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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

 
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/30/2012 5:42:27 PM   
Canoerebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lipty

This is my first AAR report read (I finished PH's side last night) and have learned alot about strategies in the game. It has been interesting seeing what you take away from things that I completely ignored because I wasn't sure what it was for or thought it was just game fluff.

Thanks for reading, Lipty.
You commented that you were in a hurry once and didn't watch a single combat animation and that that was near blasphemous. I watched one the first time and assumed that it was just something to entertain me the first time time you do battle like the opening movie when I installed the game. What are you taking away from it? I assumed it was all shown on the combat report when I review it when the turn is done. Are there particular settings I should be using to get the most out of it ( I also had all times set to zero to speed up the play)?

Many little but significant things can show up during the combat replay that aren't reported on the actual combat report - coastwatcher sightings, sightings of enemy TFs, detailed information about particular combat [such as the example BBFanboy pointed out with his Shokaku example, etc.] In a close match against a tough opponent, I would always watch the combat replay and pick up a zillion things doing so. Perhaps in 1944 as the Allies, you can sometimes reach the point where it isn't absolutly critical to watch the replay, but even then it would be risky.
I started a scene one game as allied a few weeks ago (I abandoned the Japanese one I started because I was so overwhelmed by the complexity of the production system).

Hit a couple of stumbling points such as trying to get MacArthur to board a submarine to get him off the rock. I even tried at gunpoint and that SOB would not get in it. I had also immediately fallen back to Manila and Bataan when the Phillipines were invaded as I assumed those were the places to defend but in your AAR you staunchly defended Clark (do to terrain defenses if I remember correctly).

Just replace him as a commander if you wish to do so (though the resulting PP cost is high, so it might not be worth doing so).
My carriers are all being repaired in Capetown (except Sara that got torped 5 hexes from Johnson and went down like Titanic with all hands and planes on board). I was very aggressive going after every merchant I could find contrary to your strategy that has hardly had to replenish in 3 months.

Since your conterpart is AWOL and I am already kind of hi-jacking your thread... does it matter when I am re-assigning troops what group I associate them with or can I just safely pick pacific fleet for all?

Usually it's impossible to align units with headquarters - PPs are too precious. Generally, I just try to get them assigned to a theater HQ that makes the most sense and gives the best chance of linking up. Thus, American troops bound for the Pacific generally get a Pacific HQ attachment.

I have greatly enjoyed the AAR so far and have learned an immense amount (the acronym's still have me scratching my head at times but usually if I keep reading someone will through out enough info to figure what they mean) about strat but I am still struggling with the details of gameplay, but I guess trial by fire (albeit with AI rather than a thinking person).

Thanks for the work putting up this AAR.


(in reply to Lipty)
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/30/2012 6:08:47 PM   
Lipty

 

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Thanks for the response BB.
I did the 1000 miles war scenario from both sides and Guadalcanal from the japanese side before I tried the full scenario again. Enjoyed the Guadalcanal as the first computer game I ever played was TF1942, which was just about 20 years ago.
I will add the replay to the sequence. The time between turns used to be the time to get up and do something... now I will have to adjust.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/30/2012 6:09:48 PM   
Encircled


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Maybe PJH has put the request out for two day turns as he thinks you might be up to something, and if you say "No", it might confirm it for him.

As a reader of your AAR's, you do tend to take the offensive as early as possible, and maybe he suspects something is coming, and used a fairly devious way of getting confirmation?

Or am I thinking a bit too far outside the box?

(in reply to Canoerebel)
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/30/2012 6:49:17 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Maybe PJH has put the request out for two day turns as he thinks you might be up to something, and if you say "No", it might confirm it for him.

As a reader of your AAR's, you do tend to take the offensive as early as possible, and maybe he suspects something is coming, and used a fairly devious way of getting confirmation?

Or am I thinking a bit too far outside the box?

