1.7.0.13 - enforce colonization range limits

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Kayoz
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1.7.0.13 - enforce colonization range limits

Post by Kayoz »

Problem:
Range is not enforced - as the 1.7.0.12 release notes claim. Colonies out of range, w. red lettering in the expansion planner, are still capable of being colonized - either manually, or w. expansion planner.

AI seems to restrict its colonization to the range limit. The player can by mistake, or design, ignore the limit. Is this how it's SUPPOSED to work? If so, then a more detailed explanation is needed. For example, does the limit apply exclusively to establishing new colonies? Does it apply to sending your colonists to independent colonies? How about invasion forces - in one sense, that's colonization - albeit in force.

File demonstrating issue:
ColonizationRange-20120403.dwg

Note:
It would be appreciated if the so-called beta-testers actually tested the game. As a new feature in 1.7.0.12, this should have been exercised. However, that seems not to be the case.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ― Christopher Hitchens
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ASHBERY76
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RE: 1.7.0.13 - enforce colonization range limits

Post by ASHBERY76 »

The only non range allowance should be invasions.
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ehsumrell1
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RE: 1.7.0.13 - enforce colonization range limits

Post by ehsumrell1 »

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

Problem:

Note:
It would be appreciated if the so-called beta-testers actually tested the game. As a new feature in 1.7.0.12, this should have been exercised. However, that seems not to be the case.

Hello Kayoz;

I will respond to your inquiry only because your relentless negative posts seem to
purposely irritate the majority of us here on this forum.

At the moment, I (and other beta testers) are working on release 1.7.0.13. Each release
attempts to correct, fix, repair, etcetera any known problems and/or bugs that was in the
previous release. Also remember that in doing so, on rare occasion, sometimes a new release
may break something that has worked properly in the game all along.

We appreciate any and all bug reports so Elliot can be made aware and intervene. But
remember that once a release is out, there now exist 'thousands' of players (testers)
of the game that create MANY more scenarios than the current testers can produce.

Since YOUR name is NOT in the credits of the game though, please forgive me for NOT
understanding either the negative attitude of your posts, or the reasoning behind
YOU not understanding the fact that Elliot and everyone else on this planet is human
and can't be perfect. Please feel free to propose a methodology on how this, or any
other complex game, can be made bug-free.
When you do, forward it to Elliot, Electronic Arts, Ubisoft, and all the others (especially the makers of the X3 series).

Forgive me for not wasting my time in reading any reply from you, I must continue my testing {i.e. Pressing the green button now}.
Shields are useless in "The Briar Patch"...
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Kayoz
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RE: 1.7.0.13 - enforce colonization range limits

Post by Kayoz »

ORIGINAL: ehsumrell1

I will respond to your inquiry only because your relentless negative posts seem to
purposely irritate the majority of us here on this forum.

Relentless? Perhaps you should consult a dictionary before using words you are not familiar with. My comments are not "relentless negative" - I comment positively on positive developments, and negative where the development is such. The term for that is "constructive criticism". If you are so faint of heart that you lack the constitution to face criticism, then I can only suggest that you avoid any and all forums.
At the moment, I (and other beta testers) are working on release 1.7.0.13. Each release
attempts to correct, fix, repair, etcetera any known problems and/or bugs that was in the
previous release. Also remember that in doing so, on rare occasion, sometimes a new release
may break something that has worked properly in the game all along.

Irrelevant. This is not, as you suggest, something that was broken in this release that was working previously. It is a new feature which was not tested by those who accepted the responsibility to test. While you claim to have read my post, your wording makes it clear that you have not.

As for your "working on release 1.7.0.13" - that is entirely confusing. As I clearly stated in my post title, this is an issue with 1.7.0.13, and the issue was in 1.7.0.12. That means, should the timeline be too complex for you, that:

1. beta testers should have tested it before the release of 1.7.0.12
2. beta testers should have tested it between the release of 1.7.0.12 and 1.7.0.13
3. having failed #1 and #2 above, the beta-testers had an additional 2 weeks since the release of 1.7.0.13 (till now) to test it.

Perhaps my concept of "beta tester" is wrong. In my experience, it is a select group of people that get development builds before they are released to the general public. Since as you claim - you are testing 1.7.0.13 - then you are not, as far as my understanding goes, a beta tester. You are another "Joe Public" who is downloading a beta patch, ostensibly after it has gone through the hands of these "beta testers".

