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OT - Prop Pitch when Parked

 
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OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/8/2012 4:18:29 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 3827
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Just out of interest, what is the reccommended prop pitch setting when your plane is parked and tied down, and why is it reccommended?

I can think of reasons for both, 100% and 0%.

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RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/8/2012 5:08:04 PM   
CT Grognard

 

Posts: 579
Joined: 5/16/2010
From: Cape Town, South Africa
Status: offline 		My understanding is fine pitch, or 100%.

This is because it requires less power to rotate the prop on engine start-up, since there is less drag and there is less chance of the engine overheating.

But I can see how fine pitch on a parked aircraft could be a problem from a safety point-of-view, i.e. accidental ignition of the turboprop leading to very high-speed propeller rotation.

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 2
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/8/2012 6:06:47 PM   
dorjun driver


Posts: 631
Joined: 4/20/2006
From: Port Townsend: hex 210,51
Status: offline 		What are you two on about this time?

(in reply to CT Grognard)
Post #: 3
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/8/2012 7:00:15 PM   
Empire101


Posts: 1896
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Coruscant
Status: offline 		Does LoBaron have his own aeroplane?

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Our lives may be more boring than those who lived in apocalyptic times,
but being bored is greatly preferable to being prematurely dead because of some ideological fantasy. - Michael Burleigh


(in reply to dorjun driver)
Post #: 4
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/8/2012 10:42:57 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 3827
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Thanks Deon! Sounds logical.

Dorjun driver, this forum is so full of knowledge, why not tap it? Canorebel´s thread about the Civil War, the discussion
on the Falkland situation, the "Feline Secret Weapons", "Guess the Aircraft" thead #127...I got a lot of respect for the creativity
and accumulated wisdom around here. So if I got questions only barely related to flying, sailing, submarines, Yamamotos postcard
collection, or the average percentage of 3rd wire landings on Hornet from July-Sep ´44, I rather ask it here before I search anywhere
else.

Empire101, sadly no. Its one of my dreams but I guess without winning in the lottery the planes I own will remain virtual.
Still interesting to visit all the places important in WitP AE and so WWII. Teaches you much about the geography
of those places. The three pics below are from todays crossing of the Bass Strait from Tasmania to Yarram, Australia.









_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

(in reply to CT Grognard)
Post #: 5
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/8/2012 10:45:26 PM   
drw61


Posts: 673
Joined: 6/30/2004
From: Newport, Washington
Status: offline 		If he does have his own airplane it makes me a little worried that he would ask the forum on how to fly it

Posted too late - I like the pictures LoBaron

< Message edited by drw61 -- 4/8/2012 10:46:44 PM >

(in reply to Empire101)
Post #: 6
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/8/2012 11:27:14 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 7031
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		I had noticed that turboprops always feathered the props on shutdown, but piston engine planes didn't. I finally figured out why. The wind will cause a turbo prop to windmill if not feathered because there is very little resistance on the shaft when unpowered. On a piston engine, the wind is trying to move the pistons when shut down which means there is a lot of resistance, so they are not feathered.

As far as I've noticed, the pitch on shutdown for a piston engine is usually whatever the pitch was before shutdown, which is, I believe, usually fine pitch when taxiing.

I'm just speculating though. I've never really heard the answer from a pilot.

Bill

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(in reply to drw61)
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RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/8/2012 11:34:44 PM   
CT Grognard

 

Posts: 579
Joined: 5/16/2010
From: Cape Town, South Africa
Status: offline 		Another thing I can think of is that on fine pitch the aircraft won't move forward very quickly once the engine is switched on, which is obviously desirable when starting up the plane and taxiing to the takeoff runway.

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 8
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/8/2012 11:46:22 PM   
aoffen

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 6/7/2002
From: Brisvegas, Australia
Status: offline 		screwed up photo. new post next

< Message edited by aoffen -- 4/8/2012 11:49:46 PM >

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 9
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/8/2012 11:49:25 PM   
aoffen

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 6/7/2002
From: Brisvegas, Australia
Status: offline 		Did that flight for real about 2 weeks ago in a single engine Cirrus SR22. With all the modern gear on that plane, the pucker factor crossing Bass Straight is still about 7. I have no idea how those guys flew their aircraft with no modern navigational equipment off aircraft carriers in the middle of the Pacific. Their pucker factor must have been off the charts.
Regards
Andrew
Photo : land fall in Tasmania. Pucker factor dropping





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by aoffen -- 4/8/2012 11:50:22 PM >

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 10
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/9/2012 8:09:24 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 3827
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I had noticed that turboprops always feathered the props on shutdown, but piston engine planes didn't. I finally figured out why. The wind will cause a turbo prop to windmill if not feathered because there is very little resistance on the shaft when unpowered. On a piston engine, the wind is trying to move the pistons when shut down which means there is a lot of resistance, so they are not feathered.

As far as I've noticed, the pitch on shutdown for a piston engine is usually whatever the pitch was before shutdown, which is, I believe, usually fine pitch when taxiing.

