War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

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Canoerebel
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War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

Post by Canoerebel »

Panzerjagger Hortlund and I are preparing to square off in a match. The ground rules proposed by PH:

Scenario 2
Turn cycle - 1
FOW - on
Adv weather - on
Allied damage control - on
Player defined upgrades - on
Historical first turn - off
Dec 7th surprise - on
Reliable USN torpedos - off
Realistic R&D - off
No unit withdrawals - off
Reinforcements - extremely variable +/- 60

I countered with this suggestion: "Here's an observation on my part, which may or may not be valid.

"I've played three Scenario Two PBEM matches - vs. Miller, vs. Q-Ball, and vs. Chezdajez. The former two were with PDU on and the latter with PDU off. It seems to me that PDU on gives Japan a huge bonus in airpower, while PDU off really hurts Japan. There's no good middle ground, so I think it makes for a better game to play with PDU on (as you suggest).

"Since Japan gets a pretty killer airforce with PDU on, would you consider playing with realistic Allied torps OFF? This would give the Allies a bit of a bump in sub operations, though I don't think it's a huge deal. If you like that idea, start the game with those settings. If you don't like the idea, go ahead and start with the settings you proposed. I leave it to you and I am fine either way."

PH agreed to my suggestion without further discussion. He is working on the first turn now. The game should begin in a day or two.

My thoughts about my opponent and the match to follow later tonight or tomorrow or whenever I feel like it.

About the title: This is a nod to the importance that logistics plays in AE, as many of you will have already deduced. I almost chose "Tales of the Tin Bucket Brigade," but that seemed a bit clunky. Then, "Pac Man Gobbles Dot Hexes" occurred, but that seemed inane. Then a couple of others crossed my mind, but those didn't seem to fit either.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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Dan Nichols
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

Post by Dan Nichols »

Realistic R&D off? Look for IJA jet fighters in 1943.
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

Post by crsutton »

The sub option is not a bad deal. You will have a lot more fun with them for two years. But when the super Es come on board your party will end regardless. I think it a good trade and will not unbalance the game. Go for the oil, it is still the best way to control Japanese production. Good luck, I will be following and adding my sage advice as always..[;)]
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

Post by ny59giants »

When you responded to PH about playing him, I asked if he would consider playing with the modified Pwhex files found on DaBabes website to incorporated stacking limits. Are you going to try using them?? They add more realism, IMO.
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

Post by Cribtop »

Dan,

Congrats! PJH is a great opponent who will push you to the wall. Good luck!

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

Post by Canoerebel »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
When you responded to PH about playing him, I asked if he would consider playing with the modified Pwhex files found on DaBabes website to incorporated stacking limits. Are you going to try using them?? They add more realism, IMO.

Mike, can you say that again in English?

(Computers are mysterious magic to me - I sweat hours over trying to get an upgrade downloaded and installed and running; the thought of doing anything else gives me the vapors.)
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

Post by Canoerebel »

Here's what little I know about my opponent:  He's been around a long time, he's a good player, and he matriculated at the Nemo School of Advanced Mental Games (or maybe it's his school and Nemo was the student).  Here's two examples of his approach:[/align] [/align] [/align]From His Opponent's Wanted Advertisement:  "There are two things I have never done in an AE game (yet). Invade Pearl Harbor/West Coast and invade Russia. Im not saying that will happen in this game either, but there is a window of opportunity between Feb/March 42 (when most of the NEI is taken) and the end of the amphib bonus in April...Im just saying."[/align] [/align]From an Email to Me:  "Im starting on my setup as we speak. Should be interesting to see what reliable torpedos means for the early game. Usually as Japs, the first years are not really something to worry about with regards to the USN submarines. Im thinking that I'll have to detatch several level bomber units for ASW-duty from day 1. [/align] [/align]"Someone suggested that I'd attack the soviets in this game. That might make for an interesting game, but Im not sure. On the other hand, everyone has tried India at least once, and Australia is not really unusual either. We'll see where we end up in six months."[/align] [/align]I don't mind mind games (I think), though I do get rather irritable when the pressure is on and I'm facing imminent destruction.  I first became aware of this flaw in my personality when I tried to install new blinds in my house and my wife, after about six hours, asked me what was taking so long and did I want to call her father for some advice on how to do the job.[/align] [/align]What little I know about PH comes second hand from Nemo, who told me months ago that PH was a good player and "a prince of a guy." (I think I'm quoting Nemo correctly.)[/align] [/align]The other thing I know is that I have admired PH's avatar for years now.  You know, Natalie Portman certainly is a pretty young woman.[/align]
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

Post by desicat »

Save Wake Island! (at least initially)
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

Post by Historiker »

A simple rule: "Ignore everything he says and only take care of what he does" [:)]
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

Post by Historiker »

There's an AAR by PJH about Downfall. He shows very good how detailed he thinks and how he plays the mind game.
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

