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RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu

 
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RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 10/7/2012 2:57:25 PM   
ny59giants


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Bump due to recent questions about Japan's economic set up.

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RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 10/7/2012 3:03:23 PM   
drw61


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my59giants,
I'll look into the starting supply / oil dicrepancies this week.
As always thanks for the feedback!

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Bump due to recent questions about Japan's economic set up.


(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 32
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 10/7/2012 3:52:25 PM   
US87891

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: drw61
my59giants,
I'll look into the starting supply / oil dicrepancies this week.
As always thanks for the feedback!

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
Bump due to recent questions about Japan's economic set up.


Hello Daryl. Greyjoy found this and posted a question. Had MO fix it already. He's the site admin and says it will be up this afternoon. Here's a screenshot of the econ for stock scen2 and his fix for scen 30. Beginning pools are a little different and I don't know why but all the production numbers are the same. Hope this helps you out.

Matt




Attachment (1)

(in reply to drw61)
Post #: 33
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 10/7/2012 3:59:45 PM   
GreyJoy


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Yes, NY59Giants showed me the starting pools for scenario 1 and it seems that DBBscen30 has all the same industrial numbers ( pools included) of scenario 1 stock, while the OOBs are those of scenario2

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 34
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 10/7/2012 5:28:23 PM   
ny59giants


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I was able to go into the Editor to add some Convoys to show up at Tokyo with additional supply and fuel for ongoing games. Since GreyJoy is slightly ahead of my game vs Olorin (he is Japan), I choose August 1st and Sept 1st as test dates. Olorin reported the game shows changes to the database, but the new 'convoys' did not show up (they did when I tried to start a new game). My understanding of unofficial games, which this mod is, they take affect as long it is something that happens in the future. Did I do something wrong or is there a way to get some 'convoys' to show up for Japan?? Some feedback from those who do modding would help.

FYI - I only sent the 'l' file to Olorin as I just modified the existing "Locations" section in the Editor.

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Post #: 35
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 10/7/2012 6:40:08 PM   
US87891

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Yes, NY59Giants showed me the starting pools for scenario 1 and it seems that DBBscen30 has all the same industrial numbers ( pools included) of scenario 1 stock, while the OOBs are those of scenario2

Fixed it so 30 is now the same as stock 02. Was a fumble, but was recovered before it went out of bounds.

Matt

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 36
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 10/7/2012 8:27:24 PM   
drw61


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From: Newport, Washington
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Thnaks all, I was just starting to look at this and find its already done!


quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891


quote:

ORIGINAL: drw61
my59giants,
I'll look into the starting supply / oil dicrepancies this week.
As always thanks for the feedback!

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
Bump due to recent questions about Japan's economic set up.


Hello Daryl. Greyjoy found this and posted a question. Had MO fix it already. He's the site admin and says it will be up this afternoon. Here's a screenshot of the econ for stock scen2 and his fix for scen 30. Beginning pools are a little different and I don't know why but all the production numbers are the same. Hope this helps you out.

Matt





(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 37
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 10/7/2012 10:26:12 PM   
GreyJoy


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Yes, basically Scen 30 had the same economy of stock scenario 1.

So scenario 30 had the OOB of scenario 2 but the economy of scenario 1... possibly it's an interesting mix

(in reply to drw61)
Post #: 38
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 10/11/2012 11:28:44 AM   
GreyJoy


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Hi, i've also found that not only the whole economy of scenario 30 is the same of stock scen 1, but also the pilots replacement rates are the same of scenario 1 (which is, actually, a good thing cause with the scenario 1 economy, the HI drain of the scen 2 replacements rates would be a game-breaker)...

The ground reinforcements seem to be correct (those of scen 2) and so the naval OOB.

Haven't checked the airgroups OOB...

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 39
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 10/11/2012 12:59:23 PM   
drw61


Posts: 763
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From: Newport, Washington
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GrayJoy,
Thanks for looking at the scenario, a second set of eyes is always needed/welcomed!
I have just updated the first post with the updated economy and pilots replacement rates. I'll send a copy to US87891 to update the DBBB site.

Thanks, Daryl

Side note: the added air groups are in ID 5001 to 5065


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Hi, i've also found that not only the whole economy of scenario 30 is the same of stock scen 1, but also the pilots replacement rates are the same of scenario 1 (which is, actually, a good thing cause with the scenario 1 economy, the HI drain of the scen 2 replacements rates would be a game-breaker)...

The ground reinforcements seem to be correct (those of scen 2) and so the naval OOB.