I'm just speculating though. I've never really heard the answer from a pilot.

Bill


Agreed, and very good observation. This was one of the reasons I asked the question in the first place as I have seen both pitch settings,
but did not realize theres a different pattern between piston engines and turboprops. Now this all fits together. Turbos will feather all the
time when the engine is not operating, while piston engines have less strict rules but most probably would use a fine pitch for practiacal reasons.

I knew why I ask such questions around here.

_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 11
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/9/2012 8:26:09 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 3827
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aoffen

Did that flight for real about 2 weeks ago in a single engine Cirrus SR22. With all the modern gear on that plane, the pucker factor crossing Bass Straight is still about 7. I have no idea how those guys flew their aircraft with no modern navigational equipment off aircraft carriers in the middle of the Pacific. Their pucker factor must have been off the charts.
Regards
Andrew
Photo : land fall in Tasmania. Pucker factor dropping







Andrew, wow you don´t know how much I envy you for such an experience, pucker factor included.

I think I can imagine how it feels though, I have flown airplanes and if I use FSX I try to recreate the situations
as immersive as possible. Still planning for pilots license in the near future, but I have to live by "first things first" rules,
and a licence is terribly expensive to gain and maintain in Europe. USA and Australia, where you still have use for people
with a PPL, is much different.

Where did you make landfall? It looks like NE coast but I cannot really find your position when the pic was done.
Those meanders always change shape, so google maps is not really reliable.

This is how NE coast of Tasmania looks in (a well tuned) FSX just after sunrise. I crossed Bass Strait with Flinders NDB as waypoint,
but the last leg from Flinders Island to Yarram is a huge area of water, always a weird feeling in a single engine.






_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

(in reply to aoffen)
Post #: 12
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/9/2012 8:39:43 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 3827
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron
Where did you make landfall? It looks like NE coast but I cannot really find your position when the pic was done.
Those meanders always change shape, so google maps is not really reliable.


HA!, Skip that, is it Sawyer Bay, East of Smithton?



_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

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Post #: 13
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/9/2012 8:48:46 AM   
CT Grognard

 

Posts: 579
Joined: 5/16/2010
From: Cape Town, South Africa
Status: offline 		That's Sawyer Bay, just east of the Detention River mouth.

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 14
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/9/2012 8:52:16 AM   
CT Grognard

 

Posts: 579
Joined: 5/16/2010
From: Cape Town, South Africa
Status: offline 		Here's a Google Map image with the approximate direction of the photo.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to CT Grognard)
Post #: 15
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/9/2012 9:04:49 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 3827
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Yeah, noticed it too.

I used Smithton as a base for trying out the OrbX Tasmania freeware.
Roughly the same area, my screenshot is a bit to the Southwest of Smithton, YSMI.
Looks pretty real.






< Message edited by LoBaron -- 4/9/2012 9:06:48 AM >

_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

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Post #: 16
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/9/2012 9:54:35 AM   
Reg


Posts: 2097
Joined: 5/26/2000
From: Victoria, Australia
Status: offline
On the topic of prop pitch when parked see this link: http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Gies/3103.htm

Also page 4 of this link: CASA Safety Magazine Sep-Oct 2001



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Cheers,
Reg.

(One day I will learn to spell - or check before posting....)
Uh oh, Firefox has introduced a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 17
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/9/2012 9:56:53 AM   
aoffen

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 6/7/2002
From: Brisvegas, Australia
Status: offline 		You got it exactly. It wasn't exactly first land fall but it was the first place we took a photo so I took some poetic licence. The map below is the flight path we took for the day. It was a pretty spectacular flight and as you saw the weather was fantastic.

The only experience I have of flying in Europe was one flight 2 years ago from Denham near Heathrow to Le Touqet (?) in France and back. Great fun but man it was expensive. I told the lady I didn't want to buy the plane just rent it. She didn't think I was at all funny...strange.

The best place to get your licence is in the US. It is way cheaper and so much more aviation friendly there. Our yankee pilot friends don't know how lucky they are. Unfortunately the Eurocracy seems to be closing that option down, so the future for GA in Europe isn't so rosy.

Cheers
Andrew




Attachment (1)

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 18
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/9/2012 10:52:17 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 3827
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg


On the topic of prop pitch when parked see this link: http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Gies/3103.htm

Also page 4 of this link: CASA Safety Magazine Sep-Oct 2001




Yeah, I have read of that incident. The pilot must have been anywhere with his thoughts but for sure not related
to the checklist.

"How do you prefer your plane, Sir?"

"Neat, slim slices, please. With clean edges."

"Understood, Sir, so fine pitch it is. Release parking brakes...."

_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

(in reply to Reg)
Post #: 19
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/9/2012 12:00:20 PM   
Empire101


Posts: 1896
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Coruscant
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron



Empire101, sadly no. Its one of my dreams but I guess without winning in the lottery the planes I own will remain virtual.
Still interesting to visit all the places important in WitP AE and so WWII. Teaches you much about the geography
of those places. The three pics below are from todays crossing of the Bass Strait from Tasmania to Yarram, Australia.