Or perhaps he has realized his scattergun strategy has reached the limits of possible achievements and he really doesn't know what to do next other than dig in. He will certainly see that CR has not panicked [sp?] and has met each attack with a balanced response. Worst of all for Japan, he has not been able to force the kind of carrier confrontation that would enable him to carry on without fear for six - ten more months. A player can lose a lot of interest when the writing is on the wall.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/30/2012 6:49:25 PM   
Andav

 

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Why would you ever tell your oppoent, "Ok ... I am going on the defense now. Go ahead and just do what you want." It is only May of 42 for cry'n out loud!!!

To me it sounds like someone with a lot going on in real life and feels the stress of an obligation to a PBEM opponent. I know I have gotten there before but communicating with your partner really does a lot to releive that stress.

Wa


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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/30/2012 7:46:52 PM   
hkbhsi

 

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I don't think it is possible to change to 2 day turns in game.
Apart from that, I find that his request really shows poor taste; even if it's true that he is going to the defensive and turns would be slow, by accepting you would immediately let him know when you are ready to attack by asking to go back to 1 day turns.
Just my 2 cents.

< Message edited by hkbhsi -- 8/30/2012 7:47:47 PM >

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/30/2012 7:54:52 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hkbhsi

I don't think it is possible to change to 2 day turns in game.


There was a recent thread in the general that is possible now to change in a PBEM game. I believe it formerly was not possible, but the last official patch altered this. Anyway, it should be possible to do, but the sequence has to be done exactly correctly, and I believe the thread stated that the Japanese player has to initiate it.


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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/30/2012 7:59:22 PM   
hkbhsi

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: hkbhsi

I don't think it is possible to change to 2 day turns in game.


There was a recent thread in the general that is possible now to change in a PBEM game. I believe it formerly was not possible, but the last official patch altered this. Anyway, it should be possible to do, but the sequence has to be done exactly correctly, and I believe the thread stated that the Japanese player has to initiate it.



Good to know about that, thank you.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/30/2012 8:05:07 PM   
CaptDave

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hkbhsi
Apart from that, I find that his request really shows poor taste; even if it's true that he is going to the defensive and turns would be slow, by accepting you would immediately let him know when you are ready to attack by asking to go back to 1 day turns.
Just my 2 cents.


I haven't read PH's AAR today, so don't know his thinking, and thus feel I can safely comment on this particular issue. I will say simply that hkbhsi's thought here was exactly the same as mine; this is akin to asking you to give 48-hour notice of an impending offensive. That kind of thing went out a couple centuries ago!

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/30/2012 8:10:14 PM   
crsutton


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CR,

Would you review your losses in India? Has he destroyed any major Indian or Australian units?

Or British?

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/30/2012 9:41:52 PM   
Canoerebel


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The Allied armed forces in India are essentially in pristine condition. Steve managed to rough up a couple of infantry units, and most of the Burma Army is isolated on the frontier (I want them there to serve in a guerilla-warfare capacity), but other than that things look very good. There are at least two full-strength UK divisions in India, one full-strength Oz division, two Marine regiments, two US Army regiments, and two thirds of 27th USA Division. The RAF is in decent condition and there are a pretty good number of American fighter and 4EB units present. Bottom Line: the Allies can go on the offensive as soon as I feel confident there isn't a realistic threat that Japan could come en masse (ten divisions) on the west coast. That possibility is rapidly diminishing but it isn't low enough for me to declare an "all clear" yet.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/30/2012 10:01:18 PM   
Canoerebel


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The game is actually at a pretty delicate tipping point. Neither side has lost any assets to speak of to date, so both sides are very potent. Steve has pushed hard in nearly all areas - pushed right up to the where I had drawn my various "lines in the sand." If he stops here he hasn't accomplished anything close to lethal with the possible exception of China. If he is just pausing before the next big push, he could do some pretty devastating things - at least in Australia. (I think India and North America are pretty safe now.)

Steve made a huge mistake, IMO, in not taking Coal Harbor (and probably Prince Rupert) in North America. He gobbled up a bunch of freebies and got close enough to cause some problems for me, but the menace would have been compounded 10x had he taken those bases. Overall, Steve has done a good job in NoPac, but didn't push far enough to make it strategically meaningful.