Haven't checked the airgroups OOB...


(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 40
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 10/11/2012 4:14:42 PM   
US87891

 

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Got Daryl's updates. Thank you Daryl. Sent them to the site master for posting.

Don't forget that in Babes standards refineries don't produce that supply point.

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Post #: 41
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 11/15/2012 12:32:04 PM   
ny59giants


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I'm in mid-August 42 and considering the number of Air HQs the Allies already have, I think there need to be a significant increase in the number of leaders that can be assigned to these HQS. I have only these (screenshot) Marine leaders that can be selected for all those MAG HQs. I would suggest pulling up Tracker and sorting the leaders by their Air skill and see if some can be moved over to HQ vs Air Unit. I have 10 Marine Air HQs and this is what I have for choices.




Attachment (1)

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RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 11/16/2012 1:47:26 PM   
drw61


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my59giants,
I agree on this, I can do some basic research on the internet but I have no background on the capabilities of marine leaders. The stats would be a complete guess.
Daryl

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 43
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 11/16/2012 5:24:43 PM   
GreyJoy


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Hi guys,

  I'm now in late october 1942. The supply problem hasn't really struck yet but, without revealing too much to QBall, i can tell you that without the supplies produced by the refineries, Japan won't be able to do much in a scenario 2 environement.

But i do see some positive aspects here. Japan SHOULD always have a supply proble,, while it seems that, in most of the games, Japan never have any real supply concerns.

The good thing is that every supply has to be shipped all the way from Japan. Burma is always desperately short of supplies and so are all the other theatres, which gives a good picture of how the japanese empire should have been at that time.

But we need to balance this good feature (which is a VERY good one) with the late war japanese OOB feeding needs. I don't see how i can survive, producing 25,000 supplies per day, when all those late war LCUs will start to arrive. I'm already shutting down most of my R&D factories (not repairing them) in order to save supplies and am not expanding anything (always to save supplies for future needs).

Despite having played so far a very conservative game, i never have more than 500k supplies in the whole Japan and am not shipping outside more than 100k each month...and yet i'm struggling everywhere. I even have concerns about upgrading some air groups in order not to waste too many supplies in key bases (like Singapore or Rabaul).

But, once again, this Mod is awesome and the fact that Japan has all these problems is a really good thing imho! I'm just scared about what will happen when all those mid-late war divisions will arrive online...will i have food to feed them all?

(in reply to drw61)
Post #: 44
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 11/19/2012 6:57:53 PM   
drw61


Posts: 763
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I'm in mid-August 42 and considering the number of Air HQs the Allies already have, I think there need to be a significant increase in the number of leaders that can be assigned to these HQS. I have only these (screenshot) Marine leaders that can be selected for all those MAG HQs. I would suggest pulling up Tracker and sorting the leaders by their Air skill and see if some can be moved over to HQ vs Air Unit. I have 10 Marine Air HQs and this is what I have for choices.





my59giants,

I dont have tracker so I cant check them that way, but I could add the following in.

Possible US Marine Air Headquarters Commanders
These individuals are not in the game and would work, but I have no information on skill levels. I can make them all have a generic skill set of Skill - 55, Inspiration - 55, Naval - 20, Air - 65, Land - 40, Admin - 50, Aggression - 60, Political - 25
Please let me know if you think these skill levels are to high/low.

I will pass this on to the DBBB team to see if they are willing to include it into the mods after we take a look/get feedback on it.

MGEN Rowell, Ross E - Aug 42 ( Commanding General, Marine Aircraft Wings Pacific, during the period from August 1942 to September 1944 ) https://www.mcu.usmc.mil/historydivision/Pages/Whos_Who/Rowell_RE.aspx
BGEN Larkin, Claude Arthur - Dec 41 (colonel on 6 January 1942, brigadier general on 5 October 1942, For the first eight months of World War II, Lieutenant General Larkin was "SNAP"-Senior Naval Aviator Present-for Marines in the Pacific war zones
https://www.mcu.usmc.mil/historydivision/Pages/Whos_Who/Larkin_CA.aspx
Merritt, Lewie G. (Griff) - Mid 43 ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewie_G._Merritt
COL Brice, William O. - Dec 41 https://www.mcu.usmc.mil/historydivision/Pages/Whos_Who/Brice_WO.aspx
COL Cushman, Thomas J. - Dec 41 https://www.mcu.usmc.mil/historydivision/Pages/Whos_Who/Cushman_TJ.aspx
COL Hayes, Charles H. - Jan 44 https://www.mcu.usmc.mil/historydivision/Pages/Whos_Who/Hayes_CH.aspx
COL Jerome, Clayton C. - Jan 44 https://www.mcu.usmc.mil/historydivision/Pages/Whos_Who/Jerome_CC.aspx
COL Megee, Vernon E. -May 44 https://www.mcu.usmc.mil/historydivision/Pages/Whos_Who/Megee_VE.aspx
COL Roberts, Carson A - Jan 44 https://www.mcu.usmc.mil/historydivision/Pages/Whos_Who/Roberts_CA.aspx

