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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

 
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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/10/2012 3:30:13 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

I would posit that had the Japanese invaded Alaska, Juneau, the allies would throw everything they have at defending the west coast. I think any commander that was pushing his 4 CV's around a bunch of nameless atolls 10000 miles away in the South Pac, while the US nation was going paranoid over IJN WC invasion, would have been fired immediately and any politician would be tarred and feathered

Something to think about - if you're going to play it "semi-historically" then everything the US has should be going to Canada, Alaska, and the North Pac. I doubt "lookie me over here raidin' Truk with my 2 CV's while my fellow citizens in Juneau are under IJN rule" would fly very well with the US populace, all things considered.

You and PH are both pretty honorable folks - adding a "how would the home islands folks or the US populace react to *this*" sort of game-play component might be worth discussing with PH :)

After all, does it really matter? We know how the war is going to end - Japan's going to be a charred hulk of an island cuz you are going to use nukes, right? :)



The historical political perspective goes out the window with scenario #2 .. the orginal Europe first strategy is based on a relatively weak Japan .. Japan was read for a strategy of securing the DEI and a defense thus something to be dealt with, but Hitler had showed a propensity to conquor the world and was doing so ... Now Japan is a strong threat to the United States as such the forces in capable hands are demonstrating the ability to be as threating as that guy with the funny mustache...

As a side note . I think scenrario #2 should have a intermediary trigger of no withdrawls before the LOD reinforcements .. I am not sure if that line is juneau or sika but I think it should be there as a subsequent risk of bold moves .. India and Oz might well have lines that the stuff in theater is going to stay if certain lines are crossed. I think the game would be even more interesting of those lines were random within context... known to nobody ..thus Japan does not know the point where they become public enemy #1 and have to constantly think about that risk ...

Anyway back to the game ..


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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/10/2012 4:18:59 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

it doesn't, neither does naval bombardement.


Correct. Although one should pay careful attention to the "narrow strait" rules when considering bombardments in the NW portion of North America.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/10/2012 11:40:42 PM   
Cribtop


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Cool idea, Crackaces.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/11/2012 12:15:05 AM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

Cool idea, Crackaces.
+1
I really like the random factor. Combine that with something like the Russian intervention. cross a certain point, and there is a % chance of reinforcements being triggered. Good point on the Atlantic fleet too. Once the Continental US is threatened, the Atlantic fleet is in play

< Message edited by JohnDillworth -- 5/11/2012 12:18:17 AM >


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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/11/2012 3:24:47 PM   
Canoerebel


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1/5/42
 
NoPac:  Juneau finally falls and a major part of the KB is one hex NW of Coal Harbor, which has a defensive AV of 94.  Lots of enemy shipping scattered around the Gulf of Alaska.  It looks more and more like the main move is to set up a strategic bombing platform along the Canadian coast.  While I'm still attending to distribution of forces in So Cal "just in case," my main effort is to distribute ground troops in Canada and the American northwest (to ward off any para attacks meant to isolate the big cities).  I also went ahead and orderd all So Cal AA units to head north.  The AA units at SF are set to Strat mode so that they can quickly redeploy.

West Coast:  SSX attack at San Diego damages a TK.

CenPac:  Two American combat TFs have penetrated pretty far - one between Truk and Rabaul and the other between Truk and Wake.  The latter will make for Babeldaob in hopes of catching the enemy with their pants down.  Both of these TFs are "expendable" - ie, I realize they could be wiped out, so I had to determine if I was willing to take that risk.  Oilers are trailing far to the rear and have also escaped detection. Saratoga is loitering east of Tarawa, unlikely to raid unless I get firm reports on the location of the KB and Mini KBs.  Yorktown is on patrol well to the east of Pearl Harbor while I decide where she and Sara will ultimately go.

Eastern DEI:  Enemy invasion at Bathhurst Island, just off Darwin.  The enemy is showing much more interest in locations that are significant to western Oz than he is to loctions that would be significant to eastern Oz (that can change quickly) or India (that takes more time to orchestrate).

Western DEI:  Tepid enemy attention to Sumatra and slow-developing attention towards Singapore.