In the Pacific, Steve has "laid back" everywhere. IMO, this is sensible, because he can better use the time and assets elsehwere and has done so. Really, who in the world cares about Ndeni, Baker Island, etc? They are only signficant to those who insist on replicating the actual war. In AE, they are of minor value and are actually impediments if you concentrate on them to the detriment of the real theaters of action.

In Oz, Steve has taken Darwin to Exmouth. The SW (Perth) and NE (Townsville) sectors are wide open. I'm really hoping he won't act there, because if he established good airbases to engage in strat bombing of my major industrial centers it might prove calamitous from a Victory Point standpoint.

In India, Steve did a good job in blitzkrieging the Calcutta area. However, that doesn't really mean much long term. Not only that, the Allies already have a rather massive army in place that will continue to grow in the short and medium terms. I think the Allies can really make headway here if Steve isn't careful.

China is the real trouble spot. I think I'm pretty decent in China and I was confident in my ability to manage this campaign even against an experienced and aggressive opponent. I've done pretty well, but two setbacks really hurt - letting Steve get hold of a wooded-rough hex that opened up the Sian plans, and trying my little failed offensive near Changsha that roughed up my army quite badly. My MLR is still intact, but it's shrinking. Right now, I'm concerned about China's long-term prognosis, but there is a chance the Allies will be able to go on the offensive in India to restore communications (and supply) before the Chinese are basically liquidated.

Steve might get alot of kudos for pushing so far in the game so far, but I actually don't think he's done very much. The Allies intentionally traded real estate for time, making the Japanese advances look sexier than they probably deserve. At this point the Allies are in excellent shape unless Steve pushes harder and farther. He might, but he's really talking like that's not going to happen.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/30/2012 10:22:17 PM   
AcePylut


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You can change to 2 day turns and back to 1 day turns in the middle of the match.

PH and I did this in our game. Lemme see if I can find the pm from JWE telling us how to do it. We were his test bunnies.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/30/2012 11:15:36 PM   
Lcp Purcell

 

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ohhh I want to comment but I am reading both sides.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/31/2012 1:38:08 AM   
AcePylut


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TO change the numbers of days per turn,

"try
-cd

on the command line ...this feature is still in testing ... but u can help us test it if you like ...I think it only works for the Japanese player"


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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/31/2012 2:35:18 AM   
princep01

 

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Man you have got a very acute case of Socatraitis.  Is it the center of the universe for you?  Yes, it is nice to hold it, but he's really going to have to stick his you know what wayyyyyy out there to grab that edge of the map and way behind India place.  Why the obsessing over it?

I'd be a lot more worried about a lot more places than that.  You already traded a lot of turf (and land objective points) to maintain your various armies/navies, but there isn't a lot more to give.  I do hope that once he steps across one of the "lines in the sand" that you'll jump on him like a hound on a June bug and send him scurrying back across the line a bloodied and chastened LYB.

Hood 

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/31/2012 5:17:02 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01

Man you have got a very acute case of Socatraitis.  Is it the center of the universe for you?  Yes, it is nice to hold it, but he's really going to have to stick his you know what wayyyyyy out there to grab that edge of the map and way behind India place.  Why the obsessing over it?

I'd be a lot more worried about a lot more places than that.  You already traded a lot of turf (and land objective points) to maintain your various armies/navies, but there isn't a lot more to give.  I do hope that once he steps across one of the "lines in the sand" that you'll jump on him like a hound on a June bug and send him scurrying back across the line a bloodied and chastened LYB.