Daryl

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 45
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 11/19/2012 7:52:45 PM   
Natali

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: drw61
Possible US Marine Air Headquarters Commanders
These individuals are not in the game and would work, but I have no information on skill levels. I can make them all have a generic skill set of Skill - 55, Inspiration - 55, Naval - 20, Air - 65, Land - 40, Admin - 50, Aggression - 60, Political - 25
Please let me know if you think these skill levels are to high/low.

I will pass this on to the DBBB team to see if they are willing to include it into the mods after we take a look/get feedback on it.

MGEN Rowell, Ross E - Aug 42 ( Commanding General, Marine Aircraft Wings Pacific, during the period from August 1942 to September 1944 ) https://www.mcu.usmc.mil/historydivision/Pages/Whos_Who/Rowell_RE.aspx
BGEN Larkin, Claude Arthur - Dec 41 (colonel on 6 January 1942, brigadier general on 5 October 1942, For the first eight months of World War II, Lieutenant General Larkin was "SNAP"-Senior Naval Aviator Present-for Marines in the Pacific war zones
https://www.mcu.usmc.mil/historydivision/Pages/Whos_Who/Larkin_CA.aspx
Merritt, Lewie G. (Griff) - Mid 43 ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewie_G._Merritt
COL Brice, William O. - Dec 41 https://www.mcu.usmc.mil/historydivision/Pages/Whos_Who/Brice_WO.aspx
COL Cushman, Thomas J. - Dec 41 https://www.mcu.usmc.mil/historydivision/Pages/Whos_Who/Cushman_TJ.aspx
COL Hayes, Charles H. - Jan 44 https://www.mcu.usmc.mil/historydivision/Pages/Whos_Who/Hayes_CH.aspx
COL Jerome, Clayton C. - Jan 44 https://www.mcu.usmc.mil/historydivision/Pages/Whos_Who/Jerome_CC.aspx
COL Megee, Vernon E. -May 44 https://www.mcu.usmc.mil/historydivision/Pages/Whos_Who/Megee_VE.aspx
COL Roberts, Carson A - Jan 44 https://www.mcu.usmc.mil/historydivision/Pages/Whos_Who/Roberts_CA.aspx

Daryl

Ho Daryl,

Be glad to do that. I'm doing a big rehab on BabesLite and making a '42 scenario, so this a good spot to play with this. I can set it up so it can get imported to Big Babes without trouble. I see your stuff and will play along ... but.

Recon it wasn't done before is because of HQ leader wierdness. If I understand it right a HQ will only take a leader from leaders marked Type 01 - Headquarters. If they are marked Type-1, they can't command anything else. That's stupid, since Corps, and Army, and other HQ units were commanded by generals/admirals who were operational as division, air wing, task force, commanders the week before.

Babes guys tell me that their thought is that HQs offer some significant benefits all their own and that's why they added more lower-level HQs in their system. Because the benefit is by the HQ, as an HQ, the actual commander is a non-starter. If there isn't a commander on the list, you get a random Colonel. They never thought that people would want to squeeze the last ounce out of the capability.

If you do this for the Marines, you have to do this for every single other Allied air HQ and every single Japanese air HQ to keep things in balance. If you all would send me all the commanders of all the air HQ units, I will get a thrill up my leg and add them in at once.

(in reply to drw61)
Post #: 46
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 11/19/2012 8:37:31 PM   
ny59giants


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Thanks for looking into this!!

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RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 11/29/2012 2:51:24 PM   
sanderz

 

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Hi

I am about to start a new game versus the AI and this mod really appeals to me. A few questions though....

1) Do GreyJoys comments on the Japanese supply situation affect the ai the same way - or does the ai play with different rules. i.e. does it break the mod and do i need to wait for a fix (or would a fix if needed apply to a game in progress?)

2) Any changes to this mod due in the next few weeks (e.g. the supply as mentioned above, or anything else?) Reason for asking is i don't want to start a new game if theres any major changes on the horizon.

3) Its been a while since i have played this game but am i right in thinking the latest beta patch works fine with this mod?