Am I wrong in this? If you are truthful in your claim to be a "beta-tester", then that is a title that can be claimed by anyone who downloads the patches following Elliot's posts. In that case, I suggest you get off your pompous horse - we are equals, and your use of the title of "beta tester" is misleading to the casual reader. It's a hat that can be picked up at a whim by anyone.
We appreciate any and all bug reports so Elliot can be made aware and intervene. But
remember that once a release is out, there now exist 'thousands' of players (testers)
of the game that create MANY more scenarios than the current testers can produce.

Your use of "we" includes myself as well, given your previous statement - should I be mistaken in my understanding of "beta tester" as used in DW development.

As for your testing of, "MANY more scenarios than the current testers can produce" - I fail to understand how "push a button" is difficult to produce. Enforced col. range restriction requires only that you push a button, and only requires that in your game, you find a suitable planet that is beyond the defined range limitation. Is that really so hard a testing situation to produce?
Since YOUR name is NOT in the credits of the game though

Given your use of the term "beta tester", I thank you for pointing out that grossly unfair omission. My name should be on that list - as well as the unrecognized thousands of others whose interest was piqued by Elliot's release announcements.

As you are clearly better connected to have this glaring omission rectified, I shall leave it in your capable hands.
...the negative attitude of your posts, or the reasoning behind
YOU not understanding the fact that Elliot and everyone else on this planet is human
and can't be perfect.

Again, you seem to have a different understanding of the English language than myself. Perhaps this is due to it not being your native tongue, or a sad reflection of the quality of the educational institution you attended. Regardless, I strongly advise you to invest in a dictionary.

"push a button" does not require perfection. All that it requires is that you - being one of the illustrious "beta testers", push a button. All the foreknowledge it requires is that you read Elliot's change notes, and be so inspired as to actually check if it's working. Is that so complex?

Let's be perfectly clear - I do not fault Elliot in this. He should be spending his time writing the code. This is a fault of QA/beta-testers for never - not once - checking whether or not an advertised new feature is actually functioning.
Please feel free to propose a methodology on how this, or any
other complex game, can be made bug-free.
When you do, forward it to Elliot, Electronic Arts, Ubisoft, and all the others (especially the makers of the X3 series).

You clearly have never written a line of code in your life. No software (beyond "hello world") is perfect.

I do not ask for perfection. I merely ask that those who supposedly test the software - to in a matter of fact, test it.

I'll avoid commenting on X3 - as clearly it's an attempt to goad me into an argument concerning the release of pathetically sub-standard products on the market.
Forgive me for not wasting my time in reading any reply from you, I must continue my testing {i.e. Pressing the green button now}.

This is clearly too complex an issue for you to address (ie: pushing buttons), so your input is neither desired nor productive. I'll leave you to your testing of 1.7.0.13 - and I shall endeavour to find time to... um... test the same version that you're testing...

In the words of the bard, "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark".
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ― Christopher Hitchens
Dracus
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RE: 1.7.0.13 - enforce colonization range limits

Post by Dracus »

I notice that if you find a colony ship you can use it to get a planet outside the forced limit also. Just and FYI to add to the report.
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RE: 1.7.0.13 - enforce colonization range limits

Post by ehsumrell1 »

Hello Kayoz;
Although I chose to respond to your rant concerning your delusions of how perfect
you are over most (I will respect your opinion that much only), I'm not going to dignify answering ALL of your opinions and reflections concerning your views about me or any of the other beta testers. I haven't the time or need to indulge in a flame war with you. I'll just go back to testing and playing Distant Worlds. You see, my goal is to assist Elliot and the crew in accomplishing the goal of making this game one of the best of its genre. not to act like I deserve to sit at the right hand of some deity. I pity someone as obnoxious as you.

Note the word obnoxious. Does your dictionary give you a full understanding of
the meaning of that word?
Shields are useless in "The Briar Patch"...
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Kayoz
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RE: 1.7.0.13 - enforce colonization range limits

Post by Kayoz »

ORIGINAL: ehsumrell1

I'm not going to dignify answering ALL of your opinions and reflections concerning your views about me or any of the other beta testers.

Interesting.

So your idea of your duty on the forums (as a so-called beta-tester) are:
1. Ignore people whose comments you disagree with. And/or...
2. Make personal attacks on those posters you disagree with.
3. Completely ignore the substance of the comments - instead of discussing the issues outlined, resort to #2 above and/or ranting on about how complex and demanding it is that you push a button.
4. Claim superior knowledge and authority as a "beta-tester", despite the fact that it is a title that can be taken up by anyone who downloads a beta patch.

You seem to have problems with big words, so here's a phrase that uses small ones - "duty of care". Do you honestly think you've fulfilled your duty of care (as a so-called beta-tester) by starting a flame-war? You have not provided any information on how to resolve the issue; instead you have launched into personal attacks and ignored the confirmed defect.

