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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

 
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/26/2012 2:06:07 PM   
Canoerebel


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Don't think I don't know it. Back when you guys were two months behind us, I could take some comfort in Q-Ball's situation in China. No matter how bad things were for me, his situation was even worse...and he was still 60 days behind me. Now, however, you guys have caught up. He's still in a bit worse situation in China, but he does have the bases in India to fly in supply. I've lost those, so perhaps my situation is even more dire long term.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/26/2012 4:51:41 PM   
Canoerebel


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5/24/42

North America: Quiet. :)

Pacific: The KB is sliding south and is currently positioned near Johnston Island. The Allied carriers are south of Christmas and vacating the premises. Most of the Allied transports and escorts are well to the southwest and shouldn't have any problem reaching Luganville, Noumea and Fiji to disgorge their cargo and troops. I think the presence of so many Allied ships and the carriers will have the beneficial effect of persuading Steve that these key islands have been reinforced and thus aren't worth his attention. At least I hope that's the case with Palmyra, Christmas and Pago Pago. I don't want to commit troops to these "backwater" outposts, so I'm relying on the appearance of defenses.

Oz: Quiet.

India: The Allies are trying to close on two IJ armies - 18th Div. at Asenol and the little army that just got pushed out of Jamedspur. It'll be at least two more days before I'm in position to attack. The Allies have 3,000 AV in theater now split between the Ranchi and Patna sectors, with more in reserve. We're ready to joust, though I do think Steve is reinforcing. The Allies won't threaten Calcutta anytime soon, but neither will they get pushed around.

China: Still shifting troops around trying to maintain the new MLR and siphon off a reserve force to send to Chungking.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/26/2012 7:05:15 PM   
Canoerebel


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5/25/42

Pacific: The KB moved NE closer to Pearl Harbor. That could be trouble. I have two damaged BBs under repair there with but 30 Buffalos to provide CAP. (The other four damaged BBs are at the East Coast shipyard, which I chose due to the threat of enemy raids against the lower west coast.) Elsewhere, the Allied TFs enroute to the big ports in SoPac are making good progress.

Oz: Hmm, Steve landed a small force at Palm Island, just off Townsville. That's a hostile act that I would expect only if Steve had bigger plans in the region.

India: A bunch of unescorted Helens got chewed alive near Asanol - I think Steve lost 40+. KB Division B is still loitering in the Bay of Bengal.

China: No changes here.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/26/2012 10:57:13 PM   
BBfanboy


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Nice work on those Helens.
What fighters were in on the mayhem? Hurris? P-40s?
Also wondering if you loaded up your front line sqns with your best pilots?

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/27/2012 1:48:57 AM   
princep01

 

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evil laugh, Ser Greyjoy....

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/27/2012 1:59:24 PM   
Canoerebel


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I believe all the fighters were American - P-40, P-39 and a handful of P-38s. I haven't "goosed" the pilot roster. These are "regular joes" that have been in these squadrons since the day they arrived on map.

The RAF is present in India in a big way, but I haven't deployed them forward, yet.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/27/2012 4:05:14 PM   
JocMeister

 

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In my game I have found the only thing that can survive the Tojos are the Hurricanes and P38! So perhaps use them with caution?!

I have been putting my very best pilots in the P38 with very good results.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/27/2012 4:10:15 PM   
Canoerebel


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The air war is fascinating in the game. Overall, I've found that the Allied airforce does very well in defensive roles - including P-39s. I've likewise found that the Allies do terrible in an offensive role. Hence, I try to fight defensively. I think the Allies are going to be in a good position to wage an effective air war in India, where Steve has to fight, and in North America, where he doesn't have to but may try.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/27/2012 5:09:54 PM   
Canoerebel


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5/26/42

North America: Quiet.

Pacific: Uh oh, KB Division A is nosing around Pearl Harbor. I have two damaged BBs there that are sitting ducks.

Indian Ocean: KB Division B remains in the Bay of Bengal.