Many thanks

sanderz

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 48
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 12/1/2012 1:56:58 PM   
drw61


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I'm working on an update so hold off for a bit. I'll try and have it done by the end of next week. I'm looking at is GreyJoys comments about Japanese supply and what Andy added in his latest update. As for the Beta patch, I'm using it now and its working great.

Daryl

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanderz

Hi

I am about to start a new game versus the AI and this mod really appeals to me. A few questions though....

1) Do GreyJoys comments on the Japanese supply situation affect the ai the same way - or does the ai play with different rules. i.e. does it break the mod and do i need to wait for a fix (or would a fix if needed apply to a game in progress?)

2) Any changes to this mod due in the next few weeks (e.g. the supply as mentioned above, or anything else?) Reason for asking is i don't want to start a new game if theres any major changes on the horizon.

3) Its been a while since i have played this game but am i right in thinking the latest beta patch works fine with this mod?

Many thanks

sanderz


(in reply to sanderz)
Post #: 49
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 12/3/2012 3:26:53 PM   
drw61


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From: Newport, Washington
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I finally have had some time to review Andy's latest version of Scenario 2 and have found a couple of things that need updating. To help stop some confusion I will post this using the DBBB standard, scenario number 30 instead of scenario 56.

Fixed ship cargo capacities
Added some additional supplies, resources, HI and LI to Japan
Added three Marine aviators for USMC HQs
Added 4th Flotilla for Japan
Updated named pilots so they point to the correct air units
Updated the AI files to Andy's latest version.
Daryl

(in reply to drw61)
Post #: 50
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 12/15/2012 8:12:11 PM   
ny59giants


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Refineries and Supply - To help Japan out somewhat, can you go into the Editor and add "Daily Supply" amounts at bases that have Refineries 'at start' equal to what they would produce IF they did so under stock scenarios?? This would help alleviate some supply shortage throughout the war, but still require Japan to ship them from Japan rather than get them from a large supply producing Refinery like Palembang. If so, is there a way to do so with games in progress like GreyJoy and Olorin (my game)?

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RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 12/16/2012 3:46:17 AM   
drw61


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My59giants,
I just experimented with adjusting amounts of daily supply, fuel, oil, resources, with my ongoing game vs. the AI of scen 30 and it worked. I also adjusted a cities Manpower, Resources, Oil, HI, LI, Refineries, Repair Shipyard and Aircraft production and they all worked too.
I have no idea if this would work in a PBEM game but you can make the changes you want in the editor and see.
Daryl

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 52
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 1/16/2013 4:53:21 PM   
GreyJoy


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Hi Daryl,

  i may be mistaken but it seems that in scen 30 the amount of HI present in Japan is slightly inferior to the one in stock.
Tracker counts 6070 HI factories in Japan, while in stock scen 1 there seem to be something like 6900 and something... is this difference WAD?
If it's so, the problems connected with refineries not producing supplies could be even bigger, having less HI producing supplies than in a stock game (assuming the stock game provides rational numbers in order to sustain Japan's late war economy, given enough fuel).

Thanks in advance

GJ




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by GreyJoy -- 1/16/2013 5:35:33 PM >

(in reply to drw61)
Post #: 53
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 1/16/2013 5:00:46 PM   
GreyJoy


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Joined: 3/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: drw61

My59giants,
I just experimented with adjusting amounts of daily supply, fuel, oil, resources, with my ongoing game vs. the AI of scen 30 and it worked. I also adjusted a cities Manpower, Resources, Oil, HI, LI, Refineries, Repair Shipyard and Aircraft production and they all worked too.
I have no idea if this would work in a PBEM game but you can make the changes you want in the editor and see.
Daryl




Would you please give us some infos about the adjustments you made? I'd like to know if, with the present settings, i may have a chance (provided enough care on my part in handling my economy) to last untill the end of the game or if i really need to be patched up

Thanks a lot

GJ

(in reply to drw61)
Post #: 54
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 1/16/2013 5:09:11 PM   
GreyJoy


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BTW, just to add that i'm really really really pleased with how DBB is performing. The new flak (both naval and land) really works perfectly and so it does the lowered effects of GP bombs and torp accurancy. everything you've done guys has really improved the gaming experience.
Stacking limits changes the whole land warfare, making everything slower and more interesting.

I will never, ever, ever go back to a stock game


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Post #: 55
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 1/16/2013 9:40:43 PM   
Symon


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I must say I appreciate your enthusiasm for the Babes mod very much. It’s players like you that it was made for.