What a great idea!! Now why can't I think laterally like that?


_____________________________

Our lives may be more boring than those who lived in apocalyptic times,
but being bored is greatly preferable to being prematurely dead because of some ideological fantasy. - Michael Burleigh


(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 20
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/9/2012 1:12:59 PM   
michaelm


Posts: 8197
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aoffen

Did that flight for real about 2 weeks ago in a single engine Cirrus SR22. With all the modern gear on that plane, the pucker factor crossing Bass Straight is still about 7. I have no idea how those guys flew their aircraft with no modern navigational equipment off aircraft carriers in the middle of the Pacific. Their pucker factor must have been off the charts.
Regards
Andrew
Photo : land fall in Tasmania. Pucker factor dropping





Whats the dark area near the river mouth? Silt buildup or pollution?
Seems to be too 'precise' to be natural.

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to aoffen)
Post #: 21
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/9/2012 1:44:14 PM   
aoffen

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 6/7/2002
From: Brisvegas, Australia
Status: offline 		Thats the reason for the photo. It looked really weird. I think its actually tanin from the river water. Most of the rivers in Tassie seemed to be very dark because of all the tanins leaching into the water from the trees.

(in reply to michaelm)
Post #: 22
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/9/2012 6:51:59 PM   
jetjockey


Posts: 211
Joined: 11/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I had noticed that turboprops always feathered the props on shutdown, but piston engine planes didn't. I finally figured out why. The wind will cause a turbo prop to windmill if not feathered because there is very little resistance on the shaft when unpowered. On a piston engine, the wind is trying to move the pistons when shut down which means there is a lot of resistance, so they are not feathered.

As far as I've noticed, the pitch on shutdown for a piston engine is usually whatever the pitch was before shutdown, which is, I believe, usually fine pitch when taxiing.

I'm just speculating though. I've never really heard the answer from a pilot.

Bill

Bill,

The ATR (perhaps the Dash-8 and others as well) will normally shut-down with the props feathered. All of the turboprops I am familiar with will shut-down with the props at a flat pitch though. Residual oil pressure will drive the props flat during shut-down so that the props can "sit" on a prop-lock. The flat pitch reduces drag during engine start. I'm not sure a turboprop can even be started on the ground with the props feathered (never tried). The ATR is a different beast though. I'm not Typed in the ATR but I have heard that the props are not directly tied to the turbine (via a reduction gear assembly) as other turbo-props are. Rather, the ATR's props are tied to a separate shaft and turbine (think tube within a tube) allowing engine start independent of prop rotation. Check out www.airliners.net; cool site.

Brian

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 23
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/9/2012 9:16:52 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 3827
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Thanks, jetjockey.

_____________________________

S**t happens in war.

All hail the superior ones!

(in reply to jetjockey)
Post #: 24
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/10/2012 8:31:17 AM   
Reg


Posts: 2097
Joined: 5/26/2000
From: Victoria, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jetjockey


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I had noticed that turboprops always feathered the props on shutdown, but piston engine planes didn't. I finally figured out why. The wind will cause a turbo prop to windmill if not feathered because there is very little resistance on the shaft when unpowered. On a piston engine, the wind is trying to move the pistons when shut down which means there is a lot of resistance, so they are not feathered.

As far as I've noticed, the pitch on shutdown for a piston engine is usually whatever the pitch was before shutdown, which is, I believe, usually fine pitch when taxiing.

I'm just speculating though. I've never really heard the answer from a pilot.

Bill

Bill,

The ATR (perhaps the Dash-8 and others as well) will normally shut-down with the props feathered. All of the turboprops I am familiar with will shut-down with the props at a flat pitch though. Residual oil pressure will drive the props flat during shut-down so that the props can "sit" on a prop-lock. The flat pitch reduces drag during engine start. I'm not sure a turboprop can even be started on the ground with the props feathered (never tried). The ATR is a different beast though. I'm not Typed in the ATR but I have heard that the props are not directly tied to the turbine (via a reduction gear assembly) as other turbo-props are. Rather, the ATR's props are tied to a separate shaft and turbine (think tube within a tube) allowing engine start independent of prop rotation. Check out www.airliners.net; cool site.

Brian


The Lockheed Electra/Orion is the exact opposite....






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Cheers,
Reg.

(One day I will learn to spell - or check before posting....)
Uh oh, Firefox has introduced a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

(in reply to jetjockey)
Post #: 25
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/10/2012 8:32:15 AM   
Reg


Posts: 2097
Joined: 5/26/2000
From: Victoria, Australia
Status: offline 		For comparison: Dash-8






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Cheers,
Reg.

(One day I will learn to spell - or check before posting....)
Uh oh, Firefox has introduced a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

(in reply to Reg)
Post #: 26
RE: OT - Prop Pitch when Parked - 4/11/2012 9:45:52 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 768
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline 		Fine pitch for sure.

Starting it "full open" is like trying to move a stick shift car from 0 mph... in third gear.

(in reply to Reg)
Post #: 27
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