Hood 

After seeing how Rader [vs Greyjoy]was able to nearly isolate India from reinforcement by parking KB near Socotra and also taking Diego Garcia, and seeing PzJH make bold moves across the map, I think Canoerebel has reason to be concerned/suspicious. CR cannot get enough carriers to the Socotra area for weeks and by that time the Japanese could bring in a massive amphib landing and drop it close to Karachi. With no further British/US/Commonwealth troops reaching the area, India could be totally conquered. Loss of the Indian divisions would slow the Allied comeback by 9-12 months in my guesstimation. CR has lots of good stuff coming soon so he is being careful not to lose the war while building up the means to go on safari.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/31/2012 5:25:33 AM   
Canoerebel


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Socatra is the single most important hex on the map. At least in a Scenario Two match using a regulation map and playing the game the way I play it.

Socatra is the key to India. (Yes, it would be possible to take India without it, but oh so much more difficult and messy.)

There is no other single hex or base that is a key to another major strategic center, though I could make some nominations in China and possibly one for North America.

It is highly unlikely Steve would come for Socatra now, but it isn't impossible. I can't afford to lose it now, that's for sure.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/31/2012 7:26:17 AM   
JeffK


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I think it is only vital when viewed from your style of play.

Few other AAR place such importance.

IFF this was the area of PJH interest he would only need to mask Socotra, not neccesarily invade.

Look at what is actually happening, not how you would play the other side.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/31/2012 7:47:54 AM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Socatra is the single most important hex on the map. At least in a Scenario Two match using a regulation map and playing the game the way I play it.

Socatra is the key to India. (Yes, it would be possible to take India without it, but oh so much more difficult and messy.)

There is no other single hex or base that is a key to another major strategic center, though I could make some nominations in China and possibly one for North America.

It is highly unlikely Steve would come for Socatra now, but it isn't impossible. I can't afford to lose it now, that's for sure.




like Jeff says, Socotra is only the most important hex on the map for YOU. If I would go for India, I wouldn't care at all about that place, just like many others you tend to heavily garisson.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/31/2012 2:43:21 PM   
Lomri

 

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This comment is predicated on the idea that your opponent is switching to a defensive stance (which is suspect because he suggested it to you ;).

I've read a lots of AARs over the years and it seems to me that it is very common for the Japanese player to find an allied advance through Burma really hard to defend AND sort of "boring". Most folks are drawn to this game for the naval aspects after all. Instead Burma tends to be a slow slog with lots of ground bombing (Zzzzzz).

So it made me think that if my goal as Japan wasn't for autovictory but instead to set up a stronger than historical defensive stance at the end of expansion then maybe for entertainment value you should avoid threatening India TOO much. Maybe go somewhere else like OZ even if it isn't as good a strategy. If your goal is for a fun defense (and I'm stipulating that a Burma defense isn't fun for my argument) then you probably don't want to scare the Allies into sending so many divisions to India. It just temps them to USE them there. Look at CR for instance who has a bunch of fresh units ready to go in India already. (Of course the second he shock attacks Calcutta they won't be fresh anymore ;)

Sorry for the OT, just thinking out loud.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/31/2012 3:04:49 PM   
Canoerebel


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Thanks for the thoughts, gents.

Note that I did specifically say that Socatra is "the most important hex" in my games because of the way I play. If he cut off India from Capetown and then invaded en masse at Goa or Surat, I'd be in very bad trouble. The threat of auto victory would be real.

And he could do it. By placing the KB between Tivandrum and Socatra and then bringing in the seven divisions recently at Singapore (plus several more that he has available), he would seize control of the entire theater. Wtih such a large Allied army already in India, that would be big trouble. My own carriers are upgrading at Bombay for the next 20 to 25 days, so right now I am very vulnerable.

This threat won't exist much longer. The Allies are rapidly growing stronger. Soon the Allies will begin to move the Soctra force (450 AV) forward to establish more powerful postions in Ceylon and Diego Garcia.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/31/2012 3:47:06 PM   
Canoerebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lomri
I've read a lots of AARs over the years and it seems to me that it is very common for the Japanese player to find an allied advance through Burma really hard to defend AND sort of "boring"....


There is a danger in the game of the Japanese player overdosing on adrenaline. Then, when the adrenaline wains, the IJ player may lose interest in the game.