Some background history is perhaps in order so you don’t get the idea that you are being ‘shined off’. AndyMac made IronMan waaay back in the day. There wasn’t Tracker back then and there wasn’t quite as good an appreciation of how everything interacted, as there is today.

Daryl liked IronMan and also liked Babes, so he undertook to port IronMan to the Babes data standard. Fabulous job, but it necessarily kept those pesky logistics/production numerics of the original – because, whodda thunk, yeah?

I guess what I’m saying is it’s WAD, but the D could use some help; and not just for IronMan but ALL mod scenarios. Babes is as guilty as all others.

Nobody has ever done an appreciation of stockpiles, production, inputs, and outputs with respect to scenario OOBs and requirements. Bad on us. But now that this has become an issue, we’ll look into it. But that’s just a Babes promise. Andy may have other imperatives he’s addressing and it’s his basic scenario after all.

Awfully sorry to shine you off with promises for the future, but unfortunately, what you see now is what you get. But I do think it's still worth the effort.

Ciao. JWE

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 56
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 1/16/2013 9:57:07 PM   
GreyJoy


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Joined: 3/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon

I must say I appreciate your enthusiasm for the Babes mod very much. It’s players like you that it was made for.

Some background history is perhaps in order so you don’t get the idea that you are being ‘shined off’. AndyMac made IronMan waaay back in the day. There wasn’t Tracker back then and there wasn’t quite as good an appreciation of how everything interacted, as there is today.

Daryl liked IronMan and also liked Babes, so he undertook to port IronMan to the Babes data standard. Fabulous job, but it necessarily kept those pesky logistics/production numerics of the original – because, whodda thunk, yeah?

I guess what I’m saying is it’s WAD, but the D could use some help; and not just for IronMan but ALL mod scenarios. Babes is as guilty as all others.

Nobody has ever done an appreciation of stockpiles, production, inputs, and outputs with respect to scenario OOBs and requirements. Bad on us. But now that this has become an issue, we’ll look into it. But that’s just a Babes promise. Andy may have other imperatives he’s addressing and it’s his basic scenario after all.

Awfully sorry to shine you off with promises for the future, but unfortunately, what you see now is what you get. But I do think it's still worth the effort.

Ciao. JWE





Hi jwe!

Don't worry! I'm not losing my faith! I perfectly understand what u say and i also know that a mod, is, somehow, like a beta...we're all testers, aren't we?

However the game plays out so well that i don 't even think to give up!
With some efforts i managed not to crush my economy and, despite the lack of supplies, fuel and HI, japanese economy is still playable in mid 1943 so i don't lose my faith.

I just would like to understand if i can go till tnhe very end with these numbers or if i have to agree with my esteeemed opponent to ask to Someone to edit our current game and add, maybe, a bit of supplies once in a while ( maybe with a offmap cargo arrival)....

If this won't be possible....doesn't really matter. Afaik Japan RL problems were much bigger than mine...

Thanks mate

(in reply to Symon)
Post #: 57
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 1/17/2013 1:24:19 PM   
GreyJoy


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I have to ask sorry. PaxMondo enlighted me about a mistake of mine committed while reading the numbers.
There are no HI missing in scen 30. Repeat: no HI missing.
It's simply a scenario where the OOBs of scenario 2 are put over the economy of scenario 1. Nothing more. and i was already aware of that.

Apologise for creating some panic among readers.

Sorry guys

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 58
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 1/17/2013 3:00:47 PM   
drw61


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From: Newport, Washington
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GreyJoy
The Japanese economy for scenario 30 is based on scenario 2 not scenario 1. I even added extra in to help Japan out. Am I missing something?
Thanks Daryl

Here is a comparison between the three.




quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

I have to ask sorry. PaxMondo enlighted me about a mistake of mine committed while reading the numbers.
There are no HI missing in scen 30. Repeat: no HI missing.
It's simply a scenario where the OOBs of scenario 2 are put over the economy of scenario 1. Nothing more. and i was already aware of that.

Apologise for creating some panic among readers.

Sorry guys





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< Message edited by drw61 -- 1/17/2013 3:04:11 PM >

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 59
RE: DaBigBabes - Scenario 2 Hakko Ichiu - 1/17/2013 3:58:35 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 5729
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
These aren't the numbers of the scenario 30 i have. Mine was downloaded in july, so before the last modifications you made in october 2012.
As soon as i get home i'll shoot a scenario 30 and post a screenshot to compare with the ones you posted.

Thanks mate

GJ

(in reply to drw61)
Post #: 60
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