In your own words, it's an onerous task to push a button. Far too complex and demanding for your capabilities. I think that speaks volumes.

Have fun testing 1.7.0.13 - and take pride in your achievement of managing to download the file. Considering the challenge faced by you in the task of pushing a button, the technical challenge of downloading a file should be considered a tour de force of your abilities.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ― Christopher Hitchens
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Igard
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RE: 1.7.0.13 - enforce colonization range limits

Post by Igard »

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

Do you honestly think you've fulfilled your duty of care (as a so-called beta-tester) by starting a flame-war?

Actually I think you started it in the original post when you said, 'It would be appreciated if the so-called beta-testers actually tested the game.' You really expect this to be well received?

You must know that beta-testers read these forums. Beta-testers are a group of volunteers (not selected). They should not be a target for your insults (and it was an insult). They don't get paid. It's their free time they choose to spend and I'm sure they find many bugs before each patch is released.

If you don't like the bugs, don't play the betas.

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Kayoz
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RE: 1.7.0.13 - enforce colonization range limits

Post by Kayoz »

ORIGINAL: Igard

You must know that beta-testers read these forums. Beta-testers are a group of volunteers (not selected). They should not be a target for your insults (and it was an insult). They don't get paid. It's their free time they choose to spend and I'm sure they find many bugs before each patch is released.

You seem to know more about the so-called beta-testers than the above.

So what's the difference between a so-called beta-tester and anyone who downloads a beta patch? Given the bizarre responses above, then I'm a beta-tester. So if it's an insult as you allege, it's directed at myself - yes?

I'm very much in confusion as to the "I'm a beta-tester" comment - it implies some sort of authority and insider access to builds. But such seems not to be the case.
ORIGINAL: Igard
If you don't like the bugs, don't play the betas.

The official releases are bug-free?
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ― Christopher Hitchens
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Data
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RE: 1.7.0.13 - enforce colonization range limits

Post by Data »

I guess it's my turn now, though I'm not sure you want to get the point anyway. I unblocked you only because I saw you managed to annoy both Ed and Igard...a rare feet. The only one capable of this before was...wait, still you. Remember that Erik already warned you, don't think he has a short memory.
Back to the green button now.
...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....
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Kayoz
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RE: 1.7.0.13 - enforce colonization range limits

Post by Kayoz »

ORIGINAL: Data

I guess it's my turn now, though I'm not sure you want to get the point anyway. I unblocked you only because I saw you managed to annoy both Ed and Igard...a rare feet. The only one capable of this before was...wait, still you. Remember that Erik already warned you, don't think he has a short memory.
Back to the green button now.

You are referring to my less than friendly comments on one of your buddies who proselytizing? Do your homework. Go back to the thread and check to see who indeed started the religious bollocks before you complain about my behaviour. Erik didn't bother to check who started proselytizing. He just took your complaints at face value, an abuse of the trust he seems to give you. But with an eternally full PM box and no email listed, it's hardly possible to offer a retort, is it?

While you might dislike this comment, the issue was handled with a great lack of tact by emwhatever. There is too much posturing from so-called beta-testers on the forum, by people who claim insider knowledge and claim a position of authority in their postings. For all the posturing; for all their claims of authority and knowledge, the real actual truth seems to be that anyone who downloads a beta patch can claim that title. Which brings up the messy question of whether or not it's allowable for me to insult myself... From what I've heard, I'm a "beta-tester".

Silly me. I thought there was a group that QA'ed the releases before they were posted for general download. It seems that there is no such group, so there's no way I can cause offense to a group that does not exist. If you're offended, it's because you want to be offended - you'll find offense in many things in life if that's what you want.

And interestingly enough - the sum total response on the bug has been:

1. It was not confirmed - indeed, not one of you whingers even checked it. (Dracus - not one of you lot, was the only one to even bother checking. Why is it that not one of you so-called beta-testers even confirmed the defect? So involved in the invective of edwhatever to criticism, that you've managed to completely ignore the issue that started it all.)
2. Excuses were made due to the complexity of pushing a button.
3. not one mea culpa - the sum total of response from you and your lot are excuses and personal attacks. Why is it so hard to accept you've made a mistake? Why do you feel a need to attack those that question the quality of what you (though the use of "you" is much in question) did?
4. edwhatever launched into personal attacks directed specifically at me, when I made a questionable comment on a group that - as it turns out - is comprised of whomever chooses to claim membership. You complain about MY behaviour, when his is clearly more egregious?