India: The Allies will deliberate attack at Asanol tomorrow. Looks like 1,200 AV vs. about 500 AV. If that doesn't turn out too well, the Allies will have an additional 500 AV day after tomorrow. Japanese air got the better of things today. The Allies first messed up a dozen Zeroes, but later came the Tojos, which ripped the P-39s and P-40s.

China: Still awaiting the next vector of attack for Japan. Steve's got a much better road system to get to Kewilin or Chengte, both of which are lighlty protected, so I'm holding my breath to see what happens.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/27/2012 8:05:46 PM   
Canoerebel


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5/27/42

Pacific: Air raid, Pearl Harbor! Vals and Kates equipped with bombs do slight damage to the two BBs in the yards, plus sink a couple of small fry. Steve is alerted that the base is unprotected, so he should return tomorrow with torps. I will lose these two BBs. The equation is much more complicated though. I stripped Pearl of fighters long ago to beef up the West Coast, where raids on industry would score many more points than those battlewagons represent. (One of the BBs was on the way to Balboa months ago, but kept springing leaks, so I sent her back to Pearl.)

Indian Ocean: KB Division B remains in the center of the Bay of Bengal.

India: The Allied attack at Asanol came off at 1:1, dropped forts to 2, and destroyed quite a few vehicles. I now have an additional 550 AV present, but I expect enemy reinforcements. On this turn, a bunch of AA and engineers showed up, so the infantry is probably on the way. We'll try another deliberate attack tomorrow. If the enemy reinforcements don't arrive, the 1770 AV vs. 500 AV should be sufficient.

China: No change.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/27/2012 8:09:28 PM   
witpqs


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Wow! 6 1/2 months into the war!

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/27/2012 8:19:10 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

Air raid, Pearl Harbor! Vals and Kates equipped with bombs do slight damage to the two BBs in the yards, plus sink a couple of small fry. Steve is alerted that the base is unprotected, so he should return tomorrow with torps. I will lose these two BBs. The equation is much more complicated though. I stripped Pearl of fighters long ago to beef up the West Coast,


What have you got in the way of offensive aircraft that can be moved quickly to Pearl? Even a B-17 strike, though it would not damage his ships, might chew up enough of his CAP that he would decide to seek calmer waters.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/27/2012 9:30:57 PM   
paullus99


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What a wasteful use of the KB - not knowing what you had there, it was still not really worth exposing his ships...especially since you have working torps on your subs.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/27/2012 10:07:20 PM   
Canoerebel


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I've had tabs on both KB divisions for four or five days now. That's really nice stuff for the Allies.

As for a PH raid this late in the game, I'd expect this kind of thing from certain very good and aggressive players. IE, it doesn't suprise me, though I wish I had cleared out at least one of those two BBs. (The other four damaged BBs are in the East Coast shipyard.)

Steve can get alot of points if he invades Pearl. He'll know now she isn't strongly garrisoned. But despite the points, I'd rather he go there than send 12 divisions to Australia. That's where I'd do my sweating.

Steve has done a good job, though I'm not sure he knows just how good. He forced me to commit my reserve forces, meaning I had to leave one or the other underprotected. I guessed India and left Oz to stand naked. Right now, I think I made the right choice.

Overall, though, I still think Q-Ball pressed harder and played a stronger game. There's still time for Steve to prove me wrong, especially if he gets me on my heals in Oz. But Q-Ball is very, very good.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/28/2012 9:08:40 AM   
castor troy


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12 Divisions? Where do you think he could take them from? This sounds like Hitler in April 45 when he was talking about divisions that didn't even exist.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/28/2012 9:59:45 AM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The air war is fascinating in the game. Overall, I've found that the Allied airforce does very well in defensive roles - including P-39s. I've likewise found that the Allies do terrible in an offensive role. Hence, I try to fight defensively. I think the Allies are going to be in a good position to wage an effective air war in India, where Steve has to fight, and in North America, where he doesn't have to but may try.