India:  Several USA ground units will be arriving at Capetown in about three weeks.  Under the current conditions, these should make India before the enemy could move their in strength, assuming Steve utilizes a reasonably sane approach of wanting the KB present and to possibly take preliminary bases like Port Blair and Diego Garcia.

Burma:  Steve is working some angles up here, but I don't think he has enough yet to really unhinge the Allies.

China:  All the attention is in the northern sector at the moment.  If Steve brings together enough of his thus-far separate elements, the Allies will have to pull back fron Nanning (or N-something) into the forest east and north (true) of Sian.  That's the usual MLR and the Chinese have their armies in decent position to man it.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/11/2012 4:16:08 PM   
Canoerebel


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I should let the Peanut Gallery know that in a couple of days my family and I will be off on a three-week camping trip ending at the end of May or first of June. 

This is an epic journey that will take us dedicated rebels to the Pacific Ocean - a first for all of us.  Major national park/monument stops include Canyon de Chelly, Natural Bridges, Capital Reef, Bryce Canyon, Grand Canyon, Death Valley, Seqoia, Golden Gate Bridge, Muir Woods, Yosemite, Great Basin, Arches, Rocky Mountain, and the Gateway Arch in St. Louis.  That's alot to do in three weeks, but the camping converts what otherwise might seem a hectic schedule into a more relaxed and cordial one.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/11/2012 4:31:51 PM   
Q-Ball


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I should let the Peanut Gallery know that in a couple of days my family and I will be off on a three-week camping trip ending at the end of May or first of June. 

This is an epic journey that will take us dedicated rebels to the Pacific Ocean - a first for all of us.  Major national park/monument stops include Canyon de Chelly, Natural Bridges, Capital Reef, Bryce Canyon, Grand Canyon, Death Valley, Seqoia, Golden Gate Bridge, Muir Woods, Yosemite, Great Basin, Arches, Rocky Mountain, and the Gateway Arch in St. Louis.  That's alot to do in three weeks, but the camping converts what otherwise might seem a hectic schedule into a more relaxed and cordial one.


I want to do the "Great Western Trip" as well; how hard is it to arrange all the camping reservations? I also need 3 weeks off, which is another problem......

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/11/2012 4:45:41 PM   
Canoerebel


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When we did a different "Great Western Trip" two years ago, we only had reservations for one night on the entire trip.  This time we don't have any reservations at all.  You can usually get a place by arriving early in the day. Also, Sunday nights and early in the week usually isn't a problem.  We did have two problems two years ago - on Memorial Day weekend we paid through the nose at one hotel (after six nights in a tent, it was worth it) and another time we slept in our car.  So, two out of 21 nights were not optimal, but the flexibility we had by not making reservations made it all worthwhile IMO.  Reservations create subtle pressure and stress to "keep to the schedule." 

So, we just have a pretty good idea of what day it is, what park we're going to, and whether there are less-well-known Forest Service or State Park campgrounds that might serve as alternatives.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/11/2012 4:55:10 PM   
BBfanboy


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Or you could just use "Occupy" posters to justify camping anywhere you please! Why not occupy San Diego naval base!

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/11/2012 5:04:38 PM   
Cribtop


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You will enjoy the trip. My wife won't camp, but oddly will hike 14 miles a day so long as we stay in a lodge at night. Weird combo.

Be warned - the Pacific Ocean is awesome but can be chilly!

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/11/2012 6:00:00 PM   
Crackaces


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You are visting Death Valley at a very warm if not unbelievably hot time of the year ... Don't follow the GPS ... [look up the story of the campers that mistakenly folowed a back road to their doom .. ]

As I live in the Desert Southwest I seek the mountains and air conditioning this time of year

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/11/2012 6:03:53 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

You will enjoy the trip. My wife won't camp

My wife refers to camping as "staying in a motel instead of a hotel"

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/11/2012 7:09:01 PM   
Canoerebel


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We're only planning a brief visit to Death Valley, and if we catch it reasonably mild (due to weather or higher elevation or both) we'll camp.  We don't have a GPS, so there's no threat from that particular trap.

I would never try to start a family camping on a journey like this one.  But our family has been camping forever. And this kind of camping is pure luxury compared to what we often do.  On our backpacking trips we have to carry everything on our backs.  So a trip like this - with a cooler and cold drinks and books to read and maybe even a chair or bench to sit on - is a pleasure.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/11/2012 7:12:29 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

We're only planning a brief visit to Death Valley, and if we catch it reasonably mild (due to weather or higher elevation or both) we'll camp.  We don't have a GPS, so there's no threat from that particular trap.