Make what excuses you want, and try to distract people however you wish. The fact remains: pushing a button is apparently too complex a task for beta-testers (emwhatever's words).

At the end of the day - yes, banning people from the forums is one way to silence criticism. See how well it works?

Note:
I love the "make an inflammatory comment then hit the ignore button" espoused by Data, and eddie. Very effective way to resolve issues - flame and run away. Fantastic!
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ― Christopher Hitchens
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Kayoz
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RE: 1.7.0.13 - enforce colonization range limits

Post by Kayoz »

A clever man would respond to my initial post - "you're using a beta, that makes you a beta tester. Well done, you've tested it."

Data and Ehrmwhatever's responses speak for themselves.

Note:
I assume Data is referring to ehsumrell1, whom he refers to as "Ed". This is a wild assumption, however, as there is no "d" in "ehsumrell1".
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ― Christopher Hitchens
Dracus
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RE: 1.7.0.13 - enforce colonization range limits

Post by Dracus »

guess I picked the wrong place to post a bug report. I will re-post somewhere else.
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Kayoz
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RE: 1.7.0.13 - enforce colonization range limits

Post by Kayoz »

ORIGINAL: Dracus

guess I picked the wrong place to post a bug report. I will re-post somewhere else.

Well said.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ― Christopher Hitchens
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RE: 1.7.0.13 - enforce colonization range limits

Post by aiongold »

No big deal I have a coup
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RE: 1.7.0.13 - enforce colonization range limits

Post by Vincenzo_Beretta »

ORIGINAL: Igard
Actually I think you started it in the original post when you said, 'It would be appreciated if the so-called beta-testers actually tested the game.' You really expect this to be well received?

For what is worth, it is by me.
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Kayoz
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RE: 1.7.0.13 - enforce colonization range limits

Post by Kayoz »

ORIGINAL: Vincenzo Beretta

For what is worth, it is by me.

Oh, why not? Join the crowd. Seems everyone's claiming the "beta tester" title. Why not someone who's just picked up the game? You have as much claim to the title as ehsumrell1.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ― Christopher Hitchens
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ehsumrell1
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RE: 1.7.0.13 - enforce colonization range limits

Post by ehsumrell1 »

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

ORIGINAL: Vincenzo Beretta

For what is worth, it is by me.

Oh, why not? Join the crowd. Seems everyone's claiming the "beta tester" title. Why not someone who's just picked up the game? You have as much claim to the title as ehsumrell1.
Unbelievable Kayoz, is his name in the game credits? Is yours? Give it a rest man, You give great
comments and information on one hand and the next minute go flaming. Ask Erik and Elliot directly
to comment on my contributions to them and the game as a beta test team member if you dare.

I'm hoping this post will not start another wild ranting from you. I just wanted to respond since
you mentioned me sarcastically in your response to Vincent. Let it go.
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Tophat1815
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RE: 1.7.0.13 - enforce colonization range limits

Post by Tophat1815 »

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

Problem:
Range is not enforced - as the 1.7.0.12 release notes claim. Colonies out of range, w. red lettering in the expansion planner, are still capable of being colonized - either manually, or w. expansion planner.

AI seems to restrict its colonization to the range limit. The player can by mistake, or design, ignore the limit. Is this how it's SUPPOSED to work? If so, then a more detailed explanation is needed. For example, does the limit apply exclusively to establishing new colonies? Does it apply to sending your colonists to independent colonies? How about invasion forces - in one sense, that's colonization - albeit in force.

File demonstrating issue:
ColonizationRange-20120403.dwg

Note:
It would be appreciated if the so-called beta-testers actually tested the game. As a new feature in 1.7.0.12, this should have been exercised. However, that seems not to be the case.


Hmmm,I will check this out as well.

Your playing the beta 1.7.0.13 so good catch and welcome to the ranks of the "so called beta testers".

At this time may i ask if you have detected any other bugs in this game version? I'm not being sarcastic I'm actually curious as none of us want preventable bugs in the game.
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Kayoz
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RE: 1.7.0.13 - enforce colonization range limits

Post by Kayoz »

ORIGINAL: ehsumrell1

...and the next minute go flaming.

Pointing out the inconsistencies and absurdities in your statements isn't "flaming".
ORIGINAL: ehsumrell1
Ask Erik and Elliot directly

"The lady doth protest too much". Similar observations can be made regarding your incessant harping on about your inclusion in the credits list.

I suppose it's pretty exciting to be on the pony for the first time. But having ridden the software development pony for the better part of 2 decades, I'm far from impressed with a name on it, or conversely inclined by one's absence.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ― Christopher Hitchens
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