My experience is slightly different. My P39s did okay against most airframes as long as I had numerical superiority and good pilots. But the very same squadrons that took on the KB with good results (actually close to 1-1) were just destroyed by the same number of Tojos. I think I lost 50 or so aircraft in a single sweep against 1 or 2 losses for the Jap. This was the only time I let P39 come close to Tojos so it might just have been an extremely poor roll of the die though.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/28/2012 10:52:36 AM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The air war is fascinating in the game. Overall, I've found that the Allied airforce does very well in defensive roles - including P-39s. I've likewise found that the Allies do terrible in an offensive role. Hence, I try to fight defensively. I think the Allies are going to be in a good position to wage an effective air war in India, where Steve has to fight, and in North America, where he doesn't have to but may try.


My experience is slightly different. My P39s did okay against most airframes as long as I had numerical superiority and good pilots. But the very same squadrons that took on the KB with good results (actually close to 1-1) were just destroyed by the same number of Tojos. I think I lost 50 or so aircraft in a single sweep against 1 or 2 losses for the Jap. This was the only time I let P39 come close to Tojos so it might just have been an extremely poor roll of the die though.


Well, with numerical superiority, even the Wildcats will do their job on sweep. Problems arrive when it comes to attrition. The allied planes pools can get dry very fast, while the japs can keep on replacing their a/c without much problems.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/28/2012 2:29:37 PM   
Q-Ball


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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

12 Divisions? Where do you think he could take them from? This sounds like Hitler in April 45 when he was talking about divisions that didn't even exist.


They are playing Scenario 2; IJA gets alot more divisions in Scenario 2 in the first few months. All those Guards Infantry Divisions, the Guard Tank Div, and lots of other smaller units. I think it's realistic, but a little late in other respects if he's going to start something new.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/28/2012 3:14:49 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

12 Divisions? Where do you think he could take them from? This sounds like Hitler in April 45 when he was talking about divisions that didn't even exist.


They are playing Scenario 2; IJA gets alot more divisions in Scenario 2 in the first few months. All those Guards Infantry Divisions, the Guard Tank Div, and lots of other smaller units. I think it's realistic, but a little late in other respects if he's going to start something new.



I have played scen 2 and while there is more stuff around, it doesn't make the Japanese a Red Army. One could be afraid of 12 divisions if there would not have been that invasion in the North and the invasion of India (and even then, transporting 12 divisions plus support is quite a task). I have faced an all out invasion of Southern Australia just before the Japanese ran out of their amphib bonus and I trashed it, this was when the IJ player vanished without giving a reason at all (well, the reason was obvious ). This was a scen 2 PBEM and my opponent didn't go for India or anything else but the SRA first so that was surely more than PjH could even think about bringing to Australia or where ever else.

Much of the threat and fear of the Japanese post the first four or five months is more coming from the Allied players' minds than from what the Japanese actually got on hand IMO and - please noone take this as offense - this AAR is a good example for it. I know scen 2, I have played PjH back in the WITP days and I can sure tell you, the first thing I would do is to sink one of his CV TFs and everyone can do the same. Go combine your carriers, show up next to one of those 250 ac CV TFs and boom. Pretty much ends any IJ big style invasion dreams instantly. Nothing worse than splitting KB while thinking one could wreck havoc all around the place just to find out KB gets sunk in two independent attacks on those 1/2 KB task forces.

In the example of Canoerebel, I would have never ever split my carriers at all as this just gives the Japanese the chance to what they have actually done which now seems to cause all that panic (still it seems). By June 42 KB has lost much of it's starting magic and with a little LBA it most often turns out to become a massacre, just one example is my ongoing game vs Cuttlefish when he has lost 4 carriers plus 4 BB against my carriers and some LBA for no loss (not even a single hit) on my ships. And Cuttlefish wasn't operating as small carrier TFs as PjH is doing it and this could be punished easily as a combined USN/RN carrier force is superior to the TF that just bombed PH again.

