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 1331
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 10/29/2012 3:51:32 AM   
corbon

 

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Just because you know what you implied, does not mean that someone else knows what you implied. You failed your communications here just as much as he has. Implications do not always carry over the same between cultures (surely your opponent is not "southern gentleman"?), especially when something is stated in black and white, and neither do 'expected courtesies'.

If you quit this game without at least another round of communications where you say what you mean, you will returning an assumed discourtesy with a deliberate discourtesy. At least based on what you've said here so far.

I don't disagree personally with your expectation. I'm just saying, until you square things away properly from your side, the wound is self inficted. You've gotten exactly what you asked for.

And yes, I'm biased towards seeing this game continue.

(in reply to princep01)
Post #: 1332
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 10/29/2012 5:23:57 AM   
Cap Mandrake

 

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Bummer.

Are there any marriage counselors in the audience?

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Post #: 1333
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 10/29/2012 2:30:46 PM   
Miller


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From: Ashington, England.
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It takes seconds to construct an email to say "Sorry busy this weekend, next turn Monday" or "Might be slow going for the next couple of weeks due to work" etc. PJH cannot even be bothered to do that. Pity all your effort into this game has gone to waste.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 1334
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 10/29/2012 6:31:16 PM   
SqzMyLemon


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Sorry to hear CR. I know you prefer the Allies, but have you thought of trying Japan to give yourself a new challenge and fresh outlook, not to mention open up a whole new range of prospective opponents to play?

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Post #: 1335
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 10/29/2012 7:08:18 PM   
JocMeister

 

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I think corbon has a good point CR! Send PjH a note and let him know how you feel.


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Post #: 1336
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 10/29/2012 8:18:42 PM   
Sardaukar


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There is always possibility that some other forumite will pick up the game if given the password.

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Post #: 1337
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 10/30/2012 12:19:05 AM   
JeffK


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Yep, I know all of CR's plans from his considerable ramblings.

Only problem is I'd have to play the JFB side.

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Post #: 1338
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 10/30/2012 1:09:15 AM   
Skyros


Posts: 1286
Joined: 9/29/2000
From: Columbia SC
Status: online
Seasons not over yet! Go Cocks!

CR hate to see this end was enjoying it very much.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Oddly, we USC types had to pull for Georgia to retain any hope. Then Lattimore happened. Sigh.

As for the game, if it ends that's a shame, but is probably a de facto concession by PJH.



_____________________________


(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 1339
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 11/2/2012 2:00:43 AM   
princep01

 

Posts: 939
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From: Texas
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Well, it appears the patient is well and truly dead.  Is it time to make it official?

It is a great loss to the Forum and the community that supports it.

(in reply to Skyros)
Post #: 1340
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 11/2/2012 2:11:48 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 14975
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From: Argleton
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At least this way in about 4 1/2 more years my AAR will catch up to this one in hit count!

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Post #: 1341
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 11/2/2012 3:56:02 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 9788
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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I want to give it a few more weeks, but I think the game is dead.

Two weeks ago, Steve assured me he didn't want to end the game. He asked me how often I wanted a turn. I told him whenever - "no expectations" and told him I'd have a turn back to him in an hour or two. Then I sent the turn. And I've never heard from him again. That was 12 or 13 days ago. I'll give it to around Thanksgiving, then I'll send him an email and start reading his AAR to see what persuaded him to "stand down" his offensive in the game just when he had reached the point where he could apply the coup-de-grace (I have no idea if I've spelled that correctly).

It took me a long time to reach the point where I was willing to see the game end, but I'm there now.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 1342
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 11/2/2012 4:54:44 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 7262
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From: Maryland
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Yep, it is like a toothache. It is just better to go ahead and have the tooth pulled rather than complain about the pain. By not doing anything PzH has already sent you a reply. There is no need to communicate with him any further. Wish him well and move on. My point is that it is better for you to end it now because in the end you will go through this again with him. I know when an opponent has lost heart. You might ask him to turn the game over to another willing player.

That said; we have to be realistic here when playing this game. I have a campaign going on now with Viperpol that has lasted three years. I consider myself incredibly lucky to have such a reliable and sporting opponent. However, in my ten years of playing this game, I have never had one go to the finish. There are many reasons but the reality is that to play a game that can last a year or four is pretty unique and takes an overwhelming commitment of time and energy. I don't think most players really understand it when they embark on a campaign. Failed games are the norm, not the exception. Just look at the AARs that are started and do not get past the first few months.

I wonder if it is just not better to agree to play the game in one year-or six month commitments. That is, you play for a year in game time then both mutually decide if you want to play longer. That way your expectation is limited to only one year.

I understand that there is a May 42 start scenario out there. You might just want to consider it for your next game. I think that my next campaign would be a purely historical campaign starting in May of 42 and perhaps ending one year later with the option to continue. This was really the most exciting time frame for me anyways in my current campaign.