I got a chuckle out of these two in tandem.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/11/2012 7:23:42 PM   
Canoerebel


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Well, Death Valley has at least one campground at an elevation of 2,100 feet.  I've done my homework. 

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/11/2012 8:21:01 PM   
CaptDave

 

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Sounds like a great trip for folks who like that sort of thing (sorry, but I didn't enjoy my time in the Boy Scouts and prefer not to dredge up those memories!). You'll love the northern California sites, for sure (I do -- that's where I grew up -- but I'm of the same ilk as Cribtop's wife). Next trip you'll need to come check out the Pacific Northwest!

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/11/2012 8:26:03 PM   
Cribtop


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Dan, Crackaces is right about the SW. Oddly, in the West Texas desert June is the hottest month. July and August aren't cool, but the seasonal rains come late July through September, so they are cooler. That said, I don't think Death Valley gets seasonal rains, ever.

As you say, you're a camping vet, and at 2100 feet things will be cooler. Have fun!

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/11/2012 8:48:59 PM   
DOCUP


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Death Valley hot during the day and can be cold at night.  Sharp rocks in places also.  I tore up 2 pairs of boots on those rocks.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/11/2012 9:08:13 PM   
zuluhour


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

You will enjoy the trip. My wife won't camp

My wife refers to camping as "staying in a motel instead of a hotel"

quote:

My wife refers to camping as "staying in a motel instead of a hotel"


+1

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/11/2012 9:15:22 PM   
Argos

 

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took a motorcycle camping trip around/thru death valley, bryce canyon, and grand canyon in May one year. 118 day time temp on the floor of the valley (we went thru there very, very fast...) have fluids in bulk before you go in, they are pricey once you get to the valley and not something to run short of.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/11/2012 10:52:24 PM   
Ossian


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I haven't been to many places in the States but I fell in love with Yosemite big time. My dad is an expert and fan of John Muir so I got educated on the guy and his work a lot when I was a nipper. I'll tell you this this, there are very few sights in the world like the Alpenglow at dusk on Half Done. Absolutely majestic. The last time I was there we spent two weeks hiking through the back country - bear encounters, coyotes, crazy student space cadets and the finest cheese burgers in the world at Tuolumne Meadows - it was a fanstastic holiday. Hope you have a great time.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/11/2012 10:57:05 PM   
Encircled


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Did a coach trip down the Rocky Mountains from South Dakota and Nevada with my wife to celebrate one year of marriage.

Did Bryce, Zion, Arches and a few more that I can't remember off hand

Lovely trip, especially the walk through parts of Bryce

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/12/2012 1:27:08 AM   
Cap Mandrake

 

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Wow..that sounds like a fantastic trip.

Captial Reef has some fantatstic slot canyon hikes or easy gentle canyon walks. Sounds like you intend to bypass Zion (which is a fairly short drive from Bryce). Zion has some hikes that will make tears come to your eyes (in a good way). If it is hot the Virgin River hike is fun with kids (the water has to be low). Orderville Canyon (Zion) hike is a beautiful sandstone slot canyon hundreds of feet high. That is pretty adventurous in places with short dog-paddle swims and wading. There are a few spots where a top-rope is a good idea for short (15-20ft) descents over boulders. If you cant camp at Zion you can camp at Cedar Breaks just to the East. Make local inquiries about water levels and don't go into a slot canyon in bad weather (we want to see how the defence of CONUS turns out).

Death Valley may be painfully hot but the mountains on the West side of the park might be 20-25 degrees cooler. There are some campgrounds at about 8000 ft on the West side of the park. Ive been there in the Spring when there is still snow. Cool ghost town to the East.

Sounds like you might want to take an overnight trip from SF to Carmel/Big Sur..some of the most beautiful coastal scapes on the planet, sea lion rookeries, condors, hippies...etc.

North Rim of Grand Canyon is cooler than the South. Little bungalos for rent so you can take a shower once every 10 days or so.

Have fun.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/12/2012 5:01:41 AM   
Canoerebel


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Cap is right!