Post by zuluhour »

Good luck Dan, I look forward to seeing your command of the Allies from the onset again. I also hope you experience the kind of pressure from Imperial Japan to induce a solid nail biter of an AAR. I like to war game for many reasons and I never considered a PBEM could come close to FTF board gaming when it comes to anxiety, pressure, and emotion. I was wrong. I drove to one of my appointments in DC (about an hour away, two that day) and thought so long and hard on the current turn, I drove 20 minutes past their office. As the calculating southern gentleman general I believe you to be, I look forward to a little "feather ruffling". Cool under fire if you will. As I am not qualified to comment on strategy and tactics, I will be lurking to "beat the drums" for the allied cause.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

Post by JocMeister »

Will certainly follow this one! [:)]
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

Post by ny59giants »


ORIGINAL: ny59giants
When you responded to PH about playing him, I asked if he would consider playing with the modified Pwhex files found on DaBabes website to incorporated stacking limits. Are you going to try using them?? They add more realism, IMO.


Mike, can you say that again in English?

(Computers are mysterious magic to me - I sweat hours over trying to get an upgrade downloaded and installed and running; the thought of doing anything else gives me the vapors.)

Follow this link to get the three files needed.

https://sites.google.com/site/dababeswi ... limit-data

unzip into the main AE folder. So simple, even you can do it Dan. [;)]

When you look in the upper left hand corner of a stack of units, it shows the stacking limits of a particular hex. In one of the later Beta patches and now in the latest official patch, there are consequences for overstacking a hex. MichaelM added it to the code and then Andrew Brown and DaBabes team made the changes to the Pwhex to use the stacking limits across the board. You can do it mid-game as I have in my PBEM game in mid-43.

The benefit, IMO, is the elimination of "Death Stars" for both sides. You can still have huge stacks in clear terrain, but I was facing an Allied "Death Star" of 12 divisions, 9 armored units, and numerous support units in a jungle hex in Burma/India. Now, he has had to reduce it down to about 3 full divisions and some support units. Realistically, you cannot put that many troops in a jungle hex (you could, but would need bulldozers to level the field for combat [:D]). I had one outside of Changsha that had to be reduced as Japan.

Personally, I will not go back to playing a game without them. I like the realism it brings.
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

Post by Olorin »

Promising AAR between two good players. Subscribed! [&o]
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

Post by obvert »

Great to see you've got a good match. I think your subs will eat him alive early on though as the ASW for the IJN is pretty bad to start off, especially in deep water. You also know exactly where things have to come and go, so a few 10 sub blockades of choice destinations will screw up a lot he's trying to do.

The scenario 2 pdu on + realistic R n D off will be interesting to see. I'm guessing you'll see about 200 Franks a months in mid 43.

It'll be fun to watch!
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

Post by derp »

Perhaps more importantly, US surface ship (Mk. 15 - 60% dud rate) and aircraft (Mk. 13 - 50% dud rate) torpedoes will work too...
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

Post by Andav »


With the realistic Allied torpedoes OFF, a Dec 7th KB port strike on Manila now pretty much required. I would not want all of those subs heading out with torpedoes that worked. The Dutch subs are bad enough!

Looking forward to this game CR.

Wa
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

Post by DOCUP »

I agree with Andav.  Watch for port strike on Manila. 
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

Post by HansBolter »

While reliable torps will help counterbalance PDU on, non-historical first turn means he will devastate your sub force, significantly reducing your counterbalance and as pointed out unrealistic R&D will boost his air advantage. All in all looks like a bad deal to me.
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

Post by Canoerebel »

Thanks for the input and suggestions, gents.  A few comments in reply:
 
1.  I'm trying to find a happy medium in which an enhanced Japan can fight on more even terms more deeply into the games.  So if the R&D allows PH to produce better aircraft in 1943 and 1944, that's okay.  On the flip side, I was a little worried about 1942, when Japanese airpower under PDU On can be a killer and yet PDU Off seems to swing things the other way.  There doesn't seem to be a happy medium, so I'm hoping better Allied torps will even things out a bit. 
 
2.  I think this will be a tough game.  PH has the experience and level of aggression that should make 1942 a rip-roarer.
 
3.  While PH (and Nemo) enjoy the mind games, I don't.  I generally avoid commentary for that reason, because I don't like giving away intel, and because I strive to avoid comments that can seem boastful (even an innocent comment coming after a big victory can strike an opponent the wrong way).  So, my way of playing the mental aspect of the game is to ignore it.
 
4.  We have no house rules.  Were I playing Nemo, and were Nemo strident in the "no house rules" proclamation, the first thing I would do is empty out both Manila and Pearl Harbor.  But in many games that just won't sit right even in a "no holds bar" atmosphere.  So I won't do anything radical on the opening day of the war.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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