One thing I am doing is making mental notes in my head about future opponents. I won't get into another campaign without careful consideration about who I am playing. In fact, perhaps the best course for me would be to send Viperpol a fruit basket and challenge him to another...

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(in reply to Canoerebel)
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 11/2/2012 5:12:31 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I want to give it a few more weeks, but I think the game is dead.

Two weeks ago, Steve assured me he didn't want to end the game. He asked me how often I wanted a turn. I told him whenever - "no expectations" and told him I'd have a turn back to him in an hour or two. Then I sent the turn. And I've never heard from him again. That was 12 or 13 days ago. I'll give it to around Thanksgiving, then I'll send him an email and start reading his AAR to see what persuaded him to "stand down" his offensive in the game just when he had reached the point where he could apply the coup-de-grace (I have no idea if I've spelled that correctly).

It took me a long time to reach the point where I was willing to see the game end, but I'm there now.


Giving nothing away, but I don't think you'll get a lot of answers from the AAR. Whatever happened on his end is not in there. You already know about the details he did release/discuss.

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The Moose

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 11/2/2012 5:16:04 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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Let me "Me too" crsutton on the May 1942 start scenario. I can't imagine what it must be like for you to have played the first six Allied months three times in a row and had no "pay off." I'm sure the May start means re-jiggering a lot of things to suit, but you start with a semblance of an air force, and without a lot of the tedious withdrawing bits and pieces of Dutch units all over the place, the retreat down Malaysia, the Bataan stuff, etc.. You can do the first turn really thinking about strategy and not housekeeping.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 11/2/2012 5:17:13 PM >


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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 11/2/2012 5:27:37 PM   
bradfordkay

 

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Wouldn't a "May '42 start" scenario rob the Japanese player of his fun?

I have no room to speak on this. I am in only my second PBEM. My first was a CHS game which ran until August 1944 when there was this massive alien abduction of one third of all our pilots (okay, the pilot bug hit us). We restarted with AE and are now in January 1944. I am one of the lucky ones...

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fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 1346
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 11/2/2012 5:48:58 PM   
Encircled


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Really sorry to hear this

Hope you can muster the energy to find another opponent soon

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Post #: 1347
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 11/2/2012 5:53:30 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 9788
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Yeah, a May '42 start would rob Japan of most of the pleasure. And, truth be told, my favorite part of the game is December 1941 through the end of 1942. I love the feeling of being "on the edge of disaster and defeat." It's fun to reach 1944 to use all the goodies the Allies have, but the greatest thrill is being on the edge.

Thanks for all the nice comments, gents. I'll start another game eventually, but I'm gonna sit back for awhile and enjoy the forums and reading about other games.

(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 1348
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 11/2/2012 7:06:36 PM   
obvert


Posts: 7279
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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yeah, a May '42 start would rob Japan of most of the pleasure. And, truth be told, my favorite part of the game is December 1941 through the end of 1942. I love the feeling of being "on the edge of disaster and defeat." It's fun to reach 1944 to use all the goodies the Allies have, but the greatest thrill is being on the edge.

Thanks for all the nice comments, gents. I'll start another game eventually, but I'm gonna sit back for awhile and enjoy the forums and reading about other games.


Starting in May 42 would rob your readers as well. You do such a good job of framing this period and creatively finding ways to punch back early. It just feels odd to me to start later. You learn so much about your opponent during this period and have chances to really alter the expected course.

I'll be interested to hear your take on his AAR. While it leaves off quite early it'll be interesting reading for you I'm sure.

_____________________________


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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 1349
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 11/2/2012 8:05:34 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 2624
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I want to give it a few more weeks, but I think the game is dead.

Two weeks ago, Steve assured me he didn't want to end the game. He asked me how often I wanted a turn. I told him whenever - "no expectations" and told him I'd have a turn back to him in an hour or two. Then I sent the turn. And I've never heard from him again. That was 12 or 13 days ago. I'll give it to around Thanksgiving, then I'll send him an email and start reading his AAR to see what persuaded him to "stand down" his offensive in the game just when he had reached the point where he could apply the coup-de-grace (I have no idea if I've spelled that correctly).

It took me a long time to reach the point where I was willing to see the game end, but I'm there now.


Giving nothing away, but I don't think you'll get a lot of answers from the AAR. Whatever happened on his end is not in there. You already know about the details he did release/discuss.


In my opinion the repsonses from PH slowed and then stopped after a posting http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3078021&mpage=18&key= from SuluSea:

quote:

"Hi PH, Do you have to buy out restricted units to move across borders?

I'm very interested in what you're doing with Manchukuo Garrison.

I see as of April 30, 1942 the Axis side gets 7,700 PPs , according to your screenie as of May 4, 42 you have 2393 in the bank.

Please don't take this as any kind of accusation and assuming you've done nothing but purchase AV from the Manchukuo I have trouble seeing how Manchukuo Garrison can be minus 3204 AV (at minimum)if the numbers are correct."


Then the game starts grinding down .. a death in the family .. and CR's posting here ...



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(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 1350
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