We did Zion two years ago. We did the amazing hike to Angel's Landing - which somebody on the forums - might have been Cap - told us about. Spectacular - the end scared me to death. Not returning this time because Zion was so packed that it felt a little like a national park version of Wal-Mart (we loved it, but we want to spend time on someplace a little more laid back.)

We'll be visiting the North Rim of the Grand Canyon, as we did two years ago. A blast and still pretty cold on top.

Capital Reef and the hike up Grand Wash, a slot canyon, was an unexpected highlight of our trip. We're going back for more this time.

We might try to get up the coast from San Fran, though time may be an issue.

Any of these areas could easily use three weeks of vacation, so we'll miss alot of cool stuff, but in 21 days we'll see more than we could hope for.


< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 5/12/2012 5:04:30 AM >

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/12/2012 5:07:43 AM   
Whipple

 

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Did Angel's Landing a few years back. It's one of those things in life I'm glad I did but you can't pay me enough to EVER do it again. Now, going up to the point right before the chains heading up... now that's a hell of a view and I've managed to spend hours on multiple trips hanging out there.

Whipple

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/12/2012 6:40:27 AM   
Canoerebel


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I have a fear of heights, but I sucked it up and performed well.  I made it up past Walter's Wiggles and then managed to get up the chains, which was awfully frightening....and then we reached a point and saw where the REAL chains begin.  Holy Cow!  No way.  I went no further and asked my kids not to either.  I don't think I would have survived just thinking about them going up that last section.  It must be safer than it looks, or else 50% of every person that dared that climb would be dead.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/12/2012 6:51:00 AM   
Cribtop


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CR,

No Texas BS for once.

If you like the sort of camping you describe, you really must visit Big Bend sometime. Truly awesome.

As an added incentive, someday we can meet in person and I'll take you to my buddy's Ranch in West Texas. It is 100,000 acres plus. Imagine Big Bend but only you and six other people are there. Very nice!

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/12/2012 3:41:51 PM   
Cap Mandrake

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

It must be safer than it looks, or else 50% of every person that dared that climb would be dead.


That's why the parking lot is so full. Half the cars are from dead climbers.

Yes Zion is like the Yosemite Valley crowd-wise, but you can do the Orderville Canyon hike largely without crowds (until right at the end). You put in at the top of the canyon (on the mesa) and then you descend toward the Virgin River. Of course, then you need a driver to pick you up at the bottom. You could probably find a local to do it...just tell them you are voting for Mitt.

Speaking of Yosemite, the least crowded part is Tuolumne Meadows on the East side. Tioga Pass should be open by the time you get there. You could take a day hike or overnight hike and be above the tree line in no time. Hard to get a drive in campsite in Tuolumne without a resrvation though. If you stay overnight in the wilderness you need bear canisters, a wilderness pass from the smokies and a twin 40 mm Bofors is a good idea too. The high passes will still be snowed in.

I love Capital Reef...there are whole mountians there the color of blood oranges.

Enjoy it...you are in the family camping window..it doesn't last long.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/12/2012 4:28:21 PM   
Ossian


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No trip to the back country around Yosemite should be considered without bear barrels. Hell, the hairy buggers may have figured out how to open them over the years but they still make you feel like your on a proper adventure. :)

The big problem with the wildlife down in the valley itself, as far as I could see, were the holiday makers on Labor day being mugged by gangs of raccoons. The trip was worth it for that alone.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 5/12/2012 5:51:57 PM   
Blackhorse


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Camping under the Gateway Arch in downtown St. Louis, eh?

Except fot that, sounds marvelous. Enjoy!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I should let the Peanut Gallery know that in a couple of days my family and I will be off on a three-week camping trip ending at the end of May or first of June. 

This is an epic journey that will take us dedicated rebels to the Pacific Ocean - a first for all of us.  Major national park/monument stops include Canyon de Chelly, Natural Bridges, Capital Reef, Bryce Canyon, Grand Canyon, Death Valley, Seqoia, Golden Gate Bridge, Muir Woods, Yosemite, Great Basin, Arches, Rocky Mountain, and the Gateway Arch in St. Louis.  That's alot to do in three weeks, but the camping converts what otherwise might seem a hectic schedule into a more relaxed and cordial one.



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