I certainly felt that was the case in my game with Q-Ball. I played such a loose defense, never giving him battle, that when the tide finally turned in autumn '42 and the game focused on a ground war in India, his interest wained quite obviously (though WitE had something to do with it too).

The same might happen in this game, though we are still much too early for Steve to lose interest. Also, the Allies have a more advanced defense and will counterattack sooner.

It's just a matter of Steve giving me a chance before he zones out.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/31/2012 4:31:26 PM   
Miller


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I think a lot of Jap players have trouble coming to terms with the fact their advance has reached its limits......then it becomes a case of logistics and setting up defences for the Allied comeback which can be rather tedious. Then come late 43/early 44 if the Allies win the decisive CV battle.........quitsville for many.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/31/2012 4:40:00 PM   
Canoerebel


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Just in case there are any Allied players out there who have never gotten deep into a game because their opponent disappeared, you can do no better than Miller. He never gives in and he flips turns like crazy except when there's an important soccer match going.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/31/2012 4:47:44 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

I think a lot of Jap players have trouble coming to terms with the fact their advance has reached its limits......then it becomes a case of logistics and setting up defences for the Allied comeback which can be rather tedious. Then come late 43/early 44 if the Allies win the decisive CV battle.........quitsville for many.


So sad. Not really fair to play the good years and never give your opponent a chance to realize their plans.

_____________________________


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/1/2012 3:08:04 PM   
Miller


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Just in case there are any Allied players out there who have never gotten deep into a game because their opponent disappeared, you can do no better than Miller. He never gives in and he flips turns like crazy except when there's an important soccer match going.


Thanks for bigging me up but I have just agreed to a new game (scn 1- gulp). My other game against the sneaky Penguin is now in Nov 44......he has invaded the mainland!

(in reply to Canoerebel)
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/4/2012 1:39:00 PM   
Canoerebel


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Notice it's November 1944 and Miller, the IJA player in that game, continues to soldier on. That's Paul for you. He plays the same game - the same number of turns, the same enthusiasm, the same determiantion - whether it's January 1942 or December 1944. There's just no quit in the guy. Oh, I'm sure he gets frustrated when Japan has seven destroyers and a patrol boat left to fight and that force ends up getting thrashed by an S-boat, but he still doesn't quit.

Now, a word about my current opponent. I would prefer not to be blunt, but this is necessary for those who might consider playing him in the future.

PzH says he has some family issues to deal with. I've also heard from two of his recent opponents, both of whom experienced him walking away from games early - first becoming eratic in turns, then disappearing, then jumping on offers from his opponents to cancel the games. Neither of these players, who are well known with good reputations, think my game with PzH is going much further.

This is crazy, because it's early May 1942. Japan is at the zenith of its power. But Steve has faded and is close to disappearing. Were it a family issue, he would remain in contact and give notice of his availability or unavailability. Instead, he doesn't stay in contact, makes promises, and doesn't keep them.

I'm not going to say anything to him quite yet. I'll wait to see if he returns or at least communicates. If things continue as is for another week or so, I'll approach him about his intentions.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/4/2012 1:46:42 PM   
princep01

 

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From: Texas
Status: offline
Thanks for that info, CR.  This is another potential opponent I just added to my Don't Play list.  After your experience with Q-Ball, I'd have thought you would make future opponents take a blood oath to finish the game short of zombie attack, death or other massive calamities.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 1139
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 9/4/2012 1:51:57 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 9796
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
Part of the problem may be my style of play. Against both Q-Ball and PzH, both very experienced and aggressive players, I employed a very soft defense, trading real estate for time. I just wanted to make sure I lived to fight another day. But, unfortunately, playing so softly may incite an equal and oppositve level of boredom in a Japanese player. (But in May 1942????)

It's still possible this game will get back on track, so let's just leave it at this and wait a bit to see what comes of this. Perhaps I'm being too pessimistic.


(in reply to princep01)
Post #: 1140
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