Split your IJ carriers and give the Allied player the chance to sink your Nippon carriers. Of course, if the Allied player also splits his carriers, then thinking about taking on the IJ carriers is mood because 1:1 the IJN still rules while 2 or 3 USN carriers can't even stand Japanese LBA and so you again end up in a situation where the Japanese wreck havoc and spread panic within the Allied high command when having one single powerful carrier task force is all the Allied need to really hurt the Japanese and pretty much all you have to do is hurt them once, which of course can also lead to the well known PBEM vanishing syndrome of your opponent.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 9/28/2012 3:19:50 PM >


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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/28/2012 4:12:11 PM   
Canoerebel


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Steve won't invade Pearl Harbor at this late date. I also don't think he'll bring 10 to 12 divisions to Oz, but he could if he wanted to. He has roughly six committed to India. He doesn't need any in NoPac. So, if he pulls what he has available and takes a few others from China, he could come for Oz with that many. It would take more than one lift, but that would be fine for a long campaign for Oz.

As for splitting carriers, that's a silly comment. There are times to combine them and times to split them. Either way has advantages and disadvantages, but to say "never spit them" is ridiculous.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/28/2012 4:16:35 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

Split your IJ carriers and give the Allied player the chance to sink your Nippon carriers. Of course, if the Allied player also splits his carriers, then thinking about taking on the IJ carriers is mood because 1:1 the IJN still rules while 2 or 3 USN carriers ...


I agree with your post. I do think there is a special situation where the KB splits, the KB is roaming outside of Mavis range but within Allied Land based patrols, and advanced weather is on. Here I think the Allies have a huge opportunity for first strike. I am a newbie but I am 3 for 3 understanding this operational quirk. (In my AAR the Baker Island strike, and in a new game a USN strike off Midway vs. CVL's, and off Baker Island again 3 USN CV's vs 4 CV's/2CVL's ..again all three of these actions were in questionable weather no IJ land based patrols.

It seems to me that advanced weather makes it much more highly likely that float based patrols will not fly but the land based patrols are not adversely effected. Almost every turn my float planes are cancelled due to weather and the IJ are suffering the same environmental conditions. IN my opinion, this puts the USN Cat's in a unique position of detecting seaborne threats and the IJ much less likely to detect USN threats outside of Mavis range.

Geofflambert in his AAR also has a nice drubbing of a split KB.




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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/28/2012 4:19:41 PM   
Q-Ball


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I agree with Dan, I don't think "Never split carriers" is a hard-fast rule. I would agree with don't ever split them, then sail into an area that ALL his carriers might be; that's a big mistake.

I played PjH briefly, and though he gave me fits in some ways, he was very careless with his CVs. The game ended because PjH didn't care much for the DDB mod, but I think also because every Allied CV in the Pacific was sunk by the end of Jan '42, because of commitments into trouble involving 1 or 2 CVs. You can bet that if I'm chasing 1 Allied CV, I will split KB in pieces, to increase my chances of intercept....which I did in that one.

Anyhow, I forgot about the India commitment. Unless he's blowing-off China and moving units out of it, he can't get 12 divisions going somewhere. It's way late to try a major invasion like Australia, so I would relax there.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/28/2012 6:28:08 PM   
Canoerebel


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5/27/42

Pearl Harbor: KB hung around and sent her bomb-loaded strike aircraft against the port, sinking BB Tennessee and further damaging Oklahoma, which is toast now.

Pacific: Allied reinforcement convoys have reached Nadi and Luganville - small units, the vanguard of bigger reinforcement convoys en route. An IJ sub got a whiff of CLAA Atlanta at Nadi. There is always the nice possibility that Steve will conclude that "the game draweth late," so that he won't end up moving on any of these big-point bases in SoPac.

India: KB Division B was employed to launch a big air raid against the Allied army at Asanol. Profligate use of troops, I say! Steve lost a bunch of Kates to ops - something like 12. The Allied attack came off at 1:1 and dropped forts to 1. I'd attack again, but disruption is too high. So my guys will rest for a day or two. The war isn't going to be won or lost over this base at this point in the game. My main objective is to attack smaller enemy units when I can and, when not, to try to draw Steve's attention here. We're almost late enough now that I can stand down my hypersensitivity about certain areas.

China: No changes here.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/28/2012 7:22:41 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

5/27/42

Pearl Harbor: KB hung around and sent her bomb-loaded strike aircraft against the port, sinking BB Tennessee and further damaging Oklahoma, which is toast now.



Do you mean multi-year damaged, or going-to-sink damaged?

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/28/2012 7:43:22 PM   
Miller


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The first rule of AE for the Jap player should be never, ever, split up the KB. Before July 42 you cannot adjust the airgroup numbers on the KB (Why?)......so even with all six CVs operating together you only have 108 Zeros (18x6) to play with. Maybe enough to deal with 2 or 3 Us CVs, but against that and LBA........asking for trouble. In fact as soon as possible I add the mini KB to the main KB for the extra fighter support (I boost the fighter sqd on Ryujo to 36 and use the CVEs solely as fighter carriers). Of course the trade off is you can only have them in one area at a time....but I'd rather that than risk losing them in multiple operations at the same time.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/28/2012 8:16:55 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

5/27/42

Pearl Harbor: KB hung around and sent her bomb-loaded strike aircraft against the port, sinking BB Tennessee and further damaging Oklahoma, which is toast now.



Do you mean multi-year damaged, or going-to-sink damaged?

Maybe "toast" refers to fire levels in the 90s. Everyone cooks when things get that hot!

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/28/2012 9:03:52 PM   
Q-Ball


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

The first rule of AE for the Jap player should be never, ever, split up the KB.


For the most part I agree, but...........the first 2 months, you can split KB. That's because the Allies start with 3 CVs in the Pacific, and not enough Wildcats to go around. You can take on 3 CVs with that, especially if they are still using the F2A.

But yes, once Yorktown and friends start to show, better safe than sorry

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/28/2012 11:22:05 PM   
Canoerebel


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There's a big air show at Russell Field in Rome, Georgia, this weekend. I had F-18A Hornet's flying low over my office early this afternoon, scaring me to death. So, I dropped everything and went to the airfield. I just want to mention how cool the WWII aircraft are, and a couple of impressions.

First, the F4U Corsair has to be the loveliest plane every. Gorgeous.

Second, I was surprised at the relative sizes of the B-25 and B-17 compared to the SBD-5. The bigger bombers really aren't all that big. Also, the Wildcat is not the most beautiful fighter aircraft, though I'm sure we all hold it with a degree of well-deserved admiration.

At one point, the Corsair and an F-18 were flying in tandem. Just magnficent.

Final point: if Steve and I go far enough into this game, one of these days I'm gonna have all those cool late-war models. Can't wait!

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/28/2012 11:32:29 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

The first rule of AE for the Jap player should be never, ever, split up the KB.


For the most part I agree, but...........the first 2 months, you can split KB. That's because the Allies start with 3 CVs in the Pacific, and not enough Wildcats to go around. You can take on 3 CVs with that, especially if they are still using the F2A.

But yes, once Yorktown and friends start to show, better safe than sorry


I am going to offer this argument for at least not showing the whole KB and using measured force to accompish goals. Comitting the whole KB to say striking Colombo offers the Allies a free shot to occupy the Gilberts. The IJ empire is one huge bowl of jello and upsetting things on one side results in shaking on the other sides. The more comittment to an exterme results in more shaking ....

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(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 1259
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/29/2012 12:08:33 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 9773
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
5/29/42 and 5/30/42

This report covers just one day, but about a week ago I got off sync with my turn numbering and missed giving one report.

NoPac: Big enemy air raid vs. Victoria draws bleed-over CAP from Vancouver, Seattle and Tacoma. The Japanese got the better of things, but not in a big way.

CenPac: KB Division B hammers Pearl for the fourth straight day. BB Oklahoma was at 99 SYS yesterday. I couldn't even bring myself to look today, but she's still afloat. Don't know if Steve will try again tomorrow. He's probably a bit worried about mission sorties on the possibility I might commit my carriers (they are down near Pago Pago, but he doesn't know that).

India: KB Division A launches another massed attack against the Allied troops at Asanol. Those raids, combined with massed LBA (hundreds of bombers) disrupt a few of my units, but my guys will try a deliberate attack tomorrow.

China: No major developments.

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 1260
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